Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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But I have to say, slavery is not the core of the story. It is oppression, as it comes in MANY forms. Every character you interact with is oppressed in some way. Ashley is poor, Kali is rich, F&E are powerful, yet they've all been oppressed by something somewhere, and MC is the one to let them free which unlocks their full potential. THAT is the core of the story. Slavery is just one way people are oppressed in this world.
Agreed, and I probably shouldn't have used the word "Elven" but I do consider slavery (in various forms, some of them psychological rather than physical) to be the core of the story, which is more or less what you're saying. An exploration of routes to freedom, perhaps.

That said, up until now the crux of the mainline narrative is still Elven slavery. I see all the things you're doing with all the other characters, for sure, but aside from Kali most of the central narrative still clings to the slavery question; F&E are still aside the main narrative, for example. It's the existential threat. It's not the only one — all the NPCs have their own stories — but it's the one that looms over everyone. I assume you'll do things to unravel this singular focus, which I welcome, but right now it's very much there.
 

Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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Surely if it's going to be finished it'll be a pleasant surprise
It's a passion project. He doesn't just want to put it out there, he needs to put it out there. He's gonna finish it, unless he's hit by a meteor or something. As an artist and a creator in my own fields, I recognize the type. This is one of a very few projects I'd never, ever doubt will be completed.
 
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Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
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Agreed, and I probably shouldn't have used the word "Elven" but I do consider slavery (in various forms, some of them psychological rather than physical) to be the core of the story, which is more or less what you're saying. An exploration of routes to freedom, perhaps.

That said, up until now the crux of the mainline narrative is still Elven slavery. I see all the things you're doing with all the other characters, for sure, but aside from Kali most of the central narrative still clings to the slavery question; F&E are still aside the main narrative, for example. It's the existential threat. It's not the only one — all the NPCs have their own stories — but it's the one that looms over everyone. I assume you'll do things to unravel this singular focus, which I welcome, but right now it's very much there.
Sure, but that could be said about anyone's storyline. Power, which is F&E's theme, is present in everyone elses story and is a foundation of slavery. Greed, which is Kali's theme, is a foundation of slavery. It's all tied together. Or how Power and Poverty mix so well together (F&E and Ashley's stories) or Greed and Poverty having a tough relationship. Ashley and Kali, sometimes represented through Ashley feeling insecure about her body next to Kali. Who was at one point very fat, whereas Ashley has always been small and frail. It all bounces off each other and goes quite deep.
 
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Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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Sure, but that could be said about anyone's storyline. Power, which is F&E's theme, is present in everyone elses story and is a foundation of slavery. Greed, which is Kali's theme, is a foundation of slavery. It's all tied together.
I'm not sure we're actually disagreeing. Slavery to a philosophy or a practice and slavery to a person are surely related in intention, if not in actual fact.
 

Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
3,965
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I'm not sure we're actually disagreeing. Slavery to a philosophy or a practice and slavery to a person are surely related in intention, if not in actual fact.
We may not be, but I'm happy to explain where I'm coming from. (even added some extra info to my last post)
 
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r6nv9as64ndaoiy

New Member
Nov 8, 2020
14
30
With your insane bitching about it like you are, I am now almost hoping that Runey does just that, not have Autumn get fucked until the last scene of the last, completed version of Harem Hotel.
Whew, all I did was express some frustration in basically three replies and it's now "insane bitching"? I've got a whole world of "bitching" for ya, if you already consider this insane.

It's also really cute that you consider "good" to screw others (not me) for replies of a single person on a public forum.

It's bad to coerce Creator into doing what you like, but it's good to coerce him to screw certain single someone just because you've read three replies on some forum? How does that work? If I or some other person will create a bunch of puppets to write annoyed replies here about other characters (like, I don't know, "How long until Kali in slutty outfit?!"), will you suggest to block content to screw them too? Can we stall the game completely that way?
 

Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
1,803
3,219
We may not be, but I'm happy to explain where I'm coming from. (even added some extra info to my last post)
We're not disagreeing about anything important. What I'm saying is that, right now, the overarching story is still about Elven slavery. There's a lot more going on, with respect to the individual NPCs, but the MC's engaging with most of those on a personal level — there are emergent exceptions, like Kali — while the slavery story is the public and existentially threatening theme. If you're hinting that all these things will be equally important, or at least relevant, in the future, then great!
 

DigDug69

Engaged Member
Jun 29, 2019
2,541
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Whew, all I did was express some frustration in basically three replies and it's now "insane bitching"? I've got a whole world of "bitching" for ya, if you already consider this insane.

