VN Ren'Py Heart Problems [v0.9] [Xenorav]

[Florin2543]

Guys the android version 0.6 is 1.22gb but
I see the 0.7 test one is about 450mb, s
Why the 0.7 have only 450mb? Because is test? I want play the game but I don t know what I have to play, play the 0.6 or 0.7 test version? Or I should wait for drop 0.7 full version?? Help

 

[girlfairdev]

ok, takes me a while to get to things sometimes, but I finally played this whole thing through from the beginning, having skipped the last update and of course this one. Everything was good for me until the dialogue got pretty 'rapey' in the Kylie scene. Put me off a bit, even though they're cuddling at the end.

 

[botc76]

This is also how most actual rapes happen, it isn't some dude violently forcing himself on a woman. It's the constant pushing of boundaries, nagging and just doing it in the hopes she won't say anything about it.

No, that is definitely NOT how most actual rapes happen. Rape is usually a violent act, often it is more about dominance than anything else.
Now, if you would say that is how most cases of sexual assault happen, I might agree with you more. Or if you added that this often happens when at least the victim is heavily intoxicated or straight up drugged, it might also a more valid statement.
That is one of the problems with the #Meetoo movement (which I generally am positive towards, but think it has gone too far in some ways, this being one of them), that the lines of what is sexual assault, what is rape and what is sexual harassment are constantly being blurred and changed, even though those terms are actually pretty clearly defined.
Stuff like this "feels rapey" or "I felt raped" also doesn't really help, because you can feel things, even though they aren't what you feel and someone's feelings alone shouldn't lead to a criminal record for others.

In general and not just in regard to somedude's post, I do agree that under most circumstances the actions of the MC feel too pushy and definitely as if he doesn't accept a no. And in reality, any behaviour like this would be straddling a very fine line.
I would definitely NOT act like this in 2023, even if the woman gave me signals, that this is what she really wants, just too dangerous, not only for yourself and possible consequences, but also because if you misinterpret it in any way, you would do something really horrible to the woman.

In the case of the girls in this game though, both auntie and older daughter, Kylie, are CLEARLY interested and want more, they both repeatedly do stuff with the MC and later seemingly backpedal, only to then do it again, if the MC continues to engage with them.
And every time they are fine with it afterwards (auntie never does seem to have any problems with the acts, just with the moral implications for doing stuff like this while in a relationship and with her nephew nonetheless, and her daughter is often even initiating things herself). Due to that, I would think that in the game it is pretty clear that the girls want the MC to "overcome their resistance" so to speak, especially the aunt doesn't have it in her to push the boundaries herself and lets the MC do it.

Now, I'm saying in the game, because again, in reality this would be an incredibly dangerous fine line to walk, even just slightly misunderstanding what the woman wants, would lead to you going way too far into nonconsensual actions.
But we also shouldn't take this too serious, because let's be honest, A FUCKING LOT of the things happening in these games should be avoided like hell in real life. They are not meant to show you how to behave in reality, they are meant to fulfil kinks and wishes.


In the end, let me point out that in some way the younger daughter, Stephanie, is the most "rapey" character in the game!
She does constantly sexually assault the MC in his sleep, where he isn't even able to give consent, (and he has clearly said he doesn't want that, when he was awake) and even goes so far as to push parts of his body in her vagina several times.
Which is another thing that constantly happens in these games, women sucking or masturbating a guy without his consent, we can say all we want that most guys wouldn't have a problem with it, in real life this would be an act of sexual assault as well.

 

[Dr. Tom]

No, that is definitely NOT how most actual rapes happen. Rape is usually a violent act, often it is more about dominance than anything else.
Now, if you would say that is how most cases of sexual assault happen, I might agree with you more. Or if you added that this often happens when at least the victim is heavily intoxicated or straight up drugged, it might also a more valid statement.
That is one of the problems with the #Meetoo movement (which I generally am positive towards, but think it has gone too far in some ways, this being one of them), that the lines of what is sexual assault, what is rape and what is sexual harassment are constantly being blurred and changed, even though those terms are actually pretty clearly defined.
Stuff like this "feels rapey" or "I felt raped" also doesn't really help, because you can feel things, even though they aren't what you feel and someone's feelings alone shouldn't lead to a criminal record for others.

