VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.18.2] [Runey]

[DrFree]

One had only been enslaved for a few weeks, and the other believed her master loved her; neither were nearly as desperate as Nia, who has made clear that she's suffered under some particularly bad masters for decades, if not centuries.

That doesn't mean either one of them is any less aware of how bad things can get.

It's also worth noting that both Ann and Sylvia sat in the van while Nia came to get you. If Sylvia had been the one who came to drag you into the van, she might just as easily have resorted to violence.

Good point.

Why would you think that? That's like saying a person who's been in prison for a week (and hasn't had the reality of their situation sink in yet) is more desperate to get out than someone who's been in for twenty years, and who knows escape is the only way they're ever getting out. While both will be eager to escape, it's the latter who would be more desperate.

I respond with the same question Why would you think that? Thats a severe assumption.
You would assume that someone "who knows escape is the only way they're ever getting out" would've already tried it before, or has his/her mind more steeled for it.
A newbie would be a nervous mess, in an unfamiliar situation.

 

[TheDevian]

Why would you think that? That's like saying a person who's been in prison for a week (and hasn't had the reality of their situation sink in yet) is more desperate to get out than someone who's been in for twenty years, and who knows escape is the only way they're ever getting out. While both will be eager to escape, it's the latter who would be more desperate.

I kind of have to disagree with you here, in this case the latter is far more likely to have had their will broken from the years of abuse (or like Ann, has a case of Stockholm Syndrome) and likely other failed escape attempts, and is far more likely to think that their situation is inevitable.

 

[Corvus Belli]

That doesn't mean either one of them is any less aware of how bad things can get.

But it does mean they have less direct experience with it. Think of it as the difference between a person who knows they might be tortured and a person who has actually been tortured. Person A might think they're well aware of what's coming, but person B actually knows for fact.

I respond with the same question Why would you think that? Thats a severe assumption.

It's no more or less a severe assumption than your own.
Again, between a person who has a hypothetical awareness of how bad being a slave might get and a person who has long-term, first-hand experience of exactly how bad it gets, I'd contend the latter would have a more keenly felt desire for freedom, especially when that desire has been honed over literal centuries. YMMV, of course.

You would assume that someone "who knows escape is the only way they're ever getting out" would've already tried it before, or has his/her mind more steeled for it.

Nia has tried to escape slavery before, she mentions it to the MC; it's apparently rather difficult when your entire species is enslaved, and people can somehow tell if you've got an owner or not on sight. Her current plan of "be technically owned but free in all practical respects, to avoid inevitably being recaptured" is a new one, which she doesn't seem to have a huge amount of faith in; she seems to regard it as something of a Hail Mary, since it relies on a human not being an absolute bastard, and her experiences for the last few centuries have led her to believe that's highly unlikely.

A newbie would be a nervous mess, in an unfamiliar situation.

They absolutely would, and most often are. That doesn't mean their desire for freedom is felt more strongly than the person who knows the reality of long-term imprisonment; what it does mean is that they don't know what to expect, by definition of "unfamiliar".

 

[Corvus Belli]

I kind of have to disagree with you here, in this case the latter is far more likely to have had their will broken from the years of abuse and likely other failed escape attempts, and is far more likely to think that their situation is inevitable,

For many, yes, but in this analogy the long-term prisoner was intended as a representation of Nia. Does Nia strike you as someone whose will has been broken?

 

[TheDevian]

For many, yes, but in this analogy the long-term prisoner was intended as a representation of Nia. Does Nia strike you as someone whose will has been broken?

No, but 'Sui' did. Nia seems more like someone who chooses violence over discussion, someone who allows the actions of a few taint her opinion of all others, and in some ways, she is just as bad as the slavers who abused her people. Just because she is "punching up", doesn't make hurting the innocent right. Yes, we might be able to see where she is coming from, but she had proof that not all humans were like that, not only from what she saw with us and Lin in the contest, but from the laws that Cornwall was implementing and Ann's testimony, Ann might not have actually had her master's love, but he treated her well enough that she thought she did for a while.