It's also really cute that you consider "good" to screw others (not me) for replies of a single person on a public forum.

It's bad to coerce Creator into doing what you like, but it's good to coerce him to screw certain single someone just because you've read three replies on some forum? How does that work? If I or some other person will create a bunch of puppets to write annoyed replies here about other characters (like, I don't know, "How long until Kali in slutty outfit?!"), will you suggest to block content to screw them too? Can we stall the game completely that way?
You expressed it over and over and over and over again.
Once was more than enough.
You posted about it 7 times in one evening, and you refused to accept anyone's explanation of why it had not happened yet, including the game creator Runey.

Your expressing your frustration turned into troll like behavior a long time ago.
 
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TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
14,850
35,013
Even with Runey redoing older content with the last few releases of Harem Hotel, updates of new content are still far larger than 90% of the games on F95.
I personally prefer the updates being done the way Runey has been doing it, compared to how I have seen other devs do it. That being releasing an update with new old content, and no "NEW" content.
It really pisses me off when a dev makes you wait for months for an update, and all you get is a little updated old content, and bug fixes, and zero new content.
Not to mention, that he does the new stuff first, and then works in the remakes around that.
Can anyone help me I am stuck at moon lv 3 event, it says I have to go to the bar and that after completing I can go talk to the bartender to choose a different route, but there is only one woman there on Saturday you can have sex with her but that is not the event.
Did you try on other days?
only need ur soul hehe
Well, I'm fucked then...
Has anyone else noticed pat pat pat that TheDevian pat pat pat has been pat pat pat very quiet pat pat pat since the release pat pat pat of 17.0?
I only pat pat pat mention it pat pat pat because of pat pat pat the strange, but pat pat pat familiar sound I pat pat pat keep hearing pat pat pat in the distance...
Was a busy day, had to go shopping, I am several hours behind in everything today, sadly, only on my 2nd event so far.

On the other hand, I did break 6900 headpats before I started the update.
If you reimagine Runey's releases as frequent and short, rather than infrequent and epic, it's not actually that much time. It seems like forever because it's been that in real time rather than HH time, but given that pretty much everyone else in the game gave it up with a sideways glance, there's nothing wrong with Autumn taking a bit longer.
Yeah, that would suck. I love the way all the main girls always get at least a little something.
Wow, I also like Autumn the most, and often "joke" on here about getting her into my bed, but wow.
It will happen when it fits into the story, and no sooner.
I want to get her into bed ...for cuddles. Sex can wait.
No Android?
No, she is pretty active. XD
If he's not hot, I'm going to petition Runey add an eviction feature.
I used to be, still pretty good for my age. XD
I hear that he gives good head pats.
Headpats Bring Good Girls.jpg
With your insane bitching about it like you are, I am now almost hoping that Runey does just that, not have Autumn get fucked until the last scene of the last, completed version of Harem Hotel.
As long as her other stuff continues to expand, I would not be bothered by that at all. lol
Agreed, and I probably shouldn't have used the word "Elven" but I do consider slavery (in various forms, some of them psychological rather than physical) to be the core of the story, which is more or less what you're saying. An exploration of routes to freedom, perhaps.
It is a plot point, but not the point of the plot.

The point is about how different people deal with their issues, slavery just happens to be one of those issues, as well as rampant consumerism, abusive of power, and many other issues, the elves just being the part that is different enough from our world to catch more people's attention.
 

Zoran89

Newbie
Aug 20, 2020
94
183
Was about to answer to some other post, but seeing as Runey decided to chime in, I will treat this as a priority.

But I think you have to be one sick motherfucker to give the order to shoot at your own daughter, fake bullets included. I would think it much more unrealistic if the chief of police would threaten his own children physical safety. And he was pretty close to it too, but his humanity won over in that moment. But he even says this is out of his control, like you mention, he just isn't willing to risk physically harm his own daughter, and I think that's very relatable. And who knows, the chief of police may get fired after this. This is a story where change like that is absolutely possible.