In general and not just in regard to somedude's post, I do agree that under most circumstances the actions of the MC feel too pushy and definitely as if he doesn't accept a no. And in reality, any behaviour like this would be straddling a very fine line.
I would definitely NOT act like this in 2023, even if the woman gave me signals, that this is what she really wants, just too dangerous, not only for yourself and possible consequences, but also because if you misinterpret it in any way, you would do something really horrible to the woman.

In the case of the girls in this game though, both auntie and older daughter, Kylie, are CLEARLY interested and want more, they both repeatedly do stuff with the MC and later seemingly backpedal, only to then do it again, if the MC continues to engage with them.
And every time they are fine with it afterwards (auntie never does seem to have any problems with the acts, just with the moral implications for doing stuff like this while in a relationship and with her nephew nonetheless, and her daughter is often even initiating things herself). Due to that, I would think that in the game it is pretty clear that the girls want the MC to "overcome their resistance" so to speak, especially the aunt doesn't have it in her to push the boundaries herself and lets the MC do it.

Now, I'm saying in the game, because again, in reality this would be an incredibly dangerous fine line to walk, even just slightly misunderstanding what the woman wants, would lead to you going way too far into nonconsensual actions.
But we also shouldn't take this too serious, because let's be honest, A FUCKING LOT of the things happening in these games should be avoided like hell in real life. They are not meant to show you how to behave in reality, they are meant to fulfil kinks and wishes.


In the end, let me point out that in some way the younger daughter, Stephanie, is the most "rapey" character in the game!
She does constantly sexually assault the MC in his sleep, where he isn't even able to give consent, (and he has clearly said he doesn't want that, when he was awake) and even goes so far as to push parts of his body in her vagina several times.
Which is another thing that constantly happens in these games, women sucking or masturbating a guy without his consent, we can say all we want that most guys wouldn't have a problem with it, in real life this would be an act of sexual assault as well.

This is finally a differentiated examination of this topic. And as botc76 already wrote, in these games there is almost always behavior that is never allowed in real life. And it is important to definitely recognize the difference.
However, I'm not entirely sure about this point in some of the posts here. It's surprising how many "women's experts" you find in forums like this - in real life you hardly see them.

 

[botc76]

I mean even at the end of the Kylee sex scene there's the "Don't cum inside me" moment where the MC can ignore her and fill her up anyway. At least that is optional though but it's still a pretty douchey moment.

There's nothing in the Amelie scene that was optional though. MC was like a young man with out of control libido molesting the woman even after she asked him to stop. It didn't help that Amelie's eyes looked like she was dead inside through the whole thing. Like she's a woman who was used to being pushed around and MC is just behaving as expected. Kind of a boner killer tbh.

If the Dev wanted to make the scene more palatable, He could have very easily had Amelie be the one with the aggressive sex drive in the scene... It would have been quite plausible especially after Davie's behavior in the episode. Then again, this VN did start out as a midnight rape VN, So the Dev probably thought the rapey shit with Amelie was romantic.

I'm sure all this sounded better in your head.

I'm sure all this sounded better in your head.

The other person in the scene expresses that she doesn’t want it multiple times. If you somehow manage to read that as consent, then I’m really worried for the people you have sexual interactions with.

Oh no, and you were doing so fine until now. Having your opinion and expressing it well, so that while I definitely disagree with you, I had zero problems with that, then you go and completely disregard the whole rest of the game, just so that your (and Jericho85's) point seems more valid AND even question someone's character, like a... well, like someone being not exactly a great guy.

Did the last update contain a scene that by itself would be REALLY questionable? Yes. Does the aftermath and the rest of the story (meaning everything that happened between the two characters before it) shed a different light on it? Also, absolutely yes.

I said it in my previous post, but I obviously need to do it again. This is a game, not reality, there is absolutely NO NEED to interpret the actions of the MC in the worst way possible, ESPECIALLY considering that this is clearly not the intent of the dev.
And yes, maybe the writing isn't that great in making it absolutely clear what the dev wants to express, BUT through the rest of the game we KNOW that he is telling a romantic story between the two characters.
Where is the point in you and others going on and on about how this is "rapey" and non-consensual, when you clear as fuck know that this isn't the case, because this is not the story Xenorav tells here?

It would be fine to point out to him, that he could try to work on the writing in a few scenes to make his intentions clearer, but for you and others to get all righteous crusader on this game, despite knowing that this isn't what the game is going for, that's either just pointless or you want to feel morally right on the expense of others.

