VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.17.2] [Runey]

[Harem Trooper]

Damn, I maxed the content of Ellen. I know its just 0.13 right now but do we know if more content of her are planned ?

 

[TheDevian]

Well, you can get away with it anywhere tbh. I consider murder a crime no matter where it is, whether someone gets away with it or not. Even where weird laws apply murder is generally frowned upon.

That is my point, while something might not be illegal somewhere, like some dictator abusing their people, we still consider it a crime against humanity or whatever you want to call it, because we find it morally reprehensible.

Damn, I maxed the content of Ellen. I know its just 0.13 right now but do we know if more content of her are planned ?

Not sure about this next update per say, but I am sure she will get more content in the future. She is just not a main character, so is not a primary focus.

 

[alex2011]

is there currently anyway to get this uncompressed? I'm sat on a 200MB connection and have 4 TB of disk space free, and I'm genuinely curious to see the game uncompressed.

heck, I've sat through some crazy/silly downloads for small improvements (looking at you 90GB FFXIII FMV mod) so even if it was torrented I'd be down for it

Not currently, but there is an atom sized chance we might be able to convince Runey to allow it.

Yup, though there can be levels of both.
Yeah, but the odds are so low, you might as well not consider it. Just like if you jump off a skyscraper, there is a chance you might not die, but odds are not in your favor.
Yeah, but he is not there for murder, he was exerting freedom of the press. Not quite the same thing.
Making someone do what they were doing to others seems like justice to me. I am tired of saying this, pushing someone for committing atrocities is not the same things as committing atrocities. By your logic, having jails is the same things as death camps, it's pretty out there.
It doesn't matter what you tell them. If the person you loved told you to let someone kill them, would you listen to them, or would your instincts kick in, and you do something to try to stop it, even if it kills you?
You are the one who forced that choice. If you had not gone on a killing spree, they would not be in that position, and they would never have been forced to do that. You forced their hand, because you know what they are going to do, and you know nothing you say is going to stop it. You know this, and you still made that choice. That is 100% on you.
Exactly, but we have our standards of morality, which at least to us, are higher than laws by any government. We all have laws that we consider just and unjust.
Yup, but most governments tend to work together, and the one that doesn't, is not overly friendly...
Yes, yes he can, because if not for him making a stupid choice, they would not have had to make that choice, and they would not have had to get killed because you got them into a no win situation.

As the leader, you are always responsible for what happens under your command, and you have to think about every end result. This again, started with you proudly saying how they would jump in to defend you against the cops and military. You can't then say it's not your fault. Everything you do has consequences, and it is on you what your people do because of your choices. Butterfly effect and all that.

It's one thing if we are talking about something 30 steps down the chain, but we are talking about direct results of your actions. This is the same defense of a mafia boss who says, 'I didn't tell them to kill the guy, I just said I wouldn't be upset if he had an accident. It's not my fault. I didn't tell them to do it.'
It's not the government's fault that you chose attempted murder as your M.O. That is all on you.
Demolishing a building, is not going to cause much collateral damage, we are not close to other buildings, this isn't downtown.
You chose to lead your followers into a no win situation, they are not the ones making that choice, you are. You are the leader, telling them not to try to help the love of their life is like telling them not to breathe. You know damn well they are not going to follow that order, and you are proud of that fact when you started that line of discussion. It is all you, and always will be, no matter how you try to rationalize it. Everything that happens because of what you do, is your fault. They are just defending themselves and their loved ones from the hell that your brought to their door. They can't run, they can't get away, they have no choice. If you die, and they are lucky, they get put back in the system to find a master who might even be worse.
The resistance isn't going anywhere, it's just you. The rest of the resistance is not going to support your hotheaded bullshit, you are just going to make things worse, not help anyone. This is about revenge, not about saving the elves. If you cared about the elves, you would be doing what is going to actually help, and not just killing people who piss you off.
Almost every government has a similar group, or several. The US has quite a few. If they didn't have one, they would not have made it this far.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight, mr super ninja is going to sneak passed secret service, like a ghost, and then sneak out with a government official while the guards are right there. Dude, what the hell kind of movies are you watching? Even using the fairies, you are not going to make it, they can't keep you invis that long, if at all at your size, never mind two people, they don't have the crystals, and even if they did, the government has infravision. They can see you anyway. There is less than no way you could pull this off with what we have to work with now, and even if you did, that would just make it worse, not better. You are not going to escape from the government if you go after Cornwall, and killing one nurse is not going to help anyone in the big picture.

You can't strike after the room is clear, because you can't get in there, it's guarded. They check it before he goes in, and stand guard while he is in there, until he is done. They are not going to leave you a way in. What do you think you can do?

There is no way you can do this, that is not a suicide mission. They are not going to let you get out of the country, and even if you manage, they will send people after you. Violence is not the answer, besides, it's like a hydra, take one head out, and another will take it's place. That is why I keep saying, we need a ground up campaign, there is no quick solution. You can't just kill one guy and fix the problem, especially one of the ones who is helping. Most would assume it is his pro elf rights stance that got him killed anyway. He is far more in favor of it than most in his position. It would still be legal to rape and abuse elves worse if not for him.


I doubt anyone has room to host it anywhere.

Depends on the person being the sub, those who are typically dominant, I could definitely see the nurse fitting that description, may not enjoy being the one dominated.

I can agree the odds are not good, but the odds of successful revenge never are when that revenge goes against the system.

That was a general example of diplomatic asylum, I just didn't want to search for some real life case of a murderer somehow getting diplomatic asylum when I had a perfectly good example of the term in use even if it wasn't granted to a murderer in that case.

No, jails and death camps are not the same. What the MC would be doing is punishing someone who committed and/or enabled an atrocity.