I think the main point here is that it was a really fucked up way to ask for a favor. ESPECIALLY one that costs the person you are asking THAT much. Not only did he have to buy them, he also had to build a place for them to live (she doesn't know that Kali's dad helped, assuming you even did that part yet), but you are also taking a HUGE risk by helping her still go out and do her 'job'. Even considering that she also didn't know that before, she did know that she planned to keep using him as a cover for her 'work' and that he could get in trouble for that.

She could have done permanent damage or even killed him. It is one thing when you are left with no other options, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who use violence as their first choice of action.

 

[voyeurkind]

So who wins in a naked hot oil weestling match between Lin and Kali?

 

[jamdan]

So who wins in a naked hot oil weestling match between Lin and Kali?

We win.

 

[voyeurkind]

We win.

Hmm...and if we substituted chocolate syrup and whipped cream instead of hot oil and added a stipulation that the loser has to make the winner cum? And we put it on pay per view?

 

[Showii]

will this get some new updates or is it stuck on v0.9.2?

 

[Corvus Belli]

Nia seems more like someone who chooses violence over discussion, someone who allows the actions of a few taint her opinion of all others, and in some ways, she is just as bad as the slavers who abused her people.

She is a person who chooses violence, which given that she's been abused for longer than you and I will live combined, is not unreasonable. She allows the actions of the overwhelming majority, an entire culture which supports her enslavement, to cloud her opinions of the few outliers, which is a common behaviour; we derive our expectations of how we'll be treated in future based on our experiences of how we've been treated in the past, which in her case would be charitably described as "poorly".
And she is in no way, shape or form as bad as slavers; she hurt an innocent person, yes, but that's not directly comparable to centuries of slavery and rape. What she does is assault, which is a long way from "just as bad" as mass-slaughter and institutionalized sexual exploitation.

she had proof that not all humans were like that, not only from what she saw with us and Lin in the contest,

Which she interpreted (either correctly or not, depending on the player) as insincere and manipulatory rather than actual affection or love. The conversation while the MC is knocked out during his kidnapping makes clear she thought he was just hiding his true intent. Again, long-term abuse affects a person perception of their environment. She expects the worst, because in her centuries-long experience, that's what happens.

from the laws that Cornwall was implementing

Those laws still allow people to beat their slaves, and still say that elves are inferior to humans, no better than animals. In fact, if they have animal protection laws comparable to our own, elves are objectively treated more poorly than animals. The fact that those are considered an improvement over the treatment she received until now just highlights how badly she's been treated for the last few centuries.
When Cornwall "introduces" you to Sylvia at the challenge, he blatantly says that the only reason he hasn't beaten her yet is because he doesn't want to risk ruining the only High Elf. He also threatens to sell Sylvia to someone "less kind" if she doesn't sexually service him; it might be illegal to rape your slaves, but apparently it's not illegal to threaten their physical well-being if they won't let you fuck them.

I think the main point here is that it was a really fucked up way to ask for a favor.

Absolutely agree, without reservation, and I've never said otherwise. But again, three hundred years of experience that humans suck is probably pretty difficult to just put aside on the off-chance that this one is an exception. The only reason she's even wiling to entertain the possibility is that it's too tempting an opportunity to pass up; it's a chance at legal safety, but with far more freedom than she's had for a long time. But she also suspects the MC isn't as kind as Lin claims he is, and if you choose the Slave route, she's right.
It's also worth noting that Sylvia and Ann are both in favour of the whole "let's abduct him and then make our request while he's our prisoner" plan; it wasn't something Nia did solo.

It is one thing when you are left with no other options, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who use violence as their first choice of action.

She's been trying to gain her freedom for over three hundred years; what makes you think violence was her first choice? It's not even the first one we see; her deceit while posing as "Sui" is, and even that was only to "maybe" get a better master.
She choose violence as her way to drag you to the van, but how else do you kidnap a person?

