Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.19.1] [Runey]

[宇宙人]

Kali as a virgin would fit what we otherwise see about her, I agree. Her having had sex--even consensual sex--would also make sense, IMO; she'd likely be easy prey for someone who wanted to take advantage of an insecure girl. She easily could have had a one-night stand, whether or not she understood it to be one at the time. So I don't think "Kali isn't a virgin," as far as it goes, contradicts the rest of what we know about her.

But this combination does seem contradictory:

• She knows she needs a dick to orgasm
  • suggests she's had a non-negligible amount of dick
• She's never had an orgasm from intercourse before
  • How then did she orgasm with a dick, consistently enough to "know" she needs one?
  • Perhaps it's that she hadn't been able to orgasm with the guy in control? Which is why she started as she did?

A possible resolution:

• Kali has had a few boyfriends
  • Maybe these were real, genuine relationships that didn't work out, maybe they were taking advantage of her, maybe something else, but none of them lasted very long
• Due to her insecurity, and in an unsuccessful attempt to keep them, she had sex with them early in the relationship
• In doing so, she found she could climax when she was on top, but not when he was in control
• Luci, not seeing Kali with anyone for long, or going on many dates, incorrectly assumes she hasn't had sex with any of them

I don't know that this perfectly fits what we're told, but it's at least close.

Ugh. No accounting for taste, I guess. I actually don't mind her as a character, but really don't like her as a LI.

Kali refuses to date her ex-boyfriends, but she'll sleep with them. Dude, if you're saying that, that's fucking weird.

 

[danb35]

What bothers me is that Kali's family believes the protagonist took her virginity.

Why is it a problem that Luci incorrectly believes this? We don't see any indication at all of what her dad thinks (if anything, we see that he isn't particularly interested in the question), other than that she's pretty serious about him.

Kali refuses to date her ex-boyfriends, but she'll sleep with them. Dude, if you're saying that, that's fucking weird.

I'm not saying anything like that. They would have had sex while they were together, obviously. I mean, people do have sex with exes, but that's not what I'm suggesting.

Ashley, a girlfriend who's insanely obsessed

The key word here is "insane."

As the game goes on, it's easier to understand why she is the way she is. I feel bad for her, and I'm even coming to like her as a character. But I'm really not interested in being with her.

 

[Ever Never]

I couldn't find Kate's last question.

 

[宇宙人]

Why is it a problem that Luci incorrectly believes this? We don't see any indication at all of what her dad thinks (if anything, we see that he isn't particularly interested in the question), other than that she's pretty serious about him.

I'm not saying anything like that. They would have had sex while they were together, obviously. I mean, people do have sex with exes, but that's not what I'm suggesting.

The key word here is "insane."

As the game goes on, it's easier to understand why she is the way she is. I feel bad for her, and I'm even coming to like her as a character. But I'm really not interested in being with her.

Because everything I've mentioned is already explicitly stated in the plot. For instance, Kali's sister believes the protagonist took Kali's virginity. Also, Kali rejected her ex-boyfriend's date invitation. Now, Kali's virginity wasn't taken by the protagonist. As for what exactly happened to Kali, the author hasn't clarified. (All these are plot points from the game)

Your previous comments were just assumptions. You claimed Kali slept with her ex-boyfriends early in their relationships to keep them. (Bro, that's just your assumption)

My comment (“Kali refuses dates with her exes but sleeps with them. Dude, that's just weird”) was purely a reaction to how wildly contradictory your absurd assumption was compared to the actual in-game plot.

As for Kali's dad's thoughts, well, that's just another assumption—one I share with you.


Kali's sister assuming the protagonist took Kali's virginity—that's her assumption (because it wasn't the protagonist at all). But Kali rejecting her ex-boyfriends' date invitations, leading to constant breakups—that's not her assumption anymore. If you don't believe me, you should replay the scene where the protagonist and Kali go back to her place.

 

[宇宙人]

Why is it a problem that Luci incorrectly believes this? We don't see any indication at all of what her dad thinks (if anything, we see that he isn't particularly interested in the question), other than that she's pretty serious about him.