That's correct, they are going to defend the MC no matter what is said unless they are physically unable. There are three ways that can happen, they get tied up out of the way to prevent them from moving, the MC or another girl disables them through injury so that they cannot move to do what they would do, or the MC or another girl kills them so they cannot move to do what they would do. Those last two things I REALLY don't want to happen nor would I be okay with tying an innocent person up outside of sex play. There is absolutely no scenario where the hotel gets raided with all inhabitants still inside and the girls do not move to defend the MC, the only way to avoid it would be to get out before the raid. The girls are too deep in affection to not move in the MC's defense at this point, especially Lin and Ashley. You're right, it would absolutely be instinct, the MC is not their instincts, he is only the target of that specific instinct. The MC did not force the choice, the girls' instincts did. There is no killing spree, those get taken down A LOT faster, this is just two people albeit one of them being important. By the same logic of the next part, if Syl'anar hadn't established slavery, the girls would never have had to defend the MC. it is 100% on Syl'anar.

And the laws of Syl'anar would be unjust.

Not all of them, though. Some governments even refuse to spite the other.

If not for Syl'anar making a stupid choice, none of this would happen. Cornwall and the nurse would not do things to the elves, or Maria, and everyone would be fine. That's not what happened, though.

The Syl'anar government forced the MC's hand, it didn't have to be this way, but they did something that could have gotten Maria killed in a much worse way than anything suggested.

Using a tank isn't simple demolition, if that shell misses or goes through the hotel, because shells typically do when going through an unarmored target, it is going to fly quite a ways before it then explodes. Both the impact and the explosion resulting in the collateral damage. It doesn't have to be downtown to risk innocent lives, there could be a population surrounding the hotel even outside of a downtown area.

Syl'anar chose to force the MC and the harem into a no win scenario. The MC is simply making the choice available to him, given to him by Syl'anar themselves. Nobody had to get hurt, but Maria very easily could have by Syl'anar's decision to strip her of her assets.

The MC and his harem ARE the resistance, the girls would follow him anywhere, including to set up a new base to fight from. Recruiting can be done after that to bolster resistance forces. This would help the elves by freeing them through the use of force. It isn't as peaceful or eloquent as the political route, but it gets the job done even if it does cost resistance and pro-slave lives.

I'm aware of that in the real world, I actually did a bit of research out of curiosity just to see how expansive the intelligence community is. What I am not aware of is this being the case in Syl'anar.

Like I said, waiting until tech that can emulate the powers of the fairies is an option and this would be more efficient and capable than the actual fairies. Also, air vents and windows are a thing and there's no way they are going as far as checking the air vents. Then there's the prospect of starting a war if they even try to go after the MC in a different area not already administrated by Syl'anar.

As for hosting the game uncompressed, there is the torrent option.

Not quite, you're subject to the laws of your country or your victim's country. Or whichever country flag your ship is sailing, or all of the above.

So it's true there are no specific laws of the high seas but you can't just kill everyone on the cruise ship and sail on happy ever after.

Yeah, but there is a reason a ton of crime happens out there. You can quite easily dump a body.

The point is, that there are places where certain laws don't apply, but we would still consider those actions to be a crime due to our moral compass, and there are laws in places that we might consider immoral or even criminal.

Or international law, which can be worse to be subject to at times.

Well, you can get away with it anywhere tbh. I consider murder a crime no matter where it is, whether someone gets away with it or not. Even where weird laws apply murder is generally frowned upon.

I'm definitely staying away from the sea.

Indeed, murder doesn't change based on where you are or why you do it, it is still murder and ALL countries consider it a crime not to mention the international community itself as a combined body.

That is my point, while something might not be illegal somewhere, like some dictator abusing their people, we still consider it a crime against humanity or whatever you want to call it, because we find it morally reprehensible.

Not sure about this next update per say, but I am sure she will get more content in the future. She is just not a main character, so is not a primary focus.

Exactly, including slavery and the processes that go with it, including stripping a slave of their assets so that, if they somehow manage to escape going to a master, they starve to death.

I have no doubt Ellen will get more with how early we are in development.

 

[TheDevian]

Depends on the person being the sub, those who are typically dominant, I could definitely see the nurse fitting that description, may not enjoy being the one dominated.

It's hard to say, many people hide their kinks really well, and usually the most controlling in public, like to be controlled in private.

I can agree the odds are not good, but the odds of successful revenge never are when that revenge goes against the system.

I prefer to try plans that have a good chance to work, not ones that are doomed to failure.

That was a general example of diplomatic asylum, I just didn't want to search for some real life case of a murderer somehow getting diplomatic asylum when I had a perfectly good example of the term in use even if it wasn't granted to a murderer in that case.

If you kill someone like Cornwall, the odds of getting asylum are almost nonexistent. The only country that would be happy about that, would be ...maaaaybe the high elf queen, and she isn't your biggest fan atm, and is not likely to grant asylum if it means that people would be hunting for you. It's not like her saying they can't come in would do anything.

No, jails and death camps are not the same. What the MC would be doing is punishing someone who committed and/or enabled an atrocity.

Yes, punishing, sure, but you are talking about killing. For a punishment to be effective, they have to learn from it. Can't learn anything if you are dead.