 

[TheDevian]

Hmm...and if we substituted chocolate syrup and whipped cream instead of hot oil and added a stipulation that the loser has to make the winner cum? And we put it on pay per view?

And this is how Harem Hotel teaches us math!

will this get some new updates or is it stuck on v0.9.2?

She is a person who chooses violence, which given that she's been abused for longer than you and I will live combined, is not unreasonable. She allows the actions of the overwhelming majority, an entire culture which supports her enslavement, to cloud her opinions of the few outliers, which is a common behaviour; we derive our expectations of how we'll be treated in future based on our experiences of how we've been treated in the past, which in her case would be charitably described as "poorly".
And she is in no way, shape or form as bad as slavers; she hurt an innocent person, yes, but that's not directly comparable to centuries of slavery and rape. What she does is assault, which is a long way from "just as bad" as mass-slaughter and institutionalized sexual exploitation.

Two wrongs do not make a right. As I said, we can understand her motivations, but that doesn't make her actions justified in this case, no. While much of what she does it justified, attacking the person you want to help you is a fucking stupid thing to do, most people would not have been so nice about it, and would NOT have helped her after that. I know when people attack me, the last thing I want to do it help them and be nice about it. Unless I know you really well, if you want my help, you need to be asking nicely.

I said in some ways, when you are out hurting innocent people, yes, that is bad, no matter how you look at it. The slavers hurt innocents for bad reasons, she is hurting innocents for occasionally bad reasons.

Which she interpreted (either correctly or not, depending on the player) as insincere and manipulatory rather than actual affection or love. The conversation while the MC is knocked out during his kidnapping makes clear she thought he was just hiding his true intent. Again, long-term abuse affects a person perception of their environment. She expects the worst, because in her centuries-long experience, that's what happens.

Yes, and attacking people first, and asking for help later, is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you treat people badly, you have to expect that treatment in return, it is partly your fault. You can't expect people you attack to be nice to you.

Those laws still allow people to beat their slaves, and still say that elves are inferior to humans, no better than animals. In fact, if they have animal protection laws comparable to our own, elves are objectively treated more poorly than animals. The fact that those are considered an improvement over the treatment she received until now just highlights how badly she's been treated for the last few centuries.
When Cornwall "introduces" you to Sylvia at the challenge, he blatantly says that the only reason he hasn't beaten her yet is because he doesn't want to risk ruining the only High Elf. He also threatens to sell Sylvia to someone "less kind" if she doesn't sexually service him; it might be illegal to rape your slaves, but apparently it's not illegal to threaten their physical well-being if they won't let you fuck them.

Yes, he only just started to make those changes, especially in the eyes of a long lived elf. To an elf, those changes might as well have just happened last week.
I think the violence is a lot more restricted than it used to be, but I admit, my memory is a bit fuzzy at the moment. They used to be able to rape them, beat them, or whatever, but that is starting to change, and that contest was part of the catalyst for some bigger changes to come. Check out the Toymaker if you want to see where things end up without that contest.

Absolutely agree, without reservation, and I've never said otherwise. But again, three hundred years of experience that humans suck is probably pretty difficult to just put aside on the off-chance that this one is an exception. The only reason she's even wiling to entertain the possibility is that it's too tempting an opportunity to pass up; it's a chance at legal safety, but with far more freedom than she's had for a long time. But she also suspects the MC isn't as kind as Lin claims he is, and if you choose the Slave route, she's right.
It's also worth noting that Sylvia and Ann are both in favour of the whole "let's abduct him and then make our request while he's our prisoner" plan; it wasn't something Nia did solo.

