VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.18 Beta3] [Runey]

[QQP_Purple]

Came to say something similar.
Really not a fan of the whole "anti-slavery revolution" plot line.

The main problem is, these sorts of topics are pretty serious, and they need to be treated with a certain amount of gravitas to them.

Honestly I think you are wrong.

Everything you say is true for the real world. Nobody is going to contest that. But if you want to reach people with a message, even one as simple as slavery = bad, you have to package it in a medium that's actually enjoyable to the target audience. Especially if you want to make a living out of it as well. And this requires sacrificing some realism for the purpose of actually having a good product.

If the author were to actually do what you say the product would indeed be more realistic but it would make for a very unemployable story and a worse game. A realistic portrayal of the situation and the actual options available in such a situation would literally be so grim, hopeless and unpleasant that nobody would want to play the game.

And if nobody wants to play your game than you don't get your message across and you don't earn money to eat.

At the same time, a realistic portrayal is not at all required to get the message across. He does not have to create the equivalent of a concentration camp video in order to get us understand the message presented. All it takes is for him to make us emotionally connect to the victims. And that he has done well enough.

 

[DigDug69]

Came to say something similar.
Really not a fan of the whole "anti-slavery revolution" plot line.

The main problem is, these sorts of topics are pretty serious, and they need to be treated with a certain amount of gravitas to them. Currently going through the event where

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and I can't help but think that this whole event is just an enormous bunch of naive wishful thinking.

I've seen how anti-communist protests looked like in my country. There's no way that 20 college kids would start anything meaningful enough to bring about any change. The truth of the matter is, the police wouldn't even need to shoot them, they would just beat them unconscious, arrest them, then drag them into some secluded interrogation room, and only then continue with the real handiwork. The father, telling his subordinates to lower their guns when he sees his daughter? That's not happening. He has someone above him - if he's the chief in town, then it's the chief of the regional police. If he's the regional chief, then it's the central command. If the state is this hell-bent on stopping anything pertaining to the anti-slavery movement, this sort of social unrest would make national news within an hour, and then the chief head of the police would be coming down on this guy's ass, because if he didn't, then the politicians would be coming down on his.

And the best part is - the dad-policeman would know this. So sure, he might not use live ammo, but he would definitely not stand around for hours on end, just waiting till the college kids get bored with their terrorism make-believe, and instead would just tell his subordinates to overpower a bunch of teenage girls and make quick work of them within a couple of hours.

The whole event relies on the premise that the public opinion already does not condone the idea of slavery. If the public opinion did condone the institution, the media being there would mean exactly squat, as the police would catch more flak for not dealing swiftly with the wannabe terrorists, rather than for being violent with them. And if the public opinion does not, in fact, condone slavery, then there's no point in any revolutions in the first place - you just need to get the word out and connect people together, something which would be already happening sporadically on the internet and in the public spaces.

Instead, we get a feeling that any criticism of the current slavery system is being heavily censored... While at the same time being told that this system is being condoned by the society - you don't need state censorship in a system that is approved by the society.

What the author has created, to me, seems like a world where the government unilaterally introduced the institution of slavery, with most people disagreeing with it, but for some reason they are also at the same time convinced that everyone else condones it - which implies heavy use of social engineering and governmental propaganda, which in turn implies that the world has much bigger issues than just elves being enslaved.

And all of these topics are entirely fine to explore in fiction - but not in a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks in a hotel, inherited from his grandpa. In order to treat these issues with proper respect, you need to plan for this sort of shit from the very beginning and design your story around these concepts - instead, this seems like the author just blindly stumbled into this storyline, and continues to dig deeper, to reach God only knows what.

I loved this story first, and I didn't mind some of the heavier plot lines here and there, but this whole anti-slavery revolution storyline has definitely been a turning point for the worse. I was hoping the author would drop it at some point, but I see that the whole thing just keeps escalating, with the author seemingly not understanding the gravitas of such social movements.

Gandhi leading peaceful protests were a major factor in getting Britain to leave India.
And it was not the whole world that allowed slavery, there are places where it is not allowed.

P.S. It is a fantasy game, not reality, and never was intended to be a copy of the real world.

 

[Tuatha Dé]

apart from the android there is no change to past events, right?

 

[Zoran89]

Congratulations... you just discovered that fiction and reality aren't the same...

I know that this may seem alien to you, especially considering the type of dogshit that the media has been feeding us for the past couple of years, but fiction is supposed to mirror reality, at least to a certain extent. And when it's not doing that, it's supposed to serve some purpose, usually to elicit some sort of emotion within the audience.

