Others Going Deeper [Beta 2.1] [NRFB Games]

[CSdev]

Now that I'm nearing the end of my third playthrough, I feel like I can give some more detailed feedback regarding the game. I'll describe my play experience first, in order to give some context to the feedback.

I enjoyed reading the opening, and I immediately felt pretty immersed in the setting. The setup with the two goddesses and the way that you convey the prevailing attitudes toward magic and the other faith is really interesting. I hope we get more worldbuilding like that (it can even play into the sexual appeal - loss of morals is a fetish, after all, and seeing the knights corrupted into performing some sort of sacrilege against Syra would fit). My only suggestion here would be to add maybe a short branching dialogue path or two in order to help the player "get in character." Like, say, "Chastise Raine" versus "Praise Raine's vigilance" after she finally lets you talk. It could even affect starting relationship values.

I'd like to echo the people who've said that they appreciate the scene hints. When I saw that they were clearly marked, I pretty much said to myself "I'll unlock them if it's convenient, but otherwise I'm just going to play to win and see what happens." And right from the start, I found the decision of whether to take a random curse instead of applying P Corruption to be a very interesting one.

The option to take a random curse is always the same - it doesn't depend on your performance during the floor. But the amount of P Corruption you take changes depending on how well the floor went. In other words, if you play well, then you're rewarded with the option to take only a small amount of P Corruption.

And if things go badly (you end up with a bunch of T Corruption or you have to rush down the stairs in order to avoid taking a bunch of P Corruption), you can at least take the curse instead. It's hard to say how much P Corruption a curse is "worth" (because it depends on how easy it will be to remove P Corruption and on how many floors will be in the final game), but the "best" result for a floor is currently always to completely map it out with all of the girls ending up with either 0 or 1 T Corruption.

After a couple of floors where one of the girls would end up with 5 or so T Corruption and I'd end up taking the curse instead, I got into a rhythm where I was clearing every floor with just +1 P Corruption on each girl. And I enjoyed this a lot. The girls' stats ended up being mostly the same (because I mistakenly thought that 15 was a hard cap), but their curses made them feel very different. Elli got Vainglory, Raine got Saboteur and Pheromones, and Lucette got nothing at all until the very end. I found myself thinking of how to use them in terms of their personality traits, which is always a good sign for an immersive game.

I made it to the end of the current content without much trouble and immediately started a playthrough where I took no curses at all. There's not much to say about it. It was easy and dull, and the girls were practically interchangeable by the end. I'm glad that it looks like you're working on more ways for curses to happen - it definitely wouldn't be good for a no-curse strategy to be the dominant one.

Finally, for my third playthrough, I wanted to try the opposite route, taking nothing but curses. It wasn't as hard as I thought it'd be, but as I near the end of the run, I'm finally getting to the point where I can't stop corruption breaks from happening, and everyone already has more P Corruption than they did in the second run on top of being cursed, so this suggests that your balancing of P Corruption versus curses is working well. Having a few isn't completely crippling, but it's definitely way worse than +1 or even +2 P Coruption.

The more surprising thing I've noticed during the third playthrough is that, past a certain point, curses stop giving each of the girls their own unique "flavor." When one girl has too many curses, each individual curse stops feeling like part of her personality. And when one curse is held by multiple girls, of course that doesn't make them feel different either. I think that the sweet spot, as far as flavor is concerned, is maybe two to four curses per knight, none of them overlapping. The way that you made the valid curses depend on the subject's personality is really clever, particularly since their personalities are something you can influence.

Now that I've explained where I'm coming from, I want to point out some specific issues I noticed and suggest some ways to deal with them. Some of these issues are things you've already said you're working on solving, but I still want to offer up my own ideas for your consideration.

(1) Action Counts and Obstacle Defeats dominate the pacing of the game
The Well-Rested counter is probably my least favorite mechanic in the game. Whenever two or more knights are moving together, trying to arrange for the more-exhausted one to get the last hit on a target feels really artificial. To a lesser degree, effects whose timers depend on the action count (including Scry) also don't feel great. Farming weak enemies to help a character recover is not only a breach of common sense, but also pretty tedious gameplay-wise. If you add some sort of penalty to staying too long in the dungeon (which I suspect you might be doing already), then you might be able to remove the need for Well-Rested entirely, and other negative effects whose durations are measured in actions could also be rebalanced. If you don't actually already have a penalty in mind, then my personal suggestion would be to make the minimum P Corruption for moving to the next floor depend on the turns spent on that floor, rather than on the floor's exploration completion. One last benefit: splitting up means finding the stairs faster, so making turn count matter will immediately cause grouping up to be less of a dominant strategy.

