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Thanks, Joshy! I wish I’d have had more time to really expand that conversation, buuut the main thing I wanted was to get to that ending. >_>

As for it being a full game.. One idea I’ve had for my post-FiN life is to revive The Student Loan as a 5-6 episode game, with similar themes. It’d be kind of a cat and mouse story, with Riley and her Professor interacting anonymously through her OnlyFans account, and their relationship developing until it culminated in their meeting. I need to give more thought to it, but I think it’d be a lot of fun. After FiN wraps up, I’ll be ready to do something a bit more finite, with a single love interest. :’D
I'm conflicted I don't like force love interest but I love monogamy

if you do decide to make this game will it still have choices or

like how to deal with the challenges your relationship will come with so you can end up together
 

NeonGhosts

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 20, 2019
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I'm conflicted I don't like force love interest but I love monogamy

if you do decide to make this game will it still have choices or

like how to deal with the challenges your relationship will come with so you can end up together
I really only have the bare bones of the idea right now, but I can't imagine making a game without significant choices. Likely, it'd be kind of the binary between pursuing love, or a dark romance. The latter wouldn't really be comparable to the 'dark path' stuff of FiN, but more like some of the modern dark romance novels, with heavy themes of dominance, pushing limits, etc. I recently played some games that only had a single love interest, and it just got me thinking about the format, and how it'd be kind of perfect for a short-form game.

FiN is kind of a different beast, because the open nature of it is the selling point. So, I'm happy to wander down all those less-traveled roads like the friendship paths, or the light corruption ones. It's meant to feel like a big world, full of choices -- and in a world of choices, it makes sense to let players make the choice between the characters they want to pursue, and how to pursue them.

But, in a game where the entire story is you cyber-stalking your student before revealing yourself, I don't see the value in going, "And over here.. A different student! Or the guidance counselor! Or your neighbor!" I'd go so far as to say that a lot of games that start out focusing on a small cast, only to venture outside it because they want to draw out the story, tend to do a disservice to their core concept.

As always though, my whims are subject to change. I have no idea how I'll feel, by the time FiN wraps up.
 
Sep 3, 2020
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I really only have the bare bones of the idea right now, but I can't imagine making a game without significant choices. Likely, it'd be kind of the binary between pursuing love, or a dark romance. The latter wouldn't really be comparable to the 'dark path' stuff of FiN, but more like some of the modern dark romance novels, with heavy themes of dominance, pushing limits, etc. I recently played some games that only had a single love interest, and it just got me thinking about the format, and how it'd be kind of perfect for a short-form game.

FiN is kind of a different beast, because the open nature of it is the selling point. So, I'm happy to wander down all those less-traveled roads like the friendship paths, or the light corruption ones. It's meant to feel like a big world, full of choices -- and in a world of choices, it makes sense to let players make the choice between the characters they want to pursue, and how to pursue them.

But, in a game where the entire story is you cyber-stalking your student before revealing yourself, I don't see the value in going, "And over here.. A different student! Or the guidance counselor! Or your neighbor!" I'd go so far as to say that a lot of games that start out focusing on a small cast, only to venture outside it because they want to draw out the story, tend to do a disservice to their core concept.

As always though, my whims are subject to change. I have no idea how I'll feel, by the time FiN wraps up.
I see thank you for taking the time to answer my questions brother:)
 

RC-1138 Boss

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Apr 26, 2017
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Hey, folks! I've posted a new game, free for everyone in celebration of Valentine's Day.



View attachment 4551936

Happy Valentine's Day to all you lovely folks who have supported and encouraged me -- and to the haters, you only make me strongerrrrrr!

;D
Just played the update. Very interesting.

Holly shit. :oops:
This started sad with how she looked tired but then it took a very grimm turn by the ending. So this seems to be a big sex trafficking and blackmailing ring from the look of things. Emilly is clearly being coerced into doing those sex cams and into try to make the people who watch reveal their faces.

Also there are some not so subtle implications that she lives there as a prisioner.


Damn Guy better hire Alex as bodyguard. Think he will need it to face off against those criminals.
 

Joshy92

Message Maven
Mar 25, 2021
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You guys know I named my online persona in that story, Joshy92. And damn, look at this option
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I chose the top option, BTW.

This felt like how the idea of dates with the girls in the main game could go. A few options in a largely self-contained story.
 