 

[somedude321]

No, that is definitely NOT how most actual rapes happen. Rape is usually a violent act, often it is more about dominance than anything else.
Now, if you would say that is how most cases of sexual assault happen, I might agree with you more. Or if you added that this often happens when at least the victim is heavily intoxicated or straight up drugged, it might also a more valid statement.
That is one of the problems with the #Meetoo movement (which I generally am positive towards, but think it has gone too far in some ways, this being one of them), that the lines of what is sexual assault, what is rape and what is sexual harassment are constantly being blurred and changed, even though those terms are actually pretty clearly defined.
Stuff like this "feels rapey" or "I felt raped" also doesn't really help, because you can feel things, even though they aren't what you feel and someone's feelings alone shouldn't lead to a criminal record for others.

The vast majority of rapes are marital or done by an acquaintance (stats range from 80-90%) most of those are not violent. The women aren't being beaten into submission or choked to make them give up. They have generally already been worn down. So they "let it happen" because it's often times better than the alternative which does include violence.

In general and not just in regard to somedude's post, I do agree that under most circumstances the actions of the MC feel too pushy and definitely as if he doesn't accept a no. And in reality, any behaviour like this would be straddling a very fine line.
I would definitely NOT act like this in 2023, even if the woman gave me signals, that this is what she really wants, just too dangerous, not only for yourself and possible consequences, but also because if you misinterpret it in any way, you would do something really horrible to the woman.

That was what my advice was mostly for. Don't act on those signals, even if they're given those strongly. It can backfire and if it does your life will be pretty much over. (up to 10% of rape allegations were provably false, those stats were from the FBI)

In the case of the girls in this game though, both auntie and older daughter, Kylie, are CLEARLY interested and want more, they both repeatedly do stuff with the MC and later seemingly backpedal, only to then do it again, if the MC continues to engage with them.
And every time they are fine with it afterwards (auntie never does seem to have any problems with the acts, just with the moral implications for doing stuff like this while in a relationship and with her nephew nonetheless, and her daughter is often even initiating things herself). Due to that, I would think that in the game it is pretty clear that the girls want the MC to "overcome their resistance" so to speak, especially the aunt doesn't have it in her to push the boundaries herself and lets the MC do it.

Like posted above most rape is done by either a spouse (~51%) or an acquaintance (~40%), someone that is generally loved by the person that is being raped. Even if they are otherwise interested in having sex with that person, that does not mean they are okay with having done anything and everything to them. Most of the victims from those situations are 'fine' with it afterwards, they 'accept' it. At least outwardly, and often still keep engaging with that person (when it's a romantic partner especially). Now the aunt in this situation I might agree with, but what the niece was expressing makes it unequivocally rape. She said no multiple times, she said don't cum in me (and depending on your choice the MC does anyway). That is rape, there are no two ways about it.

I would agree with you if you were to say that you don't think the Dev was intending for it to come across that way. But it does, and should to you as well. There is no consensual non-consent without explicit approval from both parties (to each other).

Now, I'm saying in the game, because again, in reality this would be an incredibly dangerous fine line to walk, even just slightly misunderstanding what the woman wants, would lead to you going way too far into nonconsensual actions.
But we also shouldn't take this too serious, because let's be honest, A FUCKING LOT of the things happening in these games should be avoided like hell in real life. They are not meant to show you how to behave in reality, they are meant to fulfil kinks and wishes.

It is fine to have this fantasy, or to live that fantasy through virtual means. A lot of women do as well. The issue lies in the denial of what it is. And you can also act on this kink with a partner, as long as even the non-consent is consensual.

In the end, let me point out that in some way the younger daughter, Stephanie, is the most "rapey" character in the game!
She does constantly sexually assault the MC in his sleep, where he isn't even able to give consent, (and he has clearly said he doesn't want that, when he was awake) and even goes so far as to push parts of his body in her vagina several times.
Which is another thing that constantly happens in these games, women sucking or masturbating a guy without his consent, we can say all we want that most guys wouldn't have a problem with it, in real life this would be an act of sexual assault as well.

She is unironically more rapey, more manipulative and grosser in that regard. This also can be your fantasy or kink and living vicariously through the MC to experience that is fine. The same goes for with Kylee, just be aware of what it is.

 

[MOTHERship]

Just finished 0.7 and didn't notice any bugs or such. I'm glad that it focused more on Amelie/MC, I couldn't care less about the sisters - each one has his preference. I hope the story will continue along these lines (my preference).