This storyline is neither fun, not insightful. It's not deep, it's not eliciting the feelings of dread, seriousness, sadness, joy, excitement - the only emotion I get from these scenes is annoyance. Annoyance with Lin, for being a complete dumbass about starting these things. Annoyance with the story, for having to struggle through it, with progressively dwindling hopes that it will ever get back to the light-hearted fun that made me like this game in the first place. And annoyance with the author, because of how shallow and naive his approach to these issues is.

So, by all means, enlighten me as to the purpose of these events in the overarching narrative?
Because to me, it just seems like the author is trying to make something that appears deep, without actually creating anything deep.

 

[QQP_Purple]

I know that this may seem alien to you, especially considering the type of dogshit that the media has been feeding us for the past couple of years, but fiction is supposed to mirror reality, at least to a certain extent. And when it's not doing that, it's supposed to serve some purpose, usually to elicit some sort of emotion within the audience.

This storyline is neither fun, not insightful. It's not deep, it's not eliciting the feelings of dread, seriousness, sadness, joy, excitement - the only emotion I get from these scenes is annoyance. Annoyance with Lin, for being a complete dumbass about starting these things. Annoyance with the story, for having to struggle through it, with progressively dwindling hopes that it will ever get back to the light-hearted fun that made me like this game in the first place. And annoyance with the author, because of how shallow and naive his approach to these issues is.

So, by all means, enlighten me as to the purpose of these events in the overarching narrative?
Because to me, it just seems like the author is trying to make something that appears deep, without actually creating anything deep.

TLDR. We care for her ergo we already have deep feelings about the injustice of it all. It comes with the territory. However the game also has to have a happy ending and some sort of closure, no matter how insanely unrealistic that is. So there has to be a compromise somewhere.

 

[Uthuriel]

I know that this may seem alien to you, especially considering the type of dogshit that the media has been feeding us for the past couple of years, but fiction is supposed to mirror reality, at least to a certain extent. And when it's not doing that, it's supposed to serve some purpose, usually to elicit some sort of emotion within the audience.

This storyline is neither fun, not insightful. It's not deep, it's not eliciting the feelings of dread, seriousness, sadness, joy, excitement - the only emotion I get from these scenes is annoyance. Annoyance with Lin, for being a complete dumbass about starting these things. Annoyance with the story, for having to struggle through it, with progressively dwindling hopes that it will ever get back to the light-hearted fun that made me like this game in the first place. And annoyance with the author, because of how shallow and naive his approach to these issues is.

So, by all means, enlighten me as to the purpose of these events in the overarching narrative?
Because to me, it just seems like the author is trying to make something that appears deep, without actually creating anything deep.

I'm not wasting my time on you...
It's simple.
You like the game... you stay.
If not... leave.

 

[QQP_Purple]

I'm not wasting my time on you...
It's simple.
You like the game... you stay.
If not... leave.

Don't be like that. Reasonable criticism is reasonable. Like, he has a point. We just happen to disagree with that point. And even than only up to a point. Because up to a point he does have a point worth pointing out.

But that is no reason to become territorial.

 

[Runey]

Came to say something similar.
Really not a fan of the whole "anti-slavery revolution" plot line.

This is kind of very separate from the rest of this post. I can't do anything about your preferences, all I can do is tell you to look elsewhere for your preferences in this regard. Or just keep playing and sit through it. Not much is going to change.

But the rest of your comments seem like genuine criticism of the event, which I will happily address.

The main problem is, these sorts of topics are pretty serious, and they need to be treated with a certain amount of gravitas to them. Currently going through the event where

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and I can't help but think that this whole event is just an enormous bunch of naive wishful thinking.

Certainly, and I do. I've done a quite insane amount of research on every topic you see in this game, so please understand that I am not just throwing stuff at the wall.

I've seen how anti-communist protests looked like in my country. There's no way that 20 college kids would start anything meaningful enough to bring about any change. The truth of the matter is, the police wouldn't even need to shoot them, they would just beat them unconscious, arrest them, then drag them into some secluded interrogation room, and only then continue with the real handiwork. The father, telling his subordinates to lower their guns when he sees his daughter? That's not happening. He has someone above him - if he's the chief in town, then it's the chief of the regional police. If he's the regional chief, then it's the central command. If the state is this hell-bent on stopping anything pertaining to the anti-slavery movement, this sort of social unrest would make national news within an hour, and then the chief head of the police would be coming down on this guy's ass, because if he didn't, then the politicians would be coming down on his.