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PHIL101-YYouPPHard

Active Member
Jan 11, 2022
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I'd go so far as to say that a lot of games that start out focusing on a small cast, only to venture outside it because they want to draw out the story, tend to do a disservice to their core concept.
Queue the goobers who said you did this to FiN :p

Me personally, I've never played a game with just 1 LI because I guess the concept never appealed to me. But, maybe I've been limiting myself? I think I also always expect an underwhelming story, so I figure 'why limit myself to 1 disappointing LI that wastes my time with infinite padding when I can have 10!'

I always felt like the magic number is 3; 3 is small enough to keep the story from being too big, but also large enough to give more LI choice and interesting interactions between the various girls.

But I could change that thinking for a writer I actually trust :)
 
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Joshy92

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Queue the goobers who said you did this to FiN :p

Me personally, I've never played a game with just 1 LI because I guess the concept never appealed to me. But, maybe I've been limiting myself? I think I also always expect an underwhelming story, so I figure 'why limit myself to 1 disappointing LI that wastes my time with infinite padding when I can have 10!'

I always felt like the magic number is 3; 3 is small enough to keep the story from being too big, but also large enough to give more LI choice and interesting interactions between the various girls.

But I could change that thinking for a writer I actually trust :)
Single LI games are some of the rarest games on here I think I've only played one of them. Neon could easily pull it off though.
 

Pixillin'

Active Member
Oct 8, 2024
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I would love one personally I love single LI games not everyone's cup of tea but to me I like having such a focus on one charcter
I prefer just one Li but there aren't many. There are several games where you start out with a Li and then there are other options if you don't like her. But, IMO, the one primary/suggested Li is a great way to start a story-focused AVN. You get that part out of the way, you can have lewds on day 1 without it feeling forced or rushed, and then you can get on with the story and let other possible Li's and opportunities happen when it feels organic to the story.
 
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PHIL101-YYouPPHard

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Jan 11, 2022
993
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Single LI games are some of the rarest games on here I think I've only played one of them. Neon could easily pull it off though.
I agree, he could definitely pull it off. If I'm being honest, though, I do prefer games with more LIs, amazing writer or no. But that said, I'd love to give it a shot if/when it becomes a thing.

And yeah, I never see them either. I guess it's considered a bigger risk for game devs because, well, the audience is guys and guys, if you're going to let them live a fantasy, are of course always going to choose more LIs! But also because if someone doesn't like that one LI, the game is literally over for them; all eggs in one basket and such. Devs financial prospects for these small VNs are probably really limited if I had to guess.

But on the flip side, it could be so, so much more intimate and like.. a character study or whatever, with just one LI. It's interesting to think about. If I were gonna make my first VN, I feel like starting small might be a good move, lots of practice and there's a bigger incentive to give more depth to your LIs, something so many VNs are sadly lacking. Plus, making choices matter isn't as big of a workload. I mean, if I had to choose between a VN with 10 LIs but not very interesting to play versus a VN with only 1 LI but a story and characters I actually give a shit about, it's obviously the latter 100%.
 
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Joshy92

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Mar 25, 2021
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I agree, he could definitely pull it off. If I'm being honest, though, I do prefer games with more LIs, amazing writer or no. But that said, I'd love to give it a shot if/when it becomes a thing.

And yeah, I never see them either. I guess it's considered a bigger risk for game devs because, well, the audience is guys and guys, if you're going to let them live a fantasy, are of course always going to choose more LIs! But also because if someone doesn't like that one LI, the game is literally over for them; all eggs in one basket and such. Devs financial prospects for these small VNs are probably really limited if I had to guess.

But on the flip side, it could be so, so much more intimate and like.. a character study or whatever, with just one LI. It's interesting to think about. If I were gonna make my first VN, I feel like starting small might be a good move, lots of practice and there's a bigger incentive to give more depth to your LIs, something so many VNs are sadly lacking. Plus, making choices matter isn't as big of a workload. I mean, if I had to choose between a VN with 10 LIs but not very interesting to play versus a VN with only 1 LI but a story and characters I actually give a shit about, it's obviously the latter 100%.
I like the idea because I'm a Riley simp lol

She was so hot, even more so than most of the LI in this IMO.
 
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Dessolos

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Jul 25, 2017
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I agree, he could definitely pull it off. If I'm being honest, though, I do prefer games with more LIs, amazing writer or no. But that said, I'd love to give it a shot if/when it becomes a thing.