Even choosing the slave route, he is far kinder than most, a bj once in a while for free room and board, food, utilities, the gear to help her quest, and otherwise she gets to do almost anything she wants. Don't get me wrong, it is still a cage, but it is quite gilded. If she wanted, she could sit around all day, watching TV like Sylvia, and pigging out, for a few blow jobs. While that is still not the best life, I have had jobs I hated more than be forced to go down on some attractive woman, and I was in pain every day I finished, as if I had been beaten, all for minimum wage, so I was lucky if I could even eat once a day after all that. My days off, sometimes I wasn't able to eat at all. So, you know, it could be worse.

It wasn't just Lin, Sylvia also saw that we were not bed, even if she didn't care to admit it at first. For example, I was find with letting her be 'free', but she didn't want to be, but Lin is a slave in name only. '

As for Ann's old master, yes he was not honest, but she was still kept like a treasured prize, and not mistreated like Ms. Ren when Ashley's father had access to her.

She's been trying to gain her freedom for over three hundred years; what makes you think violence was her first choice? It's not even the first one we see; her deceit while posing as "Sui" is, and even that was only to "maybe" get a better master.
She choose violence as her way to drag you to the van, but how else do you kidnap a person?

No, if she wanted her freedom, she could have left the cities, or even the country. No, she chose to stay so that she could try to free as many of her people as she could. She is part of the underground railroad after all, so she could have gotten out a long time ago if she had wanted.

She has been trying to get a favor from us for 1 day not 300 years, she did not try to talk to us, she did not ask for a favor, she did not talk to Lin to get her to help, she went straight for the one most likely to cause brain damage, or potentially killing the person they wanted to get to help them.

Oh, I don't know, tie them up, put them in a bag, maybe use duct tape, some kind of drug, or again, you know, use her words...

All I am saying is that after that we deserve some payback, at the very least she owes us an apology, and with out it, I will continue to think of her as a 'bad girl' who needs to be punished.

 

[Deleted member 929426]

will this get some new updates or is it stuck on v0.9.2?

Spoiler: A little Search goes a long way

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[Corvus Belli]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I didn't say it was right, I said it's understandable; there's a world of difference.

attacking the person you want to help you is a fucking stupid thing to do

I didn't say otherwise. But again, doing something stupid does not make her "just as bad" as slavers.
Even if she hadn't hurt the MC, their plan was still to abduct him, bundle him into their getaway van, and take him to their hideout. Sylvia and Ann both knew that was the plan, so aren't they equally culpable for the MC getting smacked upside the head? It's was clearly a bad plan, but it wasn't just her idea, and it's not like she thought hurting him would predispose him to do as they asked; it's that she couldn't think of any way to abduct someone much bigger than she is without use of force.
How would you ask for the MC's help in her position? They don't trust him, which is why they disguise themselves, and if they just turn up at his place and say "hey, we're escaped slaves, we could use your help" what guarantee do they have that he won't turn them in? How would you ask for his help without exposing yourself?

I said in some ways, when you are out hurting innocent people, yes, that is bad, no matter how you look at it.

I didn't say it wasn't bad; I said it wasn't anywhere near as bad; the degree of difference makes them essentially incomparable.
Compare the harm done by a single mugger to the harm done during the Trail of Tears, or the Rape of Nanking, or the Holocaust, or the Holodomor, or Stalin's Purges; do you think that hypothetical mugger is just as bad as any of those events?

If you treat people badly, you have to expect that treatment in return, it is partly your fault.

Agreed, but imagine being Nia; imagine how badly she's been treated by every human she's ever known, imagine how many times she probably met a human who seemed nicer but ultimately proved to be just as bad. Do you think she should still give people the benefit of the doubt, when she's got over three hundred years of experience telling her all humans are alike?

Yes, he only just started to make those changes, especially in the eyes of a long lived elf. To an elf, those changes might as well have just happened last week.

Exactly, and they can all be undone by the next person to hold his position, and given her fatalistic worldview, she likely fully expects that to happen. From her perspective, relying on the laws he passed (laws which are stated to have been controversial) to keep her safe is a terrible idea.

I think the violence is a lot more restricted than it used to be, but I admit, my memory is a bit fuzzy at the moment.

