RPGM Henteria Chronicles Ch. 3 : The Peacekeepers [Update 15] [N_taii]

[Oriandu]

I think part of the problem, and I know I'm harping on this because I've brought it up before, is how much we have to infer from him due to his largely mute presentation. Because we don't hear his response to the sex acts he encounters we're left to make assumptions based on whatever emoticon N_Taii chooses to use.

I take his lack of forwardness when it comes to sexual activity as due to a lack of exposure to it as a kid. His parents died too early in his life for their affection towards one another to have influenced him and he was literally raised by a nun in a church and the only reason Cyanna is more comfortable with sex than Leto is because of a certain rapist pressing on her. I take his abnormal patience with not having sex with Rose as respect, from his extremely limited perspective of the events that happen around him he has no reason to believe that she's getting stuffed daily by the duke, and to avoid scandal he keeps things chaste since he's a secret boyfriend after all. Because Leto doesn't communicate directly with the audience we never see what he actually thinks, which means his responses will always be limited in what they can show us. He's a step up from Noa, who was a step up from Casio, but he's still pretty bland overall due in no small part to his muteness.

Personally my worry about Leto's sheltered nature is that N_Taii is going to replicate an event from HC1 and 2. At the end of both games deus ex machina is employed to bring about the defeat of the villains, which includes magically bestowed sexual prowess in one and hyperbolic time chamber fuck training in two for the bad endings. I'm not worried about an overall lack of sexual tension and I can overlook his constant befuddled response to sex happening in public, but it's going to be really hard to take him seriously on the revenge endings if he's going to start domming women who by that point are going to be way more experienced than him, so I'm worried that the ending is going to be unearned... again.

 

[sophpa]

If he dies - he dies.

 

[NTRprofessionalconsumer]

Been following this game for a while. Big fan but I agree that something seems to be missing from the netorare displayed when Leto interacts with the main girls. It feels like a surface-level NTR compared to something like Scars of Summer or other netorare games.

People in this thread have brought up some good points. Leto is very kind and sweet but he doesn't really have any sexual desires, or really any desires at all around these girls. He's surrounded by smoking hot women and doesn't express disappointment or frustration when Rose gets taken away from him. He's incredibly passive when a big part of NTR is humiliation. Leto is always presented as a good guy, but not a pathetic guy. None of the antagonists really care about him at all, when they should be making subtle digs and attempts to reduce his image. At the end of the day, Rose/Cyanna/Lily/Haylen should start feeling disappointed, disgusted or disinterested in their relationship with Leto.

Right now, the story just feels like he's friends with them. It's like when a friend who's a girl starts hooking up with a guy. There's no desire on your side so you don't really care at all.

I think for the next game, we should have text for the main character or make him a radically different personality. Instead of the main character being a nice guy, they should be the perfect guy. Actually let him have sex at the beginning, or start relationships and romance with the girls. Imagine how much better the netorare would be if the main character slowly starts getting lower-quality sex from Rose until she can't even be bothered to do much more than a handjob. Now that's netorare.

 

[Oriandu]

Been following this game for a while. Big fan but I agree that something seems to be missing from the netorare displayed when Leto interacts with the main girls. It feels like a surface-level NTR compared to something like Scars of Summer or other netorare games.

People in this thread have brought up some good points. Leto is very kind and sweet but he doesn't really have any sexual desires, or really any desires at all around these girls. He's surrounded by smoking hot women and doesn't express disappointment or frustration when Rose gets taken away from him. He's incredibly passive when a big part of NTR is humiliation. Leto is always presented as a good guy, but not a pathetic guy. None of the antagonists really care about him at all, when they should be making subtle digs and attempts to reduce his image. At the end of the day, Rose/Cyanna/Lily/Haylen should start feeling disappointed, disgusted or disinterested in their relationship with Leto.

Right now, the story just feels like he's friends with them. It's like when a friend who's a girl starts hooking up with a guy. There's no desire on your side so you don't really care at all.