 

[efb51]

A really very nice game indeed. Whenever an update comes out i download the game and replay it. The Aunt in this game looks really pretty and all the graphics are very good.
This game would be better tho if it did not contain Stephanie and Mia. The more girls added to any game makes some people want to skip it altogether and not to try it. The game would be better if the MC had contact with with the Aunt and not her daughters and that Amelie would gust leave her husband the second time he lied to his wife.
I'm waiting for a nice update to this game and sure would love to see Amelie become PG'ed. So far as of today i see this game has four(4) stars but i give it a five(5+) star rating. Keep up the nice work in this game.

 

[kujoe]

Lewds aside, I think the most interesting part of this game is the depiction of Amelie coming to grips and coping with the developments in her relationship. Not too often do you see an AVN that explores the thoughts and emotions of someone suffering and trying to move on from the loss of her marriage in such a way as this game demonstrates. The easier route would have been to make the housewife character a MILF temptress trope, and call it a day.

I've been playing this game with a completionist mindset, with the goal of seeing most—if not all—scenes with each heroine (minus Stephanie), but I think I would just be easily as satisfied running a solo Amelie PT just because of how interesting and compelling her route is from a dramatic standpoint.

 

[Kurogami32]

lmaoo why are u guys so serious?? it's just a gamee

 

[Florin2543]

Guys the android version 0.6 is 1.22gb but
I see the 0.7 test one is about 450mb, s
Why the 0.7 have only 450mb? Because is test? I want play the game but I don t know what I have to play, play the 0.6 or 0.7 test version? Or I should wait for drop 0.7 full version?? Help
And any link for discord server

 

[Dr. Tom]

The vast majority of rapes are marital or done by an acquaintance (stats range from 80-90%) most of those are not violent. The women aren't being beaten into submission or choked to make them give up. They have generally already been worn down. So they "let it happen" because it's often times better than the alternative which does include violence.

I understand your commitment to pointing out grievances in our society and also in such games. It's definitely a very sensitive subject. But didn't you pick the wrong game for this discussion? It's obvious that the author of this game doesn't want to portray rape.
There are completely different games here with violence against women and explicit rape fantasies. Now you're hooked on this game. Of course, the story isn't perfect and some things could perhaps be rewritten, but your accusations are not justified.

 

[Florin2543]

Guys the android version 0.6 is 1.22gb but
I see the 0.7 test one is about 450mb, s
Why the 0.7 have only 450mb? Because is test? I want play the game but I don t know what I have to play, play the 0.6 or 0.7 test version? Or I should wait for drop 0.7 full version?? Help

 

[Joe8]

Guys the android version 0.6 is 1.22gb but
I see the 0.7 test one is about 450mb, s
Why the 0.7 have only 450mb? Because is test? I want play the game but I don t know what I have to play, play the 0.6 or 0.7 test version? Or I should wait for drop 0.7 full version?? Help

Play the 0.7 and yes 0.7 android is 450 mb only because it is compressed version the quality is low. I didn't find 0.7 uncompressed apk anywhere so far. Hope this helps

 

[Jericho85]

I understand your commitment to pointing out grievances in our society and also in such games. It's definitely a very sensitive subject. But didn't you pick the wrong game for this discussion? It's obvious that the author of this game doesn't want to portray rape.
There are completely different games here with violence against women and explicit rape fantasies. Now you're hooked on this game. Of course, the story isn't perfect and some things could perhaps be rewritten, but your accusations are not justified.

I'm a little confused by this. If you don't think this dev wants to depict rape, then how would you categorize Stephanie sneaking into the room and playing with the MC's cock while he's asleep and blackmailing him into sex acts. Where exactly is the line drawn?

Would it be different if MC went into Amelie's room and rubbed his cock on her while she was passed out drunk? In fact, A lot of the earlier content with Amelie was actually MC taking quite a bit of liberties with rubbing his cock on her while he thinks she doesn't notice or assumes that she's "letting him". Approaching her with his cock out to see how she reacts... Groping her when she clearly expresses to him that it's making her uncomfortable. In most parts of the world, those things would fall cleanly into the category of sexual assault.

