VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.10 v0.71] [NeonGhosts]

[joaodasdesgracas]

Hey, hey! Thanks for the kind words (and kind review!) -- really appreciate that!

You're welcome, but they are fully deserved!

Plus, I think that writing him as an actual character just makes all the interactions with other characters a lot richer. It's kind of like the difference in playing as.. I dunno, Fido from Grand Theft Auto III, vs Kratos from God of War. You're steering both, but one has a clear perspective and personality, while the other is just an audience surrogate.

Very much agreed. As things goes, this become more and more apparent. Without depth on the protagonist, the relationship will always feel more than a little shallow, as it will be limited to somewhat generic interactions, memories and even fights.

Ditto for the antagonists. So far we've really only seen Jamie, Brent, etc. through the lens of the MC. But, Brent will come back sooner than later, and I'm kind of curious how people take him in that second appearance. Like, he's obviously kind of an image-obsessed dickhead, but in his version of the story, he's absolutely the underdog good guy. He tried to make some money, failed miserably, lost his girlfriend to a rich asshole, and was left with nothing. In another game, he'd be the guy scheming to get back all the things he lost. But, he's in Guy's story, and that automatically casts him into an adversarial role.

Well, I will disagree partly. I can see what you're talking about and agree how changing PoVs can showcase things we ignored or weren't shown to add complexity, but:

1- Brent - He essentially tried to prostitute his GF, not once, not twice, but thrice in a month, and then essentially scamming her (this one can actually be changed depending on how things are seen from another perspective on why he did this). Finally, there are the unhinged messages. Were you trying to make him less blatantly evil, you should've, imo, toned down

2- Jamie's scene was really interesting as I said, but again, he's so unapologetically creepy, and then showing off his naked GF even seems a bit inconsistent with how possessive he is, that just seemed to be there to show how disgusting he is. Plus the thinly veiled racism.

3- Unknown Rich Creep can actually be humanized in an interesting way - misunderstood creepy selfdeclared artistic genius with genuine love and admiration for Nicki that's unhealthy for him but can also be 'misunderstood' by her or something, so if he does play a role later on, as I think he will, I'm interested on the take you willl go for.

 

[Karana]

Ditto for the antagonists. So far we've really only seen Jamie, Brent, etc. through the lens of the MC. But, Brent will come back sooner than later, and I'm kind of curious how people take him in that second appearance. Like, he's obviously kind of an image-obsessed dickhead, but in his version of the story, he's absolutely the underdog good guy. He tried to make some money, failed miserably, lost his girlfriend to a rich asshole, and was left with nothing. In another game, he'd be the guy scheming to get back all the things he lost. But, he's in Guy's story, and that automatically casts him into an adversarial role.

For me, personally, Brent has been too criminally abusive for there to be any real chance of redemption. He's permanently stuck in the irredeemable shitheel bucket for me. Taking out an $80K loan from a dodgy loanshark via fraud and forcing your partner to be on the hook for all of it isn't small potatoes. Unless Nicki has been lying through her teeth about what went down, and that would be very interesting narratively, then Brent doesn't deserve a shred of sympathy or regard. Brent is just... next level dogshit.

Look at Carolina and Madison as comparisons, Carolina has her deadbeat ex who apparently couldn't give a damn about their daughter, Madison's husband engaged in a criminal enterprise that risked the entire family's livelihoods and wellbeing. They're both downright terrible partners but it pales in comparison to Brent. Brent made a series of terrible life choices that should have cost him dearly if he hadn't used Nicki as a human shield to bear the brunt of his consequences every time.

tl;dr: Fuck Brent. All my homies hate Brent.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

For me, personally, Brent has been too criminally abusive for there to be any real chance of redemption. He's permanently stuck in the irredeemable shitheel bucket for me. Taking out an $80K loan from a dodgy loanshark via fraud and forcing your partner to be on the hook for all of it isn't small potatoes. Unless Nicki has been lying through her teeth about what went down, and that would be very interesting narratively, then Brent doesn't deserve a shred of sympathy or regard. Brent is just... next level dogshit.

