Seiko126

Newbie
Sep 21, 2018
72
144
231
have the option for an enemies-to-lovers sexual relationship.
Fantastic. Honestly I'm the kind to go for the vanilla routes but imo what puts this game a notch above the rest is that grey zone you've created in the relationship between characters along with a lot of variables from the little changes in conversation all the way to the big choices and the short distances in consequence, for a save scummer like me that has to see most of the differences this game is incredible. Ironically being a straight bastard to a few of these girls let's you learn more about them initially then if you played the hero. I think that's fantastic on your part. Also gives incentive for those who want to know what weaknesses/limits these girls have in advance rather than wait through a dozen dates or two to find out. I've got limits too though so being the devil himself is not for me and it's crazy to see the mc go off the deep end, but I acknowledge that's part of what makes you feel so in control over the game, that you can go full bastard even if you don't want to.

My main point is you're a hell of a writer for maintaining a sensible middle ground and it's really fun to overstep boundaries and see how much you can get away with. Being Hyde and Jekyll and confusing the fck out of these girls but still being relatively decent. Most games are pretty black and white in regards to what choices dictate your type of relationship/character but this game allows me to indulge the bully in me which likes to see how far I can cross the line with these girls but not so far that you can't have a romance with them. That's the best part. Tiptoeing that line. Especially looking forward to Risa, charming girl despite her problems (it's the wingman moment that does it for me, she's so animated). Keep up the great work, it's one of a kind I'm sure you know.
 

xfam0us

Member
Mar 23, 2018
110
148
228
It's nothing I plan to address immediately, but I think your argument has a lot of merit. Ashe's first appearance in Chapter Two also featured my first time really using things like coded variables in the script. As a result, a lot of her relationship progression is.. Kind of clunky. I'd say the same is true of Gabby, who you can kiss, and then she basically brushes it off and never mentions it again. It's just because I didn't add nearly as many variables as I needed to, to track everything going on with them.

These are things I'd like to fix eventually. At present, Ashe kind of has a FWB path, which came from her recent dinner-date with Guy. If you just parted as friends in Chapter Two, then slept with her on her date, she leaves instead of staying over, and doesn't use much lovey-dovey language. Likewise, I plan to make her corruption path, where Guy coerces her into coming home with him in Chapter Two, have the option for an enemies-to-lovers sexual relationship. Again, there are some hints towards that in her date, if you manage to improve her opinion of you, and she asks you to fuck her. So, it'd be relatively trivial to move some things around and have the option where you see her as a hook-up. My intention with Ashe on the love path is basically that she, as someone who beleives in astrology, moon cycles, magnetic fields, etc. sees some kind of cosmic confluence in her romance with Guy. Meeting him, sleeping with him on the first date, and running into him in the park all make her think the winds of fate are blowing, so she jumps a little too readily into full-on romance.

As part of my remake of Chapter One, I'll be moving all the various chapter variables so they load before the game itself, with default values. This will be the end of the "XYZ not defined" error that's occasionally plagued me, while also allowing me to go back and tinker with things in the early chapters, adding content branches, without breaking the game. At that time, I'd like to clean up some stuff from Chapter Two and Three.



Well, like Tolkien said, "The tale grew in the telling."

I hadn't originally planned for Risa to occupy the spot in the story that she currently does. I'd planned for her to have a looser connection to events. But, ultimately I realized that having someone who was so closely acquainted with the main good-path antagonist would be useful.

As for her appearances over the last few updates, she was in a brief scene where she tried to make MC look good to Ashe, and then an optional scene where MC could visit her. Then she was in an optional scene where you woke up in the office with her present. Then the relatively brief scene where she baits you into visiting Lucien.

The same updates had scenes with Ashe, Viola, Nicki, Brittani, Cam-Pepper, and Carolina. So, I'd hardly say she's getting an outsized amount of shine. The only people we haven't seen much of lately are Gabby and Madison, but that's largely because their plot begins to take center stage with the release of Madison's husband, and his unraveling connection to the larger plot.



I'd still wager I finish it before George RR Martin gets the next SoIaF book out.

Look, I totally get that it's frustrating to wait for updates, or wait for content for a character you like. But, allow me to put this in perspective. The current script has 384,566 words in it, and nearly 3 million characters. Google tells me that the average 300 page novel stands around 90,000 words.