That's correct, they are going to defend the MC no matter what is said unless they are physically unable. There are three ways that can happen, they get tied up out of the way to prevent them from moving, the MC or another girl disables them through injury so that they cannot move to do what they would do, or the MC or another girl kills them so they cannot move to do what they would do. Those last two things I REALLY don't want to happen nor would I be okay with tying an innocent person up outside of sex play. There is absolutely no scenario where the hotel gets raided with all inhabitants still inside and the girls do not move to defend the MC, the only way to avoid it would be to get out before the raid. The girls are too deep in affection to not move in the MC's defense at this point, especially Lin and Ashley. You're right, it would absolutely be instinct, the MC is not their instincts, he is only the target of that specific instinct. The MC did not force the choice, the girls' instincts did. There is no killing spree, those get taken down A LOT faster, this is just two people albeit one of them being important. By the same logic of the next part, if Syl'anar hadn't established slavery, the girls would never have had to defend the MC. it is 100% on Syl'anar.

That is exactly what would happen though, if you try this.
Exactly, so if you bring that down on them, it is all your fault, not theirs for defending you.

And the laws of Syl'anar would be unjust.

So is murder.

Not all of them, though. Some governments even refuse to spite the other.

Yup, but not many will support a murder. You would need a good reason, revenge is not good enough.

If not for Syl'anar making a stupid choice, none of this would happen. Cornwall and the nurse would not do things to the elves, or Maria, and everyone would be fine. That's not what happened, though.

But that is not the system we are in. We can try to change the system, or we can be idiots and try to kill people.

The Syl'anar government forced the MC's hand, it didn't have to be this way, but they did something that could have gotten Maria killed in a much worse way than anything suggested.

No, no one forced anything. Maria didn't get killed, she is there, safe and sound. Nothing happened that can't be fixed. The only excuse for murder is self defense, and this is not that by any definition.

Using a tank isn't simple demolition, if that shell misses or goes through the hotel, because shells typically do when going through an unarmored target, it is going to fly quite a ways before it then explodes. Both the impact and the explosion resulting in the collateral damage. It doesn't have to be downtown to risk innocent lives, there could be a population surrounding the hotel even outside of a downtown area.

So what?
A) they are not close to another building. and
B) That happens all the time. One case here, the cops broke into a woman's apartment, without knocking, and shot her in bed, while she was sleeping. They got into more trouble for missing, and one shot going into a neighbor's apartment, than for killing an innocent woman.

Syl'anar chose to force the MC and the harem into a no win scenario. The MC is simply making the choice available to him, given to him by Syl'anar themselves. Nobody had to get hurt, but Maria very easily could have by Syl'anar's decision to strip her of her assets.

No, there are thousands of ways to win, you are choosing to go the worst possible route, because you are butt hurt over Maria's last event.

The MC and his harem ARE the resistance, the girls would follow him anywhere, including to set up a new base to fight from. Recruiting can be done after that to bolster resistance forces. This would help the elves by freeing them through the use of force. It isn't as peaceful or eloquent as the political route, but it gets the job done even if it does cost resistance and pro-slave lives.

No, you are a small part of it. The MC is just the enabler, Lin is the one leading this thing, not the player.

I'm aware of that in the real world, I actually did a bit of research out of curiosity just to see how expansive the intelligence community is. What I am not aware of is this being the case in Syl'anar.

It is the case in every industrialized nation. They would not have survived this long if they did not.

Like I said, waiting until tech that can emulate the powers of the fairies is an option and this would be more efficient and capable than the actual fairies. Also, air vents and windows are a thing and there's no way they are going as far as checking the air vents. Then there's the prospect of starting a war if they even try to go after the MC in a different area not already administrated by Syl'anar.

Most air vents are not large enough for people to crawl through, no matter what movies want you to think. Any place that has real security, like a somewhere their leaders live and work, are not going to be some place you can just sneak into. No matter how many movies you watch.
Yeah, that is good, keep waiting, maybe you will calm down by then. lol

Indeed, murder doesn't change based on where you are or why you do it, it is still murder and ALL countries consider it a crime not to mention the international community itself as a combined body.

And yet, in some countries, they either don't have laws about it, or their leaders kill whoever they want without care.

Exactly, including slavery and the processes that go with it, including stripping a slave of their assets so that, if they somehow manage to escape going to a master, they starve to death.

Yup, but killing off the people who are making it better, is not the way to end that.

 

[freedom.call]

That is my point, while something might not be illegal somewhere, like some dictator abusing their people, we still consider it a crime against humanity or whatever you want to call it, because we find it morally reprehensible.

I don't really know what we're discussing, or why. For me a criminal act/deed is the same, regardless of law. Most of what we call crimes are illegal everywhere, punishment or lack thereof varies of course.

Dictators generally make their own 'laws' and they're not welcome in my house!

My summary of the very long debate is....slavery bad, bondage not so bad.

 

[Tavi13]

I don't really know what we're discussing, or why. For me a criminal act/deed is the same, regardless of law. Most of what we call crimes are illegal everywhere, punishment or lack thereof varies of course.

It is only a criminal act if there is evidence of a crime. Otherwise it is just another missing person file that may, or may not, be due to the actions of someone with questionable morals

 

[freedom.call]

It is only a criminal act if there is evidence of a crime. Otherwise it is just another missing person file that may, or may not, be due to the actions of someone with questionable morals

I have to disagree, whatever the law says is a criminal act is a criminal act.

 

[DigDug69]

I have to disagree, whatever the law says is a criminal act is a criminal act.

Unless you are rich enough to hire a dream team of lawyers that can get you out of legal trouble.

 

[freedom.call]

Unless you are rich enough to hire a dream team of lawyers that can get you out of legal trouble.

I never leave home without them.

 

[TheDevian]

Unless you are rich enough to hire a dream team of lawyers that can get you out of legal trouble.

Reminds me of an old game of Vampire the Masquerade, had a team of 8 partnered lawyers on permanent retainer. ...Was handy. Pretty much funded their whole law firm.

My summary of the very long debate is....slavery bad, bondage not so bad.

Mmmmmmmm.... Bondage.
Hey, look, it's Felicity's new dungeon event....