It's a little unclear exactly HOW things are better now, even though we're told they are. Cornwall prevents Mr. Jason forcing Sui to engage in anal sex, but was perfectly willing to watch her get forced to give oral and vaginal sex, despite her obvious reluctance; he clearly threatens to give Sylvia to someone who'll treat her worse than he does when she refuses to do what he wants, but also relents when she refuses to have anal sex with him; he has absolutely no problem forcing Lin to expose herself in public no matter what she or the MC want, and threatens to revoke your license if you don't comply. It's all very inconsistent, because Runey is telling a story, not trying to formulate an internally consistent legal structure.

and that contest was part of the catalyst for some bigger changes to come.

Nia doesn't know that, and therefore can't make decisions that factor that into her thought process; in-universe no-one knows what the future holds. Some few people know Cornwall's intent, but unlike the audience, they've not heard from the creator of their world (Runey) what the future holds, and they didn't see "The Toymaker".

Even choosing the slave route, he is far kinder than most, a bj once in a while for free room and board, food, utilities,

"Kinder than most" is not the same as kind, nor is it moral. An organization that helps teen runaways avoid homelessness, and all they ask in return is the occasional blowjob might be "better than being homeless" but it's also absolutely immoral.
The fact that the Slave route is unquestionably, and substantially, better than the lives of most elves just underscores how terrible their lives actually are.
Even Ann, who acknowledged that she had a better life than most and seemed to think well of the MC, said during the kidnapping "even if he accepts, there's no guarantee he'll treat us any better". She knows the way she's been treated has been poor, even if it was better than most elves got.

It wasn't just Lin, Sylvia also saw that we were not bed, even if she didn't care to admit it at first.

Sylvia saw that the MC wasn't as bad as most other masters, that's not the same thing. If it were an option, she'd absolutely choose "not be a slave".

She could have gotten out a long time ago if she had wanted.

She couldn't afford a plane or boat ticket, she couldn't exactly swim across the ocean, and she mentions running away in the past and being caught again, so I don't think "leave the cities" works as easily as you imagine. Remember, there are no elves outside of Syl'anar other than Kali's step-mother and the elves her father used for his experiments, which kind of suggests there's not a lot of successful escape attempts.
As for being part of the underground railroad, remember she doesn't get those slaves to freedom, she gets them to better masters. That implies that "actual freedom" isn't really an option, or that's the one she (and others) would have picked.
Nia didn't chose to remain a slave to help others escape; she helps others get away from bad masters because she wants to help, even if "liberation" isn't an option.

She has been trying to get a favor from us for 1 day not 300 years,

Yes, that's her interaction with the MC; but her decision making process is absolutely going to be affected by the three hundred years before that meeting, during which she learned how little humans value her as an actual person. I thought that was implied, but perhaps it was less clear than I intended.

Oh, I don't know, tie them up, put them in a bag, maybe use duct tape, some kind of drug, or again, you know, use her words...

How do you tie them up and put them in a bag against their will without using violence? Do you expect them to go along with the abduction willingly? What should she have said, "You don't know me, and don't worry about the mask, but I'm going to need you to put this bag over your head while I ziptie your hands and take you to my secret hideout"?
I agree that "baseball bat to the head" was an extreme over-reaction, but I'm legitimately curious how you'd tie someone up, throw a bag over their head and bundle them into a waiting van without violence or the threat of violence to compel their co-operation. Again "let's kidnap him" was not a good plan, but the instant it was they plan they went with, violence was an inevitability.

All I am saying is that after that we deserve some payback, at the very least she owes us an apology, and with out it, I will continue to think of her as a 'bad girl' who needs to be punished.

Oh, she absolutely owes us a sincere apology, as does Sylvia for her holier-than-thou attitude towards Lin (I'm more salty over that than I am the blow to the head, to be honest), but I don't feel the need for "payback". Put me in Nia's position, I'd be even more suspicious and hostile than she is.
Personally, it's why I chose the Love route without hesitation; my hope is it's the route in which she'll truly apologise for her actions, while the Slave route would likely feel like she's just saying what you want to hear.