I'm not saying anything like that. They would have had sex while they were together, obviously. I mean, people do have sex with exes, but that's not what I'm suggesting.

The key word here is "insane."

As the game goes on, it's easier to understand why she is the way she is. I feel bad for her, and I'm even coming to like her as a character. But I'm really not interested in being with her.

Essentially, it's the author's choice. Characters like Kali share this trait—take Lin, for instance (a virgin slave girl who'd served multiple masters over centuries). Honestly, character design is entirely at the author's discretion. He could have easily made Lin a 20-year-old newly born elf, yet he deliberately chose the most controversial characterization.

 

[danb35]

Kali rejected her ex-boyfriend's date invitation

But he's nonetheless an ex-boyfriend. So maybe:

• Luci's just mistaken here
• Luci's lying here
• Luci wasn't speaking in absolutes

Yes, I'm making assumptions--I think they're reasonable ones given what we're told; you seem to disagree. OTOH, you're taking Luci's statements as absolute fact, and I don't believe there's any reason to do that--indeed, I think there's good reason not to. To use the example I just quoted from you, if Luci is to believed as an absolute statement, Kali at at least one point had a boyfriend with whom she never went on a date. That just doesn't make any sense. So is there a way to understand this that does make sense? Yes, there is--it's that Luci was speaking generally, not absolutely.

By Kali's account, she and Luci hadn't been close for some time. That further suggests that Luci's knowledge and/or understanding of Kali's social life may be incorrect and/or incomplete.

So when you combine

• Luci is known to be wrong about Kali's being a virgin
• Luci is likely speaking generally, not absolutely, about Kali's dating habits
• Luci and Kali haven't been all that close for the past few years, so Luci may not know as much as she thinks she knows about Kali's social life

I think my assumptions make a lot of sense, and they're consistent with what Luci's saying.

Could Runey have done a better job with Kali's back story? I agree he could have. But I don't think it's as contradictory as you're making out.

 

[宇宙人]

But he's nonetheless an ex-boyfriend. So maybe:

• Luci's just mistaken here
• Luci's lying here
• Luci wasn't speaking in absolutes

Yes, I'm making assumptions--I think they're reasonable ones given what we're told; you seem to disagree. OTOH, you're taking Luci's statements as absolute fact, and I don't believe there's any reason to do that--indeed, I think there's good reason not to. To use the example I just quoted from you, if Luci is to believed as an absolute statement, Kali at at least one point had a boyfriend with whom she never went on a date. That just doesn't make any sense. So is there a way to understand this that does make sense? Yes, there is--it's that Luci was speaking generally, not absolutely.

By Kali's account, she and Luci hadn't been close for some time. That further suggests that Luci's knowledge and/or understanding of Kali's social life may be incorrect and/or incomplete.

So when you combine

• Luci is known to be wrong about Kali's being a virgin
• Luci is likely speaking generally, not absolutely, about Kali's dating habits
• Luci and Kali haven't been all that close for the past few years, so Luci may not know as much as she thinks she knows about Kali's social life

I think my assumptions make a lot of sense, and they're consistent with what Luci's saying.

Could Runey have done a better job with Kali's back story? I agree he could have. But I don't think it's as contradictory as you're making out.

Bro, you really should revisit that scene. You're here making wild assumptions—why not just play the game? You should revisit Kali and her sister's conversation.
Also, why are you fixated on Kali's ex-boyfriends? When the protagonist goes on a date with Kali, he learns he's the first person to truly make her heart race—a special existence. By his side, she can even bravely show her true self without fearing others' gazes.
Why not consider the male prostitute theory? If she hired one out of curiosity, wouldn't that explain everything? She's insecure, but would she still feel inferior after paying? Would you feel inferior facing a prostitute?

 

[Zang90]

sht, the story is epic, i freaking love it, cant wait for the end story, i hope the new update comes soon

 

[danb35]

why not just play the game?

I have, but I'll admit it's been a while. And there's no easy way to go back to random points in the game. I remember the event pretty well, but obviously not verbatim. So, fine, show me the dialogue that proves me wrong.

why are you fixated on Kali's ex-boyfriends?

