TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,120
35,689
Yes, as an RPG F4 is somewhat inferior. Dialogue system is awful ("your thoughts?" made me prefer to venture alone) and the main story is rather poor (Far Harbor DLC has pretty good one though). But I really love exploration (almost every location is different and interesting) and the building part you mentioned. "Rebuild the wasteland" is something I always wanted to do in a Fallout game and coupled with some mods it is possible here to a decent extent. For me F4 is an ultimate open world sandbox game rather than a story-focused RPG. I spent vastly more hours in it than any other Fallout or Elder Scrolls game.
Can't argue with that,
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I am contrary to you freezing your patron page because you aren't taking a break from gaming development work. Hope your patrons are of the same mind Notty. :)
Exactly, you are still working, so it's only fair.
 
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noname777

Member
Jul 8, 2018
255
401
The inference that Notty is anything even remotely similar to Gumdrop is frankly disrespectful :(
I am really sorry. You are right, I should never compare Gumdrop with smaller developers. I didn't even realize that this would be so disrespectful to him. :rolleyes:

I really don't mean to offend you, but bringing up that scammer who hasn't released an update in 1 1/2 years while happily collecting money makes me question your "reasoning" to put it mildly.
I tried to use hyperbole to highlight the problem of delays among various developers.

Notty is more honest, fair
I have never said otherwise.

(What other dev would refund three months of illness to patrons, hm?)
Not exactly the same, but Icstor stopped collecting funds for 3 months. He really has not been slacking. He just took 3 months of, after nonstop no breaks for years. And he didn't charge his patreons during those 3 months. But some people still said he is a scammer, and compared him to Gumdrop.

makes icstor look like a saint
He almost surpassed Gumdrop this time :cry:
Another Gumdrop? :D
Maybe he wants to be the next meme?
But Gumdrop still holds the championship belt...
The battle continues!
Gumdrop sindrom perform miracles at some Devs :unsure:
He almost surpassed Gumdrop this time :cry:
Short and completely unnecessary x-mas update allows dev's to get lazy for few months. He learned from he best. Gumdrop. AKA "Milking Master"

60 1,2s loop animations in 4 months... LOOOL :LOL:
He have more in common with Nergal, Gumdrop & Wootch (devs that are saying they have a burn out and continously delay updates)
On the other hand, I never said that Nottravis is a scammer or has "Gumdrop syndrome".
I'm just saying that she overestimated her capabilities. And probably she is focused too much on the details.
In my opinion, it is not necessary to re-render the current chapters. She said that after this game is completed, she is going to introduce a female MC and add new paths. Then there will be time for such improvement. But that's just my opinion.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,120
35,689
In my opinion, it is not necessary to re-render the current chapters. She said that after this game is completed, she is going to introduce a female MC and add new paths. Then there will be time for such improvement. But that's just my opinion.
She felt that it was off-putting, and scaring away potential new players, and with the potential influx of new players due to the sex scenes being added next chapter, she wanted to put her best face forward. It's a timing thing. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 

noname777

Member
Jul 8, 2018
255
401
She felt that it was off-putting, and scaring away potential new players, and with the potential influx of new players due to the sex scenes being added next chapter, she wanted to put her best face forward. It's a timing thing. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.
 

RC-1138 Boss

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2017
13,766
21,019
Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.
I get what you mean with it delaying the course of the game but comparing improving renders from chapter 1-2(and some of 3) with what Greono did is a bit too far, he is re-doing the game from the start for the third time.
 

Oddball2k

Woof, woof, woof!
Donor
Jun 1, 2018
405
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The one post i spotted immediately in my first rapid glance at the thread, an important message from the Dev!

Thank you for letting us know about your progression to make the release of CH4 a complete success.:)
Wasn't too happy with that last render try so will park it for now.

Now then....

ON DATES....


So Four is finished as we know. Almost hit the end of August but the water stuff slowed me down a bit. But then came the remaster...

