VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.17.2] [Runey]

[Runey]

I also have another question for you all.

I'm trying to understand why some players feel the game is being too preachy, or includes too much exposition, or having too much lore. Have you ever felt this? Where does this happen?

Any written exposition is supposed to be purely optional, like Nala telling you and Kali about elvish history. None of it should be in your face if you don't want it to be there, I try to add that in only for people who are interested.

The only thing I can think when I see "too preachy" is that this person must enjoy slavery and oppression (not literally in the real world of course), or not want to be told its bad. I don't understand where this comes from, and I'd like to understand.

Unfortunately, when I try to open dialogue with people who rate this game low, I just end up losing brain cells and not getting anything out of it. I've tried to talk to every person who has written a low review to ask them for clarification or to explain some things, but it never turns out well on this website.

In one of my recent shorts, the character arrives at a new city and spreads his arms, inhales that "new city" air and is promptly smacked in the face by a foreign bill that was being carried by a gust of wind.
I don't know if comedy is what you're going for with any of these events but I thought it could be a fun little way of getting those extra $10, if nothing else.

Honestly, finding Syl'anar's currency on the ground or something is a good way to gain money and add visual exposition. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Uthuriel]

...

No. Worldbuilding and lore are essential for a game like this and it never felt preachy to me either.

I think people that complain about things like that just want a quick fap and have no interest in it to begin with.
Don't let a vocal minority dictate how you write your story.

 

[shadowtempered]

People already complain about a grind though. I'm not sure if adding more money sinks is a good idea.
Honestly, I'm not sure how to take that. Most people tell me that there is no grind, but then I'll get the odd review here saying "omg insane ridiculous nonsense grinding all the time, 1/5 stars" and I don't even know what to think except "Is it only a 'grind' because you can't have everything instantly? All the income is mostly passive."

But I do plan on adding more functionality to the webcams at some point.

I think you have plenty of visitors who fit the instant gratification category and until the game launches with a cheat or something to enable the gallery at start for them, you won't ever truly appease them and their reviews show that.

I don't know what kind of complaints you see, besides those you bring up, but folks not being able to figure out story elements / money issues are the primary posts I respond to and it's almost always the same thing. They didn't follow the story advice to invest in the bar / use photoshots and they didn't click on a door / visit a location to follow the in-game hint system. Maybe you could have a "tips" options with Ellen who tells you how to make money and her tips expand as you progress?

From personal experience having recently just cleared a new save: the game isn't difficult and I think the only "grinding" that I've had to do was leveling the girls stats(lol grinding, get it? eh... eh? ... ) and maybe 1 week of extra income to buy story related stuff(currently at 9k $$ with nothing to buy). I'd love fewer clicks to get around, but I understand your goal to drive folks to certain locations for events to trigger.

I also have another question for you all.

I'm trying to understand why some players feel the game is being too preachy, or includes too much exposition, or having too much lore. Have you ever felt this? Where does this happen?

Any written exposition is supposed to be purely optional, like Nala telling you and Kali about elvish history. None of it should be in your face if you don't want it to be there, I try to add that in only for people who are interested.

The only thing I can think when I see "too preachy" is that this person must enjoy slavery and oppression (not literally in the real world of course), or not want to be told its bad. I don't understand where this comes from, and I'd like to understand.

No. I agree with @Uthuriel
You won't reach those people. You can try and grow your player base by trying to appease them, but I think it'll ultimately be more work than it's worth and you potentially lose what you already have.

 

[elnahat]

A question:
Are there any mechanics or other things you think could be improved about HH?

An option for bigger text box and text size. The game has grown really big, so it offers a ton of things to read and I really like that option in games with good story like this.
I have seen renpy games that have in their save screens an option that turns on an off save naming, so you can name your saves only when you want to, and not be asked for a name every time you save.

 

[theGlassAlice]

This would hurt the game in a large way, mechanically. The player needs to visit the lobby and each floor for some events that occur in those areas to start. Going from hub to hub is a core aspect of how this game plays. Being able to teleport to each room would subconsciously make you lost. You would think "What do I do? Why aren't some events happening? Where do I need to go to make them happen?" But with how it currently works, you naturally come across events by simply walking around.

Okay, I understand.

