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- Aug 30, 2017
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I'll gently contradict Runey for a moment and observe that if you played the game before it took a more serious turn, you might think that it was about a dude banging his tenants anywhichway. A hot but ultimately meaningless game like any other.
But then it took a more serious turn, that was a really long time ago, and pretending that it's not going to continue down that much more serious line is being deliberately obtuse. Especially now that he's retrofitting the early game to better fit his story. It's so much more interesting this way. So much better. And it's not like the game's suddenly devoid of sex in favor of plot; there are zillions of repeatable sex events, and new sex events keep arriving. It's still porn, if that's what you want. I suspect you could fast-forward through the plot and still get all the porn you want. It seems like a waste of a great story, but you do you.
Objecting to an anti-slavery storyline is...a choice.
Elven slavery is *the* core of the story. Whether it's having sex with them or igniting a revolution to free them, it's the foundation. Doing both is the tightrope that Runey walks. Even though I have certain concerns about one part of it, I think it's a remarkably bold story and it's why this is one of my two favorite games in this entire genre. He's trying to say something interesting. Something important. That's immensely admirable, and he's making an incredibly enjoyable game along the way, which makes it even more fun.
But then it took a more serious turn, that was a really long time ago, and pretending that it's not going to continue down that much more serious line is being deliberately obtuse. Especially now that he's retrofitting the early game to better fit his story. It's so much more interesting this way. So much better. And it's not like the game's suddenly devoid of sex in favor of plot; there are zillions of repeatable sex events, and new sex events keep arriving. It's still porn, if that's what you want. I suspect you could fast-forward through the plot and still get all the porn you want. It seems like a waste of a great story, but you do you.
Objecting to an anti-slavery storyline is...a choice.
Elven slavery is *the* core of the story. Whether it's having sex with them or igniting a revolution to free them, it's the foundation. Doing both is the tightrope that Runey walks. Even though I have certain concerns about one part of it, I think it's a remarkably bold story and it's why this is one of my two favorite games in this entire genre. He's trying to say something interesting. Something important. That's immensely admirable, and he's making an incredibly enjoyable game along the way, which makes it even more fun.
Uhhh, it's now my turn to act lost. Do we, I'm sorry, now pretending that...
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- Sep 28, 2018
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I wonder if that is where he stores all the fairy wings. Open the door and an avalanche of fairy wings falls out. Could be deadly.Back hiding in the "empty" room on the top floor...
That's absolutely fair, if you played around the very beginning of the game, around v0.1, I was still focusing on the porn aspect a lot. It was probably my main focus, because I know people want to get to the sex.
My comment was assuming that they started playing recently, in the last few years.
But I have to say, slavery is not the core of the story. It is oppression, as it comes in MANY forms. Every character you interact with is oppressed in some way. Ashley is poor, Kali is rich, F&E are powerful, yet they've all been oppressed by something somewhere, and MC is the one to let them free which unlocks their full potential. THAT is the core of the story. Slavery is just one way people are oppressed in this world.
I introduced a new character in Lin's second event that has the ability to oppress even Android. Anywhere Android goes now, she can't connect to the internet, she'll be "seen" and possibly killed. That threat is just a new level of oppression that brings the very powerful Android back to the level of the others.
edit: and just to be clear, I plan for this game to have a happy ending! When I say oppression is the core of the story, I don't mean to say that characters aren't the main focus. It is just the one thing every character has in common. And the thing they all want to change.
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- Aug 30, 2017
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A majority of Western games are never finished, it's true, but if you think HH (which I'm not claiming is a Western game) isn't going to be finished — one day, which might be a long while from now — you haven't paid a single bit of attention. It might take six more years, but unless he suffers the unexpected he's gonna finish it.
- Jun 29, 2019
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Don't need a rule for common sense.
An incomplete game will have missing content, and a large incomplete game like Harem Hotel can be missing that content for years, since it is still in production.