Look at Carolina and Madison as comparisons, Carolina has her deadbeat ex who apparently couldn't give a damn about their daughter, Madison's husband engaged in a criminal enterprise that risked the entire family's livelihoods and wellbeing. They're both downright terrible partners but it pales in comparison to Brent. Brent made a series of terrible life choices that should have cost him dearly if he hadn't used Nicki as a human shield to bear the brunt of his consequences every time.

tl;dr: Fuck Brent. All my homies hate Brent.

You have to remember, a lot of these guys are all about giving people a second chance. Me? I'd rather watch these fucktards burn and toast marshmellows over them.

 

[Karana]

Jamie's scene was really interesting as I said, but again, he's so unapologetically creepy, and then showing off his naked GF even seems a bit inconsistent with how possessive he is, that just seemed to be there to show how disgusting he is. Plus the thinly veiled racism.

Jamie goes beyond being creepy. Like... He's straight up a rapist? In the blowjob videos with both Britt and Gabby they withdraw consent and he just keeps on going. It's telling that his MO is the same in both instances. Physically restrain the girl, shove his dick in her mouth, if she objects, keep going and feign innocence. This isn't teenage hijinks or being a bit creepy. It's sexual predation. This is premeditated rape.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

I like to think that the things that motivate Good Guy to do good and help others, are the same things that make Bad Guy cruel. It's all about how he's processed the things that've happened to him up until now, either growing from it, or becoming emotionally stunted.

Very interesting, I wondered the same thing about your character Nice to know it isn't just my own head canon. Now, of course, the fun part for me is to see where you ultimately take everyone in your story. I'm very thrilled to find out if any of my hunches are even close to your plans. That's another good decision on how you've written guy, actually. As the player, you can actually attempt to analyze or anticipate his motivations and behavior in any given instance or even for the entire story. Plenty of VNs where you can't do that because the MC is too much of a blank slate with actions that can't be traced back to any past experience or personality aspect or anything of the sort. Blank slate doesn't have to be bad, ofc, it has its own pros, but you've definitely been convincing me with the whole pre-planned and established route.

 

[Master of Puppets]

Jamie goes beyond being creepy. Like... He's straight up a rapist? In the blowjob videos with both Britt and Gabby they withdraw consent and he just keeps on going. It's telling that his MO is the same in both instances. Physically restrain the girl, shove his dick in her mouth, if she objects, keep going and feign innocence. This isn't teenage hijinks or being a bit creepy. It's sexual predation. This is premeditated rape.

Best case scenario he's too young and stupid to know that that isn't how BDSM is supposed to work, but he doesn't get any of that benefit of the doubt considering the other shit that he gets up to.

 

[ImperialD]

Jamie goes beyond being creepy. Like... He's straight up a rapist? In the blowjob videos with both Britt and Gabby they withdraw consent and he just keeps on going. It's telling that his MO is the same in both instances. Physically restrain the girl, shove his dick in her mouth, if she objects, keep going and feign innocence. This isn't teenage hijinks or being a bit creepy. It's sexual predation. This is premeditated rape.

jamie is what we used to call freaky freak ... racist/rapist you name it ... and yeah he belongs behind bars ... so he can get a feel of what he loves doing .. and i do mean a real feel

 

[Joshy92]

It's ironic or maybe it isn't lol
I don't want to share my chosen girl in this game even with another girl
It would make me too angry

And yet my favourite visual novel girl of all time is in a loving relationship with another girl and the mc (A throuple)
And I never want that throuple to break up.
It's also my favourite relationship storyline in any game ever

So make of that what you will
Sometimes I confuse myself.

 

[Ottoeight]

I think we urgently need an update, because the blabbering has really gone mad lately.

 

[NewTricks]

I think we urgently need an update, because the blabbering has really gone mad lately.

While an update is always welcome I think it can be said that most of us are really here for the blabbering and the madness.