So, in less than two years, I've written 4.27 novels, while rendering something like 8,000 pieces of art, teaching myself how to do rudimentary coding, generating content for my subscription platforms, and interacting with four main communities/discussion hubs. And I work an average of 60 hours a week, make time to exercise every day, and saw four new countries last year.

There are games that have been around since 2019 that have put out less content than me, while having more supporters, multiple people working on them, and a frankly less challenging plot/branching storyline to write and render.

If anyone wants me to start putting out monthly updates where everything is POV, so I never have to render/pose more than one girl at a time, all the sex scenes are just a video of a dick sliding in and out of a pussy, and the location is the same mansion you've seen in a couple dozen games already, I can totally do that.

But, if you want me to keep making FiN, then it's going to take how long it takes.
i really like the game, but IMO, even though i like side characters like risa, when there is so many of them, and they all "need" to have their share of screentime, its gonna make the "game" feel like its moving very slowly in the big picture. Im sure the end product is gonna feel and play 100x better because of it, but thats why i felt like its gonna take a long time to get it completed. thats how i see it.
This problem is something that is very obvious in BaDIK too, too many sidestories / paths that make the game feel like its barely progressing
 

With The

Active Member
Jul 25, 2021
753
1,107
287
To be honest the game progress feels really slow because every update seems focus on 1 char and only give other char little screen time. Also to many choice lock behind good, neutral and bad mc is another reason why every update feels so short. Keep adding new char without proper story also doesnt help.
 

UnamedPluto

Member
Mar 27, 2018
136
373
199
A quick recommendation NeonGhosts

I know you're trying to avoid getting trapped in a rework cycle, but I was replaying, and when you first meet Ashe, if the two of you decide to, uhh... 'part ways', in the alley, you obviously still run into Mason, who was woken up by some ruckus (must have been racoons in the dumpster or something). He pretends to be asleep, and Guy talks to him a bit. This is a small thing and probably slips by most people, but I strongly recommend adding a throwaway line at the start of that one way conversation that explains Guy is changing his voice or something along those lines.

Anyone who has ever been in a situation like that will tell you, you will NEVER forget the voice of that person. Decades later, and someone who even sounds similar can cause an anxiety attack (that's usually for the victim themselves, but in this case it had to have been traumatizing to Mason to listen from just around the corner, especially when he's experienced similar, if less violent, treatment in the past). The same exact person only a few months later? Mason would absolutely recognize Guy's voice.
 

NeonGhosts

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 20, 2019
1,371
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698
I'm sure you're sick of being second guessed by us pirates, and I know you aren't adding these girls to pad out the game without having to write a story. I am not questioning your intent nor your work ethic. You are a skilled developer making a game I like. But from my point of view, I've yet to see you reduce the scope of a girl's content once she was added; her content might get delayed, but we're always assured it is still coming eventually. The ratchet has only ever gone in one direction. That is not sustainable. So as much as it might rankle, my sincere advice to you is to think long and hard about what exactly you'd be willing to cut from another girl's content before you decide to elevate any more characters to a larger role.
I appreciate the thoughtful reply.

I'll admit, a peril of working on this thing is that, as a serial publication, it kind of grows and changes as it develops. After the next chapter drops, I plan to to put out my original game document, which ends at the same point as the next chapter. That original outline was four chapters long, and the only characters to appear were Nicki, Mason, Alex, Gabby, and Madison. That was, for all intents and purposes, going to be the whole cast.

Then I got into developing the game, and people saw Brittani and said, "Whoa! Tell me more about her!" And so began the expanding cast.

I will argue that the quoted section of your reply isn't entirely true, though. There's a few areas in which I'm drawing down the amount of screentime girls get. There are dark paths that are closed, and girls who won't be seen on them again. There are sex-only and platonic relationships that won't get an outsized amount of time dedicated to them. There are girls that have already had full-length, multi-option sex scenes, and will only get more modestly-sized ones in the future (like Ashe's fucked-in-the-swimsuit scene, or Nicki's morning sex scene in the last chapter.) And, as girls become more locked into their paths, things get easier there, too.

I'm not going to sit here and be like, "Pfft, 12 girls and multiple routes? Cake! Simple!" It's not! But, I have a framework in my head, where some love interests will gain and lose prominence as the story develops.