Spoiler

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[Musickplayer]

do you know games good like in art, story and sex scenes
PS this the best game i know

 

[dvstt]

can anyone do compresed?

 

[alex2011]

It's hard to say, many people hide their kinks really well, and usually the most controlling in public, like to be controlled in private.
I prefer to try plans that have a good chance to work, not ones that are doomed to failure.
If you kill someone like Cornwall, the odds of getting asylum are almost nonexistent. The only country that would be happy about that, would be ...maaaaybe the high elf queen, and she isn't your biggest fan atm, and is not likely to grant asylum if it means that people would be hunting for you. It's not like her saying they can't come in would do anything.
Yes, punishing, sure, but you are talking about killing. For a punishment to be effective, they have to learn from it. Can't learn anything if you are dead.
That is exactly what would happen though, if you try this.
Exactly, so if you bring that down on them, it is all your fault, not theirs for defending you.
So is murder.
Yup, but not many will support a murder. You would need a good reason, revenge is not good enough.
But that is not the system we are in. We can try to change the system, or we can be idiots and try to kill people.
No, no one forced anything. Maria didn't get killed, she is there, safe and sound. Nothing happened that can't be fixed. The only excuse for murder is self defense, and this is not that by any definition.
So what?
A) they are not close to another building. and
B) That happens all the time. One case here, the cops broke into a woman's apartment, without knocking, and shot her in bed, while she was sleeping. They got into more trouble for missing, and one shot going into a neighbor's apartment, than for killing an innocent woman.
No, there are thousands of ways to win, you are choosing to go the worst possible route, because you are butt hurt over Maria's last event.
No, you are a small part of it. The MC is just the enabler, Lin is the one leading this thing, not the player.
It is the case in every industrialized nation. They would not have survived this long if they did not.
Most air vents are not large enough for people to crawl through, no matter what movies want you to think. Any place that has real security, like a somewhere their leaders live and work, are not going to be some place you can just sneak into. No matter how many movies you watch.
Yeah, that is good, keep waiting, maybe you will calm down by then. lol
And yet, in some countries, they either don't have laws about it, or their leaders kill whoever they want without care.
Yup, but killing off the people who are making it better, is not the way to end that.

That is true, especially ones with a...less accepted kink like me. No, nothing to do with this, the kind that would get me labeled in real life even if my variant is only directed at fake characters. Again true on the second part, I have seen this portrayed in fiction, but have yet to see it in real life, though I have heard it.

Unfortunately, plans that have a good chance work in this kind of situation are in short supply, that's why I tend to go for plans that will at least take opposing players off the board. However, even this revenge thing is not a plan I would normally consider, Cornwall and the nurse didn't just push the MC's buttons in the wrong way, they pushed mine. One of the biggest features I like to stress about this game and Lessons in Love, and probably the absolute biggest compliment I can give both Selebus and Runey, are that they both got through to me on a very deep level even when I was trying to block out any emotional connection with the logic that it is just a game. First Lessons in Love managed to bust right through that barrier, then came Harem Hotel. When Maria's assets got stripped away and I saw the look on her face staring at her computer screen, I freaking lost it, it took everything I had to not actually yell obscenities at Cornwall for it.

Assuming word gets out, yes, but the plan is to get out and seek asylum or a place without an extradition treaty before that happens. Even if word gets out before a place like that is found, I do have a contingency to stay mobile so that the MC cannot be found so easily. In that case, and this is the absolute worst case scenario where the MC is on the run, the elves once again have Syl'anar to thank for screwing them over. I hadn't even considered going to the High Elves, maybe getting rid of Cornwall, being such a huge step, would turn the situation with her around. She doesn't like him, so someone getting rid of him would be of benefit to her, the MC would be doing her a favor. As for what happens if she says they cannot enter, they being Syl'anar forces, if a ruler says you can't come in and you do it anyway, it's war. I don't think Syl'anar is stupid enough to risk war with the freaking High Elves, that would be one hell of a mistake.

Death serves as a punishment in some countries and my favorite example, the Nuremberg trials, used death pretty often. It is a punishment used for people deemed unable to learn the lesson that a lesser punishment would teach. The way I see it, these two are some of the least capable of learning the lesson we want to teach of all of the pro-slave population. Seeing it this way is not exclusive to this scenario, either. I took into consideration the nurse's apparent enjoyment of enslaving Maria as well as Cornwall's not having done anything since the reforms to further improve the situation, granted his hands are tied unless he wants to sacrifice his office while the nurse's are not.

Except the MC tells them in multiple scenarios to stand down and give in peacefully and even intends to do it himself. No fight is intended, but the girls move anyway as if he was to be harmed when all he is doing is giving in. Therefore, the only scenario where they don't defend him is one where they all get out before the hotel is raided.

So is slavery, and essentially sentencing a girl to starve to death.

That is, if they find out before we are granted protections.

Unfortunately, that is the system they are in.

Could have gotten, meaning it was avoided. She's only safe because she was in the MC's care when it happened. Had Maria been alone at the time, I have zero doubt she would have starved.

They got in more trouble internally from their bosses, I'm talking about the public outrage. Going with the same thing, cop cases I mean, the public doesn't take too kindly to innocent people being killed, hence the movements that formed.

One of those ways is to eliminate all pro-slave opposition...by force or otherwise. I'm perfectly fine with that idea as well, like I said, I was holding back when I limited it to Cornwall and that nurse.

She is and she is a member of the harem. Where the harem goes, the resistance goes, and where the MC goes, the harem goes. She'd literally follow him into hell itself and the resistance would follow her, being its leading figure.

That is true of the real world, we don't know if it is in Syl'anar.

