VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.18] [Runey]

[Runey]

By definition, if it's authoritarian, then it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

I'm gonna summarize this whole thing to: have you been to america? Have you heard of the UK? Just pay attention. I do. We don't live in a binary world. Stop arguing with randoms on the internet, touch grass.

 

[Segnbora]

We may not be, but I'm happy to explain where I'm coming from. (even added some extra info to my last post)

To expand on this:

Just speaking about core NPCs, Lin, Maria, and (after some complexity) Android are obviously directly tied to the slavery storyline. Kali is because of her father, and her work. Autumn is because of her religion. Ashley is because of her parents' slave. The only core NPCs that aren't directly tied to the Elven slavery story (so far) are F&E.

As for the other narratives: F&E and Ashley are intertwined for a while, but that peters out. Maria's also involved, but that never amounts to much other than some dialogue. Android and Kali have a connection, but so far it's nowhere near the importance of the Elven slavery storyline.

I could go on, but the point is that while you know the rest of the story and how it's all going to go, the story as it exists for the public is very much a tale of resistance to Elven slavery and its collateral damage, which a whole bunch of (mostly sexual) side plots along the way. If I never read this thread and played the current game to completion, I'd see it as a game wherein the core purpose was undoing Elven slavery. Since I have read this thread I know that's not all you intend to do, but it's mostly where you've left us at the moment.

 

[ImperialD]

has anything changed for the love and slave routes for the elf babes

 

[Zoran89]

I'm gonna summarize this whole thing to: have you been to america? Have you heard of the UK? Just pay attention. I do. We don't live in a binary world. Stop arguing with randoms on the internet, touch grass.

I'm gonna answer with this: No, I haven't been to the US and yes, I did hear of the UK. And I stand by my opinion.

If it's authoritarian, it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

Democracy - from the greek Demos (People) and Kratos (Rule) is a system where people are the highest authority in the state.
Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is a system where the state forces its will upon the people.
If people are being forced into certain laws, then clearly they do not rule - and if they do not rule, then we cannot talk about democracy.

You can have authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy (the rule of the closed chosen class) - the latter being the term I would use for a lot of modern western countries, but those are very much not a democracy.

 

[random2141]

Have you visited Kali's college on a random day? That's where her content starts.

I can't visit Kali's college in this version. (It just says "she's at college right now" when I click on her door and doesn't give me thoption). That's why I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing.

 

[Runey]

I'm gonna answer with this: No, I haven't been to the US and yes, I did hear of the UK. And I stand by my opinion.

If it's authoritarian, it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

Democracy - from the greek Demos (People) and Kratos (Rule) is a system where people are the highest authority in the state.
Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is a system where the state forces its will upon the people.
If people are being forced into certain laws, then clearly they do not rule - and if they do not rule, then we cannot talk about democracy.

You can have authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy (the rule of the closed chosen class) - the latter being the term I would use for a lot of modern western countries, but those are very much not a democracy.

 

[DigDug69]

Was about to answer to some other post, but seeing as Runey decided to chime in, I will treat this as a priority.



To shoot your own daughter? Sure. To tell one of your - let me point out - armed and armoured men to grab her and drag her out of the crowd - not so much.
Again, and don't get me wrong, I don't mean it as a way to gather sympathy, nor as some sort of "I am offended by what you wrote" statement, but I've seen the recordings of these sorts of protests. Where armed anti terrorists were standing across from 20-30-40-something adult men, who were throwing cinder blocks at them. I remember stories my mother told me about how police were constantly using tear gas, how at one point one of the windows in her room got destroyed, and the tear gas from the street went into her room, despite not taking part in the fighting at all. How people were overturning tram cars, using them as barricades, and it's common knowledge how common were curfews, random identity checks of common citizens, how the police in APCs were using high-pressure water spouts against the protesters, and beating them - sometimes to death, more commonly just until they lost consciousness. And yes, sometimes the police even used live ammunition against unarmed protesters.

This was happening almost daily for a good couple of years before the state finally decided that they are actually losing grip on the society, and decided to take a step back, and even now there is a suspicion that they actually subverted the movement from the inside in order to escape any sort of repercussions after the regime change.

And I might've exaggerated on the "teenage" front, but the truth of the matter is - they could be 30. Unless they've got a lot of strong, able-bodied men on their side, this little protest of theirs would've been over within an hour or so, assuming the state actually wanted to silence them - which, as you've stated, is clearly the case.

Would he shoot his daughter? Probably not. Instead, he'd just tell one of his men to forcefully drag her out of the group, shoved her into a police van, told the driver to take her back to the station, and then he would tell the people to shoot the rest of the protesters - especially if we're talking rubber bullets, not live ammo.

No offence, but feel like you severely underestimate what an oppressive state is willing to do when they want to pacify groups of people that threaten their rule.



