Marecotroll
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I had to abandon it when I got to the part where Erika was leaving, the amount of errors with missing images was unbearable...
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WCKD_FOX
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- Mar 21, 2019
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If you think about this one, I call dibsHey MangoWorks .. did I just spot a cameo appearance by Lilly? If so, nicely done.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet. Not even a discussion about whether it could be her or not.
Am I the first one to notice?
I'm not going to reveal where she appears, but the description fits perfectly.
Njoiboi
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- May 19, 2024
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Yes, that's what I meant. I searched for “Lilly,” but the only comments I quickly skimmed were about what people expect from Lilly. So I thought I was the first one to notice that.If you think about this one, I call dibs
Good that you already noticed it. All credit for the discovery goes to you, of course. Haha
In any case, the developers must have had a reason for rendering a character there at that moment.
The effort involved in putting her in the picture is very suspicious. A lot of movement for a background, very clearly and distinctly lit, no blur mask. The description also fits her.
Either it's her or the developer wants to lead us down the wrong path.
If it is her, I wonder whether she is just there by chance or whether she is eavesdropping on the conversation. Also, the placement of the picture at the exhibition, right now, at the very moment he is there. Too many coincidences, far too many. It gives the impression that it is deliberate.
The only problem is, WHY all this? Currently, the story (if it is intentional on Lilly's part) doesn't make sense to me at the moment, as I still don't see the motive. So I have to continue to assume that it is a coincidence.
As for the MC, many people wonder why he is so obsessed with finding Lilly. I don't see it that way. Sure, now that he has a few clues and leads to investigate, it's only natural that he would go after his best friend and possible former crush.
But his life before that wasn't obsessed with her. On the contrary, he more or less consciously avoided her. He didn't answer her texts and so on. You can see from Daphne how easy it would have been to make contact if he had been obsessed with Lilly.
He lost his mother, his thoughts were simply elsewhere.
Quetzzz
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I think the rework cleared this up nicely. If I'm not mistaken, the excuse for losing touch with Lilly in the original version was that the MC broke his phone.
Him ghosting her while looking for the bottom of bottles makes a lot more sense. He was depressed and probably thought he didn't deserve her or deserved the pain. This version solves questions like, "Why not load the backup from Google/Apple contacts or look for her on social media?" and "The MC getting a new phone doesn't mean he'd get a new number, so Lilly could've contacted him."
Still, a few questions remain... He was in his final year of high school when all of that happened... But did they never discuss at which university they would meet up? Didn't they look at universities that offered the courses they both were interested in and they both could apply to? Sure, Lilly could've changed universities during her studies or even right after she was ghosted by the MC, but the MC should have a lot more information to tell Daphne regardless.
Njoiboi
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Who says they didn't? We only ever see brief flashbacks. It's possible that they discussed it. That was their plan, so we can assume that they talked about it. We've only seen 20 seconds of memories from their years of living together. Of course, there's much more to it than that.
And he didn't go to just any university, but back to the place where he left everything behind. So that must be the place they agreed on.
If I had to find someone from my childhood, my best friend at the time who lived just a few houses away from me. I could tell you everything about him, but that wouldn't help my search.
I would also do what Daphne does. Search through social media accounts and go from there.
But there are so many people with same name and no one uses Facebook anymore. The house has already been torn down. Where would you even start looking?
So, I think it makes sense the way it's presented.
- Jul 26, 2023
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We created this render for a public, Halloween-themed contest and decided to share it with you!
There will be a new devlog soon, focusing on Part C and Special Renders schedule.
Meanwhile, I hope you like it!
Mango
Quetzzz
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There's a mismatch between how important Lilly seems to him and the information he's able to tell Daphne. Their chat would've been the time to show that their promise was more than just talk, but that they were planning for it.
Imagine these two scenarios:
- They agreed to go to university at Nothan City because he'd be more likely to be able to afford it, and it has an art program for Lilly and whatever courses the MC wanted to take. Then, seeing the painting would deepen the shock, urging the MC to ask Val whether she's certain that only students of this university can take part in the exhibition, while making him realize that "the one who got away" is actually close. It could later be revealed that Lilly switched to a better university after realizing the MC gave up on her.
- If they mutually agreed to go to this university, then why hasn't it come up even once, even in a small remark? On the train, the MC could consider, "Maybe I'll even run into her again... Who am I kidding? She probably finished her degree already." They're both 23, and most degrees take three to four years to complete.