Hell, Runey could leave out Autumn getting fucked until the very last release, and considering how Autumn was raised, it would fit perfectly with the story line.
With your insane bitching about it like you are, I am now almost hoping that Runey does just that, not have Autumn get fucked until the last scene of the last, completed version of Harem Hotel.
I'm not claiming it's not going to be finished, but...
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- Aug 30, 2017
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Agreed, and I probably shouldn't have used the word "Elven" but I do consider slavery (in various forms, some of them psychological rather than physical) to be the core of the story, which is more or less what you're saying. An exploration of routes to freedom, perhaps.
That said, up until now the crux of the mainline narrative is still Elven slavery. I see all the things you're doing with all the other characters, for sure, but aside from Kali most of the central narrative still clings to the slavery question; F&E are still aside the main narrative, for example. It's the existential threat. It's not the only one — all the NPCs have their own stories — but it's the one that looms over everyone. I assume you'll do things to unravel this singular focus, which I welcome, but right now it's very much there.
- Aug 30, 2017
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It's a passion project. He doesn't just want to put it out there, he needs to put it out there. He's gonna finish it, unless he's hit by a meteor or something. As an artist and a creator in my own fields, I recognize the type. This is one of a very few projects I'd never, ever doubt will be completed.
Sure, but that could be said about anyone's storyline. Power, which is F&E's theme, is present in everyone elses story and is a foundation of slavery. Greed, which is Kali's theme, is a foundation of slavery. It's all tied together. Or how Power and Poverty mix so well together (F&E and Ashley's stories) or Greed and Poverty having a tough relationship. Ashley and Kali, sometimes represented through Ashley feeling insecure about her body next to Kali. Who was at one point very fat, whereas Ashley has always been small and frail. It all bounces off each other and goes quite deep.
- Aug 30, 2017
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I'm not sure we're actually disagreeing. Slavery to a philosophy or a practice and slavery to a person are surely related in intention, if not in actual fact.
We may not be, but I'm happy to explain where I'm coming from. (even added some extra info to my last post)
Whew, all I did was express some frustration in basically three replies and it's now "insane bitching"? I've got a whole world of "bitching" for ya, if you already consider this insane.
It's also really cute that you consider "good" to screw others (not me) for replies of a single person on a public forum.
It's bad to coerce Creator into doing what you like, but it's good to coerce him to screw certain single someone just because you've read three replies on some forum? How does that work? If I or some other person will create a bunch of puppets to write annoyed replies here about other characters (like, I don't know, "How long until Kali in slutty outfit?!"), will you suggest to block content to screw them too? Can we stall the game completely that way?
- Aug 30, 2017
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We're not disagreeing about anything important. What I'm saying is that, right now, the overarching story is still about Elven slavery. There's a lot more going on, with respect to the individual NPCs, but the MC's engaging with most of those on a personal level — there are emergent exceptions, like Kali — while the slavery story is the public and existentially threatening theme. If you're hinting that all these things will be equally important, or at least relevant, in the future, then great!
- Jun 29, 2019
- 2,161
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You expressed it over and over and over and over again.
Once was more than enough.
You posted about it 7 times in one evening, and you refused to accept anyone's explanation of why it had not happened yet, including the game creator Runey.
Your expressing your frustration turned into troll like behavior a long time ago.
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Not to mention, that he does the new stuff first, and then works in the remakes around that.
Did you try on other days?
Well, I'm fucked then...
Was a busy day, had to go shopping, I am several hours behind in everything today, sadly, only on my 2nd event so far.
On the other hand, I did break 6900 headpats before I started the update.
Yeah, that would suck. I love the way all the main girls always get at least a little something.
I want to get her into bed ...for cuddles. Sex can wait.
No, she is pretty active. XD
I used to be, still pretty good for my age. XD
As long as her other stuff continues to expand, I would not be bothered by that at all. lol
It is a plot point, but not the point of the plot.