I think for the next game, we should have text for the main character or make him a radically different personality. Instead of the main character being a nice guy, they should be the perfect guy. Actually let him have sex at the beginning, or start relationships and romance with the girls. Imagine how much better the netorare would be if the main character slowly starts getting lower-quality sex from Rose until she can't even be bothered to do much more than a handjob. Now that's netorare.

If we're being fair... Leto is friends with them. Haylen and Cyanna are his adopted family so from his perspective his relationship with them should be unshakably platonic, and Lily is his best friend so that relationship should be and has been presented as platonic. With Rose I do believe he should be more active, not necessarily having sex with her but but at the very least more romantic. As for him not having sexual desires, that's not true. We know he's attracted to Rose, we know he wants to be more intimate with her but due to her circumstances prior to the story they're keeping things secret.

I think another key problem is, unfortunately, how he compares to the female cast. They're all developing and he isn't. Rose is almost a willing participant in her relations with the duke which means sooner rather than later she'll start prioritizing him over Leto. Cyanna is almost at a breaking point in how she is treated by Ulrod, which means sooner rather than later she's probably going to start letting him dictate more of her life because she's too weak willed to stand up for herself. Lily and Haylen aren't as far along, but that should change with Haylen soon. Leto hasn't really advanced as a character in quite some time, he's still just a mid level grunt with the city guard with no exposure to the conspiracy that's taking over behind the scenes. Personally I think that needs to change, he either needs to start catching onto the strange behaviour of the women in his life or he needs to start unraveling the conspiracy. We haven't answered an ending alignment question in quite a while and the main plot hasn't advanced much even in Rose and Cyanna's content in a while. Leto would feel less pathetic if he was actually doing something that mattered.

 

[NTRprofessionalconsumer]

If we're being fair... Leto is friends with them. Haylen and Cyanna are his adopted family so from his perspective his relationship with them should be unshakably platonic, and Lily is his best friend so that relationship should be and has been presented as platonic. With Rose I do believe he should be more active, not necessarily having sex with her but but at the very least more romantic. As for him not having sexual desires, that's not true. We know he's attracted to Rose, we know he wants to be more intimate with her but due to her circumstances prior to the story they're keeping things secret.

I think another key problem is, unfortunately, how he compares to the female cast. They're all developing and he isn't. Rose is almost a willing participant in her relations with the duke which means sooner rather than later she'll start prioritizing him over Leto. Cyanna is almost at a breaking point in how she is treated by Ulrod, which means sooner rather than later she's probably going to start letting him dictate more of her life because she's too weak willed to stand up for herself. Lily and Haylen aren't as far along, but that should change with Haylen soon. Leto hasn't really advanced as a character in quite some time, he's still just a mid level grunt with the city guard with no exposure to the conspiracy that's taking over behind the scenes. Personally I think that needs to change, he either needs to start catching onto the strange behaviour of the women in his life or he needs to start unraveling the conspiracy. We haven't answered an ending alignment question in quite a while and the main plot hasn't advanced much even in Rose and Cyanna's content in a while. Leto would feel less pathetic if he was actually doing something that mattered.

You bring up good points. I think for me, ideally, Leto would have a reason to view Ulrod/The Duke and the other two as enemies, not just as random people. He has no vested interest in them growing closer with his friend, his adopted family and his girlfriend. He just does not care.

I want Leto to start disliking the Duke. Start despising Jazon. I want him to butt heads with Ulrod and Nezar. Have our main character start fighting back for the people in his life. I know it's NTR, so it ends badly for Leto, but it should end badly after days and weeks and months of him trying his best to sway those close to him. Only to fail in the end.

Imagine if he unearths the conspiracy and tries to get Rose on board... Only failing to convince her in the end after several quests. What if he needs Cyanna to back him up in an attempt to sneak into the Duke's manor? Only for her to betray or backstab him because she doesn't 'believe' his motives.

We need Leto to feel emotion and we need Leto to be burnt by the corruption of these girls. Right now it really does just feel like life is going on. Perhaps it's a side effect of the development taking so long. But I still think we need more harshness/pain/suffering for Leto, and for Leto to actually feel it. Not just ignore it/not see it happen.

