Ren'Py Four Elements Trainer [v1.1.2b] [Mity]

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

True, though I did suspect something like this to happen anyways: When it pours, it rains.

Besides, not like they aren't fair to their Patrons though by promising to send out the version to those that are in the respective tier for the month of may, so anyone who's annoyed is free to cancel their pledge and still receive what they have hoped for. Seems to me like a fair move at the very least.
Also also, I'm happy to see the artist chime into the coding process now to get things rolling regardless, given he's been so far up ahead that he can actually go out of his way to try and speed things up. Hell "it being more risky bugwise" is irrelevant as there's been bugs in nearly every bughunt release so far, some minor, some major.

I'd also like to mention that the coder should not dip into June right now and get back to work. He's supposed to code, not lewd June.

Ok follow me here. The artist claims they're far ahead with the art right, now they're helping the coder with this month's release. If they really wanted to avoid missing the release for this date why would they not help the coder earlier when they made that post a couple days ago unsure of if they'd make it just in time? Why is it that now suddenly they're going to help. Surely if they could help now they could've helped back then and yet they didn't. As usual they do who knows what for most of the month and then when crunch time happens and they miss the release they say something to the effect of "oh we're so sad and upset this happened but I promise we'll do something about it right now to get it out quickly!". They still missed the release of this month and yet they still get paid by patreon for the month, so now they only have to release for last month and get paid for both. It's a pattern.

 

[Pr0man]

Then that's poor project management. 4ET is close to it's end, why not finish this game before working on a completely new one. Chase two hares and catch none after all.

I never understood the concept of working on multiple titles in an alternate pattern to be fair.

Not only do they have something everyone wants right now and are working on that, fighting tooth and nail to get it out in a reasonable time, but also built some interest in their next project by showcasing a decent prototype. Why not let it rest till the first project is done?
The scope of FET increased drastically over its initial conception, so much so that it actually requires the main portion of their attention right now to actually meet deadlines and not lose all the built-up goodwill, not trying to work on something that has been established but needs some serious groundwork in the first place.

 

[naoligopraisso]

True, though I did suspect something like this to happen anyways: When it pours, it rains.

Besides, not like they aren't fair to their Patrons though by promising to send out the version to those that are in the respective tier for the month of may, so anyone who's annoyed is free to cancel their pledge and still receive what they have hoped for. Seems to me like a fair move at the very least.
Also also, I'm happy to see the artist chime into the coding process now to get things rolling regardless, given he's been so far up ahead that he can actually go out of his way to try and speed things up. Hell "it being more risky bugwise" is irrelevant as there's been bugs in nearly every bughunt release so far, some minor, some major.

I'd also like to mention that the coder should not dip into June right now and get back to work. He's supposed to code, not lewd June.

I also suspected from the beginning that it was not going to happen, I have comments from the beginning of this month saying that, but honestly, this is nothing, I prefer that they delay 10 days and bring a good update, than delay 4 months again.

 

[darealman]

It’s just that they delay the release of the game because they are simultaneously working on the new Omnitrixxx project. That is the whole answer.

That's not true, I personally messaged MITY a few weeks ago and he told me that omnitrixxx was just a test to see how another game could possibly work, or something in those lines. They never intended to keep developing the game, but if they were they would do it after they are done with FET.

 

[WOMANpukumaru]

But those other devs don't promise that consistency, read the post that's literally above your own with the artists' update. I called that this would happen. They promise they'll do their best to get it in time for the month and then they fail, make a post saying how bad they feel about it and promise to not let it happen again and try to get it out as soon as possible. This happens literally every time. It's a pattern so that's reason enough to suspect there's more to it than just "oh it's a coincidence, it happens blah blah" no please just shut up and listen. Criticise them for their incompetence. The problem is easily solvable. Nobody is expecting a triple A game. We expect what's promised and they break those promises far to often. His post just now claims he's taking over some of the coding, if he can do it why can't they just use the ridiculous amount of money they earn monthly to hire a new coder to come in and help? They say the issue is always caused by the one coder failing to get it done in time due to burn out, so why haven't they taken the very simple step to fix it? What's their excuse? Stop defending them.

Buddy, you are the one who needs to shut up calm down and listen....or don’t? I didn’t make my post to start some huge argument, and I didn’t even really say anything huge that you need to refute or go on some Holy crusade to take me down. But if you’re going to do that, then at least read what I said?


I’m not defending them...in fact my original post was criticizing them and I even said you could be right? Several times?

The original point I made is to stop making these promises and just stick to more general plans, and stop feeding expectations like this.

Also other devs do make promises. Wtf are you talking about?

 

[montblonk]

Not surprised ill check up on it in a couple of months

 

[ssjgssj]

Another two months ?

 

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

Buddy, you are the one who needs to shut up calm down and listen....or don’t? I didn’t make my post to start some huge argument, and I didn’t even really say anything huge that you need to refute or go on some Holy crusade to take me down. But if you’re going to do that, then at least read what I said?


I’m not defending them...in fact my original post was criticizing them and I even said you could be right? Several times?

The original point I made is to stop making these promises and just stick to more general plans, and stop feeding expectations like this.