My rage is eternal at these levels, there is no calming down until justice is served, even if it is vigilante justice instead of real justice and even if I would have to wait decades of real time for the day when we see whatever resolution Runey decides for the perpetrators of these crimes against the Elven race.

Those are typically totalitarian countries that do that and the second part plays into the first. If they had laws about it, dear leader couldn't just kill anyone they want because then they would have to be held to the same standard set in the law as the people.

The MC wouldn't be killing off anyone making it better, he would have to kill resistance members to do that. Cornwall did one thing that made any, and only very slight, improvement and only to keep his office, the nurse did literally nothing to make the situation better and she was shown apparently actively enjoying an act that perpetuates the situation as it is. I can at least give Cornwall minor credit for the reforms, but the nurse has literally nothing to credit her on in her defense.

do you know games good like in art, story and sex scenes
PS this the best game i know

For good story, there aren't many due to how porn games usually just focus on the sex part. However, there is Lessons in Love, big warning that it does fall into the Denpa genre of horror games, but if you've played Doki Doki Literature Club and like that, you might like Lessons in Love.

can anyone do compresed?

This is compressed, uncompressed would be around 70 to 80 GB.

 

[TheDevian]

That is true, especially ones with a...less accepted kink like me. No, nothing to do with this, the kind that would get me labeled in real life even if my variant is only directed at fake characters. Again true on the second part, I have seen this portrayed in fiction, but have yet to see it in real life, though I have heard it.

The more repressed someone is... We see it all the time. (More so when you work in the industry).

Unfortunately, plans that have a good chance work in this kind of situation are in short supply, that's why I tend to go for plans that will at least take opposing players off the board. However, even this revenge thing is not a plan I would normally consider, Cornwall and the nurse didn't just push the MC's buttons in the wrong way, they pushed mine. One of the biggest features I like to stress about this game and Lessons in Love, and probably the absolute biggest compliment I can give both Selebus and Runey, are that they both got through to me on a very deep level even when I was trying to block out any emotional connection with the logic that it is just a game. First Lessons in Love managed to bust right through that barrier, then came Harem Hotel. When Maria's assets got stripped away and I saw the look on her face staring at her computer screen, I freaking lost it, it took everything I had to not actually yell obscenities at Cornwall for it.

I spent weeks detailing a lot of them the last conversation we had about this.
Maybe I am unique here, but I have been expecting that event forever, so it didn't surprise me at all, only the level of hate from the cuntrag caught me a bit off guard, and I knew there was no way we would let her get away. Hell, if he had not acted like a rage addict when it happened, he could have just asked Cornwall's people to find her for him, and saved all the stress. But no, he had to act like a fucking moron and rage out on the two people who could have helped him.

Assuming word gets out, yes, but the plan is to get out and seek asylum or a place without an extradition treaty before that happens. Even if word gets out before a place like that is found, I do have a contingency to stay mobile so that the MC cannot be found so easily. In that case, and this is the absolute worst case scenario where the MC is on the run, the elves once again have Syl'anar to thank for screwing them over. I hadn't even considered going to the High Elves, maybe getting rid of Cornwall, being such a huge step, would turn the situation with her around. She doesn't like him, so someone getting rid of him would be of benefit to her, the MC would be doing her a favor. As for what happens if she says they cannot enter, they being Syl'anar forces, if a ruler says you can't come in and you do it anyway, it's war. I don't think Syl'anar is stupid enough to risk war with the freaking High Elves, that would be one hell of a mistake.

Yeah, but you can't just sneak out of a country, once you start knocking off heads of state. Not without a lot of backing. You are not going to have an easy time hiding with a dozen or more people. Especially with their version of the FBI on your ass. You would already need a deal with one of those governments, and it is unlikely that one of them would be willing to go to war to help some kid and his girlfriends, who tried to assassinate officials.

Death serves as a punishment in some countries and my favorite example, the Nuremberg trials, used death pretty often. It is a punishment used for people deemed unable to learn the lesson that a lesser punishment would teach. The way I see it, these two are some of the least capable of learning the lesson we want to teach of all of the pro-slave population. Seeing it this way is not exclusive to this scenario, either. I took into consideration the nurse's apparent enjoyment of enslaving Maria as well as Cornwall's not having done anything since the reforms to further improve the situation, granted his hands are tied unless he wants to sacrifice his office while the nurse's are not.

Yes, but it is less of a deterrent than almost any other reasonable punishment. Death is a quick and easy out, especially if you believe in an afterlife. There have been many studies on this, the death penalty is a bad thing all the way around, and it is all about revenge, not justice.

Except the MC tells them in multiple scenarios to stand down and give in peacefully and even intends to do it himself. No fight is intended, but the girls move anyway as if he was to be harmed when all he is doing is giving in. Therefore, the only scenario where they don't defend him is one where they all get out before the hotel is raided.

Well, again, this was you who said they would defend you, while you are defiantly resisting. You are not going to get away after trying to kill a head of state. I have seen your plans, they are not that good. lol

So is slavery, and essentially sentencing a girl to starve to death.

Yes, and the later is illegal now, thanks to Cornwall.

That is, if they find out before we are granted protections.

They will find out, before you get even close to him. The MC is no spy/assassin, and his skills lie in other areas.

Could have gotten, meaning it was avoided. She's only safe because she was in the MC's care when it happened. Had Maria been alone at the time, I have zero doubt she would have starved.

Yes, but she is. There is no excuse to kill or torture anyone.

They got in more trouble internally from their bosses, I'm talking about the public outrage. Going with the same thing, cop cases I mean, the public doesn't take too kindly to innocent people being killed, hence the movements that formed.