Maybe. To be fair, I'm having a bit of difficulty following the timeline. I know the MC grew up in the city and then moved away. But I'm not certain if he moved away after Lilly moved, or if he got to know Lilly in the new city before she moved away. There's a remark that he's known her for five or so years, so I assumed the latter. He moved with his mom when he was 8-ish, then got to know Lilly, who moved away when they were 13-14. (A small intertitle or notification of "x years ago" would clear up so much.)
So you'd be able to say if they originally planned to go to a different college or that you assumed they finished their degree already? This is valuable information that could also serve as a red herring for Daphne and the audience. It's also something Daphne could have her own opinion about, like suggesting that Lilly is doing a doctorate degree, and if true, it would make the search easier. In reality, Lilly could be going for a 2nd degree in literature (maybe even evening classes) because she wants to make her own comic books or something.
Yeah, I think everyone would, regardless of not being a fan of social media. Disliking social media wouldn't weigh up against a better chance of finding Lilly, right?
There's a time skip of a week, and I'm surprised nobody suggested to the MC to make himself visible on social media to allow him to be found. The part where he only remembered Lilly's last name after seeing it, I thought, was nice. He's known her as Lilly and was never required to keep her last name in mind.
This is what I'd do if I were that invested in finding her: Make a social media account on the biggest platform, then ask Val to make a drawing of the hands and write "Lilly I'm here" and the social media handle on it. Then I'd make a ton of copies and plaster them all over college in addition to looking for her actively. Looking at the MC's behavior toward Cassandra, he's desperate to find Lilly. But this desperation is hardly shown in other areas.
It makes sense if you assume that everyone did or discussed certain things without the audience witnessing it. I'm not entirely opposed to this kind of storytelling, but in this case, I think adding more details would help me be convinced of Lilly's importance to the MC. A big part of that is showing and telling that they both took steps to fulfill the promise before the MC ghosted her. Another part would be the MC's desperation being more pronounced in other scenes or less over the top in Cassandra's office. The same MC who's so desperate and impatient toward Cassandra is the same guy who spent his evenings gaming with Val during the time skip. What else was he doing? Did he do anything to find Lilly, like sitting outside the university entrance in the hope of recognizing her?
There's a fine line between Lilly as a plot device and Lilly as a person/character. Currently she's still a plot device, and that could hurt the character development of both her and the MC later on.
Njoiboi
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Oh, okay, I'll try to go through everything.
But there are many reasons why this is not the case.
Perhaps the developer simply didn't think that far ahead, underestimating the extent and, above all, the players' thirst for information, or perhaps he wants it to remain unclear so that players keep wondering – which, if that's the case, has worked. Haha.
I don't think there's any point in wondering about it anymore. Daphne found her, and more information about Lilly wouldn't help her anyway.
But as I understand it, Lilly moved away.
Then his mother fell ill.
He had to take on several jobs to pay for the hospital bills.
(I think that's when he moved away to be closer to the hospital and his workplace?)
Then his mother passed away.
After that came the phase where he drank and shut himself off from everything around him.
Until he was invited to live in the house where we are now.
Is it that easy in America? I don't know... In Europe, I'm not aware of it being that easy to get hold of personal data, especially from schools.
Did Lilly move away without him knowing which school she will be attending there, or did she mention where she is moving to and which school she will be attending there?
Maybe he has forgotten a lot of things, work, mother, drinking, stress, it's easy to lose track of little things.
We should think less deeply.
Who knows, maybe the message would still be forwarded by email.
Or we could see which friends Lilly has on the platform and if someone is online there, just write to them, maybe they know more.
BUT that also shows that he's not “obsessed.”
Nice idea to distribute the notes everywhere. It could actually lead to something. Or at least fill in the gaps in the story for a month.
Even years later, I still remember the image of the little girl standing behind her mother's legs and meeting her new little “brother.” From that moment on, the bond between the two became very clear, and then it was also extremely emotional when they had to part ways. Unfortunately, that's missing here. MC is written very passively and doesn't allow for any emotions.
Well maybe, the plot twist will be when it turns out that Stella is his stepsister.
What happened to the MC's father again?
(oh, and by the way, I like Stella. Yes, she's bitchy, but she's also the kind of character you want to fix.)
.. and Lilly, plot device... hmm... I'm thinking of Cece from the game Leap of Faith. I don't think I need to mention how important such “plot devices,” as you call them, are to a story.
Who knows, maybe the story here is also linked to a sad real truth, just like in Leap of Faith. (no spoiler!)
But let's just wait and see where the journey with the MC takes us.