Now originally I was just going to do some of the Vanny interiors. the MC's room and the hallways which would have been around half of One, about a third of Two, a quarter of Three and, say, a tenth of Four. A lot of renders for sure but mostly fairly simple and not too demanding which meant I could do the end of September.

But, as a few of you suspected, once I started.....along came mission creep.
As i think now that i'm part of the "few", the happy few, i knew you were redoing almost... Everything!!!;)

For example the landing scene in One I wasn't going to touch but you've seen the remaster of that yesterday. How can I possibly settle for what's currently there when I can make it look like that? Would you?

Same goes for the movement system, the character idents when speaking, Vanguard on approach, Sarah's room etc etc. It's the difference between night and day. So now I'm remastering approx all of One, most of Two, about half of Three and I'm having to redo a good third of Four (Sarah's, the Mc's bedroom plus hallways in case you were wondering). I'm too scared to count them all but well over 1,200 renders is my guess.

It's a lot of very unfun work. Remember I'm a writer not an artist so the thought of having to do that many renders, especially old ones, isn't a fun activity for me. But it simply has to be done as part of the launch of Four.
"not an artist"??:unsure:
The new landing scene, IMHO, is nothing more than an artistical touch to dynamize the scene with smoke and dust and the new view angle (from the ground) to enhance the effect! I don't even speak about the new sun angle, shadow etc...
"Not an artist"? let me... be respectful!:D

"having to do that many renders, especially old ones"
What worries me(and us,no?) the most is this part, to do repetitive tasks ad nauseam.:oops:
So how long and where does that leave us?

As to how long, I honestly don't know. On the upside a lot of the earlier renders were very simple in construct and so remastering them isn't taking that much render time. Certainly much less than when they were originally done with some taking around 15 minutes as opposed to the original hour. But certainly not September at any rate. Not now the workload has increased.
Hum, will the artistical touch strike again?
Time render estimation is futile... just express yourself, have a bit of fun and let the RH do the rest.;)
So what am I going to do?

I haven't entirely decided. I obvs need to make a call and let Patrons know asap for sure but I have a little while yet - but sooner rather than better for a host of reasons not least of all the value for money angle for them.

My current thoughts are very much to freeze the patron page, crack on with the work and unfreeze it when it's done. No one can deny I'm not working on the game of course (indeed arguably harder than ever before) but given that a lot of what I'm doing is in respect to older content, it's debatable how much benefit patrons get from this.

I'm also minded to release "Bored Pilot" to all current patrons this month as a separate download just so they'll have got something for the money this month. Of course they'll have to be a new BP for Four (oh the shame!) and McGruders one will also hit the PDA at the same time so the collection remains complete in game of course.

Anyhoo, I'll just leave this here for now. I welcome your thoughts as always before I make up my mind.
to be brief as i have to read the rest of the thread also(one day and night missed), my final thoughts:

DON'T freeze the patron page, let them choose individually... no pool required!

Brill idea to perhaps release the BP as a separate download(pdf file?)... McGruder, yeah!:giggle:
A good way also to have more different chars in BP than the number of chaps would allowed.:)


One Adult Game to Rule them All.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,120
35,689
Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.
Nope, never heard of that game, but that's not what is happening here, nor is the Dual Family game, but you can look through and see for yourself, it is a clear improvement, and the delay is just a few weeks. I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to keep me busy. :ROFLMAO:
 

noname777

Member
Jul 8, 2018
255
401
I get what you mean with it delaying the course of the game but comparing improving renders from chapter 1-2(and some of 3) with what Greono did is a bit too far, he is re-doing the game from the start for the third time.
I used exaggeration to highlight the problem. It always starts with "I need to improve two animations", and ends with "I must re-render all scenes to gain a better quality".
According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.
That's a lot of time to wait. I'm afraid that too much for me.
I'm not ruling it out completely, but I think I will give it up for now.
 