 

[DrFree]

Yes, we might be able to see where she is coming from, but she had proof that not all humans were like that, not only from what she saw with us and Lin in the contest, but from the laws that Cornwall was implementing and Ann's testimony, Ann might not have actually had her master's love, but he treated her well enough that she thought she did for a while.

You just made me realize, there is a far better example of this in her vigilante backstory: She has a contact that finds better homes for elves that are being dangerously mistreated right?
That alone is plenty of evidence to know that there are indeed humans willing to help her.

Or maybe she appears with a baseball bat to threaten him/her every so often. I can see it.
Corvus Belli You keep making an argument about where she is coming from, but that isn't the problem. We get it. She is scared.
She still bashed an innocent man's head with a baseball bat, and doesn't even treat him any particularly better after that (except physical violence)
You get her new vigilante clothes and she just tells you "YOU DON'T GET IT, DAAAD" when checking up on her.

This reminds me of the argument about Shinji in Evangelion. Yeah, I get it, he is a troubled teenager pushed into an extremely dangerous situation situation. That doesn't make me like him as a person. My problem with him isn't his character not making sense, my problem is that I don't like him.
And I like Nia better anyway.
Edit: About the "how to kidnap" question: They are 3. Get him when he is out alone. Make 1 distract him i front. The other 2 behind put something in his mouth (jump on his back) and throw him in the floor. Tie him up then carry him to the van.
Presto. A fresh fucktoy master to sell yourself to!
(I know there is a degree of violence here, but its still better than a concussion)

 

[Deleted member 289409]

Remember, there are no elves outside of Syl'anar other than Kali's step-mother and the elves her father used for his experiments

Not entirely true remember Sylvia's people the High Elves never lived in Syl'anar but on a currently unknown island somewhere outside of Syl'anar from what I can remember anyway, been a while since I last had a chance to play the game.

 

[harem - king]

go into her room and choose (exhibition) goto beach, this isnt triggered until the *talk* invite to beach.

Thank you for this. I was able to get to the (current) end of Maria's story. An issue that I have now is with the rape role-play scene trigger with Kali. I have Maria as a bartender so I don't ever seem to be able to trigger the scene as the work schedules for Kali and Maria are the same. Is there an easy way to give Maria the night off from bartending or something?

 

[Deleted member 289409]

How do you tie them up and put them in a bag against their will without using violence?

I can think of one way catch them when their alone sneak up behind them with a handkerchief doused in chloroform which is odorless and a very fast acting and powerful anesthetic as well as being easy to come by.

 

[DrFree]

Not entirely true remember Sylvia's people the High Elves never lived in Syl'anar but on a currently unknown island somewhere outside of Syl'anar

I think she never considered them a choice.

I can think of one way catch them when their alone sneak up behind them with a handkerchief doused in chloroform which is odorless and a very fast acting and powerful anesthetic as well as being easy to come by.

I will grant Nia this one: I seriously doubt she can get that as a runaway elf. Maybe with some contacts, but I always assumed they were against the clock here.

 

[TheDevian]

I didn't say it was right, I said it's understandable; there's a world of difference.

I have said, most of us understand why she did it and her reasoning, but as the injured party, we feel some compensation is due.

I didn't say otherwise. But again, doing something stupid does not make her "just as bad" as slavers.
Even if she hadn't hurt the MC, their plan was still to abduct him, bundle him into their getaway van, and take him to their hideout. Sylvia and Ann both knew that was the plan, so aren't they equally culpable for the MC getting smacked upside the head? It's was clearly a bad plan, but it wasn't just her idea, and it's not like she thought hurting him would predispose him to do as they asked; it's that she couldn't think of any way to abduct someone much bigger than she is without use of force.
How would you ask for the MC's help in her position? They don't trust him, which is why they disguise themselves, and if they just turn up at his place and say "hey, we're escaped slaves, we could use your help" what guarantee do they have that he won't turn them in? How would you ask for his help without exposing yourself?