 

[Ion.TemUS]

I think you all make good points.

If we are talking about possible end game scenarios - and I think it is really great to talk about that especially now, because now N_taii probably already has a plan for the end but hasnt finalized it yet since its still a bit far off - then I think we need to go at this from a different angle.

I see any possible "positive" ending for Leto actually not being a "revenge" ending but more of a "moral victory" ending. The way we have set up Leto so far, with all of his virtues, his incredible ability to stay cool-headed in most situations, his incorruptibility and his knightliness he is definitely a hero archetype. As a hero it would not make sense for him to take "revenge" by "domming" the women who are far more experienced then him. I think the main catalyst of his "revenge/redemption" would have to work through world-events. Such as him being able to defeat or arrest antagonists like The Duke and Ulrod for their scheming and crimes, defeating them in combat and leadership abilities. Building alliances and employing help (maybe also from outside the realm) to stabilize the region and topple the people scheming to take power.

His victory would probably be of a somewhat pyrrhic nature, albeit not classically pyrrhic. He would free the realm and free the girls. His ability to be noble of character would have to win out over the girls desires and corruption and his ability to show them real love would have to overcome pure carnal desire. He would have to be forgiving to the "betrayal" the girls - or rather the specific girl he ends up choosing - has committed, he would have to have the ability to look beyond what the other girls (which he does possibly not end up with, assuming there is no surprise harem ending) have done and not reduce them to their actions, not judge them for their prior corruption. That would also open the door for individual endings for each of the girls that he does not end up with, such as the possibility of a Cyanna or Haylen to still end up with someone or having been corrupted a certain way and continuing sexual behavior in the ending without it being a "bad ending". Would feel organic too. The girls HAVE changed, but the kingdom is safe and Leto gets his gril and they worked stuff out. It would be a moral high-ground ending. Tho idk how many people will like that. Maybe you all can tell me what you think about it.

I think the only OTHER thing I can imagine being a "revenge" ending where Leto actually resolves the issues AND sticks it to the girls is that he does NOT forgive them and finds another love interest. But that love interest would have to be set up some time soon between now and the end as a constant character that helps and interacts with Leto and is somebody the audience can start to like in character and find desirable on a physical level.

 

[Oriandu]

The one stumbling block for a proper revenge ending will always be N_Taii himself. By his own admission he has a hard time unleashing proper revenge on the female cast because they're his creations. Ironically he has no problem tearing them down from upstanding citizens to subjugated cumdumps under their partners and he clearly has no issues making his MCs look like absolute dog shit. If he's listening to the thread then he knows that a desire to see the women punished exists as in two completed games and eight women he's only actually punished one of them in the "bad" endings.

 

[Miss Y]

I think part of the problem, and I know I'm harping on this because I've brought it up before, is how much we have to infer from him due to his largely mute presentation. Because we don't hear his response to the sex acts he encounters we're left to make assumptions based on whatever emoticon N_Taii chooses to use.

Addressing this specific point... It's definitely limiting to have a mostly-silent protagonist, but there are ways around it to show things more visually and imply some characterization through context. Just to throw out one generic example, there could be a scene of him fantasizing about Rose during a moment of acute frustration before sneaking off to meet here somewhere, so that he can get that out of his system and will be able to keep his urges under control around her... But then having his imaginary Rose transform into Cyanna or Haylen in a way that genuinely freaks him out. That it isn't something he willingly enjoys, but his mind just wanders there on its own and he can't prevent it from happening because every relationship in his life is becoming more sexually charged and it is having a negative effect on him beyond just making him sad once the curtain is finally pulled away.

Or going back to the aftermath of Cyanna's confession even if it is far too late to change that now, I feel like it would've landed a lot harder to give him some long-term reaction to that, where he is the one to pull away from her in a way that might not even be an intentional choice on his part, but just the consequence of him innocently trying to avoid any awkward conversations with her. That she would clearly be trying to apologize for what happened, but he is so determined to not talk about it at all that he finds excuses to not be alone with her out of some hope that they can both just ignore the elephant in the room until it disappears on its own. From that mistake, their relationship stops being so platonic without turning Leto into some cartoonish sex addict because Cyanna's actions put that thought into his head where he can't just instantly go back to looking at her like he did before.