The point is about how different people deal with their issues, slavery just happens to be one of those issues, as well as rampant consumerism, abusive of power, and many other issues, the elves just being the part that is different enough from our world to catch more people's attention.
- Jun 29, 2019
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You need one patting Ashley's head, because Runey uses Ashley as a display pic.
Was about to answer to some other post, but seeing as Runey decided to chime in, I will treat this as a priority.
Again, and don't get me wrong, I don't mean it as a way to gather sympathy, nor as some sort of "I am offended by what you wrote" statement, but I've seen the recordings of these sorts of protests. Where armed anti terrorists were standing across from 20-30-40-something adult men, who were throwing cinder blocks at them. I remember stories my mother told me about how police were constantly using tear gas, how at one point one of the windows in her room got destroyed, and the tear gas from the street went into her room, despite not taking part in the fighting at all. How people were overturning tram cars, using them as barricades, and it's common knowledge how common were curfews, random identity checks of common citizens, how the police in APCs were using high-pressure water spouts against the protesters, and beating them - sometimes to death, more commonly just until they lost consciousness. And yes, sometimes the police even used live ammunition against unarmed protesters.
This was happening almost daily for a good couple of years before the state finally decided that they are actually losing grip on the society, and decided to take a step back, and even now there is a suspicion that they actually subverted the movement from the inside in order to escape any sort of repercussions after the regime change.
And I might've exaggerated on the "teenage" front, but the truth of the matter is - they could be 30. Unless they've got a lot of strong, able-bodied men on their side, this little protest of theirs would've been over within an hour or so, assuming the state actually wanted to silence them - which, as you've stated, is clearly the case.
Would he shoot his daughter? Probably not. Instead, he'd just tell one of his men to forcefully drag her out of the group, shoved her into a police van, told the driver to take her back to the station, and then he would tell the people to shoot the rest of the protesters - especially if we're talking rubber bullets, not live ammo.
No offence, but feel like you severely underestimate what an oppressive state is willing to do when they want to pacify groups of people that threaten their rule.
But wait, let me get this straight. The society wants slavery. The society elects their representatives to introduce a law, legalizing said slavery. And then said representatives censor the anti-slavery movement... So that... the people don't see the slaves wanting freedom? OK, I think I am getting a feeling for what you're trying to do here, but the problem is that, your presentation really does not convey this properly.
And another thing, is the media being controlled by the state? Because if so, then they wouldn't be showing this live at all, instead they'd just report this post-factum, with an adequate spin on the story. And if it is independent, then who is censoring the transmission?
But OK, Now I understand what the issue is.
It's the tone.
This story does not read like a dystopian fiction.
I don't know what is exactly at fault here, whether it's the light-hearted music, a bunch of colourful characters, or all these social issues just getting a mention from time to time, rather than actually being constantly in the focal point of the story - you may have intended to make them central to the story, but to me, they definitely do not come off that way - but this definitely does not read like a serious, deep story about "poverty, power, greed, religion, and so much more". At least not until the halfway point, which is probably why I unironically felt like you suddenly woke up and got influenced by modern day US politics.
The darker storylines, I've always interpreted as you, trying to put an edge on an otherwise light-hearted story. Not as a central theme of said story.
And in case the point was to softly introduce feelings of uneasiness into the story, to make the player uncomfortable as he realizes the "true nature" of the world, the gradient is way too steep - this narrative hits like a truck, which just reinforces the feeling of "WTF did THAT come from?!", rather than the slow, uneasy "What is wrong with this world...?" that should be happening almost right from the start.
The only thing I can offer as criticism in this case is... To concentrate more on the world, rather than on the many waifus you do bone in your hotel. Because this comes off as a harem game, first and foremost.
I guess I should now change my expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, like I said, this fails as dystopian fiction in my book.
To shoot your own daughter? Sure. To tell one of your - let me point out - armed and armoured men to grab her and drag her out of the crowd - not so much.