DA22

Devoted Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,098
16,712
I mean, the forums is an open invitation to opinions, no?
Within reason, opinions are something else as rants though. Luckily no one here is ranting. :p

Do you know Greono, the author of Two Sides? At one point he changed the game mechanics and graphic style a bit.
But that was not enough for him. So he did a 3D remake. Unfortunately, nobody was happy with that.
He understood that this was a mistake. But instead of returning to the original idea, he did another remake.
Of course, you may notice some improvements. But was it worth the wait? I don't think so.
I wouldn't want Heavy Five to end up this way. Remakes in such games are not good for developers or players. Especially when they start before the game is finished, de facto inhibiting the whole development process.
I understand your fears, but Notty is Notty and also still a dev that is learning the craft. Even someone like Jack from Wicked Choices that has experience in Comics and Renderosity and has published a book before was surprised and got it wrong with the amount of time that a game like these take. Especially when you want to deliver quality. Notty is indeed not innocent of this.
Notty has improved a lot over the last year and she indeed has fallen for the trap of improving the game and when she started with that it was impossible for her, as was expected by me frankly having gotten to know her here a little, not to look at it all. Well at least the timing makes sense and it is something she now will have to get out of her system before she can be happy with the game. Do I fully agree with her no, does it matter No. It is her game and she is the dev that puts all the bloody hard work in. for that we get her best sides, but also that side that needs to do those improvements now. Notty is a real person and not perfectly innocent. :p
To me together with all her good sides as a dev but also as a caring person, that is a fair enough trade-off. :ROFLMAO:

Please check out the Dual Family thread to see what people really think about it. ;)
Caring for quality is good, but you have to find the golden mean.
Agreed with that but supporting a new dev also means they are still learning all these things, including their own capabilities, timings and so on, just like Notty being surprrised lewd scenes tend to take at least twice as long as normal scenes. :p. Also unfortunately you will never know until it is done whether it was worth it. She thinks it is, so I will support that decision and buy some handcuffs for when the urges tickle her again after chapter 6. (just teasing, only handcuffs will never be enough to stop her:p).

I used exaggeration to highlight the problem. It always starts with "I need to improve two animations", and ends with "I must re-render all scenes to gain a better quality".
According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.
That's a lot of time to wait. I'm afraid that too much for me.
I'm not ruling it out completely, but I think I will give it up for now.
Notty def made a very wrong early assumption about development speed of the game. Then she thought she had shortened her workload by a lot by keeping the game manageable.:p Well until the end of the game will be for sure a reasonable long time to wait. Like I said above Notty is Notty and what makes the game special is what she puts into it both the good and less perfect, she will also need a break likely at some point and some vacation, other things real life throws up will delay things and so on. I suspect somewhere 2021 is a reasonably expectation, unless any of us becomes a billionaire and can afford to pay Notty a high monthly wage and offer her a super computer to concentrate on the game. Even then it would likely be second half of 2020 or early 2021 since she would get distracted by the new challenges the new shiny computer would offer.:p So yeah it may be wise to either wait for the end or give it a spin when shiny chapter 4 comes out. I will keep a copy of the old chapters though before rework.

Or to quote one of my old posts. :p
She is and she has def improved on the composition part besides the lighting. no stopping her now, just relax, sit back and keep your towel and copy of the guide ready and most of all: DO NOT PANIC !!!
 

noname777

Member
Jul 8, 2018
255
401
Nope, never heard of that game, but that's not what is happening here, nor is the Dual Family game, but you can look through and see for yourself, it is a clear improvement, and the delay is just a few weeks. I don't know about anyone else, but I have enough to keep me busy. :ROFLMAO:
To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:


And compare it this this:


This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).
 