But come on, terrorism make-believe? Teenage girls? I cannot take you seriously like this. This is a protest of 20-somethings.
To shoot your own daughter? Sure. To tell one of your - let me point out - armed and armoured men to grab her and drag her out of the crowd - not so much.
Again, and don't get me wrong, I don't mean it as a way to gather sympathy, nor as some sort of "I am offended by what you wrote" statement, but I've seen the recordings of these sorts of protests. Where armed anti terrorists were standing across from 20-30-40-something adult men, who were throwing cinder blocks at them. I remember stories my mother told me about how police were constantly using tear gas, how at one point one of the windows in her room got destroyed, and the tear gas from the street went into her room, despite not taking part in the fighting at all. How people were overturning tram cars, using them as barricades, and it's common knowledge how common were curfews, random identity checks of common citizens, how the police in APCs were using high-pressure water spouts against the protesters, and beating them - sometimes to death, more commonly just until they lost consciousness. And yes, sometimes the police even used live ammunition against unarmed protesters.

This was happening almost daily for a good couple of years before the state finally decided that they are actually losing grip on the society, and decided to take a step back, and even now there is a suspicion that they actually subverted the movement from the inside in order to escape any sort of repercussions after the regime change.

And I might've exaggerated on the "teenage" front, but the truth of the matter is - they could be 30. Unless they've got a lot of strong, able-bodied men on their side, this little protest of theirs would've been over within an hour or so, assuming the state actually wanted to silence them - which, as you've stated, is clearly the case.

Would he shoot his daughter? Probably not. Instead, he'd just tell one of his men to forcefully drag her out of the group, shoved her into a police van, told the driver to take her back to the station, and then he would tell the people to shoot the rest of the protesters - especially if we're talking rubber bullets, not live ammo.

No offence, but feel like you severely underestimate what an oppressive state is willing to do when they want to pacify groups of people that threaten their rule.

You do. Hitler did this. It's text-book authoritarian. Oppress the minority so your grasp of power is never threatened.
By definition, if it's authoritarian, then it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

But wait, let me get this straight. The society wants slavery. The society elects their representatives to introduce a law, legalizing said slavery. And then said representatives censor the anti-slavery movement... So that... the people don't see the slaves wanting freedom? OK, I think I am getting a feeling for what you're trying to do here, but the problem is that, your presentation really does not convey this properly.

There have been 3 elvish uprisings, they are very well aware that slaves don't like being slaves, and considering they are 33% of the population, a civil war would be bad.
And I am kind of lost again. So humans know about the anti-slavery notions within the Elven strata. So the censorship is only aimed at slaves... Again, what is stopping a bunch of muscular, armed men from... if nothing else, then just dragging Lin out of the crowd, shoving her into the van and dragging her to the station, where she would be interrogated? Any actions by other protesters to defend her would be treated as an assault against an officer on-duty, and within two-three hours, you'd have AT units, storming the place with riot shields.

And another thing, is the media being controlled by the state? Because if so, then they wouldn't be showing this live at all, instead they'd just report this post-factum, with an adequate spin on the story. And if it is independent, then who is censoring the transmission?

And yes, this world does have much bigger issues than just elves being enslaves. Yes, Harem Hotel was never just about slavery. It's also a story about poverty, power, greed, religion, and so much more.
What on earth gave you the impression that this is supposed to be a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks? Literally nothing about that in game would suggest it, you even seem to understand that inherintently. What you're really saying is that you wish it were a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks. It never has been. I have always planned for this shit from the very beginning. You seem very confused.
I don't know, it could've been the title.

But OK, Now I understand what the issue is.
It's the tone.
This story does not read like a dystopian fiction.
I don't know what is exactly at fault here, whether it's the light-hearted music, a bunch of colourful characters, or all these social issues just getting a mention from time to time, rather than actually being constantly in the focal point of the story - you may have intended to make them central to the story, but to me, they definitely do not come off that way - but this definitely does not read like a serious, deep story about "poverty, power, greed, religion, and so much more". At least not until the halfway point, which is probably why I unironically felt like you suddenly woke up and got influenced by modern day US politics.

The darker storylines, I've always interpreted as you, trying to put an edge on an otherwise light-hearted story. Not as a central theme of said story.

And in case the point was to softly introduce feelings of uneasiness into the story, to make the player uncomfortable as he realizes the "true nature" of the world, the gradient is way too steep - this narrative hits like a truck, which just reinforces the feeling of "WTF did THAT come from?!", rather than the slow, uneasy "What is wrong with this world...?" that should be happening almost right from the start.

The only thing I can offer as criticism in this case is... To concentrate more on the world, rather than on the many waifus you do bone in your hotel. Because this comes off as a harem game, first and foremost.

I guess I should now change my expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, like I said, this fails as dystopian fiction in my book.
 
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Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
3,965
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By definition, if it's authoritarian, then it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.
I'm gonna summarize this whole thing to: have you been to america? Have you heard of the UK? Just pay attention. I do. We don't live in a binary world. Stop arguing with randoms on the internet, touch grass.
 