A quick recommendation NeonGhosts

I know you're trying to avoid getting trapped in a rework cycle, but I was replaying, and when you first meet Ashe, if the two of you decide to, uhh... 'part ways', in the alley, you obviously still run into Mason, who was woken up by some ruckus (must have been racoons in the dumpster or something). He pretends to be asleep, and Guy talks to him a bit. This is a small thing and probably slips by most people, but I strongly recommend adding a throwaway line at the start of that one way conversation that explains Guy is changing his voice or something along those lines.

Anyone who has ever been in a situation like that will tell you, you will NEVER forget the voice of that person. Decades later, and someone who even sounds similar can cause an anxiety attack (that's usually for the victim themselves, but in this case it had to have been traumatizing to Mason to listen from just around the corner, especially when he's experienced similar, if less violent, treatment in the past). The same exact person only a few months later? Mason would absolutely recognize Guy's voice.
I don't want to talk about this too much, because it's going to be a plot point for Mason, later on. >_>
 

RC-1138 Boss

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2017
13,981
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Correct.

Well, Mason hears Guy and Ashe fooling around in the alley on the love path too, and comes out to investigate.
Yeah i remember this scene. Also remember Guy can let some money with Mason if he decides to bring Ashe to the apartment instead of stopping for a blowjob in the alley.
 
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PHIL101-YYouPPHard

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Jan 11, 2022
1,197
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I don't know how the heck to be a dad but I have to learn.
If I date Carolina that means Maya becomes my daughter. And I want to be the best dad ever.
Just giving a shit and putting them ahead of yourself almost guarantees good parenting in my experience :) It's sad how many don't even have that down.. Books from child development experts also help! I hope Neon puts in a scene like that, where Carolina catches him reading a parenting book or something... super adorable :giggle:

These are things I'd like to fix eventually. At present, Ashe kind of has a FWB path, which came from her recent dinner-date with Guy. If you just parted as friends in Chapter Two, then slept with her on her date, she leaves instead of staying over, and doesn't use much lovey-dovey language. Likewise, I plan to make her corruption path, where Guy coerces her into coming home with him in Chapter Two, have the option for an enemies-to-lovers sexual relationship. Again, there are some hints towards that in her date, if you manage to improve her opinion of you, and she asks you to fuck her. So, it'd be relatively trivial to move some things around and have the option where you see her as a hook-up. My intention with Ashe on the love path is basically that she, as someone who beleives in astrology, moon cycles, magnetic fields, etc. sees some kind of cosmic confluence in her romance with Guy. Meeting him, sleeping with him on the first date, and running into him in the park all make her think the winds of fate are blowing, so she jumps a little too readily into full-on romance.
I definitely needed that spelled out for me and I'm glad you did, because I was kinda wondering what exactly was behind Ashe's instant gravitation towards MC! Obviously, the reader can always infer things like "well, some women are love-at-first sight types, Guy's rich and attractive" and so on, and certainly that's all true for Ashe, but this is a very interesting look into her thinking, so thx :)

Also, on her willingness for corruption-to-romance and being treated a little badly; I like to think in my head that her guilt over Wren has given her a kind of self-hatred. Lots of people eventually morph their insecurities and pains into sexual kinks, i.e. cuckoldry and the like. Don't know if that's true for Ashe at all, and maybe it's a tad melodramatic, but it makes scenes bittersweet for me :cry:
 
Last edited:

Quetzzz

Active Member
Sep 29, 2023
985
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NeonGhosts A small suggestion concerning Nicki:
When she came sniffing for money, I raped her. (A combination of pent-up frustrations of being in love with her, and being angry at her for trying to use me and my feelings). Other than that, I haven't touched the dark path much.
When she came back, I apologized and didn't touch her, not wanting to scare or traumatize her further by initiating intimacy.
Now, she's calling me her best friend etc, but I don't feel that there was any closure for what I did to her. It's as if it never happened.

I'd love to see more consequences for raping her, specially if the player/MC behaves themselves after. For instance, Nicki not trusting the MC to come to her apartment (Like after the friendly dinner with Ashe). Alternatively, if Nicki has forgiven the MC and has (like she hints at) still feelings for him, maybe they could have a heart-to-heart and talk things out?
Personally, I think it'd make more sense to have Nicki remain relatively weary of the MC. I think it's currently impossible to go from rape to a romantic relationship (which I think is good), but then her hinting at loving the MC sends mixed signals.