Also other devs do make promises. Wtf are you talking about?

I won't apologise because I don't regret what I said, it was aimed at people with a similar belief as you that "It's ok if its a week or two late because it's good". I don't find it all right to consistently delay something you promised within a time frame. If you miss a dead line once or twice that's fine. But when you come back from a 4 month gap of absolutely no content and then continue to delay and skip months from that point on is where I have the problem. I could've phrased it better however but I'm frustrated by how passive people seem to be especially when this problem has existed for over a year. F95 is flooded with projects that never make it past 0.1 so people don't care for those, the other projects I can think of that I would rank better than 4ET is Taffy Tales and maybe even Summertime Saga and they're at least honest about expectations to an extent. It takes a while for them but they never promise a monthly release and they don't string people along with update posts promising they're doing their best to get it out in time.

MITY's Patreon earns something like 20k a month, they're missing this months release but they still get paid for this month. Then they'll release this months update in June and still get paid for June while "June's update" comes out in July. Now imagine if I went to work, didn't do anything for a month, still got paid and then did that month's work the next month.

 

[darkgunner079]

The people that tell MITY things like "take as long as you need" are giving them a blank check to fuck around as much as they want just as long as they occasionally post a half assed sob story/apology and yet another promise to do better

 

[darealman]

The people that tell MITY things like "take as long as you need" are giving them a blank check to fuck around as much as they want just as long as they occasionally post a half assed sob story/apology and yet another promise to do better

It's their money and they choose to whatever they want with it, there's not a single comment on MITY's latest post about someone being disappointed. How come the ones that pay don't care about delays and the ones who pirate the game care the most? Mindblowing to me.

 

[reaper-kun]

The people that tell MITY things like "take as long as you need" are giving them a blank check to fuck around as much as they want just as long as they occasionally post a half assed sob story/apology and yet another promise to do better

Agreed. A have strong disappointment for guys who support milking by that words. They pretend to looking cool but in fact they just support creator's laziness and greed.

 

[WOMANpukumaru]

I won't apologise because I don't regret what I said, it was aimed at people with a similar belief as you that "It's ok if its a week or two late because it's good". I don't find it all right to consistently delay something you promised within a time frame. If you miss a dead line once or twice that's fine. But when you come back from a 4 month gap of absolutely no content and then continue to delay and skip months from that point on is where I have the problem. I could've phrased it better however but I'm frustrated by how passive people seem to be especially when this problem has existed for over a year. F95 is flooded with projects that never make it past 0.1 so people don't care for those, the other projects I can think of that I would rank better than 4ET is Taffy Tales and maybe even Summertime Saga and they're at least honest about expectations to an extent. It takes a while for them but they never promise a monthly release and they don't string people along with update posts promising they're doing their best to get it out in time.

MITY's Patreon earns something like 20k a month, they're missing this months release but they still get paid for this month. Then they'll release this months update in June and still get paid for June while "June's update" comes out in July. Now imagine if I went to work, didn't do anything for a month, still got paid and then did that month's work the next month.

Now you’re kinda repeating my points about not making promises like this. I don’t know why you’re argujng with me

 

[darkgunner079]

It's their money and they choose to whatever they want with it, there's not a single comment on MITY's latest post about someone being disappointed. How come the ones that pay don't care about delays and the ones who pirate the game care the most? Mindblowing to me.

I'm a patron of theirs, actually (probably pledging more than you, but thats beside the point). Most of the people that comment on their patron will tell them to take all the time they need no matter what they said, just short of "We aren't going to work on the game anymore but we still want your money"

You're absolutely right that people can do with their money as they please, just as people are free to criticize what is an easily observable pattern of delays and empty excuses.

This game is arguably one of the best of its kind and that's let them build up quite a bit of good faith with fans of the game but over the past year or so its become clear that, for one reason or another they've realized that they can get away with pretty much anything because people like this game so much that they're much more lenient than perhaps they should be. And that kind of good faith can be easily exploited so long as they make a post alluding to some vague emotional/mental issues and "we're sorry and we'll do better in the future" posts.

I want to continue to support this game but I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that almost every build nowadays is delayed and the reasons given indicate a problem that they just aren't fixing

 

[IdarksoulsI]

I won't apologise because I don't regret what I said, it was aimed at people with a similar belief as you that "It's ok if its a week or two late because it's good". I don't find it all right to consistently delay something you promised within a time frame. If you miss a dead line once or twice that's fine. But when you come back from a 4 month gap of absolutely no content and then continue to delay and skip months from that point on is where I have the problem.

There never was a 4 month gap of absolutely no content.

I could've phrased it better however but I'm frustrated by how passive people seem to be especially when this problem has existed for over a year. F95 is flooded with projects that never make it past 0.1 so people don't care for those, the other projects I can think of that I would rank better than 4ET is Taffy Tales and maybe even Summertime Saga and they're at least honest about expectations to an extent. It takes a while for them but they never promise a monthly release...

Show me a quote where they promise a certain release date.

... and they don't string people along with update posts promising they're doing their best to get it out in time.

So you want them to stay silent if something has changed?

