VN Ren'Py Heaven's Door [Ch. 3 v0.3] [AlterWorlds]

[Elduriel]

I hadn't read the thread. I have now makes just as little sense guess MC is just an idiot. Or suicidal.

or we just don't yet know his reasoning/motivations or what the fuck is actually up. Which is what the dev said. So just chill for a bit, we'll find out.

 

[danb35]

Why the rush to judgment? You don't read a book that way, right? If a character in a book expresses an opinion that doesn't immediately make sense to you, you don't stop reading and call the author (or character) an idiot, do you? No, you keep reading, expecting that either (1) that opinion will be explained in a way that makes sense within who the character is, or (2) you'll hear other things that let you guess at a reasonable explanation.

If at the end neither of these has happened, and it's a major issue (as this would be), that's a valid criticism of the work. But we aren't at that point, or even close to it.

 

[O1duvai]

Then read that post again and this time try harder.

It's not his problem. This is a problem with the game. He is not obliged to read a hundred pages of forum squabbles in order to find out the deep intention of the author. There's no f&cking exposition in the game. She doesn't explain anything to the player, although she tries to touch on a serious and sensitive topic. I may have slightly changed my opinion after talking with people in DM, but even this is a completely unnecessary action that no one is obliged to do.

Why the rush to judgment? You don't read a book that way, right? If a character in a book expresses an opinion that doesn't immediately make sense to you, you don't stop reading and call the author (or character) an idiot, do you? No, you keep reading, expecting that either (1) that opinion will be explained in a way that makes sense within who the character is, or (2) you'll hear other things that let you guess at a reasonable explanation.

If at the end neither of these has happened, and it's a major issue (as this would be), that's a valid criticism of the work. But we aren't at that point, or even close to it.

I'm afraid to ask how many books I had to read to invent such a log.

Well-written books have structure. The narrative in them is sequential. They first explain the rules to you and then show you how someone plays by them. First, personality is revealed to you, and then actions in a given situation are shown.

Or they form an idea of personality through actions, and this is where this game screws up. Because the opinion is formed on the basis of the actions demonstrated, but SOMEWHERE BEHIND THE SCENES we have a volume on medicine, through which you will be explained on the hundredth page of the forum (which you are not required to visit) that the impression you have created is not correct.

Unless you cited bad books as an example. Yellow, boulevard slop.

 

[Rehwyn]

It's not his problem. This is a problem with the game. He is not obliged to read a hundred pages of forum squabbles in order to find out the deep intention of the author. There's no f&cking exposition in the game. She doesn't explain anything to the player, although she tries to touch on a serious and sensitive topic. I may have slightly changed my opinion after talking with people in DM, but even this is a completely unnecessary action that no one is obliged to do.


I'm afraid to ask how many books I had to read to invent such a log.

Well-written books have structure. The narrative in them is sequential. They first explain the rules to you and then show you how someone plays by them. First, personality is revealed to you, and then actions in a given situation are shown.

Or they form an idea of personality through actions, and this is where this game screws up. Because the opinion is formed on the basis of the actions demonstrated, but SOMEWHERE BEHIND THE SCENES we have a volume on medicine, through which you will be explained on the hundredth page of the forum (which you are not required to visit) that the impression you have created is not correct.

Unless you cited bad books as an example. Yellow, boulevard slop.

Plenty of excellent stories also maintain suspense by presenting mysterious or seemingly illogical behavior that isn't fully understood by the reader until a later revelation.

 

[O1duvai]

Plenty of excellent stories also maintain suspense by presenting mysterious or seemingly illogical behavior that isn't fully understood by the reader until a later revelation.

I agree. Only at least half of the players will drop out and will not play the game, buy it, wait for updates, and so on. Because the impression has already been created and they are not obliged to try to find a reason to change it.

 

[danb35]

which you are not required to visit

No, of course you aren't. And a fair reading of the story doesn't require it. But too many people see MC say this, know (as is pretty common knowledge) that there's such a thing as freezing or otherwise storing sperm for future use, and assume that either MC or the dev is an idiot. A much more reasonable assumption is that the dev is aware of this (again, it's pretty common knowledge), MC is aware of this (he surely ought to be), MC has a rationale, and the dev is choosing not to explain MC's rationale at this time for narrative reasons. You don't need to read one word of the forum to reach this very reasonable provisional conclusion. Reading this forum confirms this to be the case, but again, this is an entirely reasonable assumption without that knowledge.

 

[Jarulf]

You guys have amazing stamina.

 

[HornyyPussy]

It's not his problem. This is a problem with the game. He is not obliged to read a hundred pages of forum squabbles in order to find out the deep intention of the author. There's no f&cking exposition in the game. She doesn't explain anything to the player, although she tries to touch on a serious and sensitive topic. I may have slightly changed my opinion after talking with people in DM, but even this is a completely unnecessary action that no one is obliged to do.