Question, what do you need $500 for in the early game? Everything you need should be purchasable when those options become available and no sooner or later. For example, Kali's hard drive becomes buyable right when the player has the money to buy it. And you couldn't use any outfits, the second floor wouldn't have any use, and the bar doesn't become available until later, at which point you should have been able to accumulate all the money necessary to buy it passively by just playing the game. Please help me understand so I can make the game better.

There's not much to do early game, so if I decide to take Lin out on a date to the cafe, then I won't have enough money to buy Kali's hard drive, and have to wait for another day. Just a little bit of extra money would make everyone more comfortable in the beginning, rather than operating on tight budget, only getting just enough money.

 

[ankhtar]

Any written exposition is supposed to be purely optional, like Nala telling you and Kali about elvish history.

That was actually the one time so far I've felt the game laid it on a bit too thick, but I also said nothing about it because, as you mentioned, it's entirely optional. The option to refuse was clearly there, I was just curious about it but it ended up going on for longer than I anticipated, which is my fault, not the game's.

The only thing I can think when I see "too preachy" is that this person must enjoy slavery and oppression (not literally in the real world of course), or not want to be told its bad. I don't understand where this comes from, and I'd like to understand.

That likely stems from the kink. There are, although rare, entire games devoted to slavery, the darker side of corruption and such things. Which is fine, I mean, each of us has to rely on whatever gets the ol' engine up and running. The problem arises when people with this kink hear or read about this game containing slavery, only to be disappointed by the fact it is more about telling a story than it is about RPing their fantasy, which leads to them leaving poor reviews.

Honestly, and this may just be the misanthrope in me attempting to break out, I wouldn't read too much into it. As was mentioned above, the people complaining are (most likely) those who expected a quick vertical meat wrap and care very little (if anything) for any story, going so far as to let everyone know that porn games shouldn't have a story to begin with and that we're all terrible people for disagreeing. If they go into a game without reading reviews, or at least skimming the thread to see what the hype is all about, then that's on them, not you.
I think your vision of what you want your game to be and what they want out of a game are never going to be on the same page. Trying to force it is likely going to make the quality of the game suffer and, more importantly, likely deal a heavy blow to your sanity (or what's left of it by now). If you fall into the endless, dizzying pits of insanity, then who is going to continue proving us with the quality content you have? It certainly wouldn't be me, I'd probably take your IP and turn it into a humorless HBO sitcom that nobody likes. Please spare the faeries from that ghastly fate.

At the end of the day, they just wanted something from the game that it couldn't give them, is all.

 

[jimmyjoo]

Hm, that's not a bad idea, but it does take away some of the self-insert-iveness the PC is supposed to have.

Life happens to everyone, including the PC...

 

[WhitePolarFoxxx]

why some players feel the game is being too preachy, or includes too much exposition, or having too much lore. Have you ever felt this? Where does this happen?

No, I have not. But I suppose that this thing starts from the moment when half of the girls turn out to be half/quarter/octa-elves. Maria, Hana. Ashley!!! Who will be next, MC's grandpa? Note: I'm not complaining here. Lore details and exposition become necessary for explanation why girls end up in our harem hotel. Without this explanation all plot twists would be meaningless.

The only thing I can think when I see "too preachy" is that this person must enjoy slavery and oppression (not literally in the real world of course), or not want to be told its bad.

How many elves in the game, who are totally okay with their slavery? They just have nothing to say. In the same moment, liberty supportes have to talk a lot about their disagreement.
To be honest, I don't know what's going on in the slave routes. I'm average love enjoyer

not want to be told its bad

One austrian artist... Nevermind.

 

[wiseold6996]

I also have another question for you all.

I'm trying to understand why some players feel the game is being too preachy, or includes too much exposition, or having too much lore. Have you ever felt this? Where does this happen?

Any written exposition is supposed to be purely optional, like Nala telling you and Kali about elvish history. None of it should be in your face if you don't want it to be there, I try to add that in only for people who are interested.

The only thing I can think when I see "too preachy" is that this person must enjoy slavery and oppression (not literally in the real world of course), or not want to be told its bad. I don't understand where this comes from, and I'd like to understand.

Unfortunately, when I try to open dialogue with people who rate this game low, I just end up losing brain cells and not getting anything out of it. I've tried to talk to every person who has written a low review to ask them for clarification or to explain some things, but it never turns out well on this website.