An example of this is when Buffy the jacuzzi installer is at the apartment, and Nicki acts competitive/jealous toward her. Here it could make more sense if Nicki would try to warn her off, or even encourage the hookup (If the MC's sexual needs are met, it's safer for her to be around him).
 

b88b4

New Member
Aug 17, 2021
5
26
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It's nothing I plan to address immediately, but I think your argument has a lot of merit. Ashe's first appearance in Chapter Two also featured my first time really using things like coded variables in the script. As a result, a lot of her relationship progression is.. Kind of clunky. I'd say the same is true of Gabby, who you can kiss, and then she basically brushes it off and never mentions it again. It's just because I didn't add nearly as many variables as I needed to, to track everything going on with them.

These are things I'd like to fix eventually. At present, Ashe kind of has a FWB path, which came from her recent dinner-date with Guy. If you just parted as friends in Chapter Two, then slept with her on her date, she leaves instead of staying over, and doesn't use much lovey-dovey language. Likewise, I plan to make her corruption path, where Guy coerces her into coming home with him in Chapter Two, have the option for an enemies-to-lovers sexual relationship. Again, there are some hints towards that in her date, if you manage to improve her opinion of you, and she asks you to fuck her. So, it'd be relatively trivial to move some things around and have the option where you see her as a hook-up. My intention with Ashe on the love path is basically that she, as someone who beleives in astrology, moon cycles, magnetic fields, etc. sees some kind of cosmic confluence in her romance with Guy. Meeting him, sleeping with him on the first date, and running into him in the park all make her think the winds of fate are blowing, so she jumps a little too readily into full-on romance.

As part of my remake of Chapter One, I'll be moving all the various chapter variables so they load before the game itself, with default values. This will be the end of the "XYZ not defined" error that's occasionally plagued me, while also allowing me to go back and tinker with things in the early chapters, adding content branches, without breaking the game. At that time, I'd like to clean up some stuff from Chapter Two and Three.



Well, like Tolkien said, "The tale grew in the telling."

I hadn't originally planned for Risa to occupy the spot in the story that she currently does. I'd planned for her to have a looser connection to events. But, ultimately I realized that having someone who was so closely acquainted with the main good-path antagonist would be useful.

As for her appearances over the last few updates, she was in a brief scene where she tried to make MC look good to Ashe, and then an optional scene where MC could visit her. Then she was in an optional scene where you woke up in the office with her present. Then the relatively brief scene where she baits you into visiting Lucien.

The same updates had scenes with Ashe, Viola, Nicki, Brittani, Cam-Pepper, and Carolina. So, I'd hardly say she's getting an outsized amount of shine. The only people we haven't seen much of lately are Gabby and Madison, but that's largely because their plot begins to take center stage with the release of Madison's husband, and his unraveling connection to the larger plot.



I'd still wager I finish it before George RR Martin gets the next SoIaF book out.

Look, I totally get that it's frustrating to wait for updates, or wait for content for a character you like. But, allow me to put this in perspective. The current script has 384,566 words in it, and nearly 3 million characters. Google tells me that the average 300 page novel stands around 90,000 words.

So, in less than two years, I've written 4.27 novels, while rendering something like 8,000 pieces of art, teaching myself how to do rudimentary coding, generating content for my subscription platforms, and interacting with four main communities/discussion hubs. And I work an average of 60 hours a week, make time to exercise every day, and saw four new countries last year.

There are games that have been around since 2019 that have put out less content than me, while having more supporters, multiple people working on them, and a frankly less challenging plot/branching storyline to write and render.

If anyone wants me to start putting out monthly updates where everything is POV, so I never have to render/pose more than one girl at a time, all the sex scenes are just a video of a dick sliding in and out of a pussy, and the location is the same mansion you've seen in a couple dozen games already, I can totally do that.

But, if you want me to keep making FiN, then it's going to take how long it takes.
Will we be able to have sex with the jacuzzi in the next update?
 
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jamouyi

Member
Sep 30, 2023
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the patch doesnt work for me, is the taboo patch the one which allows you to roleplay with ashe as guppy. or is it something else and does the gallary mod not make it work seeing as im also using it.
 