(2) There's never any reason to tackle multiple floors in the same day
As with making the turn counter meaningful, I suspect that you already have something in mind for this. But if you don't, then I have an idea I like: Instead of taking a curse or P corruption, why not allow the player to avoid both by immediately going deeper? It'd basically be a "double down" option where you almost certainly suffer some corruption breaks, but it might be less P Corruption than you'd suffer by taking the floors on separate days, particularly if you end the second floor by taking a curse.

(3) Dark rooms work against the game's porn delivery objective
Honestly, I feel like even if they didn't prevent you from seeing what's happening, they'd be punishing enough just by preventing you from contacting whoever's inside. One-way communication blockage would still make sense.

(4) When there are multiple buffs and debuffs present, the combat/disarming stat summary can be misleading
Instead of just displaying e.g. Raine's Physique, it might be better to display Raine's effective Physique, so that the player isn't left wondering whether the way everything is rounded will leave the monster with 1 HP left. There's a thin line between mental load and tedium, and that line is marked by a calculator.

(5) Trap specialty vs. monster specialty is hard to leverage for the player
Because you never know what's in an unexplored room, there isn't much payoff for specializing one knight to tackle traps and another to tackle monsters. In my experience, the actual specialization tends to be one knight who tanks and recovers well, then the other two to follow behind and beat the obstacle. If you want to change this, why not make it so that question marks instead show up as either "creature" or "structure"? Traps and stairs would both be structures. And the witch is relatively creaturey.

(6) The difference between 1 point for a stat increase and 2 points for a stat increase is really big
This partly ties into the above point about it being hard to point a knight at a particular kind of threat. Because you don't know what she's going to be up against, two points to shore up lower stats is pretty much always worth more than one point in a higher stat. You could maybe solve this by just changing how points are acquired and spent (e.g. you get 2 points per level, it takes 2 points to raise a stat up to 15, then 3 points for 16 to 20). But a more elegant solution might be to change where the soft cap kicks in for each character. So, maybe Raine's Strength doesn't start costing 2 points until 20, and same for Elli's Dexterity and Lucette's Focus.

(7) Curses stop feeling important once you have too many
Well, if the player has incentive to avoid curses, but they still end up with just the right amount of them through normal gameplay mechanics, then this isn't really an issue. But I still feel like the game might be improved by preventing multiple knights from receiving the same curse. A more ambitious mechanic, if you want to balance things so that knights end up with more than 3 or 4 curses, would be to let a knight "double up" on a curse, effectively gaining the same curse again and applying double or triple the usual numerical modifier (this would be less straightforward for some curses than for others). This could even play into the hypnosis system - a curse which has been rejected might never get doubled, while a curse which has been embraced might be weighted more heavily to get doubled.

Finally, one last piece of critique which applies to the game as a whole. The way that so much of the game revolves around uncovering information is great - considering the fact that the player character is an inquisitor of Melos, it's even an excellent example of ludonarrative harmony! But in order for a gameplay decision to be meaningful, the player needs a bare minimum of information to evaluate the possible results of that decision. As a new player, I sometimes felt that I didn't have any "levers" to pull in order to influence any of the outcomes, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people come to the game but get discouraged and quit before they have a chance to do much research or even meet the witch. I'm not sure what the best solution here is, but it looks like you're moving in the right direction with offering more information to the players, so maybe it'll come in time.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the expansion of the desire mechanics! This seems like it'll have a lot of potential to make curses even more interesting.

 

[Rosen King]

Finally, one last piece of critique which applies to the game as a whole. The way that so much of the game revolves around uncovering information is great - considering the fact that the player character is an inquisitor of Melos, it's even an excellent example of ludonarrative harmony! But in order for a gameplay decision to be meaningful, the player needs a bare minimum of information to evaluate the possible results of that decision. As a new player, I sometimes felt that I didn't have any "levers" to pull in order to influence any of the outcomes, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people come to the game but get discouraged and quit before they have a chance to do much research or even meet the witch. I'm not sure what the best solution here is, but it looks like you're moving in the right direction with offering more information to the players, so maybe it'll come in time.