Honestly, finding Syl'anar's currency on the ground or something is a good way to gain money and add visual exposition. Thanks for the suggestion.

Its depends on kink. People who like domination or slavery kink don't like to be lectured about it .

 

[Corvus Belli]

A question:
Are there any mechanics or other things you think could be improved about HH?

The Lust mechanic. I think the actual content is great, but the mechanc is counter-intuitive. As it currently stands, if I use every possible opportunity to have sex with Lin, then she eventually gets frustrated that she acts out in a bratty manner, or Ashley jumps your bones after tying you up because she's been pushed to the edge. Why? In order to trigger the Lust events, you need to have had sex with the girls three time per Lust Level, so between Lust Event 2 and Lust Event 3, the player would have had sex with the girls three times. Why are they still pent up?
Surely it should be the opposite; for every full day that goes by WITHOUT the player having some sexual content with the girls, their Lust Level should tick up.

When you've finished remaking earlier scenes you don't feel are up to your current standard of quality, I'd like to see some of the Dungeon content get a rework.

I like the new UI changes in the Stats screen, except for the font you chose for the girls name; a very minor thing.
I'd also like if the traits on the right side of the screen were in a standardised order; again, very minor, and really just because I like things in order.

Any suggestions for this content? Something that can explain the world (Like an interaction with a police droid, or seeing construction mechs, or maybe an elf being abused and an option to save her), and some ways to earn extra money?

Have him visit/walk past some places that you originally introduced in some of the girls events. Walk past the exterior of the restaurant you take the girls to on their dates, for example (and think to yourself it looks like a very expensive establishment, so that when Kali first takes you there, the player has an idea of how seriously she's taking it). Or stop for a coffee at Hazel's Coffee Shop (it would be nice to have a friendly first interaction with Hazel, which is then soured if you take girls to the cafe for Exhibitionism events).

I also have another question for you all.
I'm trying to understand why some players feel the game is being too preachy, or includes too much exposition, or having too much lore. Have you ever felt this? Where does this happen?

I've never felt that way, but I think I can answer the first part of the question, about it being "too preachy".
I think it's because you're writing a story which deals with various forms of oppression, and opposing that oppression, and there's a not-particularly-small portion of the population who HATE everything to do with that, because it reminds them of efforts to oppose real-world oppression. It's why so many people seem to hate Vanessa, despite the fact that she's objectively right in her anger towards, y'know... the concept of owning sapient individuals as if they were property.
When people complain about being "lectured about Elven history", some of those people mean that as not-particularly-subtle code for "I'm sick of being lectured about Black history/queer history/whatever else they don't want to be told about". Some of them, however, mean exactly what they said, and assumed they'd be penalised if they didn't agree to listen to it, and quickly grew bored/discontent.

 

[freedom.call]

Well, for starters, I would like a button to go straight to the kitchen, like we have for the bar, so maybe a better navigation setup. One of my few complaints about this game is trying to do something (especially when I load an old save), and having events trigger on me, not letting me go where I want to go.

I concur about a readily available kitchen button, pausing or temporarily skipping autostart events could be gudd too...

Though, this would had a problem with the side girls, but most could be done by going to them or having a button in the lobby/front door to trigger the ones who don't live there? IDK..

Wrecked the bar, now he wants to clutter what's left of the lobby.

 

[Skode]

A question:
Are there any mechanics or other things you think could be improved about HH?

Tips for newer players on how to level the stats of the girls. Some are very specific and have to be stumbled on - Want Lin footjobs? you must ask her to wear her apron in the kitchen and only then will you get the option. Want titty wanked by Autumn? sure, visit her on specifically Sunday Morning in the shower and so on.

Also feel it would be ideal to have a shortcut to the Elf House - its the one place that required as many clicks as it does to access. A shortcut would be ideal like say the Bar has vs having to go to lobby then selecting the front door and then selecting to go there. Speaking of the elves is there any tangible difference to bothering with the mechanics there? Like say giving them cheap food and denying them tv rights?

 

[Mathesar]

Its depends on kink. People who like domination or slavery kink don't like to be lectured about it .