Again, and don't get me wrong, I don't mean it as a way to gather sympathy, nor as some sort of "I am offended by what you wrote" statement, but I've seen the recordings of these sorts of protests. Where armed anti terrorists were standing across from 20-30-40-something adult men, who were throwing cinder blocks at them. I remember stories my mother told me about how police were constantly using tear gas, how at one point one of the windows in her room got destroyed, and the tear gas from the street went into her room, despite not taking part in the fighting at all. How people were overturning tram cars, using them as barricades, and it's common knowledge how common were curfews, random identity checks of common citizens, how the police in APCs were using high-pressure water spouts against the protesters, and beating them - sometimes to death, more commonly just until they lost consciousness. And yes, sometimes the police even used live ammunition against unarmed protesters.
This was happening almost daily for a good couple of years before the state finally decided that they are actually losing grip on the society, and decided to take a step back, and even now there is a suspicion that they actually subverted the movement from the inside in order to escape any sort of repercussions after the regime change.
And I might've exaggerated on the "teenage" front, but the truth of the matter is - they could be 30. Unless they've got a lot of strong, able-bodied men on their side, this little protest of theirs would've been over within an hour or so, assuming the state actually wanted to silence them - which, as you've stated, is clearly the case.
Would he shoot his daughter? Probably not. Instead, he'd just tell one of his men to forcefully drag her out of the group, shoved her into a police van, told the driver to take her back to the station, and then he would tell the people to shoot the rest of the protesters - especially if we're talking rubber bullets, not live ammo.
No offence, but feel like you severely underestimate what an oppressive state is willing to do when they want to pacify groups of people that threaten their rule.
By definition, if it's authoritarian, then it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.
But wait, let me get this straight. The society wants slavery. The society elects their representatives to introduce a law, legalizing said slavery. And then said representatives censor the anti-slavery movement... So that... the people don't see the slaves wanting freedom? OK, I think I am getting a feeling for what you're trying to do here, but the problem is that, your presentation really does not convey this properly.
And I am kind of lost again. So humans know about the anti-slavery notions within the Elven strata. So the censorship is only aimed at slaves... Again, what is stopping a bunch of muscular, armed men from... if nothing else, then just dragging Lin out of the crowd, shoving her into the van and dragging her to the station, where she would be interrogated? Any actions by other protesters to defend her would be treated as an assault against an officer on-duty, and within two-three hours, you'd have AT units, storming the place with riot shields.
And another thing, is the media being controlled by the state? Because if so, then they wouldn't be showing this live at all, instead they'd just report this post-factum, with an adequate spin on the story. And if it is independent, then who is censoring the transmission?
I don't know, it could've been the title.
But OK, Now I understand what the issue is.
It's the tone.
This story does not read like a dystopian fiction.
I don't know what is exactly at fault here, whether it's the light-hearted music, a bunch of colourful characters, or all these social issues just getting a mention from time to time, rather than actually being constantly in the focal point of the story - you may have intended to make them central to the story, but to me, they definitely do not come off that way - but this definitely does not read like a serious, deep story about "poverty, power, greed, religion, and so much more". At least not until the halfway point, which is probably why I unironically felt like you suddenly woke up and got influenced by modern day US politics.
The darker storylines, I've always interpreted as you, trying to put an edge on an otherwise light-hearted story. Not as a central theme of said story.
And in case the point was to softly introduce feelings of uneasiness into the story, to make the player uncomfortable as he realizes the "true nature" of the world, the gradient is way too steep - this narrative hits like a truck, which just reinforces the feeling of "WTF did THAT come from?!", rather than the slow, uneasy "What is wrong with this world...?" that should be happening almost right from the start.
The only thing I can offer as criticism in this case is... To concentrate more on the world, rather than on the many waifus you do bone in your hotel. Because this comes off as a harem game, first and foremost.
I guess I should now change my expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, like I said, this fails as dystopian fiction in my book.