HAhahahahah... They don't give a shit, they get mad, sometimes, for a few days, then something else happen, they forget about it, and everything goes back to normal. If they cared, those cops would not get to keep their jobs. Even the rare occasions when they do get fired, they just go to another precinct, because their files are locked, and no one can see them, so they can just pretend it never happened. There is a reason you can't get accurate statistics on police shootings.

One of those ways is to eliminate all pro-slave opposition...by force or otherwise. I'm perfectly fine with that idea as well, like I said, I was holding back when I limited it to Cornwall and that nurse.

Yeah, one small team can't take out every pro slavery person in the country, it's been tried with far larger armies than yours. Several times. You would be lucky to get the nurse, beyond that, this plan just gets more and more untenable.

She is and she is a member of the harem. Where the harem goes, the resistance goes, and where the MC goes, the harem goes. She'd literally follow him into hell itself and the resistance would follow her, being its leading figure.

Why would you force that though? There are so many better ways to go, that let you stay put, and not change the name of the game. lol

That is true of the real world, we don't know if it is in Syl'anar.

Yeah, assuming I am replying to the right thing any more, it is the only way a country can survive. No one can have a functioning government in an industrial nation, and not have an intelligence agency. Intelligence is an crucial element of any functioning government.

My rage is eternal at these levels, there is no calming down until justice is served, even if it is vigilante justice instead of real justice and even if I would have to wait decades of real time for the day when we see whatever resolution Runey decides for the perpetrators of these crimes against the Elven race.

Your rage is misplaced, and you are taking it out in the worst possible way. Being a fool is not going to save anyone. It's just going to get you and the girls in trouble.

Those are typically totalitarian countries that do that and the second part plays into the first. If they had laws about it, dear leader couldn't just kill anyone they want because then they would have to be held to the same standard set in the law as the people.

Some don't have those laws, hell, some barely have laws at all, or they do and their leaders don't care about them, because no one can do anything to them.

The MC wouldn't be killing off anyone making it better, he would have to kill resistance members to do that. Cornwall did one thing that made any, and only very slight, improvement and only to keep his office, the nurse did literally nothing to make the situation better and she was shown apparently actively enjoying an act that perpetuates the situation as it is. I can at least give Cornwall minor credit for the reforms, but the nurse has literally nothing to credit her on in her defense.

He did many things, and is working on doing more. He granted them many rights, it is a trial run, a test, if it goes well, then they will expand. He is doing this, not to keep his job, but at the risk of his job, because he is going against what is considered 'normal'. He is doing this because people like K-dad and Autumn's dad are convincing him to try another way, not because the population wants it, and that goes even further if you do well in the contest, you showed him there can be another way, and he starts thinking about that.

Going to kill every Karen then?

 

[alex2011]

The more repressed someone is... We see it all the time. (More so when you work in the industry).
I spent weeks detailing a lot of them the last conversation we had about this.
Maybe I am unique here, but I have been expecting that event forever, so it didn't surprise me at all, only the level of hate from the cuntrag caught me a bit off guard, and I knew there was no way we would let her get away. Hell, if he had not acted like a rage addict when it happened, he could have just asked Cornwall's people to find her for him, and saved all the stress. But no, he had to act like a fucking moron and rage out on the two people who could have helped him.
Yeah, but you can't just sneak out of a country, once you start knocking off heads of state. Not without a lot of backing. You are not going to have an easy time hiding with a dozen or more people. Especially with their version of the FBI on your ass. You would already need a deal with one of those governments, and it is unlikely that one of them would be willing to go to war to help some kid and his girlfriends, who tried to assassinate officials.
Yes, but it is less of a deterrent than almost any other reasonable punishment. Death is a quick and easy out, especially if you believe in an afterlife. There have been many studies on this, the death penalty is a bad thing all the way around, and it is all about revenge, not justice.
Well, again, this was you who said they would defend you, while you are defiantly resisting. You are not going to get away after trying to kill a head of state. I have seen your plans, they are not that good. lol
Yes, and the later is illegal now, thanks to Cornwall.
They will find out, before you get even close to him. The MC is no spy/assassin, and his skills lie in other areas.
Yes, but she is. There is no excuse to kill or torture anyone.
HAhahahahah... They don't give a shit, they get mad, sometimes, for a few days, then something else happen, they forget about it, and everything goes back to normal. If they cared, those cops would not get to keep their jobs. Even the rare occasions when they do get fired, they just go to another precinct, because their files are locked, and no one can see them, so they can just pretend it never happened. There is a reason you can't get accurate statistics on police shootings.
Yeah, one small team can't take out every pro slavery person in the country, it's been tried with far larger armies than yours. Several times. You would be lucky to get the nurse, beyond that, this plan just gets more and more untenable.
Why would you force that though? There are so many better ways to go, that let you stay put, and not change the name of the game. lol
Yeah, assuming I am replying to the right thing any more, it is the only way a country can survive. No one can have a functioning government in an industrial nation, and not have an intelligence agency. Intelligence is an crucial element of any functioning government.
Your rage is misplaced, and you are taking it out in the worst possible way. Being a fool is not going to save anyone. It's just going to get you and the girls in trouble.
Some don't have those laws, hell, some barely have laws at all, or they do and their leaders don't care about them, because no one can do anything to them.
He did many things, and is working on doing more. He granted them many rights, it is a trial run, a test, if it goes well, then they will expand. He is doing this, not to keep his job, but at the risk of his job, because he is going against what is considered 'normal'. He is doing this because people like K-dad and Autumn's dad are convincing him to try another way, not because the population wants it, and that goes even further if you do well in the contest, you showed him there can be another way, and he starts thinking about that.

Going to kill every Karen then?

I may just have not noticed, I tend to keep focused on what I'm doing.