Given his background and upbringing, it does make sense for him to be pretty naïve about sex, but I think the issue for me comes with portraying that as so easy and frictionless for him. At the risk of getting too personal, I grew up in a deeply religious area where my first introduction to "sexual education" was being lectured on how the only moral and effective form of birth control was to hold a pill of aspirin between my knees, so I'm pretty familiar with voluntary abstinence to know that it is messy and takes a staggering amount of willpower — which is where you get the stereotype of people creating ridiculously technical loopholes, because those sexual urges just happen on their own and aren't some Pandora's box situation that can be safely ignored as long as you don't choose to open it. But that is often how it feels to me with Leto's character, that he just doesn't experience those feelings to begin with because he hasn't had sex yet... which really isn't how virgins work at all in my experience!

But more generally, I do strongly agree with your other overall point that it's mostly standing out to me because Leto's character has become so stagnant and he does need some kind of agency in the narrative to avoid running in parallel to how Noah felt in Chapter 2. Other than poisoning or knocking out "Boss" in the undercover update, it's hard to ignore the feeling that he's just been coasting along as the story unfolds around him for a long stretch of recent updates and he has barely changed at all over the course of at least seven or eight updates, because the current formula hinges so heavily on him being so unwaveringly pure-hearted and clueless about what is going on in order to preserve his innocence until the "big reveal" at some point in the future.

 

[haywire_hero]

You bring up good points. I think for me, ideally, Leto would have a reason to view Ulrod/The Duke and the other two as enemies, not just as random people. He has no vested interest in them growing closer with his friend, his adopted family and his girlfriend. He just does not care.

I want Leto to start disliking the Duke. Start despising Jazon. I want him to butt heads with Ulrod and Nezar. Have our main character start fighting back for the people in his life. I know it's NTR, so it ends badly for Leto, but it should end badly after days and weeks and months of him trying his best to sway those close to him. Only to fail in the end.

Imagine if he unearths the conspiracy and tries to get Rose on board... Only failing to convince her in the end after several quests. What if he needs Cyanna to back him up in an attempt to sneak into the Duke's manor? Only for her to betray or backstab him because she doesn't 'believe' his motives.

We need Leto to feel emotion and we need Leto to be burnt by the corruption of these girls. Right now it really does just feel like life is going on. Perhaps it's a side effect of the development taking so long. But I still think we need more harshness/pain/suffering for Leto, and for Leto to actually feel it. Not just ignore it/not see it happen.

Why would Leto view any of the rivals as enemies?

The Duke publicly praises Leto in court, and provides opportunities for his advancement. He even encouraged him to be more proactive. He's essentially been his biggest cheerleader to his face. All while constantly pushing him into situations where he can interact with Rose.

With Ulrod I doubt Leto thinks the guy is pleasant to be around. But his more despicable acts Leto hasn't actually seen. His most substantial interactions with him resulted in Ulrod saving his life, I think twice. Outside of that he's curt with Leto, but he's mostly like that with others as well, at least from what Leto has seen. Coupled with the fact he's technically his commanding officer. One that's made concessions to help Letos advancement in his career and prove his self to Cyanna.

Nezar is a well to do old guy he's known since childhood. One that mostly says things in a fairly respectable way. He's also helped out Lily by setting her up with the job she's had at the tavern. And, he's helped her again by giving her a job in his shop. So, for Leto's outside perspective of him, it'd just be the front that Nezar has presented himself for the majority of Leto's life. While being someone that's activley helped one of his closests friends on multiple occasions.

Jazon is basically the only one that he doesn't have the highest opinion of. As Leto didn't hesitate to warn Haylen in the confessional booth that he's not as curteous as he's pretending. Jazon is also the only one that has been more directly rude to Leto's face. But, he still hasn't shown Leto anything that would cause Leto to hate the guy. He most likely just sees him as kind of a lazy ass. Also, Haylen has outright said to Leto she plans on helping Jazon change his ways. From Leto's perspective he probably sees some of that influence bearing fruit. As he had recently seen Jazon actually doing his job helping a kid.