And the best part is - the dad-policeman would know this. So sure, he might not use live ammo, but he would definitely not stand around for hours on end, just waiting till the college kids get bored with their terrorism make-believe, and instead would just tell his subordinates to overpower a bunch of teenage girls and make quick work of them within a couple of hours.

You really have to read between the lines in a lot of these events. I don't want to plainly state every rule and cultural taboo, I want you to get a "feel" of it, which certainly can result in some confusion, but that confusion is also sort of be the point since you fill the shoes of an immigrant who doesn't understand the laws or culture.

But I think you have to be one sick motherfucker to give the order to shoot at your own daughter, fake bullets included. I would think it much more unrealistic if the chief of police would threaten his own children physical safety. And he was pretty close to it too, but his humanity won over in that moment. But he even says this is out of his control, like you mention, he just isn't willing to risk physically harm his own daughter, and I think that's very relatable. And who knows, the chief of police may get fired after this. This is a story where change like that is absolutely possible.

But come on, terrorism make-believe? Teenage girls? I cannot take you seriously like this. This is a protest of 20-somethings.

The whole event relies on the premise that the public opinion already does not condone the idea of slavery.

It is actually the complete opposite, it is established that most people very much do want slavery. Syl'anar is a democratic republic, so slavery can be voted out, they just like it.

If the public opinion did condone the institution, the media being there would mean exactly squat, as the police would catch more flak for not dealing swiftly with the wannabe terrorists, rather than for being violent with them. And if the public opinion does not, in fact, condone slavery, then there's no point in any revolutions in the first place - you just need to get the word out and connect people together, something which would be already happening sporadically on the internet and in the public spaces.

In the event, it is made clear that the chief of police is keenly aware of how this situation is constantly getting worse for them, this was something I intentionally wrote.

Again, very confused about how literal anti-slavery protesters are terrorists in your eyes, you really lose A LOT of credibility when you say stuff like this. Like, you want the police the beat these people up but you think the ones being trapped are terrorists? What.

But you seem to be under the impression that I didn't intentionally write the scene as it was written, I wrote the media in to show the police fucking up so the citizens of Syl'anar would begin to sympathize with Lin. I understand that you are confused, but I am fine with explaining things to you. It's why I'm here.

Instead, we get a feeling that any criticism of the current slavery system is being heavily censored... While at the same time being told that this system is being condoned by the society - you don't need state censorship in a system that is approved by the society.

You do. Hitler did this. It's text-book authoritarian. Oppress the minority so your grasp of power is never threatened.

There have been 3 elvish uprisings, they are very well aware that slaves don't like being slaves, and considering they are 33% of the population, a civil war would be bad.

What the author has created, to me, seems like a world where the government unilaterally introduced the institution of slavery, with most people disagreeing with it, but for some reason they are also at the same time convinced that everyone else condones it - which implies heavy use of social engineering and governmental propaganda, which in turn implies that the world has much bigger issues than just elves being enslaved.

To be clear, people want slavery, this stems from ancient religious beliefs, the government made it law. There is heavy use of social engineering and government propaganda, you've seen it in game. And yes, this world does have much bigger issues than just elves being enslaves. Yes, Harem Hotel was never just about slavery. It's also a story about poverty, power, greed, religion, and so much more.

And all of these topics are entirely fine to explore in fiction - but not in a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks in a hotel, inherited from his grandpa. In order to treat these issues with proper respect, you need to plan for this sort of shit from the very beginning and design your story around these concepts - instead, this seems like the author just blindly stumbled into this storyline, and continues to dig deeper, to reach God only knows what.

What on earth gave you the impression that this is supposed to be a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks? Literally nothing about that in game would suggest it, you even seem to understand that inherintently. What you're really saying is that you wish it were a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks. It never has been. I have always planned for this shit from the very beginning. You seem very confused.

 

[Runey]

Oh! I recently recovered this game and I must say that, for only v.017 there is an absurd amount of material, good job! Anyway, how sweet is Lin?! my favorite character without a doubt! perhaps the only thing I would like to see a little different are the interactions of the protagonist, that is, he tends to have too sudden changes of character (apart from the moments in which we can choose what to say). I love all the characters, as well as the story is really interesting to me, I just wish the protagonist had a little more defined character. (I don't know if I explained myself well... anyway, too curious to know how things will go on!)

Thank you for the kind words! Where have you noticed these inconsistencies specifically? I would love to address them. But I do try to make it a point to make him more of a fill-in, and not an actual character.