One thing about this that stuck out to me (though I'm not sure if it's the kind of thing you're really talking about here) is the Drider's enormous health pool and generally being treated as a "boss monster", to the point of only appearing once per run, if memory serves. (I believe that was the root of an earlier bug where she only appeared once *ever*.) But since your first encounter is just going to be an enemy with ??? in every stat, you may not realize that she's supposed to be a big deal and treat her like any other enemy. But perhaps this can be addressed in some other way, like giving a different icon to that room and/or some other indication that it's a "boss room".

 

[NRFB]

I got a warning from windows defender that my pc might be in risk if I run the game, is it something I should be worrying about why it alerted me?

It would be pretty impressive for me to have gotten 15 pages of discussion over something that turned out to be a virus, but no.

My only suggestion here would be to add maybe a short branching dialogue path or two in order to help the player "get in character." Like, say, "Chastise Raine" versus "Praise Raine's vigilance" after she finally lets you talk. It could even affect starting relationship values.

I did write the intro before having dialogue choices working, but obviously I could add some in now if I wanted to. The only concern is that I know a lot of people have said the intro is already too long and wouldn't want to have to click through it to get to the choice every time if they wanted to pick the non-default option. I'd probably want to implement a 'fast forward through text' button first if nothing else.

Numbers

1) Yeah I'm working in making turn count matter, although I'm not sure how quickly I'm going to adjust away from action durations over turn durations. Scry going to turn based cooldown is probably first, then maybe some status effects, but I dunno about doing away with Well Rested. I agree it might be possible, but yeah right now it's very intentionally baked into the pacing.
2) My current thing to add for a multiple floor in a row bonus might or might not end up in the next update, although it's a bit different than that. I'm pretty okay with going back to camp being the norm though.
3) I'm not sure about this one. Just having them as communication blocking would work fine now, sure. If ally AI settings get more complex in the future though (so for example you can change default behaviors when encountering monsters/traps) it could make obscured rooms easier to deal with than intended, although it may also be fine.
4) The working stats in the room window/small stat box always round down from the actual value, while Monster/Trap health always rounds up. This should mean that at worst if there's overlap you may defeat a threat by more than expected from the summary... Which I suppose may very occasionally be an issue if you're juggling between different characters to give the last hit to a specific person.
I did always show the decimal values of the working stats in the stat boxes at one point, but got feedback of it being messy.
5) Thinking about it, this might actually be something that gets worse from turn count mattering. If there's a cost in waiting for a specialist to come and clear out a specific threat, then it makes sense to just make everyone into generalists, which isn't really intended... I'll have to think about it.
6) I do kind of like the different soft cap, since allies already have their own stat preferences. I do wonder if it will make it more or less clear that the cap for stat upgrades is soft, rather than hard though.
7) I will hold off on commenting too much on curse stuff right now, as the next update's interaction with curses changes this discussion enough for this to feel different.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the expansion of the desire mechanics! This seems like it'll have a lot of potential to make curses even more interesting.

Thank you for all the words to think about

But perhaps this can be addressed in some other way, like giving a different icon to that room and/or some other indication that it's a "boss room".

I've actually put consideration into the idea of there being boss floors that you may or may not end up in once you qualify for them, and those would be centered around big threats like the drider is right now since yeah she kinda lacks anything to point out that she's a big deal. It's just another thing on the pile.
(For reference, the drider's difficulty rating based on her stats is 45, the next highest threats have difficulties of 30)

 

[anvimur]

I did write the intro before having dialogue choices working, but obviously I could add some in now if I wanted to. The only concern is that I know a lot of people have said the intro is already too long and wouldn't want to have to click through it to get to the choice every time if they wanted to pick the non-default option. I'd probably want to implement a 'fast forward through text' button first if nothing else.

This feature (or the 'skip tutorial' setting skipping the explanation of the end-of-floor mechanic as well as the basic movement/tile/etc informaion) would be greatly appreciated. Very tired of mashing spacebar at the end of the first 1-3 floors at the beginning of a NG+ (I sometimes read through the scenes where the Witch says things, because I like how she talks, but I don't need to read the tutorial for dispelling/accepting curses, especially since skipping the tutorials doesn't actually force you to line them up like the cutscene)

 

[TankHunter678]

I got a suggestion regarding the choice of take curse or corruption, put a box next to the curse button color coded to match the curse you will get. Seeing how you have most curses kinda group colored anyways this would give people a general idea of the type of curse they will get. Could also have it where if you have a curse fully researched you actually get told what curse you get since you would recognize how that curse gets applied.