Again, there ar tools and skills that she clearly has, that can assist in the abduction.
And again, as I said before, they could have talked to Lin if they did not trust the player enough. Sylvia already did that and knows we would not have done anything to her, and we let we walk in and out without hassle.

I didn't say it wasn't bad; I said it wasn't anywhere near as bad; the degree of difference makes them essentially incomparable.
Compare the harm done by a single mugger to the harm done during the Trail of Tears, or the Rape of Nanking, or the Holocaust, or the Holodomor, or Stalin's Purges; do you think that hypothetical mugger is just as bad as any of those events?

Again, I said "in some ways", not all, there is a world of difference there too. Intentionally hurting innocent people is despicable, whether your motivation is greed, lust, or misplaced revenge.

Agreed, but imagine being Nia; imagine how badly she's been treated by every human she's ever known, imagine how many times she probably met a human who seemed nicer but ultimately proved to be just as bad. Do you think she should still give people the benefit of the doubt, when she's got over three hundred years of experience telling her all humans are alike?

I have been bullied most of my non-adult life, and even a bit of that. I have been beaten many times, threatened with guns in my own home, robbed more times than I care to count, screwed over at work, and more, yet I don't treat everyone like they were one of the people who hurt me.

Exactly, and they can all be undone by the next person to hold his position, and given her fatalistic worldview, she likely fully expects that to happen. From her perspective, relying on the laws he passed (laws which are stated to have been controversial) to keep her safe is a terrible idea.

That wasn't my point, it was to show that not all humans are bad, and she knows this. Cornwall himself isn't the best guy, but he has people who are spending their lives doing everything they can to convince him that he needs to change, and they are succeeding, more so now that the contest is over.

It's a little unclear exactly HOW things are better now, even though we're told they are. Cornwall prevents Mr. Jason forcing Sui to engage in anal sex, but was perfectly willing to watch her get forced to give oral and vaginal sex, despite her obvious reluctance; he clearly threatens to give Sylvia to someone who'll treat her worse than he does when she refuses to do what he wants, but also relents when she refuses to have anal sex with him; he has absolutely no problem forcing Lin to expose herself in public no matter what she or the MC want, and threatens to revoke your license if you don't comply. It's all very inconsistent, because Runey is telling a story, not trying to formulate an internally consistent legal structure.

She was not exactly forced, she technically agreed to it. Sylvia translated for them. Yes she was threatened, but we also don't know what he meant by treat her worse, and we also know that 'Sui' was taken from her guy due to the perceived threats, so she knows those rules are effective.

Nia doesn't know that, and therefore can't make decisions that factor that into her thought process; in-universe no-one knows what the future holds. Some few people know Cornwall's intent, but unlike the audience, they've not heard from the creator of their world (Runey) what the future holds, and they didn't see "The Toymaker".

No, but you can. I wasn't says that she should, just showing how worse it could be and was before these rules were put in place, which IS something she would know and we would not.

"Kinder than most" is not the same as kind, nor is it moral. An organization that helps teen runaways avoid homelessness, and all they ask in return is the occasional blowjob might be "better than being homeless" but it's also absolutely immoral.
The fact that the Slave route is unquestionably, and substantially, better than the lives of most elves just underscores how terrible their lives actually are.
Even Ann, who acknowledged that she had a better life than most and seemed to think well of the MC, said during the kidnapping "even if he accepts, there's no guarantee he'll treat us any better". She knows the way she's been treated has been poor, even if it was better than most elves got.

Morals are set by each society. Not a good word here, and not really relevant to the discussion. That is again assuming the slave route, which again, is still an easy life, compared to what you are suggesting her life was like before, constantly being beaten, raped, abused, used as slave labor, and more. Compared to that, it's not that bad.
Spend 300 years in that situation, and see if that doesn't feel like a godsend.