 

[QQP_Purple]

What on earth gave you the impression that this is supposed to be a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks? Literally nothing about that in game would suggest it, you even seem to understand that inherintently. What you're really saying is that you wish it were a light-hearted porn game about a dude boning ten chicks. It never has been. I have always planned for this shit from the very beginning. You seem very confused.

Personally I kind of got that message by the time you introduced literal chattel slavery in act 1, scene 1.

 

[DigDug69]

I know that this may seem alien to you, especially considering the type of dogshit that the media has been feeding us for the past couple of years, but fiction is supposed to mirror reality, at least to a certain extent. And when it's not doing that, it's supposed to serve some purpose, usually to elicit some sort of emotion within the audience.

This storyline is neither fun, not insightful. It's not deep, it's not eliciting the feelings of dread, seriousness, sadness, joy, excitement - the only emotion I get from these scenes is annoyance. Annoyance with Lin, for being a complete dumbass about starting these things. Annoyance with the story, for having to struggle through it, with progressively dwindling hopes that it will ever get back to the light-hearted fun that made me like this game in the first place. And annoyance with the author, because of how shallow and naive his approach to these issues is.

So, by all means, enlighten me as to the purpose of these events in the overarching narrative?
Because to me, it just seems like the author is trying to make something that appears deep, without actually creating anything deep.

So wait, you are saying that Harry Potter is real?
If fiction is supposed to be modeled after reality, then that has to be true, by your standards.
Oh, and this game is fantasy and it and Harry Potter are not fiction, they take place on fantasy worlds that have elves and fairies.

Fiction takes place on worlds that are very similar to the real world.
We do not have elves, fairies, mermaids or any of the other "FANTASY" creatures that are in this game...

Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan series is fiction.
Harem Hotel is fantasy.

 

[Runey]

I know that this may seem alien to you, especially considering the type of dogshit that the media has been feeding us for the past couple of years, but fiction is supposed to mirror reality, at least to a certain extent. And when it's not doing that, it's supposed to serve some purpose, usually to elicit some sort of emotion within the audience.

This storyline is neither fun, not insightful. It's not deep, it's not eliciting the feelings of dread, seriousness, sadness, joy, excitement - the only emotion I get from these scenes is annoyance. Annoyance with Lin, for being a complete dumbass about starting these things. Annoyance with the story, for having to struggle through it, with progressively dwindling hopes that it will ever get back to the light-hearted fun that made me like this game in the first place. And annoyance with the author, because of how shallow and naive his approach to these issues is.

So, by all means, enlighten me as to the purpose of these events in the overarching narrative?
Because to me, it just seems like the author is trying to make something that appears deep, without actually creating anything deep.

Jesus christ, I am sorry I took your criticism seriously for a moment. What are you doing here dude?

 

[BOREALUM]

No lust system for Emma and Felicity again??oh maaaaaan, that is...depressing, time to sit back wait and pray that next update will be the one...but thank you Runey anyway, I will be your supporter until my dying breath

 

[Uthuriel]

Don't be like that. Reasonable criticism is reasonable. Like, he has a point. We just happen to disagree with that point. And even than only up to a point.

But that is no reason to become territorial.

True but you have to understand that there is no perfect AVN and there will always criticism, valid or not.
If a game doesn't give you the joy you seek why play it and why spend time writing paragraphs about it?
I think those are valid questions.

 

[QQP_Purple]

True but you have to understand that there is no perfect AVN and there will always criticism, valid or not.
If a game doesn't give you the joy you seek why play it and why spend time writing paragraphs about it?
I think those are valid questions.

All I am saying is that we shouldn't turn this into a shouting match that gets the mods on our necks.
Some times it's just better to let these tangents fizzle out and die if they can.

 

[Uthuriel]

So wait, you are saying that Harry Potter is real?

Still waiting for my letter...

 

[Runey]

All I am saying is that we shouldn't turn this into a shouting match that gets the mods on our necks.
Some times it's just better to let these tangents fizzle out and die if they can.

It would be even nicer if people weren't constantly flaming this thread. I thought this was finally a moment to listen to genuine criticism.

 

[Runey]

No lust system for Emma and Felicity again??oh maaaaaan, that is...depressing, time to sit back wait and pray that next update will be the one...but thank you Runey anyway, I will be your supporter until my dying breath

I know! I've been wanting to add it for a while, I have a lot on my list. At least you have years of harem hotel updates to look forward to it won't last forever.

 

[KonfinedKnat]

Can't we all just sit back and enjoy the headpats? Where's TheDevian when you need him?

 

[Syry]

no torrent ? this game is heavy