 

[Rosen King]

Very tired of mashing spacebar at the end of the first 1-3 floors at the beginning of a NG+

You can skip that stuff by pressing escape. Definitely needs a mouse-based method, though, if only so that the fact that it's possible to skip is visible as part of the UI.

 

[Rosen King]

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Hmm... Probably not me for that one. Having to do the calculations every time I cast charge to make sure I don't explode doesn't sound as fun as just constantly pouring more charge onto them. Speaking of explosions, I'm still traumatized by the spark orb, so the last thing I'd want is a *second* explosion on top of the one it's already gonna 'splode on me.

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*Elevator music*

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Things I want to see when the girls open a treasure chest:

Treasure
Hypno Trap
Mimic
Hypno Treasure
Robot Girl
Cursed Armor/Hypno Armor
A maid for some reason?
Hypno Something
One of those little mascot "treasure goblin" type creatures who runs away and you have to chase them down for loot.

Things I do not want to see when the girls open a treasure chest:

Goop
Penis

...Ah crap. I just realized the existence of the "slimed" status pretty much guarantees that any slime girls in this game will be the icky goopy kind and not the fun jello kind. I've always preferred the Gelatinous Cutie to the [insert clever play on monster name here, I'm tired].

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At first I was like, "Oh boy, a new stat." Then I realized it's probably just Corruption with a different name, the same way it refers to a curse as a "blessing". Though I wonder what benefits you would gain by accepting corruption or a curse... Or telling her to fuck off, for that matter.

By the way, I hope you realize that I fully intend to make Eschahn my bitch before this is over. I don't serve goddesses of corruption, I make them serve me. ...Or at the very least, I hope we'll get the chance to brainwash the Witch and/or some other "villains". (Like the corrupted knights from the group that came before us. Oh, don't think I've forgotten about that.) I feel like the inherent difficulty of brainwashing the Witch against her will (if only because you can't get her to focus on something she's not interested in) would be balanced out by the fact that she probably wouldn't really resist, and might even try to offer her own brand of advice while you're doing it. You probably couldn't get her to change her values, but she'd coach you through the best ways to get her to call you "Master".

Hmm... On that note, it would be neat if we could keep a sort of "menagerie" of captured monsters at camp for... research purposes. Doesn't have to be a robust new mechanic, just an excuse for having scenes at camp involving monsters in a more controlled environment, including monster girls in a submissive role. After all, why wouldn't a servant of the goddess of the mind want to see if it's possible to "tame" a succubus spawned by a heretical rival goddess?

 

[NRFB]

Bug - a7.1
Memory leak/Inf loop - Scry - Exact details unknown but what I do know is in the spoiler

I tracked this down and fixed it finally. It's hard to explain but surprisingly the Quality spell is not actually required, it just probably sped up the point where the memory leak became large enough to cause a problem.

In any case it's fixed.

I got a suggestion regarding the choice of take curse or corruption, put a box next to the curse button color coded to match the curse you will get. Seeing how you have most curses kinda group colored anyways this would give people a general idea of the type of curse they will get. Could also have it where if you have a curse fully researched you actually get told what curse you get since you would recognize how that curse gets applied.

Currently the option for the curse at the end of the floor is planned to stay random, but there are other things being added that change the decision making process anyway so it's hard to argue for/against your idea when we're working with different sets of information about the mechanics.

At first I was like, "Oh boy, a new stat." Then I realized it's probably just Corruption with a different name, the same way it refers to a curse as a "blessing".
...
I don't serve goddesses of corruption, I make them serve me.

Well it's the knights/inquisitor who decided to call them by the words "corruption" and "curses", although there is probably good reason for that.

Hmm... On that note, it would be neat if we could keep a sort of "menagerie" of captured monsters at camp for... research purposes. Doesn't have to be a robust new mechanic, just an excuse for having scenes at camp involving monsters in a more controlled environment, including monster girls in a submissive role. After all, why wouldn't a servant of the goddess of the mind want to see if it's possible to "tame" a succubus spawned by a heretical rival goddess?

I have idly thought about something like this, but it is a pretty big feature creep jump to say yes on, even if it's a fun idea.