Leto does try fighting to protect the girls. But, that protection is him fighting monsters and people that seek to hurt their home. He just doesn't see that the fight isn't just external it's internal.

 

[Oriandu]

Therein lies a large part of the problem... Leto is too uninvolved. He's in a position that makes him useful to the duke as Leto has a reputation for heroics. In the case of Ulrod he could easily become a thorn in his commander's side by simply continuing to perform to the best of his ability. In the most recent update we have confirmation that Nezar is either a member of or associate to the duke's conspiracy, and as Lily's friend and occasional helper with her duties at both the bar and the magic shop Leto is in a position to notice suspicious happenings. The only character he's not really in the position to interfere with his Jazon and that's only because Jazon is at this stage nothing but a worthless horndog going after a woman who should have just kicked him square in the nuts and then went along with her day.

Leto is well placed to do something about the duke's secret society and their machinations for the peacekeepers, but so far nothing has happened. Unfortunately I think it's going to turn out like HC2 where Noa didn't figure out something was wrong until the situation was so bad that there was nothing to do but continuously shit on him. I hope that isn't the case here but it's starting to feel like Leto is going to be up against the 8 ball without fully comprehending how bad things are. I'm starting to get HC2 deja vu, and that's not a good thing.

 

[haywire_hero]

Therein lies a large part of the problem... Leto is too uninvolved. He's in a position that makes him useful to the duke as Leto has a reputation for heroics. In the case of Ulrod he could easily become a thorn in his commander's side by simply continuing to perform to the best of his ability. In the most recent update we have confirmation that Nezar is either a member of or associate to the duke's conspiracy, and as Lily's friend and occasional helper with her duties at both the bar and the magic shop Leto is in a position to notice suspicious happenings. The only character he's not really in the position to interfere with his Jazon and that's only because Jazon is at this stage nothing but a worthless horndog going after a woman who should have just kicked him square in the nuts and then went along with her day.

Leto is well placed to do something about the duke's secret society and their machinations for the peacekeepers, but so far nothing has happened. Unfortunately I think it's going to turn out like HC2 where Noa didn't figure out something was wrong until the situation was so bad that there was nothing to do but continuously shit on him. I hope that isn't the case here but it's starting to feel like Leto is going to be up against the 8 ball without fully comprehending how bad things are. I'm starting to get HC2 deja vu, and that's not a good thing.

Leto isn't uninvolved. He's a central part of every story. The only one I can think of that he doesn't play some critical role in the development is Nezar's corruption of Lily, but with the latest update he was driving force to pull Lily out of her mirror addiction.

But everywhere else all the rivals plans and the main issues revolve around the actions of Leto. Hell even the underlying history of the world is now tied to Leto after he met with those villagers. Honestly every single plan that The Duke has come up with has involved Leto. That includes using him to help tie Rose to himself. Specifically by telling her that he wants Rose and Leto to be together. Then using that established relationship to corrupt her.

Same with Ulrod he needed Leto the most of all the rivals. As Cyanna wouldn't have followed any of his commands. Using Leto and sending him on missions. Was in a roundabout way holding him hostage. As it put his life in mortal danger which prompted Cyanna to do anything to protect him. Leto excelling at his job doesn't make him a thorn in the side of Ulrod. It'd be the exact opposite. As he wants him to excel as it means he can keep putting him in danger. Which serves his purpose and The Dukes as well.

With Haylen's corruption, she constantly asks for assistance from Leto when dealing with Jazon's issues. Her good nature and willingness to help others has her seeking the help of Leto. All the stories and the main one involve Leto. But, none of them would've happened if he didn't actively agree to help or do things. In fact if he was less involved then the plans of the rivals wouldn't have gotten very far.