She's had sex, right? Before MC? We do agree on that, right? If that's the case, then with whom? "A boyfriend" seems like the obvious answer. But, ah,

Why not consider the male prostitute theory?

Well, because this is literally the first time I've seen it suggested. While they exist IRL, they're considerably less common than female ones. We haven't seen any hint of their existence (though we have seen female prostitutes, female sexbots, and female elves as sex slaves) in the world where HH takes place. All of which are pretty good reasons, I think, that the idea wouldn't just immediately leap to mind. Would she do that? Eh, maybe. Would it help her self-image any? Probably not. But if those are the competing guesses about where her sexual experience (such as it is) came from, I think "a boyfriend" is a more reasonable guess than "a male prostitute."

 

[宇宙人]

I have, but I'll admit it's been a while. And there's no easy way to go back to random points in the game. I remember the event pretty well, but obviously not verbatim. So, fine, show me the dialogue that proves me wrong.

She's had sex, right? Before MC? We do agree on that, right? If that's the case, then with whom? "A boyfriend" seems like the obvious answer. But, ah,

Well, because this is literally the first time I've seen it suggested. While they exist IRL, they're considerably less common than female ones. We haven't seen any hint of their existence (though we have seen female prostitutes, female sexbots, and female elves as sex slaves) in the world where HH takes place. All of which are pretty good reasons, I think, that the idea wouldn't just immediately leap to mind. Would she do that? Eh, maybe. Would it help her self-image any? Probably not. But if those are the competing guesses about where her sexual experience (such as it is) came from, I think "a boyfriend" is a more reasonable guess than "a male prostitute."

Bro, you've been arguing with me this whole time. And now you tell me you haven't even played the game in ages? So you've been countering me based on your hazy memories and wild assumptions?
You want me to prove it? Dude, the game is right here on this website. You should download it yourself. The latest update was last month—you should be able to see that.
The game features male elf slaves treated as female playthings (the protagonist's solo beach scene—if you didn't know that, I can't imagine how outdated your version is), so it's reasonable to assume brothels exist.
Male prostitutes aren't far-fetched, and they perfectly explain Kali's initial dominant sex position and why she never climaxed before. After all, as a paying client, she naturally dictated the terms—but that meant missing out on what she truly needed: rough sex. It wasn't until her first brutal encounter with the protagonist that she finally experienced her first orgasm. (Your ex-boyfriend theory is absurd precisely because of this.)
As for her knowledge of orgasms, she clearly researched it online—realizing only a penis could make her climax, yet she'd never experienced one. Obvious amateurish quality.

 

[QuestionableNinja]

But he's nonetheless an ex-boyfriend. So maybe:

• Luci's just mistaken here
• Luci's lying here
• Luci wasn't speaking in absolutes

Yes, I'm making assumptions--I think they're reasonable ones given what we're told; you seem to disagree. OTOH, you're taking Luci's statements as absolute fact, and I don't believe there's any reason to do that--indeed, I think there's good reason not to. To use the example I just quoted from you, if Luci is to believed as an absolute statement, Kali at at least one point had a boyfriend with whom she never went on a date. That just doesn't make any sense. So is there a way to understand this that does make sense? Yes, there is--it's that Luci was speaking generally, not absolutely.

By Kali's account, she and Luci hadn't been close for some time. That further suggests that Luci's knowledge and/or understanding of Kali's social life may be incorrect and/or incomplete.

So when you combine

• Luci is known to be wrong about Kali's being a virgin
• Luci is likely speaking generally, not absolutely, about Kali's dating habits
• Luci and Kali haven't been all that close for the past few years, so Luci may not know as much as she thinks she knows about Kali's social life

I think my assumptions make a lot of sense, and they're consistent with what Luci's saying.

Could Runey have done a better job with Kali's back story? I agree he could have. But I don't think it's as contradictory as you're making out.

For what it's worth, you aren't really assuming information so much as speculating it based off of archetype tropes and what we're told in the game. Personally, I have no idea why 宇宙人 is so hellbent on this being an issue other having to make certain assumptions about their fascination with Ashley...