Anyway, unrelated to any of the above, I did a full play test yesterday and am quite excited about how the new mechanics tie everything together and expand on player options. Still need to add a bit more balance tweaking and such, but I think it's looking good (even though it's once again going to make the game easier).

but yeah short term to-do list looks like:

and me hate writing tutorials

 

[Minole]

I know this is a long shot but doesn't hurt to ask:

Any chance of this being released on Android too? The description and tags have me super interested but I can't play it so I don't know if the gameplay would exclude that but I did a quick google of the engine and it seems to have Android support. Obviously it's understandable if it's just too much effort to be worth it.

 

[icollectsouls]

I kinda wish there was a way to spend a resource or more directly influence a specific h-event into happening, I've been trying to manipulate the Lucy/Elli scene into happening but I've just had zero luck so far getting it to pop. (Even got the Raine/Elli scene a second time, too.) I know some curses might help with that but hoping RNG gives something beneficial for my intentions isn't the smoothest process.

I know this is a long shot but doesn't hurt to ask:

Any chance of this being released on Android too? The description and tags have me super interested but I can't play it so I don't know if the gameplay would exclude that but I did a quick google of the engine and it seems to have Android support. Obviously it's understandable if it's just too much effort to be worth it.

I think it could be possible on Android, but a lot of the UI, controls, etc. would need a lot of reworking to make it more playable on a smart device. Unfortunately I'm not sure how much time and effort NRFB would be willing to spend on a fairly "different" version of the game, especially with it still being in an early state on PC.

 

[TankHunter678]

Currently the option for the curse at the end of the floor is planned to stay random, but there are other things being added that change the decision making process anyway so it's hard to argue for/against your idea when we're working with different sets of information about the mechanics.

The idea is not for choosing the curse, its for providing a hint using the fact your curses are color coded (such as how the lust based curses are pink). With research put into the curses to unlock the ability to know which curse the character would get. That wont change how the curse gets selected by the game, but whether you are willing to accept the curse or grab the corruption even if you would get a lot of corruption.

 

[Rosen King]

I have idly thought about something like this, but it is a pretty big feature creep jump to say yes on, even if it's a fun idea.

There are probably ways to implement something with minimal actual feature creep (i.e. not having an actual "monster catching mechanic" in the game), but I suppose you'd still have to worry about people complaining that it doesn't have enough content unless you add X number of scenes to it. Maybe if you make it something that just happens as part of the story, or as a result of completing the aforementioned "boss floors" (if they get implemented), and it just becomes a new location in camp where you can potentially interact with former enemies and see scenes when the knights visit. For example, if you complete the Drider's boss floor, she gets hauled back to camp and put in a cage. You spend some camp time "taming" her, which is just "press button and spend time" like research, and ends with a single unique scene showing her successfully brainwashed into a docile pet (or in the case of something like the Drider where being dommed is part of the fun, she's just made more agreeable and recognizes you as her Master, even though she doesn't act like a sub). At that point she's left to roam free in the menagerie, which now has a perpetual "chat with Drider" option (along with any other "pets" you have), and the occasional events that can trigger the same as any other camp scene.

But yeah, I get that even if you keep it to the bare minimum, there would still be that nagging feeling (and nagging players) saying, "If I'm gonna do this, there needs to be a scene for every boss, and at least one sex scene per knight per boss, and probably more just to fill it out." Even though none of that is actually required and you could do as much or little as you like with it.

and me hate writing tutorials

Well hey, maybe I could help you write the tutorials. All you have to do is tell me how all this stuff is gonna work... (I'm joking, I'd probably not be the best at writing proper tutorials, though I like to think I'm pretty good at helping people out in an informal setting. ...Also, I just realized that arrangement would require you to type up a tutorial anyway, lol.)

But I presume the hidden bits are "Tutorialize c(urse something)", "Tutorialize s(kill something)"x2, and "Write content(ious political commentary)". Looking forward to that last one.

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Oh come on, I still haven't figured out how they work with the regular curses! ...Although that might actually be because of a bug in the first version I played. I think some curses just perpetually had these particles hovering over them with no explanation and seemingly no reason for happening to one and not another. But I believe it was actually just supposed to be a random particle effect that briefly pops up over any of them, and it was just stuck on one for some reason. I didn't notice it in later versions.

Well it's the knights/inquisitor who decided to call them by the words "corruption" and "curses", although there is probably good reason for that.

