Hmong-sama

Member
Jan 3, 2019
485
287
I know it feels like a long game so I don't think I'm gonna play it, but the art is so recognizable! Few minutes later...I clicked Frostwing on the 1st page of thread "VNDB" and looked at their games. And ah, of course! They're the ones that made Grisaia! I loved the Grisaia series! Haven't played their games except watched their H-scenes and anime series!
 

Weatherholt

Newbie
Jul 18, 2017
28
110
Smack me gob an pat me fanny guvna. <- Yes it actually is that bad at times. What an awful localization.

It's absolutely fuckin' awful.
I could maybe somehow suspend my disbelief if they said "My birth name was James, but I'm fighting on the side of the Japanese for (insert x, y, z reasoning)."

But this is like taking Percy Jackson, but Percy talks about Oktoberfest and makes references to Germany constantly. I could forgive a side character talking like this (especially in a fantasy world), but the POV character that's from a real location in a REAL historical time period? Fuck that.
 
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mofu2x

Member
Oct 10, 2020
102
546
It's like those meme bogan translations but for an entire 40 hour VN. Did Commie get their hands on this?
 

Crosaith.

Active Member
Nov 18, 2017
876
2,027
Protag repeatedly says & does dumb shit. Guy woulda been meat paste in other stories/games.
 

arkhemis

Member
Game Developer
Oct 27, 2019
174
192
A bit disappointed with frontwing when this one still drunk with grisaia after the successful of its predecessor that clearly an eroge... but they make all age in every release after that... It's same case like typemoon fate/stay... after success with 2 eroge series later no more eroge and all is all age... lol
But still Kimihagu and megachu is my favs of frontwing work... and grisaia but the first one, the eroge one and it's spin-off...
 

savagesix

Member
Jan 30, 2019
167
158
It feels like a joke translation, "bad" is an understatement here and unless you're familiar with British meme slang it quickly becomes a matter of "wait what the fuck is he actually trying to say here?"
I haven't actually played this but it sounds like this localization is like the jokes about the BotW localization that are like "Oi Link ya fookin wanker it's th' Bloodmoon" only actually existing

Which sounds like it would make for some amazing memes.
 

QQP_Purple

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2020
1,220
1,424
But imagine a VN like this about a Wehrmacht shock trooper, though. That one probably wouldn't go over too well. Not even today, even though pretty much everyone who's old enough to remember WWII is dead now.

Not so for Japan, though. Japan still has this weird complex about the war - they either won't talk about it and pretend that it never happened, or they'll insist that their boys were honourable warriors who did nothing wrong.

And if you know where to look, it's surprising to see how often this "we did nothing wrong"-thing pops up. Conversely, I know of only *one* series that actually makes a point of saying that WWII-era Japan committed atrocities: Kakugo no Susume.
That's the thing though. They really didn't. At least not from the perspective of the time.

We don't think about these things this way because we are conditioned to see WW2 in terms of good vs evil propaganda. But in reality it was a war between three very similar power blocks with only Germany and a couple of its satellites like the Croatians being a massive outlayer. The others just got unfortunately maligned by virtue of associating with them.

And before you start screeching I am not saying that Japan Japan and Italy newer did any atrocities. Of course they did. What I am however saying is that FOR THE TIME the things they did were not out of the ordinary neither in scale (comparative to subject population) or intensity compared to what was expected of a world power and its behavior toward colonial subjects,

Neither Japan nor Italy ever undertook the sort of mass campaigns of extermination that the Germans did. They didn't even want to. They both just wanted to sit at the big table of great powers along side Britain, France and the United States and claim their share of the pie. And they did this by emulating the big powers of the time which were Britain and France.

Unfortunately for humanity that pie was called colonialism and it is baked out of human suffering and blood. But that was just the age they existed in.

You have to remember that the 1930's and 40's were still in the era of high imperialism. Marching into someone elses country, slaughtering the locals and making them your subjects in order to extract resources from them was just something people did back than. So was performing atrocities to discourage resistance.

For instance Siam, Japans only voluntary ally in the war actually joined them to reclaim land that was taken by the French not a decade prior during one such expedition.

And it's not something that would stop with WW2 either. Just look at what the winners of that war kept on doing with their colonies right up until the 70's. Shining examples include the French colonial wars in Marco and Indochina or the beautifully named "Malayan Emergency". Because calling it a genocidal campaign to hold on to a colonial empire just does not have a nice ring to it.

Looking in the other direction WW2 was in living memory of such beautiful displays of humanity and kindness as the Congo Free State and the Boer Wars. The former of which had about the same absolute death tool (about 10 million) as the Japanese occupation of China but out of a starting population that was about 30 times smaller and the later of which is the origin of concentration camps.

So really, from the perspective of the Japanese at the time what they were doing and trying to do was not that different than what everyone around them was doing. It's just that they choose the wrong side of the war to do it on.

And whilst certainly from a modern perspective it was atrocious. But that's a modern perspective. We can't judge people from the past based on morality from after they lived. That's just absurd.

Once you understand this you can also see how the people of Japan today can look back at the war and say that they weren't the same as Germany and have nothing to be sorry for other than loosing the war. After all, the things they did were absolutely not out of the ordinary for the time and the people who beat them were doing the same things and kept doing them even after they won.
 