Also, Leto isn't well placed to do anything about The Duke and his cabal. Whatever Nezar is doing with The Duke doesn't routinely involve his shop. Which is the only place Leto really interacts with him on the rare instances that he does. The Duke again hasn't done anything. Why would Leto decide to just start investigating him? I mean, he's apart of the guards where he still has to follow orders. There's no reason to do any investigation that he isn't assigned to do. There's just no logical reason for him to just jump to start Scooby Dooing. He's given assignments that have him out of the city to face constant external threats such as the monsters and pirates. So that's where he focuses his attention with threats. Then when he is in the city he's doing his job, being a guard. Not a private investigator.

 

[Oriandu]

It feels like you read my post and didn't understand it. At no point did I say he wasn't involved, I said he was "too uninvolved" and then followed that by acknowledging his positioning in everything but Haylen's storyline because as of this point Haylen's storyline is irrelevant to the overall story of the game. That may change but you could excise everything about her corruption from the game and the main story would not have not be altered all that much. As for Ulrod... Regardless of Ulrod's intentions if Leto does his job too well he'll garner more acclaim and his actions will carry more weight and a hostage that becomes too important stops being a hostage at a certain point. Leto excelling at the dangerous missions Ulrod sends him on means the duke will find him more useful which means Ulrod's ability to keep him endangered to control Cyanna could weaken. The events with the aboriginal people on the island will certainly lead to something but up until this point they haven't, which is again part of the problem since even if they reveal something to him when the main story picks back up he's still going to be lacking in a believable way forward.

The story is happening around Leto. He's part of the events because he has to be, but he's not involved in them. He certainly will learn more in the future but we've passed a lot of major milestones and he's still ten steps behind. He's been around or part of events that could have lead him down a path to gaining a hint or two, to give him some kind of clue as to the darker tides his loved ones are slowly being dragged beneath, but as of yet that has not happened to a particularly large degree and that could lead him down a path similar to Casio and Noa where he catches onto what is happening far too late to do anything. Which lead to the deus ex machina of the first two games and a lot of unnecessary shitting on the previous main characters. What I'm saying, and I can't believe I have to explain this, is that Leto is too far behind because he's not been given an adequate amount of information to work with. I'm not suggesting he just leap to looking for clues in the abandoned lighthouse up at the cape with his plucky band of hippie friends and his dog, I'm suggesting that he should have been given more clues to give him a reason to do so. I don't want a random god to just show up and teach Leto how to make sexy time with his girlfriend who chose a fat, porcine old man over him and to give him the magic bauble he needs to save the day, but that's where it feels like it's going again because Leto doesn't know anything important and we're past the halfway point in the story.

 

[JagOvv SmearOvv]

Can this update come any quicker? I can't take anymore walls of texts.

 

[haywire_hero]

It feels like you read my post and didn't understand it. At no point did I say he wasn't involved, I said he was "too uninvolved" and then followed that by acknowledging his positioning in everything but Haylen's storyline because as of this point Haylen's storyline is irrelevant to the overall story of the game. That may change but you could excise everything about her corruption from the game and the main story would not have not be altered all that much. As for Ulrod... Regardless of Ulrod's intentions if Leto does his job too well he'll garner more acclaim and his actions will carry more weight and a hostage that becomes too important stops being a hostage at a certain point. Leto excelling at the dangerous missions Ulrod sends him on means the duke will find him more useful which means Ulrod's ability to keep him endangered to control Cyanna could weaken. The events with the aboriginal people on the island will certainly lead to something but up until this point they haven't, which is again part of the problem since even if they reveal something to him when the main story picks back up he's still going to be lacking in a believable way forward.

The story is happening around Leto. He's part of the events because he has to be, but he's not involved in them. He certainly will learn more in the future but we've passed a lot of major milestones and he's still ten steps behind. He's been around or part of events that could have lead him down a path to gaining a hint or two, to give him some kind of clue as to the darker tides his loved ones are slowly being dragged beneath, but as of yet that has not happened to a particularly large degree and that could lead him down a path similar to Casio and Noa where he catches onto what is happening far too late to do anything. Which lead to the deus ex machina of the first two games and a lot of unnecessary shitting on the previous main characters. What I'm saying, and I can't believe I have to explain this, is that Leto is too far behind because he's not been given an adequate amount of information to work with. I'm not suggesting he just leap to looking for clues in the abandoned lighthouse up at the cape with his plucky band of hippie friends and his dog, I'm suggesting that he should have been given more clues to give him a reason to do so. I don't want a random god to just show up and teach Leto how to make sexy time with his girlfriend who chose a fat, porcine old man over him and to give him the magic bauble he needs to save the day, but that's where it feels like it's going again because Leto doesn't know anything important and we're past the halfway point in the story.