I'm playing two save games, one where I take all the girls. With the other save, I'm giving up on all of them and waiting for Lilly to make me a man. lol
Let's see what happens, whether it's worth the wait.
Perhaps more memories will come back. Of course, the flashbacks could have been embellished with more information.
But there are many reasons why this is not the case.
Perhaps the developer simply didn't think that far ahead, underestimating the extent and, above all, the players' thirst for information, or perhaps he wants it to remain unclear so that players keep wondering – which, if that's the case, has worked. Haha.
I don't think there's any point in wondering about it anymore. Daphne found her, and more information about Lilly wouldn't help her anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But as I understand it, Lilly moved away.
Then his mother fell ill.
He had to take on several jobs to pay for the hospital bills.
(I think that's when he moved away to be closer to the hospital and his workplace?)
Then his mother passed away.
After that came the phase where he drank and shut himself off from everything around him.
Until he was invited to live in the house where we are now.
I have no idea how you plan to get hold of students' data.
Is it that easy in America? I don't know... In Europe, I'm not aware of it being that easy to get hold of personal data, especially from schools.
Did Lilly move away without him knowing which school she will be attending there, or did she mention where she is moving to and which school she will be attending there?
Maybe he has forgotten a lot of things, work, mother, drinking, stress, it's easy to lose track of little things.
We should think less deeply.
Yes, even if Lilly's account has been inactive for 5 years, I would at least have tried to send her a message there.
Who knows, maybe the message would still be forwarded by email.
Or we could see which friends Lilly has on the platform and if someone is online there, just write to them, maybe they know more.
BUT that also shows that he's not “obsessed.”
Nice idea to distribute the notes everywhere. It could actually lead to something. Or at least fill in the gaps in the story for a month.
I think Sunshine Love is one of those games where Mango still has to learn how to write backstories for childhood characters.
Even years later, I still remember the image of the little girl standing behind her mother's legs and meeting her new little “brother.” From that moment on, the bond between the two became very clear, and then it was also extremely emotional when they had to part ways. Unfortunately, that's missing here. MC is written very passively and doesn't allow for any emotions.
Well maybe, the plot twist will be when it turns out that Stella is his stepsister.
What happened to the MC's father again?
(oh, and by the way, I like Stella. Yes, she's bitchy, but she's also the kind of character you want to fix.)
.. and Lilly, plot device... hmm... I'm thinking of Cece from the game Leap of Faith. I don't think I need to mention how important such “plot devices,” as you call them, are to a story.
Who knows, maybe the story here is also linked to a sad real truth, just like in Leap of Faith. (no spoiler!)
But let's just wait and see where the journey with the MC takes us.
I'm playing two save games, one where I take all the girls. With the other save, I'm giving up on all of them and waiting for Lilly to make me a man. lol
Let's see what happens, whether it's worth the wait.
Quetzzz
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Personally, I think it's a bit of everything. Without judgment, I think Mango wasn't an experienced writer before starting this game. The rework removed several instances of porn logic and plot holes, which I can only applaud. He had a good concept, characters with depth, but likely didn't work out the MC's backstory in detail. He also seems to have the habit of forcing mysteries. Daphne being Val's friend, "Unknown Boy," who's Marcus and drove the MC to the university, and "Unknown Girl" who's just Stella on the phone... I'm sure some people like these kinds of mystery boxes, but to me they jump out as fake and unnecessary. Sometimes, what's not being said points to a fake mystery.
I do agree that it's good to keep the audience thirsting for information, but this can't come at the cost of credibility.
It remains to be seen if Daphne found a good lead or has actually found Lilly. From a narrative perspective, I think meeting Lilly will be the chapter 2 cliffhanger, or that she'll actually be found in chapter 3. Any later, and Lilly won't be able to catch up to the LIs we already know.
How I understand the timeline is:
- He lived with his mother in Isabela City until a relatively young age. He knew Melinda and Val through his mother.
- They moved to ?????
- There, he got to know Lilly, who moved away a few years later.
- In his senior year of high school, his mother got sick, and he gave up on his studies and began drinking; that's when he ghosted Lilly.
- It's not clear if he finished high school. The game said he was studying for his entrance exams, but I assume this is something like the SAT exam in the US.
- He eventually started working full-time to pay for his mother's medical care. It's not clear how he switched from drinking to being motivated.
- Four years later, his mother dies.
- He accepts Melinda's invitation to move to Isabela City.
The part where he started drinking after his mother passed away is from the pre-rework version, if memory serves. One disconnect with my version of the timeline is how familiar and familial the MC treats Melinda and Val. They're not behaving toward each other as people who saw each other once in a while. The MC even remarks he hasn't seen them for two years. I suspect they were originally meant to be an aunt and niece.