Well hey, maybe someone should tell Eschahn (I'm still not sure if I'm spelling that correctly, I seem to always lose track of names when the letter H is involved) that "blessings" aren't supposed to have ominous curse particles. Or be inflicted on people against their will and manipulate their thoughts and feelings. Even Melos, whose powers explicitly include mind control, has rules against using it on the unwilling. Although those rules may have been entirely self-imposed by her followers...

...Actually, I have a theory/headcanon, and I'm pretty sure at least the first part of it is true, and kind of hope the rest is as well. I think that Melos and Syra were originally enemies, and one of them was one of the "encroaching gods" who started spawning dungeons into the world. Ultimately, Melos was victorious, but instead of banishing Syra, she brainwashed her into her lover and allowed Syra's worshipers to thrive in the world as equals and allies to Melos's worshipers. (If Melos was the invader, she may have also brainwashed Syra's knights who tried to stop her into welcoming the new goddess and her followers. If Syra was the invader, her fate may foreshadow a "happy ending" for Eschahn even if the heroes are victorious.) Of course, Eschahn got word of this and felt left out. "Goddesses are corrupting each other and I wasn't invited? Even as a sex slave? Well, I think it's time to start a new game. Loser gets to be the winner's fucktoy."

 

[Elsiss Surana]

And then there are all the fun scenes we might have with the items themselves... Sure, we already have a cheat code to hypnotize the girls on command, but surely that won't stop us from having a scene with a hypnotic pendant, right? Especially if we want to have the girls hypnotize each other... This would, of course, open with a scene of them looting the pendant from the chest, holding it in front of themselves, and getting caught in a trance. When they wake up, the pendant is already in their pocket and they forget they've even looted anything... (...Logically, this would probably also result in a protag-sub scene at some point, which I would prefer to avoid, but eh.)

Gonna be honest, I would love to see something in the game where one girl is hypnotized in the dungeon to go after the others to hypnotize them. After all three are under, they go off to have their scene and the Inquisitor has a choice to break them out of their trance at any time or to let it happen and run it's course.

 

[Rosen King]

Gonna be honest, I would love to see something in the game where one girl is hypnotized in the dungeon to go after the others to hypnotize them. After all three are under, they go off to have their scene and the Inquisitor has a choice to break them out of their trance at any time or to let it happen and run it's course.

Well, there's already a curse that has a chance to cause them to spread a trance to another knight who tries to snap them out of the trance. I'm hoping we get a scene accompanying that interaction at some point. And there will hopefully be at least one scene at camp that has that curse as a requirement to trigger it.

 

[Elsiss Surana]

Well, there's already a curse that has a chance to cause them to spread a trance to another knight who tries to snap them out of the trance. I'm hoping we get a scene accompanying that interaction at some point. And there will hopefully be at least one scene at camp that has that curse as a requirement to trigger it.

How do you get that curse? I haven't seen it before.

 

[Rosen King]

How do you get that curse? I haven't seen it before.

The knight in question needs to have gotten the Trance status three times already, which is hard to do when I think there are only three sources of that status in the game right now, one is extremely rare, and I think one is only on lower floors. So you pretty much have to send them into a clock room and select "leave" without leaving so they don't disarm it. Then do that again every time they wake up from trance because their AI gets reset. When you do get the curse, it will have a blue "progress bar", so that'll help you know if you got the right one or not.

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Huh. Is it just a golden icon by default, or is this suggesting that the curse has turned into a golden version somehow? I noticed the gems are gold, too. And... in a different location? Does that mean something, or was the previous one just an outdated UI concept?

There's also the question of what that could be an icon for. If it's supposed to be gold, I would assume it's meant to be greed or something, but the icon looks more like some kind of wave or stream or--

 

[NRFB]

Any chance of this being released on Android too? The description and tags have me super interested but I can't play it so I don't know if the gameplay would exclude that but I did a quick google of the engine and it seems to have Android support. Obviously it's understandable if it's just too much effort to be worth it.

icollectsouls basically got it in one already, but yeah... So while Godot does have the ability to export to Android, I don't believe that the current UI would be great for phone play (mostly due to small text/clickable items, as I believe that ALMOST everything can be controlled via mouse). Trying to fix that would be one thing, but then there's all the extra work of supporting it (would take more time and almost certainly have more problems than supporting linux along with windows does).