Why would he need to read hundreds of pages? The page Elduriel linked is the Dev explaining exactly why it was done that way and how it will progress.

 

[O1duvai]

No, of course you aren't. And a fair reading of the story doesn't require it. But too many people see MC say this, know (as is pretty common knowledge) that there's such a thing as freezing or otherwise storing sperm for future use, and assume that either MC or the dev is an idiot. A much more reasonable assumption is that the dev is aware of this (again, it's pretty common knowledge), MC is aware of this (he surely ought to be), MC has a rationale, and the dev is choosing not to explain MC's rationale at this time for narrative reasons. You don't need to read one word of the forum to reach this very reasonable provisional conclusion. Reading this forum confirms this to be the case, but again, this is an entirely reasonable assumption without that knowledge.

Do I have to guess what the author MIGHT know? Or maybe not? Are you serious now? Do I need to read or write another treatise just to give some writing a chance in the future? Give at least one reason to do this.

"I thought you thought he might know that I know." That's about the level of justification.
The average player doesn't really need to make any assumptions. The developer shows actions (for example, refusal of treatment, or, okay, the story with sperm), and does NOT justify it in ANY way through the character. Let me remind you - for THREE CHAPTERS. Okay - two, because in the first we don’t understand shit at all (another “excellent idea”). Therefore, most players get the most basic and almost always correct conclusion - he is an idiot. This opinion is VERY common regarding those who are not even trying to survive, but at least to die later.
And there is no need to try to pull an owl onto a globe by proving that a more complex conclusion is more common. It NEVER works like that.

Why would he need to read hundreds of pages? The page Elduriel linked is the Dev explaining exactly why it was done that way and how it will progress.

I wasn't talking about the link in the reply. I talked about the need to come to some pirate forums for answers that the game doesn’t even try to give.

 

[HornyyPussy]

I wasn't talking about the link in the reply. I talked about the need to come to some pirate forums for answers that the game doesn’t even try to give.

I sincerely hope you realize that this a extreme "you" problem.......most of us can think for our selves and don't need everything spelled out in advance, we can find things out as we read on.

 

[Elduriel]

I sincerely hope you realize that this a extreme "you" problem.......most of us can think for our selves and don't need everything spelled out in advance, we can find things out as we read on.

no-no, we can't have that. The game must reveal the whole plot in the first chapter

 

[HornyyPussy]

no-no, we can't have that. The game must reveal the whole plot in the first chapter

It's like reading a book from end to beginning

 

[Jimmy1984]

I am not, and while I've been to New Orleans and the immediate area, I mostly did a lot of reading on Houma and the local culture and history. I'm glad I've been able to lend the impression that I've spent time there, though.

You've gotten the atmosphere just fine. Mostly it's just little things like Cajun French spelling it "Cher" - "Chere" is French. And you can't go full accent via text without it becoming incomprehensible, so what you went with to convey local accents is the best middle ground.

Maybe throw in an MC auto accident involving a hog, or going to take a leak out back behind The Door at night and realize he's pissing next to an alligator that climbed up out of the bayou! Had a similar experience once myself hehe. Scared the bejesus out of me...

 

[TonyMurray]

I thought this update was decent without being special - in terms of the overall story, I just don't really know yet where it's going. I'm not interested in the trans characters romantically, but there was at least a bit of story there, and of course I'm going to help out. I just hope it's not over (outside of the romance paths) now I've given the twins a ride to New Orleans.

Graphically, everything looks great except... the dick pics. I know Daz is a bit crap with it, but any time the dick is out and the trousers are still on, it looks ridiculous and to be honest, it's completely out of place with the care that everything else has clearly had.

 

[motseer]

It's like reading a book from end to beginning

Ha! Don't even tell me that you've never gotten about two chapters into a book and decided to peek at the ending. There have been a few where I did that, and it made me decide to read a different book. Heh, Jus' Sayin'

 

[Disco Hammered and Chill?]

Because nothing says "I'm here to watch naked chicks shake it" or "I'm pounding this hot stripper" like these Power Twink Poses...

..Seriously: what the hell?? Everything else is amazing.

 

[jadepaladin]

I thought this update was decent without being special - in terms of the overall story, I just don't really know yet where it's going. I'm not interested in the trans characters romantically, but there was at least a bit of story there, and of course I'm going to help out. I just hope it's not over (outside of the romance paths) now I've given the twins a ride to New Orleans.

Graphically, everything looks great except... the dick pics. I know Daz is a bit crap with it, but any time the dick is out and the trousers are still on, it looks ridiculous and to be honest, it's completely out of place with the care that everything else has clearly had.

I had similar thoughts. I like this well enough but I don't really know where it's going and it's not in a good "ooh mysterious" kind of way. Things are happening, we're reactive to them, but something just feels off. I remember laughing way more than I should have after the Sylvanie hookup in the stall because of his junk clipping through the pants.