No, I did understand your point. But, I'm highlighting that the things you bring up are mostly things that aren't apart of the story. With a lot of it being largely against what makes an NTR story. A lot of actions are outside the MC control. It isn't some harem power fantasy setup, where the MC just stumbles into every situation, finds all the plans of the villain, and so they thwart them at every turn. Which is the bulk of the scenarios you try to present. Even though they don't logically fit or connect with anything that's happened so far.

Ulrod for example isn't bothered by Leto becoming more well known. As he works for The Duke, who has already said in multiple scenes that he wants Leto to rise up. As it will allow Rose to be with Leto, as a coupling with them wouldn't have worked if he was some nobody. The Dukes plans working is the clear primary goal of Ulrod. As Ulrod is a henchman of the Duke. Ulrod already got the one thing he actually wants and that's Cyanna. And he's already begun breaking her down and getting her accustomed to he's form of affection. So, no it doesn't matter to Ulrod that Leto rises up, because again that's what The Duke wants.

I can't believe I have to say this. But, this is an NTR story. The MC is either going to know everything and get shit on far worse then what's been happening. Or they'll be behind on the the development/corruption of those around them. You keep trying to make up some power fantasy scenarios. The games are specifically geared to have the MC oblivious to a point. Specifically to avoid the MC being royally shit on all throughout. If you don't like the genre/fetish go play one of the countless harem power fantasy games. Where the MC is met with no hurdles and any semblance of a potential threat is squashed one scene later. This is clearly not the type of storytellng you want.

 

[NTRprofessionalconsumer]

I agree fully with what both of you are saying in the sense that:

A) A netorare story relies on the protagonist ultimately never fully catching on until it's too late, otherwise they're seen as pathetic or incompetent- Or both.

B) Leto has no reason to dislike/hate the antagonists- AND that's an issue.

It's obviously been written that Leto is oblivious, if you can even call it that. It's logical sense that he wouldn't know this grand conspiracy happening behind the curtains. Why would he know? Haywire_hero is correct in this sense. My issue, and this might be premature considering we haven't truly hit the climax of the story yet, is that having conflict between the corruptor and the protagonist is important to the netorare fetish.

The logical endpoint of NTR is that the corruption gets to a level where the girl actively chooses to discard the protagonist. Right now, for all of these women bar Rose, there is no choice to make. They're not having sex with Leto, they aren't in a romantic relationship. Haylen has her hang-ups, but Lily and Cyanna are single women who can make their own decisions. In fact, it's reasonable to suggest that it's good for Cyanna to be with Ulrod instead of pining over a man in a long-term relationship.

Leto is a good person, an upstanding guy. Why does he care about Cyanna sleeping with Ulrod? Why does he care about Nezar training Lily, or Jason and Haylen?

Some of you are probably thinking: "The NTR comes from the loss of their relationship."

You are right, that is a form of netorare and that's fine... But doesn't it come across as immature for Leto to get upset that Cyanna, for example, is in a relationship? I don't think any of us consider ourselves an NTR protagonist when one of our friends gets in a new relationship and has an abundant sex life. Hell, I've seen a fair few friends get changed for the worse by their partner. For a mature and normal person, this doesn't really cause much heartbreak.

So we need some form of betrayal. Something that goes from, "You're my friend, you can do what you want" into "How could you do this to me?"

With Rose, it's obvious. I don't necessarily need Leto to hate Nezar, Ulrod, or Jason. I just need the twist of the dagger. Cyanna could end up complicit in the conspiracy at some point- I can see a scene where she's commanded to guard something and ends up fighting and defeating Leto in a duel. Her choosing to protect a grand conspiracy out of lust for Ulrod's cock, turning 'evil' would be a good example.