MITY's Patreon earns something like 20k a month, they're missing this months release but they still get paid for this month. Then they'll release this months update in June and still get paid for June while "June's update" comes out in July. Now imagine if I went to work, didn't do anything for a month, still got paid and then did that month's work the next month.

They never done 'nothing'.

Frankly, reading your post I can only shake my head in disbelieve about how far off from the actual situation you are. It seems you know nothing about how they develop the game, how they communicate with their supporters and how much they work every month to deliver something we all can enjoy.

The last part of a book always took longer, the scenes got longer, the animations better. It's inevitable developing times will grow. Every person that thinks they could do better and faster I invite to do so.

 

[WOMANpukumaru]

Okay. I may have started a shit storm unintentionally. Or maybe I walked into an already ongoing fire? Either way I apoarently need to exit.

 

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

There never was a 4 month gap of absolutely no content.

Show me a quote where they promise a certain release date.

So you want them to stay silent if something has changed?

They never done 'nothing'.

Frankly, reading your post I can only shake my head in disbelieve about how far off from the actual situation you are. It seems you know nothing about how they develop the game, how they communicate with their supporters and how much they work every month to deliver something we all can enjoy.

The last part of a book always took longer, the scenes got longer, the animations better. It's inevitable developing times will grow. Every person that thinks they could do better and faster I invite to do so.

Are you really going to tell me there was no huge gap with no content when I was one of the many people waiting through it. If not four months it was a few days short of it but I won't be lied to.

As for the promises, if they promised nothing why are they making a huge deal about being disappointed about not making this months release? Why are they promising all this stuff for their patrons like the new build in their DMs? Obviously they had gotten everyones expectations that there would be a release this month and that's the promise.

You'll go to the end of the earth's to defend them but refuse to hear the other side out. Instead of making posts that are nothing more than weak excuses I expect to see results from the work they promise they're putting into the game. Yet when it comes time to release they delay it. So, what exactly are they doing? What happens from the last release to the newest one? We've already seen a delay in quality from the peak of their releases to now. You're lying to yourself and everybody else around if you say there isn't something going on here with the releases.

Shake your head all you want I don't care what you say about me or claim to know about me. I'll continue to call out this nonsense I'm witnessing and I'll continue to tell people that they're right to be outraged by constantly being lied to.

 

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

Okay. I may have started a shit storm unintentionally. Or maybe I walked into an already ongoing fire? Either way I apoarently need to exit.

Nothing is unintentional in this world. No matter how small the action it'll always have consequences.

 

[baneini]

Nazis lose ww2 -> European companies facilities are destroyed leaving american puritans to become the driver of global economy. US proliferates anti-porn laws trough payment processors that prevent flourishing of porn game publishers who could fund dev studios to make a game that is released feature complete.
Instead devs survive only on crowd funded, donation based service like patreon which incentives monthly payments to gain access and influence on ongoing unfinished game projects.

Normally the publisher would manage risk, demand creative control, oversee the developers to make sure they fulfill their obligations to make their money back but in the crowdfunded donation model there no such option. The donation money is just that, money that was donated and the consumers have no rights to anything and the receiver of the donation has zero obligations.
The consumers who don't realize they're entitled to nothing then complain about their imaginary entitlements not being met and since this state is unchanging they'll repeatedly make exactly same arguments every time this happens.

What they're actually saying is they wanted Hitler to win.

 

[RebelliousKnightMordred]

Nazis lose ww2 -> European companies facilities are destroyed leaving american puritans to become the driver of global economy. US proliferates anti-porn laws trough payment processors that prevent flourishing of porn game publishers who could fund dev studios to make a game that is released feature complete.
Instead devs survive only on crowd funded, donation based service like patreon which incentives monthly payments to gain access and influence on ongoing unfinished game projects.

Normally the publisher would manage risk, demand creative control, oversee the developers to make sure they fulfill their obligations to make their money back but in the crowdfunded donation model there no such option. The donation money is just that, money that was donated and the consumers have no rights to anything and the receiver of the donation has zero obligations.
The consumers who don't realize they're entitled to nothing then complain about their imaginary entitlements not being met and since this state is unchanging they'll repeatedly make exactly same arguments every time this happens.

What they're actually saying is they wanted Hitler to win.

I hope to God you're joking and I haven't had any belief in him for well over a decade. A donation would be managed differently on a different website but you do realise how Patreon works right? It's not a site used to give donations to someone you want to help out it's a platform for crowd-funded content. Otherwise there would be no tier system. Each amount of payment has an incentive attached to it that's what people are paying for, not "donating". They're paying for something to be delivered it's why it's a monthly pledge.

 

[reaper-kun]

What they're actually saying is they wanted Hitler to win.

You're really good. Suggest to try yourself in the politics.

Speak seriously, any disappointment will make when creator break release plan and start to milking patrons. As you can see, in 1 - 3 ch. MITY doing well and pull out releases in time. No one will been angry. Since chapter 4 they don't have inspiration or ideas or something... and doing his work in half quality in front of previous chapters. This is reason of wide disappointment of patrons. They just tired and we all can see this. This situation is one part in chain of mistakes and creative crisis.