Oddball2k

Woof, woof, woof!
Donor
Jun 1, 2018
405
1,565
I thought Boob-off time would be at earliest in chapter 5 or 6? :p No kidding, looking lovely even if most of us might never see the surroundings. :p
It's a booby trap... eh, what surroundings??o_O
Might be worth a little look at what's in the lounge... ;)
Still no completely sure if i may visit it?!
The written commentaries on the lounge advertiser have something to do with that!:unsure::ROFLMAO:
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Well there is the poster in the hallway too!
Yeah yeah, the commented one... i'm scared!:sneaky:
She is and she has def improved on the composition part besides the lighting. no stopping her now, just relax, sit back and keep your towel and copy of the guide ready and most of all: DO NOT PANIC !!!
:LOL::ROFLMAO:, nice one!
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I'm late, i'm late... can't do anymore quotes!:mad:

*Toodles*
 

Huitieme

Scholarrior
Donor
Game Developer
Oct 9, 2018
3,108
15,707
I used exaggeration to highlight the problem. It always starts with "I need to improve two animations", and ends with "I must re-render all scenes to gain a better quality".
According to the original plan, we should see the final chapter next month. For the revised plan it was April 2020. Now we know that the 4th chapter will be released at the earliest in October and the whole game not before 2021.
That's a lot of time to wait. I'm afraid that too much for me.
I'm not ruling it out completely, but I think I will give it up for now.
Well, that's completely your choice and I can understand your disappointment in having to wait just because the dev decided to remake parts of the game you've already played through. In a way, it's also a compliment as you wouldn't feel that way if you didn't care at all. That being said, delays do happen, for whatever reasons. Sometimes, the dev gets sick (like Notty did a few months back), sometimes they get bored with the game (I don't think this will happen here), sometimes, they're just scammers and run toward the setting sun with thousands of dollars (this one I'm positive will never ever happen with Notty).

If you do feel cheated, just remember that the game is in an early stage, and any date estimation made by the dev in that case, especially when said dev works alone, is at best an optimist guess. AAA games get delayed all the time. It could be because the early graphics are not up to part with the latest ones, but we don't know, because we don't have the same kind of relationship we can have here with Notty.

What I'm trying to say is, if you do think you'd rather leave the game aside for a few and come back when more chapters are done, do so. If you think the remaster is a useless waste of time, that's your opinion as well. But don't forget that ultimately, we're either pirates with very few means to force a dev, or patrons with only financial means to force an artist down a path. If you disagree with her way of doing things, the first step is telling her, like you did, but that's also the last step for a lot of us. Insisting that what she's doing is useless might be counterproductive, though, and just lead someone less strong than Notty to completely stop working on the game (this is also an exaggeration made for the sake of the example).

All that being said, cheers mate. If you decide to put the game aside for an extended period of time, you'll be welcomed back whenever you want :)
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,120
35,689
To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:


And compare it this this:


This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).
No, she replaced her video card, and is now able to render the the full scenes in one shot, rather than layers, which allows the lighting to affect everything, making it a much more complete scene.

We understand your fears, I feel the same way about a lot of 'signs' when I see them. We can't all support every game, you have to pick and choose, if you feel uncomfortable about it, stop for a while and see how it goes. No one is going to think less of you. Most of us have seen enough from her to trust that it will be worth the wait, but if you don't, cool. give it time.
 

TomberryDude

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
1,459
5,745
To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:


And compare it this this:


This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).
Not to be rude or anything but what matters most is that the creator is satisfied with their work. I get being disappointed shit takes a long time but immediately assuming the worst of dev who may not have the experience needed to judge how much work or time is gonna go into their game is unfair in my opinion.
 

DA22

Devoted Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,098
16,712
To be honest, I'm not convinced by all these improvements. Sometimes I can clearly see the improvement, but sometimes I wonder which version is the fixed one. This was the case in the example above.
https://f95zone.to/threads/heavy-five-ch-3-v1-2-nottravis.23184/post-2415272

Now, please take a look at this:


And compare it this this:


This is a huge improvement.

What she does now is only minor changes. It is not like she is replacing Genesis 2 with Genesis 8 or something.
Anyway, my point is that the current chapters (at least the first one) are good enough and they don't need to be redone (well, maybe except the broken paths, but this can be fixed later).
You might be completely and utterly right (debatable though:)), but still it does not matter one bit. It is what Notty feels is necessary, that counts in the end. One of the little lessons I learned in life over the years is that reason never wins over feelings, once those feelings are there. :p
 
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