So I don't hate the idea, but at this point the scale of how much work it would take to get any given port would likely be:
HTML5 - My very first export of the game was actually to HTML5. I hosted it privately on itch to a friend I was pitching the whole concept to. It did work, but they reported performance issues that I saw none of, which made me nervous about putting it out there publicly as it could cause bad first impressions that wouldn't even be my fault.
Mac OSX - Possible, but I don't know what the warning of "Notarization is not supported from this OS. The exported project will be blocked by Gatekeeper if it's downloaded from an unknown source" means. I also have no means of testing a mac version and am not going to buy one. (Also I have been told that the game works through wine so mac players could do that if they really want to)
Android - Explained above (also my phone is an old piece of garbage that hates running games so that wouldn't help either)
iOS - lmao. lol, even.

I kinda wish there was a way to spend a resource or more directly influence a specific h-event into happening, I've been trying to manipulate the Lucy/Elli scene into happening but I've just had zero luck so far getting it to pop. (Even got the Raine/Elli scene a second time, too.) I know some curses might help with that but hoping RNG gives something beneficial for my intentions isn't the smoothest process.

I was thinking about this earlier. Probably need to think through how sex partners are decided. Part of the thing that knights do while deciding on their plans for a camp time slot is check with the other knights to see who all would be willing to join their activity. Because they always check with everyone, in order for two characters to have sex without the third joining, that third would have to be unwilling/find their current activity more satisfying... Which would probably not happen terribly often especially in the case of a Raine/Lucette scene with no Elli.

But yeah, I get that even if you keep it to the bare minimum, there would still be that nagging feeling (and nagging players) saying, "If I'm gonna do this, there needs to be a scene for every boss, and at least one sex scene per knight per boss, and probably more just to fill it out." Even though none of that is actually required and you could do as much or little as you like with it.

Could also just set up the basics of such a system and say "you mod it in yourself if you want X monster in camp so badly" but then it's not like modding is set up yet either so it's all future concern stuff.

"Write content(ious political commentary)"

"Why Eschahn did nothing wrong"

I think that Melos and Syra were originally enemies,

At the very least, I believe one of Lucette's chats vaguely alludes to a "pre-conflict" something or other, but I don't believe I've gone very far into lore (some people already say the intro is too long) and don't know how far I will.

After all three are under, they go off to have their scene and the Inquisitor has a choice to break them out of their trance at any time or to let it happen and run it's course.

Because the Inquisitor has such a good track record of breaking the knights out of trances.

I'm hoping we get a scene accompanying that interaction at some point. And there will hopefully be at least one scene at camp that has that curse as a requirement to trigger it.

I hope so too.

There's also the question of what that could be an icon for. If it's supposed to be gold, I would assume it's meant to be greed or something, but the icon looks more like some kind of wave or stream or--

The curse icons that I made earlier on are a lot more abstractly styled I think. But yeah, it's a hand.

 

[Rosen King]

as I believe that ALMOST everything can be controlled via mouse

Oh yeah, is there a list of everything that can't? The only thing I know of it the ability to skip scenes, but that's a pretty dang important thing to not know exists, so... Yeah.

Because the Inquisitor has such a good track record of breaking the knights out of trances.

I mean, there's literally an "end trance" button. Of course, that's a trance induced by the Inquisitor, and they'd be a pretty crappy mind controller if they couldn't break the knight out of their own trance. ...Aaaand that would make for a hilarious and possibly sexy scene, if you suddenly find yourself unable to wake up the knight and have to Weekend at Bernie's your way through an encounter with another knight who wanted to speak with them, while the entranced knight is soaking up every offhand comment her compatriot makes.

At the very least, I believe one of Lucette's chats vaguely alludes to a "pre-conflict" something or other, but I don't believe I've gone very far into lore (some people already say the intro is too long) and don't know how far I will.

All of it. Give us *all* the lore. But, uh, maybe a more visible skip option for the people who don't want to read it.