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

Ditto for the antagonists. So far we've really only seen Jamie, Brent, etc. through the lens of the MC. But, Brent will come back sooner than later, and I'm kind of curious how people take him in that second appearance. Like, he's obviously kind of an image-obsessed dickhead, but in his version of the story, he's absolutely the underdog good guy. He tried to make some money, failed miserably, lost his girlfriend to a rich asshole, and was left with nothing. In another game, he'd be the guy scheming to get back all the things he lost. But, he's in Guy's story, and that automatically casts him into an adversarial role.

Yeah nah, Brent is unsalvageable. So does Jamie. The only ones who might me misunderstood are Madison's husband, Carolina's ex, and the rich guy taking pictures of Nicki.

Only time will tell.

 

[Machete]

2- Jamie's scene was really interesting as I said, but again, he's so unapologetically creepy, and then showing off his naked GF even seems a bit inconsistent with how possessive he is, that just seemed to be there to show how disgusting he is. Plus the thinly veiled racism.

Actually i think it works. Jamie is a childish crap who needs a lot of validation. So, he's possessive because he fears the comparison with other men, yet he shows his naked hot GF to his friend to feel approved and admired by his peer. A very weak personality.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

rich guy taking pictures of Nicki.

Not sure about him, he sounded like areal predator.

Carolina's ex

I have a personal vendetta against him. When the option arises I'll give him cement shoes.

Madison's husband

He probably is a drug dealer but what I get between the lines, he did it for the money out of necessity. So he may be good guy on wrong path.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Jamie goes beyond being creepy. Like... He's straight up a rapist? In the blowjob videos with both Britt and Gabby they withdraw consent and he just keeps on going. It's telling that his MO is the same in both instances. Physically restrain the girl, shove his dick in her mouth, if she objects, keep going and feign innocence. This isn't teenage hijinks or being a bit creepy. It's sexual predation. This is premeditated rape.

Got to agree that he is pretty much a rapist as opossed to my good Guy.

He will stay away from any women if i have some say in the matter.

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

2- Jamie's scene was really interesting as I said, but again, he's so unapologetically creepy, and then showing off his naked GF even seems a bit inconsistent with how possessive he is, that just seemed to be there to show how disgusting he is. Plus the thinly veiled racism.

More like he sees his girls as trophies to show off, but absolutely loathes it when someone he perceives as a threat even touches them. It's more common than you might think.

 

[TigerWolfe]

You have to remember, a lot of these guys are all about giving people a second chance. Me? I'd rather watch these fucktards burn and toast marshmellows over them.

in games like life I tend to be significantly more chance giving to women than to men.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

in games like life I tend to be significantly more chance giving to women than to men.

I'm kind of the same. It just depends on what the woman did and if I'm willing to see past it. I'm not really about second chances for anyone, especially males. There have been very few occassions. That's because I don't really see in shades of grey. With guys, it's black or white with me. "Did he fuck up? Yes. Did he mean to fuck up? Maybe not. Can I forgive or forget what he did? No. Conclusion, fuck him."

 

[TRKaiser]

I think we urgently need an update, because the blabbering has really gone mad lately.

This is how you can tell its been awhile between updates on good games...
Once people start seeing theories in everything, in renders and sentences, and reading deep into every stance or everything in the background and the chat starts filling the hole in the shape of the game by just talking about it and everything about it...
Then most likely we are all like...

 

[NeonGhosts]

Actually i think it works. Jamie is a childish crap who needs a lot of validation. So, he's possessive because he fears the comparison with other men, yet he shows his naked hot GF to his friend to feel approved and admired by his peer. A very weak personality.

Yeah, not to explain my own writing tooooo much, but this is a good read on Jamie. I don't know how much will really make it into the game, so I'll just give a brief summary of how I see Jamie's history.

Jamie's early life is spent as a nerdy artistic kid, who's ostracized from the in-group of guys for being soft and weird, and ignored by the girls for lacking any kind of confidence. Being unlucky with girls, he consumes a lot of porn, eventually falling into the darker end of it, with more heavy BDSM and abusive content.