And just to throw my own 2 nickels into the ring, another option is Lucie is telling the truth and Kali is talking out of her ass. I once dated a girl who acted like a sex savant, "I love x", "I need y to cum", blah blah blah, and in reality she was making educated guesses at what she liked based on what she'd seen in porn and wanted to sound confident. This is extremely possible given Kali's backstory and frankly, she's hot enough that, just like her dad, I don't get hung up on the past status of her virginity which is a detail some people don't share with everyone anyway.

The other likely scenario is this is a game that is multiple years in the making and Runey has forgotten some of these small details along the way because that's a piece of the story that ultimately doesn't matter.

 

[torresm]

And now you tell me you haven't even played the game in ages?

He never said that, he said "in a while". Also, nothing he said or assumed so far is inconsistent with what's in the game, I don't know why you're calling his memory into question.

Male prostitutes aren't far-fetched, and they perfectly explain Kali's initial dominant sex position and why she never climaxed before. After all, as a paying client, she naturally dictated the terms—but that meant missing out on what she truly needed: rough sex. It wasn't until her first brutal encounter with the protagonist that she finally experienced her first orgasm. (Your ex-boyfriend theory is absurd precisely because of this.)

Now that's an ass pull if I've ever seen one.

 

[danb35]

And now you tell me you haven't even played the game in ages?

You really need to work on your reading comprehension. I haven't played that scene in some time (because that was the context in which you wrote "just play the game," which is what I quoted). No, I don't replay the game, start to finish, when a new update comes out. Yes, I've played through the latest update.

You want me to prove it?

Yes. If you think the game's content proves me wrong, you should be able to show me where. Screen shots are easy (if it's so easy for me to replay the event that I should just see it for myself, it's no less easy for you to replay the event to make your case), or you could even quote it. It's not my job to dig through 14 GB of content to make your case for you.

The game features male elf slaves treated as female playthings

It has one example of this. That it's any kind of a regular thing is another of those assumptions that apparently it's OK for you to make, but not me.

When you hear hoofbeats (in North America, at least), think "horses," not "zebras." If we know that Kali's had sex in the past, the most natural guess as to how that happened is "with a boyfriend." You have a different theory--no less a set of assumptions than mine--and it's an interesting one. You're right that I hadn't considered it. I think it was reasonable for me to not have considered it. I haven't given serious thought to the idea that a giant asteroid might strike Earth today and wipe out all life, either, but I guess it could happen.

At this point, I'm not convinced that your guess better fits the known facts than mine, but I'm open to being shown otherwise. If you'd care to discuss the matter like a grown adult, I'm listening.

another option is Lucie is telling the truth and Kali is talking out of her ass.

Interesting. False confidence/bravado is a common way to deal with insecurity (which Kali definitely has), so that fits.

 

[宇宙人]

He never said that, he said "in a while". Also, nothing he said or assumed so far is inconsistent with what's in the game, I don't know why you're calling his memory into question.


Now that's an ass pull if I've ever seen one.

What else do you think it could be? An ex-boyfriend she never loved and who never gave her an orgasm? Admit it—male prostitution is the best explanation. And it perfectly accounts for her sister's two misconceptions: mistakenly believing she was a virgin and her refusal to date her ex. Hahaha.

 

[jocoyo]

To be honest, I don't really care whether Kali is a virgin or not. What bothers me is that Kali's family believes the protagonist took her virginity. (Though it's clear the protagonist—or rather, the author—doesn't seem to care.)

As for Ashley, a girlfriend who's insanely obsessed with you and doesn't care if you have a harem—she could only exist in a virtual world. Hahaha.

A lot of these inconsistencies just boil down to Runey still being in the progress of remaking the early game events. Many of Kali's early events have been remade to fit more with how he now sees the character, but not all of them. So you get instances where events have older animation and characters say things that may end up getting retconned in the future.

 

[宇宙人]

You really need to work on your reading comprehension. I haven't played that scene in some time (because that was the context in which you wrote "just play the game," which is what I quoted). No, I don't replay the game, start to finish, when a new update comes out. Yes, I've played through the latest update.