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Segnbora

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,803
3,219
We may not be, but I'm happy to explain where I'm coming from. (even added some extra info to my last post)
To expand on this:

Just speaking about core NPCs, Lin, Maria, and (after some complexity) Android are obviously directly tied to the slavery storyline. Kali is because of her father, and her work. Autumn is because of her religion. Ashley is because of her parents' slave. The only core NPCs that aren't directly tied to the Elven slavery story (so far) are F&E.

As for the other narratives: F&E and Ashley are intertwined for a while, but that peters out. Maria's also involved, but that never amounts to much other than some dialogue. Android and Kali have a connection, but so far it's nowhere near the importance of the Elven slavery storyline.

I could go on, but the point is that while you know the rest of the story and how it's all going to go, the story as it exists for the public is very much a tale of resistance to Elven slavery and its collateral damage, which a whole bunch of (mostly sexual) side plots along the way. If I never read this thread and played the current game to completion, I'd see it as a game wherein the core purpose was undoing Elven slavery. Since I have read this thread I know that's not all you intend to do, but it's mostly where you've left us at the moment.
 

Zoran89

Newbie
Aug 20, 2020
94
183
I'm gonna summarize this whole thing to: have you been to america? Have you heard of the UK? Just pay attention. I do. We don't live in a binary world. Stop arguing with randoms on the internet, touch grass.
I'm gonna answer with this: No, I haven't been to the US and yes, I did hear of the UK. And I stand by my opinion.

If it's authoritarian, it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

Democracy - from the greek Demos (People) and Kratos (Rule) is a system where people are the highest authority in the state.
Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is a system where the state forces its will upon the people.
If people are being forced into certain laws, then clearly they do not rule - and if they do not rule, then we cannot talk about democracy.

You can have authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy (the rule of the closed chosen class) - the latter being the term I would use for a lot of modern western countries, but those are very much not a democracy.
 

random2141

Newbie
Sep 25, 2018
86
31
Have you visited Kali's college on a random day? That's where her content starts.
I can't visit Kali's college in this version. (It just says "she's at college right now" when I click on her door and doesn't give me thoption). That's why I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing.
 

Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
3,965
20,015
I'm gonna answer with this: No, I haven't been to the US and yes, I did hear of the UK. And I stand by my opinion.

If it's authoritarian, it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

Democracy - from the greek Demos (People) and Kratos (Rule) is a system where people are the highest authority in the state.
Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is a system where the state forces its will upon the people.
If people are being forced into certain laws, then clearly they do not rule - and if they do not rule, then we cannot talk about democracy.

You can have authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy (the rule of the closed chosen class) - the latter being the term I would use for a lot of modern western countries, but those are very much not a democracy.
 
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DigDug69

Engaged Member
Jun 29, 2019
2,541
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Was about to answer to some other post, but seeing as Runey decided to chime in, I will treat this as a priority.



To shoot your own daughter? Sure. To tell one of your - let me point out - armed and armoured men to grab her and drag her out of the crowd - not so much.
Again, and don't get me wrong, I don't mean it as a way to gather sympathy, nor as some sort of "I am offended by what you wrote" statement, but I've seen the recordings of these sorts of protests. Where armed anti terrorists were standing across from 20-30-40-something adult men, who were throwing cinder blocks at them. I remember stories my mother told me about how police were constantly using tear gas, how at one point one of the windows in her room got destroyed, and the tear gas from the street went into her room, despite not taking part in the fighting at all. How people were overturning tram cars, using them as barricades, and it's common knowledge how common were curfews, random identity checks of common citizens, how the police in APCs were using high-pressure water spouts against the protesters, and beating them - sometimes to death, more commonly just until they lost consciousness. And yes, sometimes the police even used live ammunition against unarmed protesters.

This was happening almost daily for a good couple of years before the state finally decided that they are actually losing grip on the society, and decided to take a step back, and even now there is a suspicion that they actually subverted the movement from the inside in order to escape any sort of repercussions after the regime change.

And I might've exaggerated on the "teenage" front, but the truth of the matter is - they could be 30. Unless they've got a lot of strong, able-bodied men on their side, this little protest of theirs would've been over within an hour or so, assuming the state actually wanted to silence them - which, as you've stated, is clearly the case.

Would he shoot his daughter? Probably not. Instead, he'd just tell one of his men to forcefully drag her out of the group, shoved her into a police van, told the driver to take her back to the station, and then he would tell the people to shoot the rest of the protesters - especially if we're talking rubber bullets, not live ammo.