Sylvia saw that the MC wasn't as bad as most other masters, that's not the same thing. If it were an option, she'd absolutely choose "not be a slave".

As would most, but again, that is not the point, she already knew that she had to have a master at this point, she knew that he let her walk in, make demands of him, and then let her walk out without doing a thing to her. This is about her knowing that she could go talk to him, and ask him a favor, without having to worry about him doing something mean to her. She already lived it.

She couldn't afford a plane or boat ticket, she couldn't exactly swim across the ocean, and she mentions running away in the past and being caught again, so I don't think "leave the cities" works as easily as you imagine. Remember, there are no elves outside of Syl'anar other than Kali's step-mother and the elves her father used for his experiments, which kind of suggests there's not a lot of successful escape attempts.
As for being part of the underground railroad, remember she doesn't get those slaves to freedom, she gets them to better masters. That implies that "actual freedom" isn't really an option, or that's the one she (and others) would have picked.
Nia didn't chose to remain a slave to help others escape; she helps others get away from bad masters because she wants to help, even if "liberation" isn't an option.

She has access to a network of spies who do exactly that, so yes, she could. Do you really think those people charge all of the abuse elves she saves to transport them to safety? No, I doubt that very much, and since she is part of their network, they would help her, for sure.
You are forgetting that there is one other nation of elves that we know of, there could very easily be pockets of other places where free elves live in secret, we don't know.
We only know what the player knows, and he is not the most informed guy about this stuff. If they are living in secret, they are not going to advertise their location.

Yes, that's her interaction with the MC; but her decision making process is absolutely going to be affected by the three hundred years before that meeting, during which she learned how little humans value her as an actual person. I thought that was implied, but perhaps it was less clear than I intended.

That is not his fault that she is racist. Racism is bad, m'kay. No matter how good you think your reasons are.

How do you tie them up and put them in a bag against their will without using violence? Do you expect them to go along with the abduction willingly? What should she have said, "You don't know me, and don't worry about the mask, but I'm going to need you to put this bag over your head while I ziptie your hands and take you to my secret hideout"?
I agree that "baseball bat to the head" was an extreme over-reaction, but I'm legitimately curious how you'd tie someone up, throw a bag over their head and bundle them into a waiting van without violence or the threat of violence to compel their co-operation. Again "let's kidnap him" was not a good plan, but the instant it was they plan they went with, violence was an inevitability.

I stated before, there are skills, drugs, tools, and other things that could help. And there were three of them. They had the advantage if you ignore our security who was not doing her job at the time. XD

Oh, she absolutely owes us a sincere apology, as does Sylvia for her holier-than-thou attitude towards Lin (I'm more salty over that than I am the blow to the head, to be honest), but I don't feel the need for "payback". Put me in Nia's position, I'd be even more suspicious and hostile than she is.
Personally, it's why I chose the Love route without hesitation; my hope is it's the route in which she'll truly apologise for her actions, while the Slave route would likely feel like she's just saying what you want to hear.

Suspicion is fine, and very appropriate, but if you are willing to attack an innocent person just because you think there is a chance that they might do something to you, than I am glad I don't know you IRL. I am sorry, but there is no way that is justifiable.

I only chose the slave route for Ann, and that was only because she was scared to be 'free', so like Lin, I keep the illusion of slavery over her for her own piece of mind. That said, I still bought 'Sui' last, and Sylvia second to last.

I think she never considered them a choice.

I will grant Nia this one: I seriously doubt she can get that as a runaway elf. Maybe with some contacts, but I always assumed they were against the clock here.

Really, so you think she can raid the homes of rich humans with security and make off with their slaves, but can't rob a drug store?

 

[Deleted member 289409]

I will grant Nia this one: I seriously doubt she can get that as a runaway elf. Maybe with some contacts, but I always assumed they were against the clock here.

Easily available from online stores, hospitals and some pharmacies.