Yes. If you think the game's content proves me wrong, you should be able to show me where. Screen shots are easy (if it's so easy for me to replay the event that I should just see it for myself, it's no less easy for you to replay the event to make your case), or you could even quote it. It's not my job to dig through 14 GB of content to make your case for you.

It has one example of this. That it's any kind of a regular thing is another of those assumptions that apparently it's OK for you to make, but not me.

When you hear hoofbeats (in North America, at least), think "horses," not "zebras." If we know that Kali's had sex in the past, the most natural guess as to how that happened is "with a boyfriend." You have a different theory--no less a set of assumptions than mine--and it's an interesting one. You're right that I hadn't considered it. I think it was reasonable for me to not have considered it. I haven't given serious thought to the idea that a giant asteroid might strike Earth today and wipe out all life, either, but I guess it could happen.

At this point, I'm not convinced that your guess better fits the known facts than mine, but I'm open to being shown otherwise. If you'd care to discuss the matter like a grown adult, I'm listening.

Interesting. False confidence/bravado is a common way to deal with insecurity (which Kali definitely has), so that fits.

What else do you think it could be? An ex-boyfriend she never loved and who never gave her an orgasm? Admit it—male prostitution is the best explanation. And it perfectly accounts for her sister's two misconceptions: mistakenly believing she was a virgin and her refusal to date her ex. Hahaha.

 

[torresm]

What else do you think it could be? An ex-boyfriend she never loved and who never gave her an orgasm? Admit it—male prostitution is the best explanation. And it perfectly accounts for her sister's two misconceptions: mistakenly believing she was a virgin and her refusal to date her ex. Hahaha.

I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility, but personally I'd agree with QuestionableNinja that Kali just saying stuff to sound more confident and impress us is a more likely scenario. Maybe she was a virgin, maybe she wasn't, I personally don't care much either way.

 

[宇宙人]

A lot of these inconsistencies just boil down to Runey still being in the progress of remaking the early game events. Many of Kali's early events have been remade to fit more with how he now sees the character, but not all of them. So you get instances where events have older animation and characters say things that may end up getting retconned in the future.

Right then, so in those older versions Kali was indeed a virgin, but has that been altered now? Or something else entirely.

 

[c3p0]

What else do you think it could be? An ex-boyfriend she never loved and who never gave her an orgasm? Admit it—male prostitution is the best explanation. And it perfectly accounts for her sister's two misconceptions: mistakenly believing she was a virgin and her refusal to date her ex. Hahaha.

Why should he admit to your theory? Even if it would be the most plausible one - I neither thought about it and neither have I a favourite theory - until you proofed that your theory is more than a theory and even then, he wouldn't need to do that.
So, why do you "need" that acknowledgement from a random person on the internet so much?

I mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility, but personally I'd agree with QuestionableNinja that Kali just saying stuff to sound more confident and impress us is a more likely scenario. Maybe she was a virgin, maybe she wasn't, I personally don't care much either way.

His theory make sense. I think Kali and Luci have, obviously different opinion of it and Luci guess is based on her perception of Kali and not of the "real" Kali. Where Kali herself let some details out, oversell other or even invent some, same with all of us. The who we are, is not the who others see in us and surely also not the one we think we are.

 

[danb35]

What else do you think it could be? An ex-boyfriend she never loved and who never gave her an orgasm?

You make it sound like "an ex-boyfriend she never loved and who never gave her an orgasm" is somehow implausible, but I don't know why that would be. Never loved? Most boyfriends/girlfriends don't reach the point of loving each other (Maria was with her ex for years, and says they never loved each other). And if they weren't together for long, as I suggest, that becomes even more plausible. Never gave her an orgasm? Well, first, she never says that; she says only that she'd never had one through intercourse before--and there are other things guys can do, of course. Second, men failing to get their women off isn't exactly unheard-of.

So, yes, it's an assumption. So is your theory that she hired a male prostitute. As, for that matter, is Ninja's suggestion that Kali's just talking out her ass.

her refusal to date her ex.

What does anyone's refusal to date anyone's ex have to do with anything?