And yeah, I never see them either. I guess it's considered a bigger risk for game devs because, well, the audience is guys and guys, if you're going to let them live a fantasy, are of course always going to choose more LIs! But also because if someone doesn't like that one LI, the game is literally over for them; all eggs in one basket and such. Devs financial prospects for these small VNs are probably really limited if I had to guess.

But on the flip side, it could be so, so much more intimate and like.. a character study or whatever, with just one LI. It's interesting to think about. If I were gonna make my first VN, I feel like starting small might be a good move, lots of practice and there's a bigger incentive to give more depth to your LIs, something so many VNs are sadly lacking. Plus, making choices matter isn't as big of a workload. I mean, if I had to choose between a VN with 10 LIs but not very interesting to play versus a VN with only 1 LI but a story and characters I actually give a shit about, it's obviously the latter 100%.
There is 1 I play that has a single LI however the question is does it count. Cause technically there is only 1 main LI and all the side girls in later updates added the option to be part of a throuple and I think even a harem later. However for the first 15 or so chapters before those other options got added in the romance is some of the best ive seen in an AVN.
 

Alderamin

Newbie
Apr 5, 2018
35
68
just as I am seeing the dev being very active in this thread I'll post my musings on one of the characters that confuses me. I suppose that is the point of having that character in the first place. I am talking about Mason. If I understand correctly Mason is a boy that looks like a girl, simple enough. You can choose to acknowledge the choice that they are a boy or ignore it with I suppose different outcomes. Mason dresses like a boy but still has a thing for lacy lingerie. From the looks of it MC is just as confused by this behaviour as I am. In his thoughts, MC oscillates between he/she all the time. Is that an expression of MC's confusion? Is it a certain lack of consistency (I mean no offense, I suppose it is difficult to keep this kind of detail straight with an ambiguous character)? MC is - at least in my game - a good guy helping people but also boinking anything and everything that comes with a pussy. Is Mason just suppressing his feelings out of gratitude when it comes to intimacy? Is he gay? Does it matter whether you address Mason as a woman if - as it looks she gets off as well?
I am not trying to start a fundamental discussion about trans people, just generally confused.
 
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Raoddik

Member
Oct 11, 2021
453
463
Single LI games are some of the rarest games on here I think I've only played one of them.
I always believed it's because It's just easier to code full harem and most of the time people want all girls anyway, so most devs just don't bother (and then there are games where you can only pick one girl at the end and people still want all). Choices are always nice but they take a lot of time to implement sadly.
 

NeonGhosts

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Game Developer
Mar 20, 2019
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just as I am seeing the dev being very active in this thread I'll post my musings on one of the characters that confuses me. I suppose that is the point of having that character in the first place. I am talking about Mason. If I understand correctly Mason is a boy that looks like a girl, simple enough. You can choose to acknowledge the choice that they are a boy or ignore it with I suppose different outcomes. Mason dresses like a boy but still has a thing for lacy lingerie. From the looks of it MC is just as confused by this behaviour as I am. In his thoughts, MC oscillates between he/she all the time. Is that an expression of MC's confusion? Is it a certain lack of consistency (I mean no offense, I suppose it is difficult to keep this kind of detail straight with an ambiguous character)? MC is - at least in my game - a good guy helping people but also boinking anything and everything that comes with a pussy. Is Mason just suppressing his feelings out of gratitude when it comes to intimacy? Is he gay? Does it matter whether you address Mason as a woman if - as it looks she gets off as well?
I am not trying to start a fundamental discussion about trans people, just generally confused.
First, thanks for approaching this in a respectful and open-minded way. Your main question as to what the 'point' of Mason is, is pretty simple -- because I think that character type is hot. I've dated a non-binary person who kind of floated between being girly and masculine, and I was really into that whole dichotomy. I always had a thing for tomboys, and then over time that morphed into an interest in the whole gender non-conforming part of the spectrum. Also, from an unfinished Twine/CYOA game really intrigued me, and they were on my mind when I first created Mason.