I took those into account, they just don't go far enough in this specific case. They do fine for reeducation and bettering the situation for the elves to where it needs to end up, but there is a major flaw with those plans. They, the perpetrators, get treated as if nothing happened caused by them. Teaching a lesson is fine for those who just stood there and did nothing and those plans do that very well, not to mention reaching a wider audience, but they don't punish for misdeeds of the past that were apparently fully intentional. What has already been done cannot be forgiven and must have some form of punishment equivalent to the offense committed. A mistake, an accident, would be one thing, but this was done intentionally on multiple levels.

No need to sneak, just get out as normal before Syl'anar starts treating it less as a missing person who might still be alive and more as a person who was kidnapped and murdered out of revenge. Actually, sneaking out of the country when the alarm hasn't yet been raised will do the opposite, drawing more attention to the MC and the harem. As far as war, actually, they probably would if Syl'anar trespassed. Even if not to actively defend the MC and his harem, to retaliate against what they could call an invasion. That could then serve as further distraction for the MC and his harem to slip further into the shadows elsewhere while Syl'anar has their hands full with the war they just instigated.

Some people don't see it that way, which is what I usually get when arguing against death for a real life convict whose crimes deserve worse. This is why it serves as a better ultimate punishment in vigilante justice than in true justice. True justice is meant to reform the convict or to punish them. vigilante justice is entirely revenge based and the ultimate way to get revenge is to strip everything away.

No, it is them who decided to defend the MC when he was giving himself up, resulting in their deaths. It is Syl'anar who decided to raid and even cause that instinct to trigger in the first place. Remember what I said in the first sentence " Except the MC tells them in multiple scenarios to stand down and give in peacefully and even intends to do it himself." The only resistance would be from the girls, not even the MC is fighting, they just move without thinking, perceiving danger to the MC, which gets them killed. As long as there is a raid occurring, the girls are guaranteed to die, even if the MC lays down his weapons and surrenders the second the door is busted down. This is why the only solution is to get out while the alarm isn't raised, which I admit won't be long even with the gap between Cornwall or the nurse being missed and the first missing person report.

Illegal and still very much a threat, starvation won't stop because Cornwall told it to. They took away the assets that would have enabled her to keep starvation from happening, there is no other path now in a scenario where she didn't have the MC to rely on. Even if unintended, it was still Syl'anar's fault that she had no means to keep starvation from happening in a scenario where she did not have the MC or a master.

The MC is not, but there are capable combatants in his harem who, while not specifically assassins, could pull sneak attacks. Unlike using guerilla tactics in response to a raid on the hotel, one man should not be a problem to get rid of from the shadows and then disappear, whether that means kill on the spot or kidnap, though I admit the latter would be more difficult considering all the noise from the man himself.

Only because the MC was there, stripping a person of their means to feed themselves is one of the worst death sentences one could impose.

Yeah, and in those few days more people lose lives or positions of power, the latter being more frightening to a politician, obviously. It happened in the US not that long ago.

I admit it would be difficult considering we are talking the majority of Syl'anar citizens here.

The name of the game hasn't changed, only the methods by which the resistance plays. As for why, to eliminate threats.

The US survived 87 of its 245 years without even a single intelligence service and none of that time had issues resulting from that absence. The first US intelligence service was formed by the Union in 1863, the Bureau of Military Information.

You misunderstood my intention, the whole death thing has no connection to my intent to free the elves by any means necessary, it is entirely revenge for a single person. I do intend to free the elves, but how will have to change in this kind of scenario.

True

He did one thing, the reforms, and has shown signs of not even desiring to work on further things, such as that little contest the MC practically had to coerce Lin into, still feel so wrong doing that. The rest is an excuse from him to keep people from threatening his position. At the risk of losing his position and to keep it are the same thing. He did it because he risked his job by not doing it, which means he did it to keep his job. This is just typical politician tactics, say one thing, do another while appearing to care to keep your job.

No, at least karens don't commit or enable, in this case the latter, crimes against humanity/the elven race.

 

[DigDug69]

I'm a believer in the concept that the punishment must fit the crime.
With that said, I think that every single elf that was enslaved should be allowed to kick the people who were responsible for keeping them enslaved, where it hurts the most, one at a time until every single elf has had their chance.
After the elves have all been issued boots, of course.

The bots can then treat their injuries by rubbing liquid heat into the injured area.

 

[TheDevian]

I took those into account, they just don't go far enough in this specific case. They do fine for reeducation and bettering the situation for the elves to where it needs to end up, but there is a major flaw with those plans. They, the perpetrators, get treated as if nothing happened caused by them. Teaching a lesson is fine for those who just stood there and did nothing and those plans do that very well, not to mention reaching a wider audience, but they don't punish for misdeeds of the past that were apparently fully intentional. What has already been done cannot be forgiven and must have some form of punishment equivalent to the offense committed. A mistake, an accident, would be one thing, but this was done intentionally on multiple levels.

Well, most of those plans also include methods for taking over the government, and it is hard to punish an entire nation for something that was legal at the time. We can bust anyone braking the laws at that point, and we can start changing the laws, and bust anyone who breaks them then.

No need to sneak, just get out as normal before Syl'anar starts treating it less as a missing person who might still be alive and more as a person who was kidnapped and murdered out of revenge. Actually, sneaking out of the country when the alarm hasn't yet been raised will do the opposite, drawing more attention to the MC and the harem. As far as war, actually, they probably would if Syl'anar trespassed. Even if not to actively defend the MC and his harem, to retaliate against what they could call an invasion. That could then serve as further distraction for the MC and his harem to slip further into the shadows elsewhere while Syl'anar has their hands full with the war they just instigated.