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censuur

Member
Oct 15, 2017
107
165
Once you understand this you can also see how the people of Japan today can look back at the war and say that they weren't the same as Germany and have nothing to be sorry for other than loosing the war. After all, the things they did were absolutely not out of the ordinary for the time and the people who beat them were doing the same things and kept doing them even after they won.
Yeah... no. Do yourself a favor and actually learn about the history you're trying to lecture others over. Japan's treatment of prisoners of war was absolutely abhorrent even for the time, even for centuries before that time. Their treatment of occupied territories was over a century out of date and their justifications for war came down to little more than "because we want to have it" after their invasion of China led to a US embargo.

A character in a story can be indoctrinated, sure, but there is a harsh tonal discord between a Japanese WWII soldier joking around and talking about how "they" should treat occupied territories nicely (like we do! In our war!)
 
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QQP_Purple

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2020
1,220
1,424
Yeah... no. Do yourself a favor and actually learn about the history you're trying to lecture others over. Japan's treatment of prisoners of war was absolutely abhorrent even for the time, even for centuries before that time.
If by a century you mean at most 30 years. Seriously, look up the history of war a little bit.

Their treatment of occupied territories was over a century out of date
Again, see European colonial practices up until the 1970's and beyond. Or is throwing people out of airplanes, burning down entire villages, using chemical weapons on "jungles" and napalm on civilians etc. somehow better than what the Japanese did.

and their justifications for war came down to little more than "because we want to have it"
Yes. Absolutely. That's the point.

We want it and thus we will take it is how colonialism has worked and frankly still works to this day. You didn't need any justification beyond that at the time.

after their invasion of China led to a US embargo.
Which in turn led to Japan being forced to look for those resources elsewhere thus causing them to go after american and European colonies starting what was to be the big colonial war over East Asia.

That's my point. Had it happened in any other era the whole thing would have ended with bruised egos, colonies changing hands and a footnote in the history books.

But because it was WW2, the worst war in human history, they didn't.


And again. I am not excusing the Japanese here. Their behavior was absolutely irredeemably monstrous. But what I am doing is pointing how how that behavior fits within its proper historical context and how that in turn is going to inform the narrative of it going forward.

A character in a story can be indoctrinated, sure, but there is a harsh tonal discord between a Japanese WWII soldier joking around and talking about how "they" should treat occupied territories nicely (like we do! In our war!)
True. But to be fair, a pilot, especially a late war suicide pilot is very likely to newer have come in contact with any occupied population. He would likely have been drafted (yes, drafted!) strait from Japan and given minimal flying lessons and told to go die for the emperor. And the only knowledge he would have had of the colonies is what was on the radio and in the news. And shockingly enough those didn't tend to report on things that might make the civilians at home feel like they might just be the bad guys.
 

censuur

Member
Oct 15, 2017
107
165
If by a century you mean at most 30 years. Seriously, look up the history of war a little bit.
Yes. as a rule prisoners of war were not abused, neglected perhaps, but Japanese armies regularly butchered entire divisions after they had surrendered, and that was definitely not the norm by any accounts.

Again, see European colonial practices up until the 1970's and beyond. Or is throwing people out of airplanes, burning down entire villages, using chemical weapons on "jungles" and napalm on civilians etc. somehow better than what the Japanese did.
If you want to make this argument you're going to have to be a whole lot more specific than waving vague claims around. The Japanese occupiers made King Leopold II's antics in the Congo look benign by comparison, and that's not because he was at all mild.

We want it and thus we will take it is how colonialism has worked and frankly still works to this day. You didn't need any justification beyond that at the time.
Except this is bullshit. They specifically made a show of their justifications of war with China, and this was a huge issue for the political side of WWII, by this point Japan wasn't some backwards underdeveloped and isolated nation acting outside the bounds of modern culture, the issue remains that this was an entirely unjustified war of aggression which makes their brutality even worse by comparison. The idea that the Nazi's where the bad guys of WWII woefully underplays the crimes against humanity wrought by the Japanese.

Which in turn led to Japan being forced to look for those resources elsewhere thus causing them to go after american and European colonies starting what was to be the big colonial war over East Asia.
Yes. You not selling me stuff I need for weapons stops me from killing my neighbors so now I need to try and kill you to take the stuff I need for weapons to kill everyone I feel like. Not exactly a great justification. There was a ton of hypocrisy coming from the West and especially those that were taking land throughout the rest of Asia, but that doesn't help the narrative that Japan's war was justified or that it's soldiers were somehow just innocent patriots.

That's my point. Had it happened in any other era the whole thing would have ended with bruised egos, colonies changing hands and a footnote in the history books.
And that's bullshit. Even in history we look poorly on those who utilized brutality in the way Japan did in WWII, trying to downplay that in this manner is just ridiculous and makes you look like a teenager with at best a surface understanding of history.

True. But to be fair, a pilot, especially a late war suicide pilot is very likely to newer have come in contact with any occupied population. He would likely have been drafted (yes, drafted!) strait from Japan and given minimal flying lessons and told to go die for the emperor. And the only knowledge he would have had of the colonies is what was on the radio and in the news. And shockingly enough those didn't tend to report on things that might make the civilians at home feel like they might just be the bad guys.
No, this character is explicitly a veteran and not a fresh recruit, I don't know why you'd even go blindly speculating about this when the story itself is blatant.
 

Weatherholt

Newbie
Jul 18, 2017
28
110
Is it that bad?
It honestly wouldn't be HORRENDOUS if the MC weren't explicitly Japanese from the WW2 era.

Because they were pretty extreme isolationists in regards to their culture and stuff. MC is using British slang and terms that the British Royal Air Force made for their army and absolutely not a single Japanese soldier would understand...any of it or use it. He also uses it constantly. It's not like a small reminder. It's as in your face as the German exchange students from Community.

This is the first visual novel I've dropped in the prologue. It's that bad.
 
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