As to why Mason presents as he does, behaves as he does, etc. it's pretty explicitly spelled out in one of the paths, when you take Mason shopping. To wit: sexuality and gender exist on a spectrum. Masculinity, femininity, and their accompanying expectations and associated traits, aren't always straightforward. Moreover, they're constantly changing. This has nothing to do with trans people, mind you. This is just the nature of culture, and gender expectations. When I was a kid, I copped an enormous amount of shit for not fitting into the normal boy 'box.' I wasn't competitive, I didn't like sports, and I wasn't loud, brash, etc. I was a quiet, bookish little nerd who spent his days drawing and reading stories about superheroes and wizards, and went home to play videogames. For that, I was called a bitch, gay, a pussy, etc. These days, I do cardio and weights every day, I have a "manly" job, and I've had more good sex with beautiful women than I ever expected to. But, I don't listen to Joe Rogan, smoke cigars, or eat elk, so I once again find myself outside the man 'box.'

Mason is an expression of this, and of the reality that there are trans men who use masculine pronouns, and present in a way that is masculine/androgynous.. But, they still keep their tits and dress up in cute little outfits while they get fucked. I'd link you to some OnlyFans or Instagram figures, but I kind of hate to pull real people into my pervy little business. Go find the appropriate tags and scroll through some Instagram reels, if you're curious about what that might look like.

It's also worth pointing out that there are other characters in the game, which also don't really present in a way that fits into the standard gender box. Nicki never wears makeup (unless it's for a very special occassion), and Alex is jacked as all Hell. Go find any body builder girl's Instagram, and scroll through the comments. Once you get past the muscle mommy simps (and I say that with love, as a muscle mommy simp) you'll find a bunch of guys (and even women) calling her a freak, a tranny, looking for her Adam's apple, etc. "wE cAn aLwAyS TeLL!" etc. and so on.

But, nobody really questions why I've included these similarly divisive love intersts in my jerk-off game -- and I think that's interesting. And I honestly don't even attribute this to any overt transphobia, or anything like that (mostly). I think it's just because, within this genre, Mason is an aberration. If I'd made Mason a 'futa' people would get that. Hot girl with a big dick? Those have been a hentai and AVN staple for years, so people get it, even if it's not their cup of tea. If I'd made Mason a regular tomboy, or a girl who'd only been presenting as a boy to survive on the streets? People would get that, too. These are tropes of the genre. But, because Mason is kind of messy, not really fitting into a convenient genre tag, people don't really know what to do with him.

Finally, just to break down Mason's whole deal: Born a girl (sex), but prefers to be referred to and treated as a man (gender). Physical presentation (grooming, clothes, etc.) typically skew masculine during normal life, but during sex can assume a more submissive/twink role. Regarding his relationship with the player, Mason is most happy/open when you refer to him as a male, all the time. But, he's understanding when you treat him like a boy in the streets, and a girl in the sheets. He's least happy when you refer to him as a girl all the time, but you're still helping him, so he keeps quiet.

If you're noticing a constant oscillation between the player referring to Mason as he/she, it's because you've done something to enable the 'tempgirl' variable, where you refer to Mason as a girl in bed, and a guy outside of it. That doesn't always have a clear line, but it usually starts when everyone's clothes come off. It's also possible that I just goofed on a line of code.

I hope that answered most of your questions. I know it's a big long and rambling.
 

RC-1138 Boss

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2017
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Will admit i also didn't noticed the thing about Nicki and make up right until you mentioned Neon. :oops:
Guess i will be checking this out when chapter 1 remake is done. :p


Now about Nicki, Alex and Mason i like to think my sexual attraction range is more eclectic than the average person out there, plus i try not to let prejudice dictate my actions. :)
 
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NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
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Hey, folks! I've posted a new game, free for everyone in celebration of Valentine's Day.



View attachment 4551936

Happy Valentine's Day to all you lovely folks who have supported and encouraged me -- and to the haters, you only make me strongerrrrrr!

;D
I very much enjoyed the bonus of Blue Valentine. The added value always makes me feel better about the decision to support the project. This particular entry had a lot of subtext that I enjoyed. Even about the ways that the VN itself is made. I think that when you are writing and you get into that groove, your characters start to feel real to you. In a work where they are going to be exploited, mistreated, and used it can stir up some really negative emotions as you write. I've struggled with this on occasion. This glimpse behind the curtain may be very enlightening to some. We haven't learned enough about Sapphire to really begin to care for her as we have for the others, but I've little doubt that we will eventually get that chance. When we do, this little entry into the story may be an opportunity for reflection. Well done.
 
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