You won't get that far, you only have that kind of time when we are talking about a nobody, like the nurse, and giving up everything so you can take some misguided revenge on one rando, is dumb. You won't do anyone any good that way. Someone else will just take her place. Will that person be better? Maybe, but they also might be worse.
Going after Cornwall, is not only misguided, but also a suicide mission. Even if you do manage you get him, and the odds of that are lower than anything surviving a volcano swim, they are not going to wait to start going after him, they will be on you in moments. We are not talking abut cops, this would be the equivalent of the secret service, and they don't have to do anything other than protect their charge, and they will risk almost anything to do that.

Some people don't see it that way, which is what I usually get when arguing against death for a real life convict whose crimes deserve worse. This is why it serves as a better ultimate punishment in vigilante justice than in true justice. True justice is meant to reform the convict or to punish them. vigilante justice is entirely revenge based and the ultimate way to get revenge is to strip everything away.

Again, studies show, that the death penalty is not a deterrent to crime. People are more worried that they might get life in jail than killed. Especially if they believe in an after life, you are "helping them reach paradise".

No, it is them who decided to defend the MC when he was giving himself up, resulting in their deaths. It is Syl'anar who decided to raid and even cause that instinct to trigger in the first place. Remember what I said in the first sentence " Except the MC tells them in multiple scenarios to stand down and give in peacefully and even intends to do it himself." The only resistance would be from the girls, not even the MC is fighting, they just move without thinking, perceiving danger to the MC, which gets them killed. As long as there is a raid occurring, the girls are guaranteed to die, even if the MC lays down his weapons and surrenders the second the door is busted down. This is why the only solution is to get out while the alarm isn't raised, which I admit won't be long even with the gap between Cornwall or the nurse being missed and the first missing person report.

You never said you were going to give yourself up, you said you were going to make the girls fight for you, and then you said you would tell them to run, and then you said this, no matter what you say or do, you getting them into a position where they have to defend you, is your fault, not theirs. It doesn't matter what you say, or what you do, this would be 100% your fault, because you are the one who brought this down on everyone's head. Not to mention, they arrest you, Lin and the other slaves are going to go back into the system.

Illegal and still very much a threat, starvation won't stop because Cornwall told it to. They took away the assets that would have enabled her to keep starvation from happening, there is no other path now in a scenario where she didn't have the MC to rely on. Even if unintended, it was still Syl'anar's fault that she had no means to keep starvation from happening in a scenario where she did not have the MC or a master.

Yes, anyone who does that, is a criminal, and even the elf can report them, unless they are criminals, and in that case, it doesn't matter what they laws are, they are going to break them anyway.
Who the hell are you talking about? No one is starving anyone.

The MC is not, but there are capable combatants in his harem who, while not specifically assassins, could pull sneak attacks. Unlike using guerilla tactics in response to a raid on the hotel, one man should not be a problem to get rid of from the shadows and then disappear, whether that means kill on the spot or kidnap, though I admit the latter would be more difficult considering all the noise from the man himself.

Two. You have two people who are capable fighters. The government has many thousands. Secret service, special forces, military robots, tanks, bombs, helicopters, and more.
You have one android and an elf who can fight.

Only because the MC was there, stripping a person of their means to feed themselves is one of the worst death sentences one could impose.

WHAT?!?! Where? When? WTF are you talking about here? At no point does the MC starve anyone.

Yeah, and in those few days more people lose lives or positions of power, the latter being more frightening to a politician, obviously. It happened in the US not that long ago.

No, people don't lose their jobs over these for long, they are right back at work soon after. Maybe in a new precinct, but it barely affects them at all.

I admit it would be difficult considering we are talking the majority of Syl'anar citizens here.

"Difficult" doesn't even begin to describe it.

The name of the game hasn't changed, only the methods by which the resistance plays. As for why, to eliminate threats.

If you don't have a hotel, it can't be Harem Hotel. It would be more like Refugee Harem. Graveyard Harem.

The US survived 87 of its 245 years without even a single intelligence service and none of that time had issues resulting from that absence. The first US intelligence service was formed by the Union in 1863, the Bureau of Military Information.

Yeah, before they were industrialized, before the world was able to easily send people all over the world. Even before there were official agencies, there were people doing those jobs. You can't run anything without intelligence. Nations had spies since there were governments.

You misunderstood my intention, the whole death thing has no connection to my intent to free the elves by any means necessary, it is entirely revenge for a single person. I do intend to free the elves, but how will have to change in this kind of scenario.

I know, it is all about revenge.

He did one thing, the reforms, and has shown signs of not even desiring to work on further things, such as that little contest the MC practically had to coerce Lin into, still feel so wrong doing that. The rest is an excuse from him to keep people from threatening his position. At the risk of losing his position and to keep it are the same thing. He did it because he risked his job by not doing it, which means he did it to keep his job. This is just typical politician tactics, say one thing, do another while appearing to care to keep your job.

He has many many reforms, and will make more. Other powerful people are working to convince him, as well as winning the contest.

The people who are threatening his position are not the anti-slavery people, it is the ones who think he is going too far. The people who threaten him wanted it to stay the same, not change, and he is changing things. He is risking his job by making these reforms, that most people in the country do not want.

No, at least karens don't commit or enable, in this case the latter, crimes against humanity/the elven race.

In Syl'anar they do, or at least that one nurse did. lol
Actually, in the real world, they do too.

 

[freedom.call]

Is all this happening in your games? If it is I have to start over.

 

[TheDevian]

Is all this happening in your games? If it is I have to start over.

This is all fantasy, I posted a meme, and it started a discussion that got out of hand. A big "What If..." thought experiment.

 

[freedom.call]

This is all fantasy, I posted a meme, and it started a discussion that got out of hand.

That's a relief, carry on. All my elves are accounted for and tucked in for the night.