Spoiler

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Also don't forget that the abandoned original version of this VN did have a sleep rape scene:

Spoiler

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The groping liberties, the cock rubbing, the spying, Stephanie's sexual blackmail, MC trying to penetrate Kylee immediately after she expressly tells him "NO!", etc... All that stuff is recurring themes of this VN. Even if you believed that none of that is rape, I have a hard time believing that a victim of those acts would agree. MC is constantly pushing boundaries and trying to cross lines, even after objections from the LI.

And if the Dev thinks constantly pressuring Amelie with sexual harassment until she gives in is "romantic", then he's got a pretty fucked up view of romance lol.

 

[somedude321]

I understand your commitment to pointing out grievances in our society and also in such games. It's definitely a very sensitive subject. But didn't you pick the wrong game for this discussion? It's obvious that the author of this game doesn't want to portray rape.
There are completely different games here with violence against women and explicit rape fantasies. Now you're hooked on this game. Of course, the story isn't perfect and some things could perhaps be rewritten, but your accusations are not justified.

Hence this part of my post

...
I would agree with you if you were to say that you don't think the Dev was intending for it to come across that way. But it does, and should to you as well. There is no consensual non-consent without explicit approval from both parties (to each other).
...

However I get that in my quest to drive home the point I've been too adamant and made it come across more extreme than it is.

It isn't so much this scene on its own, it's more the combination of the scenes. Going from kylee scene to kylee scene. The car scene (episode 5) and the episode 6 sex scene have the moment where it lands on the wrong side of the "No" coin. Namely the "No, don't do that" side instead of the "No, we shouldn't but I do want to" side, in the car MC keeps trying to enter after she makes it clear that she's changed her mind and in the episode 6 scene when the MC comes inside anyway (if you choose that).

To be clear, this game handles that a lot better than most other games on here, and especially the episode 6 scene is hot as fuck when it comes to view and animations. I played everything in one go for the first time with this release, which made the overall pushy behaviour stand out to me. That is probably what made the episode 6 scene feel worse than it is when viewed standalone, then it's really only if you make the "Cum inside" choice.

 

[Dr. Tom]

I'm a little confused by this. If you don't think this dev wants to depict rape, then how would you categorize Stephanie sneaking into the room and playing with the MC's cock while he's asleep and blackmailing him into sex acts. Where exactly is the line drawn?

Hence this part of my post

Guys, I completely agree with you. A lot of what is normal in this type of game would be rape in real life. That is absolutely clear.
But games like this, especially in a forum like this, always have a certain artistic freedom, because a fantasy is being described that under no circumstances should be imitated in real life. But I also don't want to say that everything should be allowed just because it's a fantasy. Some of the games here are really disturbing.

So, I agree with you, somedude321, Jericho85, botc76 and many others here that this actions shown in such games would not be allowed in real life. But to get so stuck on this game, even though there are much, much worse games here, somehow leads to nothing.
Because of a simple reason: the people you want to convince, that this is a sensitive subject and that as an author you have to be careful with such depictions, have long been convinced. And you won't convince the others, who don't understand that anyway, even with 20 more posts.

 

[kadgilek]

i didn't know that philosophers have blue balls too . the new fans of the game are weird lol

 

[Fiufia]

 

[hzjujk]

Guys, I completely agree with you. A lot of what is normal in this type of game would be rape in real life. That is absolutely clear.
But games like this, especially in a forum like this, always have a certain artistic freedom, because a fantasy is being described that under no circumstances should be imitated in real life. But I also don't want to say that everything should be allowed just because it's a fantasy. Some of the games here are really disturbing.

So, I agree with you, somedude321 and botc76 and many others here that this actions shown in such games would not be allowed in real life. But to get so stuck on this game, even though there are much, much worse games here, somehow leads to nothing.
Because of simple reason: the people you want to convince, that this is a sensitive subject and that as an author you have to be careful with such depictions, have long been convinced. And you won't convince the others, who don't understand that anyway, even with 20 more posts.

Such games as are available for download and discussed always cross boundaries, for example, those of good taste and morally appropriate behavior. The scenes shown in this game are not only morally inappropriate and would correctly lead to drastic punishments in the real world.
No one should question that such actions are allowed in games. It is fantasy and not real world. I also played cowboys and Indians with pistols as a child and shot a lot of my comrades.
But, and I want to say this clearly, a rape in a game must also be called so.
I don't consider the scene in a game to be problematic, but the people who then "talk up" this scene. And look in the texts and pictures for the smallest signs that the woman wanted it after all. At this point I will always disagree strongly.