No offence, but feel like you severely underestimate what an oppressive state is willing to do when they want to pacify groups of people that threaten their rule.



By definition, if it's authoritarian, then it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

But wait, let me get this straight. The society wants slavery. The society elects their representatives to introduce a law, legalizing said slavery. And then said representatives censor the anti-slavery movement... So that... the people don't see the slaves wanting freedom? OK, I think I am getting a feeling for what you're trying to do here, but the problem is that, your presentation really does not convey this properly.



And I am kind of lost again. So humans know about the anti-slavery notions within the Elven strata. So the censorship is only aimed at slaves... Again, what is stopping a bunch of muscular, armed men from... if nothing else, then just dragging Lin out of the crowd, shoving her into the van and dragging her to the station, where she would be interrogated? Any actions by other protesters to defend her would be treated as an assault against an officer on-duty, and within two-three hours, you'd have AT units, storming the place with riot shields.

And another thing, is the media being controlled by the state? Because if so, then they wouldn't be showing this live at all, instead they'd just report this post-factum, with an adequate spin on the story. And if it is independent, then who is censoring the transmission?




I don't know, it could've been the title.

But OK, Now I understand what the issue is.
It's the tone.
This story does not read like a dystopian fiction.
I don't know what is exactly at fault here, whether it's the light-hearted music, a bunch of colourful characters, or all these social issues just getting a mention from time to time, rather than actually being constantly in the focal point of the story - you may have intended to make them central to the story, but to me, they definitely do not come off that way - but this definitely does not read like a serious, deep story about "poverty, power, greed, religion, and so much more". At least not until the halfway point, which is probably why I unironically felt like you suddenly woke up and got influenced by modern day US politics.

The darker storylines, I've always interpreted as you, trying to put an edge on an otherwise light-hearted story. Not as a central theme of said story.

And in case the point was to softly introduce feelings of uneasiness into the story, to make the player uncomfortable as he realizes the "true nature" of the world, the gradient is way too steep - this narrative hits like a truck, which just reinforces the feeling of "WTF did THAT come from?!", rather than the slow, uneasy "What is wrong with this world...?" that should be happening almost right from the start.

The only thing I can offer as criticism in this case is... To concentrate more on the world, rather than on the many waifus you do bone in your hotel. Because this comes off as a harem game, first and foremost.

I guess I should now change my expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, like I said, this fails as dystopian fiction in my book.
Looking at this from a tactical and strategic point of view.

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TheDevian

Svengali Productions
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Mar 8, 2018
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To expand on this:

Just speaking about core NPCs, Lin, Maria, and (after some complexity) Android are obviously directly tied to the slavery storyline. Kali is because of her father, and her work. Autumn is because of her religion. Ashley is because of her parents' slave. The only core NPCs that aren't directly tied to the Elven slavery story (so far) are F&E.

As for the other narratives: F&E and Ashley are intertwined for a while, but that peters out. Maria's also involved, but that never amounts to much other than some dialogue. Android and Kali have a connection, but so far it's nowhere near the importance of the Elven slavery storyline.

I could go on, but the point is that while you know the rest of the story and how it's all going to go, the story as it exists for the public is very much a tale of resistance to Elven slavery and its collateral damage, which a whole bunch of (mostly sexual) side plots along the way. If I never read this thread and played the current game to completion, I'd see it as a game wherein the core purpose was undoing Elven slavery. Since I have read this thread I know that's not all you intend to do, but it's mostly where you've left us at the moment.
Again, that is one of the major plot elements, but it is really only surface deep. There are a lot of other plot threads already in the game, and everyone has their own inner turmoil to deal with.
has anything changed for the love and slave routes for the elf babes :unsure:
Not on the love route that I see. Haven't checked the other yet.
I'm gonna answer with this: No, I haven't been to the US and yes, I did hear of the UK. And I stand by my opinion.

If it's authoritarian, it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

Democracy - from the greek Demos (People) and Kratos (Rule) is a system where people are the highest authority in the state.
Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is a system where the state forces its will upon the people.
If people are being forced into certain laws, then clearly they do not rule - and if they do not rule, then we cannot talk about democracy.

You can have authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy (the rule of the closed chosen class) - the latter being the term I would use for a lot of modern western countries, but those are very much not a democracy.
While I don't entirely disagree, there are many mixes out there, nothing is 100%, nothing is black or white, it is all shades of gray. This all or nothing attitude is very authoritarian. :LUL:
 
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