 

[TonyMurray]

I had similar thoughts. I like this well enough but I don't really know where it's going and it's not in a good "ooh mysterious" kind of way. Things are happening, we're reactive to them, but something just feels off. I remember laughing way more than I should have after the Sylvanie hookup in the stall because of his junk clipping through the pants.

It looked like a flaccid dildo glued onto the front of his jeans. It was a weird one.

 

[CrumblePi]

This was a surprisingly disappointing update.

I was expecting to have Patricia be the main focus of this update, since the previous one ended with her showing up to talk with us. But all we got there was an extremely brief scene of about thirty renders, one-fifth of which were of her and her husband. And then it ends abruptly as soon as it feels like we are starting to make progress in this relationship. She tells us her kid had cancer, starts to cry in our arms, and the game just cuts away from all that to us going to meet Nikki and walk her dogs. They couldn't have bailed on Patricia any fucking harder than that. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of cancer types, so I don't know why this particular cancer caused the MC to react how he did, so a bit more internal dialogue would've been helpful there.

We do get another scene with Patricia at the club later, where she asks us if we are coming to the club every Thursday because we're interested in someone. We have the option to either give her a just friends speech, or to tell her "Just because I might be interested in others, doesn't mean I'm not interested in you." Holy shit, that's got to be the least romantic way of telling a girl you want to be with her. How hard would it be for him to just say that there is one woman in particular that he's interested in?

It was especially stupid because Patricia was the only one I showed interest in on this path. The game should know that I'm only interested in Patricia, because it did understand that previously. The first episode allowed us to tell Patricia that we specifically came back to see her again if and only if we had previously told Nikki that she wasn't our type. So what the fuck happened? It would seem that the developers just got lazy, because this was a pathetic showing.

Patricia felt like an afterthought in this update. Charlie throwing his busty granddaughter at us had more renders than the opening scene with Patricia. The stupid transgender sideplot had over five times as many renders as the opening scene. What the hell is going on here? I honestly thought that Patricia and Nikki were the two main love interests of the game, but now it feels like Patricia is barely even a side character.

There was also an issue of Mika's hairstyle changing mid conversation, but that's an easy fix that will likely be rectified in a hurry.

This, in my opinion, boils down to how staggered/episodic releases are influencing the flow. You usually get a major plot twist, a cliffhanger, or other suspenseful action to make you eager to see what's next. But unlike with traditional media (TV shows are the best example, whether it's cable or Netflix-style release cadence), you wait for months at a time, eating that pie in small, dried out chunks. Now, established and lore-deep productions (e.g. Eternum) can pull this off because the author knows the community will theory craft for months on end. This, sadly, does not apply to HD and I'll comment on one of those points below.

There's eleven main love interests, not two. And it's (optionally) full harem. Nikki and Patricia just happen to be the most developed so far. If you only show interest in one, you're going to have updates like this from time to time.

And they've said that even if you aren't on a romantic path with a woman, they won't just disappear from the game. It'll likely just resolve into a platonic friendship instead. So even on a solo romance path, you'll still be spending a lot of time with other characters.

Eleven major/main love interests is frankly a ridiculous number and I'm somehow surprised that after the colossal order that was tying up the endings for Bare Witness, they decided to almost double the number of LIs. There are countless examples where the dining table is simply too long and before you get your potion of mashed potatoes from the other end, they are already cold or eaten. An overwhelming majority of harem-tagged games here (sorted by weighted rating) limit the roster to 5-6 main LIs and some loose change. I'm worried that this may backfire in a big (bad) way, where neither the fans nor the developers will like what they're doing. Again, I do believe that Storm is a capable writer and storyteller (as seen by their dedication to research for the game's setting) - I'm just skeptical whether this bayou will hold water.

 

[MorallyLucky]

Eleven major/main love interests is frankly a ridiculous number and I'm somehow surprised that after the colossal order that was tying up the endings for Bare Witness, they decided to almost double the number of LIs. There are countless examples where the dining table is simply too long and before you get your potion of mashed potatoes from the other end, they are already cold or eaten. An overwhelming majority of harem-tagged games here (sorted by weighted rating) limit the roster to 5-6 main LIs and some loose change. I'm worried that this may backfire in a big (bad) way, where neither the fans nor the developers will like what they're doing. Again, I do believe that Storm is a capable writer and storyteller (as seen by their dedication to research for the game's setting) - I'm just skeptical whether this bayou will hold water.

It's because this game is not gonna have endings that depend on the LIs, the endings will be 3 no matter how many LIs you're actually in a relationship with. This game will also be much bigger with iirc 16 chapters planned, while Bare witness had like what? 5 updates? The pacing makes sense, I'm only concerned about some of the side characters and how they will fit with the rest of the Main LIs, but other than that it's progressing smoothly imo.