He meets Gabby in their shared art class and slowly opens up, before he finally has the confidence to make a move on her. Surprisingly enough, it works and they begin dating. He begins posting some of his photography of Gabby on his Picogram account, and suddenly has guys complimenting him on his hot girlfriend, and before they know it they're both climbing the social ladder. While Gabby's uncomfortable with it, Jamie quickly becomes addicted to the approval and adulation of his peers. But, the only way to keep it going is to go further and further to impress them. So it begins with lewds of Gabby posted to a private Picogram account, escalating to nudes, and then shared videos -- which grows his follower counts across not only the private account, but his primary one. All the while his relationship with Gabby turns darker as he grows more assertive, and better able to act out the hardcore fetishes he's grown to enjoy in porn.

Around that time, the shine begins to wear off of his girlfriend, and flush with followers and attention for exploiting Gabby, he catches the eye of Brittani. She probably approached him to take some photos of her, a little flirting happened, and then..

But, with Brittani on the hook there's a shorter period of escalation, because he's more comfortable in his routine. He's craving attention, and the dopamine hit that comes with it. So, the honeymoon period is a lot shorter, and the risks he takes are bigger.

One thing I really wanted to explore in FiN is the idea of how someone comes back from doing terrible things, and if they can. It's why there's an option for basically every girl to apologize after you take a dark choice with them. Some will accept it (Nicki) and some won't.

Is Jamie (or Brent) a shithead? Sure, absolutely. Like another posted said above, Jamie lures girls into a situation where their ability to resist is limited, ignores safe words, and then feigns innocence afterwards. And he's escalating.

But, is there a chance for him to learn from his mistakes, or does he get written off entirely? I think it's worth exploring how much grace we're willing to extend people who fuck up. I mean, the whole cast is kind of a mess, full of people who've made mistakes. Some are just less harmful than others.

 

[Ragnar]

Yeah, not to explain my own writing tooooo much, but this is a good read on Jamie. I don't know how much will really make it into the game, so I'll just give a brief summary of how I see Jamie's history.

Jamie's early life is spent as a nerdy artistic kid, who's ostracized from the in-group of guys for being soft and weird, and ignored by the girls for lacking any kind of confidence. Being unlucky with girls, he consumes a lot of porn, eventually falling into the darker end of it, with more heavy BDSM and abusive content.

He meets Gabby in their shared art class and slowly opens up, before he finally has the confidence to make a move on her. Surprisingly enough, it works and they begin dating. He begins posting some of his photography of Gabby on his Picogram account, and suddenly has guys complimenting him on his hot girlfriend, and before they know it they're both climbing the social ladder. While Gabby's uncomfortable with it, Jamie quickly becomes addicted to the approval and adulation of his peers. But, the only way to keep it going is to go further and further to impress them. So it begins with lewds of Gabby posted to a private Picogram account, escalating to nudes, and then shared videos -- which grows his follower counts across not only the private account, but his primary one. All the while his relationship with Gabby turns darker as he grows more assertive, and better able to act out the hardcore fetishes he's grown to enjoy in porn.

Around that time, the shine begins to wear off of his girlfriend, and flush with followers and attention for exploiting Gabby, he catches the eye of Brittani. She probably approached him to take some photos of her, a little flirting happened, and then..

But, with Brittani on the hook there's a shorter period of escalation, because he's more comfortable in his routine. He's craving attention, and the dopamine hit that comes with it. So, the honeymoon period is a lot shorter, and the risks he takes are bigger.

One thing I really wanted to explore in FiN is the idea of how someone comes back from doing terrible things, and if they can. It's why there's an option for basically every girl to apologize after you take a dark choice with them. Some will accept it (Nicki) and some won't.

Is Jamie (or Brent) a shithead? Sure, absolutely. Like another posted said above, Jamie lures girls into a situation where their ability to resist is limited, ignores safe words, and then feigns innocence afterwards. And he's escalating.

But, is there a chance for him to learn from his mistakes, or does he get written off entirely? I think it's worth exploring how much grace we're willing to extend people who fuck up. I mean, the whole cast is kind of a mess, full of people who've made mistakes. Some are just less harmful than others.

How about a chance to beat him up or to sent him to jail? I mean a redemption story can be interesting but sometimes going that far has some serious consequences, like in Ashe's story.