By definition, if it's authoritarian, then it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

But wait, let me get this straight. The society wants slavery. The society elects their representatives to introduce a law, legalizing said slavery. And then said representatives censor the anti-slavery movement... So that... the people don't see the slaves wanting freedom? OK, I think I am getting a feeling for what you're trying to do here, but the problem is that, your presentation really does not convey this properly.



And I am kind of lost again. So humans know about the anti-slavery notions within the Elven strata. So the censorship is only aimed at slaves... Again, what is stopping a bunch of muscular, armed men from... if nothing else, then just dragging Lin out of the crowd, shoving her into the van and dragging her to the station, where she would be interrogated? Any actions by other protesters to defend her would be treated as an assault against an officer on-duty, and within two-three hours, you'd have AT units, storming the place with riot shields.

And another thing, is the media being controlled by the state? Because if so, then they wouldn't be showing this live at all, instead they'd just report this post-factum, with an adequate spin on the story. And if it is independent, then who is censoring the transmission?




I don't know, it could've been the title.

But OK, Now I understand what the issue is.
It's the tone.
This story does not read like a dystopian fiction.
I don't know what is exactly at fault here, whether it's the light-hearted music, a bunch of colourful characters, or all these social issues just getting a mention from time to time, rather than actually being constantly in the focal point of the story - you may have intended to make them central to the story, but to me, they definitely do not come off that way - but this definitely does not read like a serious, deep story about "poverty, power, greed, religion, and so much more". At least not until the halfway point, which is probably why I unironically felt like you suddenly woke up and got influenced by modern day US politics.

The darker storylines, I've always interpreted as you, trying to put an edge on an otherwise light-hearted story. Not as a central theme of said story.

And in case the point was to softly introduce feelings of uneasiness into the story, to make the player uncomfortable as he realizes the "true nature" of the world, the gradient is way too steep - this narrative hits like a truck, which just reinforces the feeling of "WTF did THAT come from?!", rather than the slow, uneasy "What is wrong with this world...?" that should be happening almost right from the start.

The only thing I can offer as criticism in this case is... To concentrate more on the world, rather than on the many waifus you do bone in your hotel. Because this comes off as a harem game, first and foremost.

I guess I should now change my expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, like I said, this fails as dystopian fiction in my book.

Looking at this from a tactical and strategic point of view.

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[TheDevian]

To expand on this:

Just speaking about core NPCs, Lin, Maria, and (after some complexity) Android are obviously directly tied to the slavery storyline. Kali is because of her father, and her work. Autumn is because of her religion. Ashley is because of her parents' slave. The only core NPCs that aren't directly tied to the Elven slavery story (so far) are F&E.

As for the other narratives: F&E and Ashley are intertwined for a while, but that peters out. Maria's also involved, but that never amounts to much other than some dialogue. Android and Kali have a connection, but so far it's nowhere near the importance of the Elven slavery storyline.

I could go on, but the point is that while you know the rest of the story and how it's all going to go, the story as it exists for the public is very much a tale of resistance to Elven slavery and its collateral damage, which a whole bunch of (mostly sexual) side plots along the way. If I never read this thread and played the current game to completion, I'd see it as a game wherein the core purpose was undoing Elven slavery. Since I have read this thread I know that's not all you intend to do, but it's mostly where you've left us at the moment.

Again, that is one of the major plot elements, but it is really only surface deep. There are a lot of other plot threads already in the game, and everyone has their own inner turmoil to deal with.

has anything changed for the love and slave routes for the elf babes

Not on the love route that I see. Haven't checked the other yet.

I'm gonna answer with this: No, I haven't been to the US and yes, I did hear of the UK. And I stand by my opinion.

If it's authoritarian, it's not a democracy. If it's a democracy, then it's not authoritarian.

Democracy - from the greek Demos (People) and Kratos (Rule) is a system where people are the highest authority in the state.
Authoritarianism, on the other hand, is a system where the state forces its will upon the people.
If people are being forced into certain laws, then clearly they do not rule - and if they do not rule, then we cannot talk about democracy.

You can have authoritarian dictatorship or oligarchy (the rule of the closed chosen class) - the latter being the term I would use for a lot of modern western countries, but those are very much not a democracy.

While I don't entirely disagree, there are many mixes out there, nothing is 100%, nothing is black or white, it is all shades of gray. This all or nothing attitude is very authoritarian.

 

[Segnbora]

Again, that is one of the major plot elements, but it is really only surface deep. There are a lot of other plot threads already in the game, and everyone has their own inner turmoil to deal with.

Please keep saying things I've already said, agreed with, and repeated. I do so enjoy it.

 

[Dringar]

Looking at this from a tactical and strategic point of view.