Thinking further on my theory, it's probably WAAAY too early to be talking about something like this, but I think that would be a great premise for a prequel spinoff where the roles are reversed and you play as a Dungeon Lord who serves Melos and is trying to protect the dungeon from Syra's Knights Warriors (as well as some heretical witches who raid dungeons to steal the secrets of the gods) so Melos can gain a foothold in the world. In this era, Syra is a violent Goddess of War worshipped by savages, barbarians, and feudal lords, and Melos intends to overthrow her and usher in an age of wisdom. You're aided by the incredibly suspicious Herald of Eschahn, who tempts both you and Melos into brainwashing captured warriors into fighting on your side (and being your sex slaves), and offers her assistance with lewd traps and transformation magic to turn them into monster girls for your dungeon. In the end, when Syra is defeated, the Herald convinces Melos to brainwash Syra instead of destroying her. Melos agrees, having fallen in love with the other goddess's strength and believing that she could be a benevolent goddess if she just opens her mind and lets Melos guide her. The Herald then finally reveals her true motive, explaining that Eschahn is destined to become an enemy of the goddesses in the future, but she wants them to understand the proper way to deal with one's enemies. If they're all on the same page about that, then the coming conflict will have a happy ending no matter who is victorious.

 

[icollectsouls]

I was thinking about this earlier. Probably need to think through how sex partners are decided. Part of the thing that knights do while deciding on their plans for a camp time slot is check with the other knights to see who all would be willing to join their activity. Because they always check with everyone, in order for two characters to have sex without the third joining, that third would have to be unwilling/find their current activity more satisfying... Which would probably not happen terribly often especially in the case of a Raine/Lucette scene with no Elli.

I'm kind of conflicted, because on one hand, I like how "natural" the scenes can happen just as a result of accumulating lust, but on the other hand, having what's currently my favorite pornographic aspect to the game locked behind RNG doesn't really feel too good either.
Perhaps the best solution would be a way to use the mind control aspect to influence how the knights feel about each other, the player character, or even other potential candidates for scenes like the witch? Not sure how "lore-friendly" that'd be, but it'd allow the player character to have a little more influence on trying to get a specific scene to happen. So the player could increase two knight's interest/attraction towards each other, get the scene they want unlocked, then set up the mind control again for something to happen between a different pair.
Speaking of the mind control, how much do the different desires actually have an effect gameplay so far? I read something earlier in the thread about increased drive/desire for Pleasure and Community leading to more chances of yuri scenes happening, and I know that curses can affect the desires themselves, but I'm not sure if they're "implemented with more functionality planned" or if there's more purpose to them that I'm not getting.

 

[NRFB]

Oh yeah, is there a list of everything that can't? The only thing I know of it the ability to skip scenes, but that's a pretty dang important thing to not know exists, so... Yeah.

Actually, yeah that's the only thing that comes to mind as not having a mouse alternative.

Perhaps the best solution would be a way to use the mind control aspect to influence how the knights feel about each other, the player character, or even other potential candidates for scenes like the witch? Not sure how "lore-friendly" that'd be, but it'd allow the player character to have a little more influence on trying to get a specific scene to happen. So the player could increase two knight's interest/attraction towards each other, get the scene they want unlocked, then set up the mind control again for something to happen between a different pair.

Knights do already have a favorability rating towards the player, but not between each other. It's the kind of thing where I don't really have a strong sense of what it would do mechanically or how to best give the player a way to manage it, so I haven't added it.

Speaking of the mind control, how much do the different desires actually have an effect gameplay so far? I read something earlier in the thread about increased drive/desire for Pleasure and Community leading to more chances of yuri scenes happening, and I know that curses can affect the desires themselves, but I'm not sure if they're "implemented with more functionality planned" or if there's more purpose to them that I'm not getting.

Even before desires were visible, camp activities were always determined using them. It's still somewhat random but basically at the start of a time slot, an ally will take all of their desires and pick one to try and satisfy (with bias toward desires that have a higher current value), then look at all activities that are available and pick one that will satisfy that desire (with bias toward activities that satisfy their planned desire more). Then they determine if they want to do the activity alone or as part of a group (if the activity allows/disallows grouping), where in camp they can do the activity (and if that location matches with their desired social state or if they have alternatives/are willing to compromise, etc), and who they are doing the activity with if applicable.

So everything done in camp is technically random (other than the characters having static sleep schedules), but is still based off of the character's desires. The sex activity satisfies Pleasure and Community (but mostly pleasure), so having those desires be higher will mean more sex in camp. It incidentally also means more bathing, talking, and playing games.

Desires also determine many of what skills/curses are available to a character, which will be more obvious in the coming update. There will probably end up being even more effects from desires later too, since I think it's a pretty interesting system that a lot can be done with.