I don't see the game as lecturing you about the kink. I mean, there's a dungeon where you can take everyone but Autumn, and she's going there eventually. Even Vanessa, the loudest anti-slavery voice behind Nia, has a pretty serious interest in BDSM judging by her tan lines. The slave plot line really has no connection to kinks at all. There's no consensual non-consent or pet play or anything vaguely BDSM. The plot line is barely even sexual outside of that one bit with the contest/tournament. It's actual chattel slavery with most elves doing manual labor, not kinky sex slave stuff. If Runey really wanted to criticize the sex slave kink or lecture you about it, Lin almost certainly would have been raped as part of her backstory, Ms Ren would have been Ashley's father's sex slave who was sold for money or a 'newer model', and we would have seen some sort of slave brothel by now.

 

[Ron Black]

Still waiting for Autumn submission

 

[bogodit]

C'mon man. Not even you have believe this part. This is a pirating forum for porn games. Let's not act like it's anything but a tiny minority that comes to this site for the unbelievable, mediocre at best story telling that porn games have. I think the popularity of your game is due to the large porn content and not because of the tired fantasy trope of enslaved elves.

I know that you're protective of your work after several years of successfully developing the game and maintaining an interest from the audience but this whole essay long argument chain over 1 review is pretty unnecessary when you have overwhelming praise. You just wasted your time.

Criiiiiinge!

 

[alex2011]

I hate it when people like this manage to get on just the right nerve to bring me out of lurking. I was all set not to say another word so as to keep from initiating another unwanted exchange (those exchanges are just a part of who I am, the only way to avoid them is to not speak at all, so that is what I did).

Runey Here's the thing, and I am going to be honest, I do see some of it in myself, I just have a reality/fiction disconnect that allows me to ignore any potential real world parallels in fiction. There are two distinct groups I am seeing here that are complaining, not necessarily mutually exclusive between each other.

Some people don't like to be lectured on LGBT/race issues in their fiction and this Elven slavery portion does draw some parallels to the slavery of black people from the 1800s and before in the real world, not to mention the still problematic cases of illegal real world slavery. Then there's the parallels to the LGBT rights issue in some of the other plot lines. For me personally, I could see myself getting annoyed with it if I didn't maintain a disconnect between reality and fiction, but this is only because I already see A LOT of it in the real world because the media keeps beating both topics over the head in my country ad infinitum as if nothing else is going on in the world. Even as someone who is LGBT, I have had enough of hearing about it in the real world to the point that I am almost entirely opposed to my own community, just open a dialogue with the people in power and pass some laws to give exactly the same rights as everyone else and be done with it. I come to fiction to escape that, so to bring those real life issues into the fiction I chose to escape with is the problem there. However, I personally don't see those real world issues, I see Elven slavery and Android (or whatever) rights, which are not the same due to my disconnect. This was just the part I could see in myself that seems to be an issue with the negative reviews and complaints.

Then there is a prevalence on F95 of people looking for a quick fap, that has been a major thing since AT LEAST my first day here. It is so bad that entire wars break out over the 'no sexual content' tag. It is second in severity only to the great NTR wars the site sees on occasion. Having a long story is a problem to people like this because it gets in the way of what they see as the main focus, the sex. They would be more than happy with the entire story stripped out of the game, leaving just enough to make sense of the sex part.

I'm going to be blunt, these people, in both of the above groups, are not going to be of help to you. They will only serve to annoy you, to cause you stress, and eventually to cause you to burn out in a way that kills the game. You are better off ignoring them.

I don't see the game as lecturing you about the kink. I mean, there's a dungeon where you can take everyone but Autumn, and she's going there eventually. Even Vanessa, the loudest anti-slavery voice behind Nia, has a pretty serious interest in BDSM judging by her tan lines. The slave plot line really has no connection to kinks at all. There's no consensual non-consent or pet play or anything vaguely BDSM. The plot line is barely even sexual outside of that one bit with the contest/tournament. It's actual chattel slavery with most elves doing manual labor, not kinky sex slave stuff. If Runey really wanted to criticize the sex slave kink or lecture you about it, Lin almost certainly would have been raped as part of her backstory, Ms Ren would have been Ashley's father's sex slave who was sold for money or a 'newer model', and we would have seen some sort of slave brothel by now.

The connection isn't in the game, it's in the tags. People who see the slave tag, for example, expect to be the slaver, not to fight against said slavers. So, when the game says slavery is bad, they may see that as a kink lecture about how the kink is bad, not about how actual slavery is bad like the game is telling us. This is coming from someone who likes that kink myself and was drawn to this game because of that tag, one of my favorite game types is slave training, but my reaction to the game was positive despite the opposition of slavery instead of being the slaver.