Daphne knows plenty of people, remember? And a university would have way fewer people doing a doctorate than a bachelor's. These people tend to stand out a bit as well, and many people would know of them because they've been at the university for years.
If Lilly is doing a doctorate, that means she already has a degree and could be in things like yearbooks or alumni lists. These aren't a given, but potential avenues for the story to have taken or things Daphne could have considered (even as a red herring).
We don't know. They made a promise to meet up again at college/university, and the MC was preparing for his "entrance exams", but we don't even know if they had Isabela's university in mind and what this could mean for the credibility of the MC's reaction at the exhibition.
I think interweaving this information could elevate the narrative. For instance, the MC could consider he's dreaming of Lilly because he's in the city she was going to study in. That being there reminds him of the promise and that he's 4-5 years too late to keep it.
It would add a bit more depth.
Yeah, I more or less agree with that. But I don't know if he's not allowing himself to feel anything or if that's just how he is. At the end of the current content, he's been in Isabela City for two weeks, and his mother died 6 weeks ago.
I noticed while playing the game that I regularly had difficulty imagining his voice. Was he excited or stoic? Loud or quiet? Often I couldn't tell. He isn't posed emoting often either, though that could be said for most, if not all, characters.
For instance, after his date with Paris, he said he enjoyed it and he'd like to go out with her again. But nothing in the dialogue or render conveyed any actual enthusiasm to me. I thought that he was just happy to be distracted while appreciating her company. If this is by design, then a few more glimpses of how the MC is grieving could help frame his mental state.
Except Cece is very much a character, not a plot device. She's more than a gimmick that drives the story forward.
Lilly might have succeeded where Cece didn't; that could explain why Lilly is still more of a concept, something that happened to the MC, rather than a person we get to know through the MC.
Practically speaking, I don't think this will be the case. I just can't see how this game could pull off that kind of emotional reveal and consequences for the MC... Unless it ends with the MC throwing himself off a bridge or something.
Absolutely! I'm excited for future content.But let's just wait and see where the journey with the MC takes us.
I'm playing two save games, one where I take all the girls. With the other save, I'm giving up on all of them and waiting for Lilly to make me a man. lol
Let's see what happens, whether it's worth the wait.
I'm similar with my playstyle. One save is where I go against the grain and deal with LIs based on their first impression. A large theme of this game seems to be that first impressions aren't always right and that everyone has their own problems and baggage. I didn't get coffee with Daphne, walked out of Stella's, didn't admonish Erika but didn't make a move either, and walked away from Beth and later blocked her number. I walked out of Cassandra's as well. The only open paths I still have are with Val and Sayuri, I think (I'm not counting Melinda because I have no interest in mother/aunt-type LIs.)
Daphne is an interesting case for me. After chatting with her at night, I actually started to like her as something more than a potential source of lewd scenes.
The other save, like yours, is the Pokémon style of "gotta catch 'em all."
-CookieMonster666-
Message Maven
- Nov 20, 2018
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Hrmmm... I enjoy this VN, and though I've not finished replaying for the rework yet, I'm liking this update so far. I do wonder why the developer has this odd habit of showing characters' mouths closed while they're talking. It's not just once or twice, but a lot of the time. And at least often it seems like it's not because no render of the character with their mouth open was created. Like with Daphne's coffee shop conversation near the beginning: she'll start talking with her mouth closed, then she'll say her next lines with her mouth open. It's... weird. I assume not every character is practicing ventriloquism.
GustavoGanz
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- May 23, 2023
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Can someone please tell me why there are two WT mods for this game? Neither of them is working for me at the moment – RenPy errors. Installing both doesn't work either, as they overwrite each other.
Quetzzz
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- Sep 29, 2023
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The game had a slightly more complex pathing before the rework. The rework also added more choices to several scenes. It's safe to say that old mods won't work.
GustavoGanz
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- May 23, 2023
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From that perspective, it's probably better to restart the game instead of using old saves. Thank you.
-CookieMonster666-
Message Maven
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There's definitely some variable tracking that's currently expected that isn't happening. The first evening with Melinda, this is the code:
I chose the option for the MC to hug her. But then, in the Chapter One summary:
There is some bug-fixing still needed, clearly. Either the mention should be removed from the summary, or the variable
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hugmelinda needs to be set to True when that choice is made. I'm manually setting it to the correct value, but the dev should fix some of this stuff, especially if there are more choices that will definitely matter later.