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Dessolos

Board Buff
Jul 25, 2017
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NeonGhosts A small suggestion concerning Nicki:
When she came back, I apologized and didn't touch her, not wanting to scare or traumatize her further by initiating intimacy.
This kind of reminds me a bit of Ashe if you don't go full dark path. I dont really play dark path but I do check it out once in awhile just for the dialogue but I skip the lewd scenes. If you "assault" Ashe in the alley, then on the date drug her but not have sex with her and tell her you didn't do anything to her. Ashe seems really confused and it's almost like she kind of wondering if guy is even worth redemption or something in the future despite guy doing something horrible and unforgiveable to her. At least that's how I saw things cause why else didn't she just leave right away and instead ask guy why he didn't have sex with her.
 
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UnamedPluto

Member
Mar 27, 2018
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NeonGhosts A small suggestion concerning Nicki:
When she came sniffing for money, I raped her. (A combination of pent-up frustrations of being in love with her, and being angry at her for trying to use me and my feelings). Other than that, I haven't touched the dark path much.
When she came back, I apologized and didn't touch her, not wanting to scare or traumatize her further by initiating intimacy.
Now, she's calling me her best friend etc, but I don't feel that there was any closure for what I did to her. It's as if it never happened.

I'd love to see more consequences for raping her, specially if the player/MC behaves themselves after. For instance, Nicki not trusting the MC to come to her apartment (Like after the friendly dinner with Ashe). Alternatively, if Nicki has forgiven the MC and has (like she hints at) still feelings for him, maybe they could have a heart-to-heart and talk things out?
Personally, I think it'd make more sense to have Nicki remain relatively weary of the MC. I think it's currently impossible to go from rape to a romantic relationship (which I think is good), but then her hinting at loving the MC sends mixed signals.

An example of this is when Buffy the jacuzzi installer is at the apartment, and Nicki acts competitive/jealous toward her. Here it could make more sense if Nicki would try to warn her off, or even encourage the hookup (If the MC's sexual needs are met, it's safer for her to be around him).
Changes to the first interaction with Nicki are coming in the Chapter 1 remake (don't worry to anyone unfamiliar, Neon is only doing Chapter 1, he's very determined to not fall into the endless remake cycle). Correct me if I'm wrong Neon, but I believe you mentioned at some point that the 'assault' option is being toned down. I imagine it will still be very much worse than the 'exploit' path, but it won't be as vicious. Essentially the aim is to make it a bit more reasonable for her to come back to Guy after everything that happens during the time skip (and more importantly, stay there). I'd say Neon did a good job explaining how she found her way there, even if the player chooses 'assault', but the changes will also make the narrative flow a bit more with the two still being in a deeply abusive relationship, but it won't be as extreme as it is now.

That said, some of the scenes between the two are pretty brutal, and Neon isn't planning to change the other chapters, so we'll see. Maybe he'll go with having Guy taking a more, 'I own you" approach in Chapter 1 after the assault option. Telling her that he expects her to come back. Right now Nicki is neither Stockholm syndrome nor 'hes abusive, but I know he loves me' on the pure assault path. It's close to both, but is still neither. Will be interesting to see how our supreme leader handles it.
 
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Joshy92

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Mar 25, 2021
13,903
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Just giving a shit and putting them ahead of yourself almost guarantees good parenting in my experience :) It's sad how many don't even have that down.. Books from child development experts also help! I hope Neon puts in a scene like that, where Carolina catches him reading a parenting book or something... super adorable :giggle:


I definitely needed that spelled out for me and I'm glad you did, because I was kinda wondering what exactly was behind Ashe's instant gravitation towards MC! Obviously, the reader can always infer things like "well, some women are love-at-first sight types, Guy's rich and attractive" and so on, and certainly that's all true for Ashe, but this is a very interesting look into her thinking, so thx :)

Also, on her willingness for corruption-to-romance and being treated a little badly; I like to think in my head that her guilt over Wren has given her a kind of self-hatred. Lots of people eventually morph their insecurities and pains into sexual kinks, i.e. cuckoldry and the like. Don't know if that's true for Ashe at all, and maybe it's a tad melodramatic, but it makes scenes bittersweet for me :cry:
That would be an easy favourite scene for me.
I want to be a good dad to Maya.

I'll help her with homework. And take her to the park so she can play with the other kids.
All that stuff a dad should do.
 
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