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I joked about a year ago the the MC should use his harem to stage an uprising and take control of the Queens kingdom with Lin as the new Queen and Android/Kali et al. digitally sealing off the world thereby creating a safe space for Elves with the MC as the new "King"

 

[Zoran89]

Runey
Uh-huh. Very mature.
I guess my buddy would scold me as to WTF am I expecting from a porn game forum, but I guess it's a fault of mine that I approach these topics from an intellectual standpoint, no matter the space.

DigDug69
Your post is exactly the reason why even a quasi-competent government would first put a blackout order on all the media, cordon off the entire area, send in armed AT units, then dragged every protestant in a police van to the local station for further interrogations.

Since the protestants are not shown to bear any arms - not even knives, they technically wouldn't even need to pull out their guns, tear gas and water spouts would completely suffice, especially since we're talking about college girls.

Even more so if it was actually an authoritarian government.

 

[Silkymilk]

would be nice if we could bang ashley's mom

 

[DigDug69]

Runey
Uh-huh. Very mature.
I guess my buddy would scold me as to WTF am I expecting from a porn game forum, but I guess it's a fault of mine that I approach these topics from an intellectual standpoint, no matter the space.

DigDug69
Your post is exactly the reason why even a quasi-competent government would first put a blackout order on all the media, cordon off the entire area, send in armed AT units, then dragged every protestant in a police van to the local station for further interrogations.

Since the protestants are not shown to bear any arms - not even knives, they technically wouldn't even need to pull out their guns, tear gas and water spouts would completely suffice, especially since we're talking about college girls.

Even more so if it was actually an authoritarian government.

How many human anti terror units do you think they actually have, when they are so reliant on war bots and androids?
Which they would have lost control of because of Kali and Androids work.
Sure, they can use an emp device on the ones closest to them (police androids), to temporarily disable them, but both the android police and the war bots have guns and can shoot from a distance.
Kali had mentioned previously, that the war bots are hardened against emp attacks.

 

[Runey]

Runey
Uh-huh. Very mature.
I guess my buddy would scold me as to WTF am I expecting from a porn game forum, but I guess it's a fault of mine that I approach these topics from an intellectual standpoint, no matter the space.

I would love to have an intellectual discussion here, but you completely lose everyone when you say being anti slavery is terrorism, call these characters teens, and that fathers should be expected to shoot daughters. You're leaving open no room for a discussion what so ever, so why should I bother explaining the cases in which you're wrong? You're not going to listen. There are only so many ways I can say I am not interested in this conversation. You need to look in the mirror, this is not helpful to anyone. I am here for intellectual discussions, you are not providing that.

 

[DigDug69]

I agree.

 

[TheDevian]

would be nice if we could bang ashley's mom

Yeah, don't care if it is as a punishment or reward for coming to her senses and leaving her husband and saying she is sorry to Ash.

 

[Zoran89]

I would love to have an intellectual discussion here, but you completely lose everyone when you say being anti slavery is terrorism, call these characters teens, and that fathers should be expected to shoot daughters. You're leaving open no room for a discussion what so ever. There are only so many ways I can say I am not interested in this conversation. You need to look in the mirror, this is not helpful to anyone.

I call them terrorists because from the government's perspective that's what they are, or what they will inevitably soon become. The fact that you do not understand this, just further proves my point that you have not done sufficient research into these issues to tackle these themes.

As for the remaining two points, I already addressed them in my previous post, which clearly you either did not read or did not understand.

 

[Runey]

Let's wipe away some of the toxicity in this thread with a question: What did you think of the new music? I used AI to create it! While AI did generate the sounds, I stitched them together and made it coherent. So I'm curious to know what you think, or if you even noticed it was partially made by AI!

 

[TheDevian]

I call them terrorists because from the government's perspective that's what they are, or what they will inevitably soon become. The fact that you do not understand this, just further proves my point that you have not done sufficient research into these issues to tackle these themes.

As for the remaining two points, I already addressed them in my previous post, which clearly you either did not read or did not understand.

It is a matter of perspective, what you don't see is that THEY are the main characters, so the story is from their point of view, that means they are freedom fighters, not terrorists.

 

[Runey]

I call them terrorists because from the government's perspective that's what they are, or what they will inevitably soon become. The fact that you do not understand this, just further proves my point that you have not done sufficient research into these issues to tackle these themes.

As for the remaining two points, I already addressed them in my previous post, which clearly you either did not read or did not understand.

That is actually true, the government sees them as terrorists. That's not what you said though. And yes, I didn't read your other posts because I'm getting really tired of responding to this nonsense that is helping no one. Nothing is coming of this. How many times do I have to say that this is not going anywhere? You're over here telling me that I shouldn't make a serious story, that I must have just "woken up to US politics" while you are apparently a fan of my game and want a serious discussion. How could I possibly take this seriously? Stop.

Maybe I read your tone wrong because of the aggressive words you chose at first, but I feel like I've made it clear that this is going nowhere by now.