 

[Commanderkashoggi]

I think you're doing great with the lore and the storytelling Runey. I for one am starting to get a little excited to see the upcoming elf revolution where MC ends up becoming a reluctant general, just thrown right into the thick of it having a "holy shit" panic the entire time. I also am anxiously awaiting Maria's well-deserved redemption but I know that sort of thing is a looooooooooong way off.

Hint-wise, I think the in game system works pretty well (but I usually use the WT mod).

As for content, maybe just some small things here and there to liven things up a bit. Like some sort of actual use for the ice cream vending machine, using the washer in the laundry room as a prison for rogue faries, dance battles in the bar or maybe even karaoke.

Personally I can kinda see MC and some of the girls (especially Maria) trying to liven up the darker parts of the story with some light-hearted pranks on the others. Maybe someone hides the remote from Sylvia, or switches the color in Ashley's hair dye, or puts glitter in Lyn's feather duster.

I know, goofy shit that doesn't contribute much but I was just having a brain dump.

 

[TheDevian]

Okay. Maybe I'll test it next time

Sorry if this is a repost, I ran into some issues, and can't see it, so thinking it didn't get posted...
It is random, most of the time it gives you an extra 50sils a week, but there is a chance of it being less or more.

I don't see the game as lecturing you about the kink. I mean, there's a dungeon where you can take everyone but Autumn, and she's going there eventually. Even Vanessa, the loudest anti-slavery voice behind Nia, has a pretty serious interest in BDSM judging by her tan lines. The slave plot line really has no connection to kinks at all. There's no consensual non-consent or pet play or anything vaguely BDSM. The plot line is barely even sexual outside of that one bit with the contest/tournament. It's actual chattel slavery with most elves doing manual labor, not kinky sex slave stuff. If Runey really wanted to criticize the sex slave kink or lecture you about it, Lin almost certainly would have been raped as part of her backstory, Ms Ren would have been Ashley's father's sex slave who was sold for money or a 'newer model', and we would have seen some sort of slave brothel by now.

We also had those pictures of Vanessa in that one event, with Android. I can't wait for more of that with her.

We are getting a little pet play (wish there was more), and the dungeon stuff, but it is all pretty mild, consensual, and optional. You kind of need to do a bit with Lin, or used to, but even that isn't really required, it just changes the scene some.

Ren did get raped by Ashley's dad, but she hid it from her as much as she could. This was before the 'protection' laws. But again, that was in the past and they don't go into that, it is alluded to, not shown directly.

Oh well, point is, almost all sex stuff is optional, and even when there is drama, we know there will be a happy ending. It will all be okay. There is nothing to worry about, just sit back and enjoy the roller-coaster.

 

[StupidFatHobbit]

A question:
Are there any mechanics or other things you think could be improved about HH?

It would be nice to see some smaller interactions when running into the girls around the hotel that aren't either them just standing around or furiously masturbating. Some random day-to-day smaller interactions like a short conversation about food, weather, video games or similar. Maybe a passing peck on the cheek to/from someone just coming into or leaving the room you're in, small conversations between the girls and things like that.

I know these things are not exactly easy to do, but it would add some more life to the hotel and make it feel more like a group of people genuinely enjoying each other's company rather than a set of people that only exist if they're in the same room as the MC.

I'd also like to see the story events be more part of the day-to-day as well. Have the girls talk about the thing you did in a short interaction that doesn't pass the time ingame. Bigger events on a personal level should also have more consequence. For instance, after "the big reveal" in Maria's storyline, she's back working in the bar as if nothing happened once you go through the next part of her story. Given her new status as a slave, I feel there should be another few bits of exposition here to explain how and why she's back so soon. Maybe have a hard conversation with her to put on a slave collar whilst working in the bar, or be risky and go without.

I really do appreciate your work, Runey. Keep it up!

 

[UnoriginalUserName]

A question:
Are there any mechanics or other things you think could be improved about HH?

A floorplan / map that shows the locations of the various girls with little head icons so we could tell at a glance where everyone is. Make it "clickable" to allow fast travel to the rooms for the ultimate in hotel navigation.