Lily and Haylen are a bit more complicated as they aren't involved in the main story (why the creator has chosen this, I'll never understand. Especially considering everybody plays the side stories anyways!).

Sorry for posting so many long comments but just wanted to emphasise my point on why I think Leto should hate the antagonists. There's still plenty of time for that hate/dislike to develop, too. I'm sure considering where the last main quest left off, Leto is going to discover the conspiracy finally... Which in turn might aid some of my issues.

Tldr; Aside from Rose, none of the characters feel as if they're being stolen from Leto and there isn't any betrayal going on.

 

[Miss Y]

I can't believe I have to say this. But, this is an NTR story. The MC is either going to know everything and get shit on far worse then what's been happening. Or they'll be behind on the the development/corruption of those around them. You keep trying to make up some power fantasy scenarios. The games are specifically geared to have the MC oblivious to a point. Specifically to avoid the MC being royally shit on all throughout. If you don't like the genre/fetish go play one of the countless harem power fantasy games. Where the MC is met with no hurdles and any semblance of a potential threat is squashed one scene later. This is clearly not the type of storytellng you want.

I think the point of frustration isn't from actually wanting to prevent the NTR by having Leto thwart the whole conspiracy halfway through the game, but that it feels far too reminiscent of the previous game with how there is no give-and-take between the main character and the villains. They've essentially been doing a victory lap for over a year now while Leto is vibing in the corner until someone orders him to go buy some cigarettes for them at the corner store. He's destined to lose, but there is a serious lack of suspense when there is no actual conflict going on to lead us there. I think it is significant to point out that the only meaningful setback the villains have experienced since the prologue was being ambushed by pirates in Update 8 in a way that had nothing to do with Leto's actions. (In fact, he managed to protect the conspiracy by just standing around and doing nothing!)

Also, the pacing hasn't done it any favors either. Chapter 2's demo was released in September 2020, and the final update came out January 2022. About a year and a half, and likely felt quite a bit shorter depending on when some people first discovered it. Meanwhile, we are almost two years deep into Chapter 3's development now, likely with at least another six months bare minimum based on where the narrative is sitting at the moment.

Obviously, the graphical quality takes its toll and that is just the inevitable cost of the sprites and environments looking so much better now, so this isn't an argument of saying that the game is "behind schedule" and should be finished already. But I think it is important to recognize how that might impact the story, when it feels like the game is taking twice the amount of time to hit the same overall plot beats. And while the new art assets have been a massive upgrade from the previous game... Well, the narrative started out really strong but over time, it feels like it has been steadily slipping back into territory which Chapter 2 already strip-mined thoroughly with how it treated Noah as the protagonist.

To put it another way, it's like being told the same joke a second time, except this one takes 30 minutes to hit the punchline.

 

[haywire_hero]

I think the point of frustration isn't from actually wanting to prevent the NTR by having Leto thwart the whole conspiracy halfway through the game, but that it feels far too reminiscent of the previous game with how there is no give-and-take between the main character and the villains. They've essentially been doing a victory lap for over a year now while Leto is vibing in the corner until someone orders him to go buy some cigarettes for them at the corner store. He's destined to lose, but there is a serious lack of suspense when there is no actual conflict going on to lead us there. I think it is significant to point out that the only meaningful setback the villains have experienced since the prologue was being ambushed by pirates in Update 8 in a way that had nothing to do with Leto's actions. (In fact, he managed to protect the conspiracy by just standing around and doing nothing!)

Also, the pacing hasn't done it any favors either. Chapter 2's demo was released in September 2020, and the final update came out January 2022. About a year and a half, and likely felt quite a bit shorter depending on when some people first discovered it. Meanwhile, we are almost two years deep into Chapter 3's development now, likely with at least another six months bare minimum based on where the narrative is sitting at the moment.

Obviously, the graphical quality takes its toll and that is just the inevitable cost of the sprites and environments looking so much better now, so this isn't an argument of saying that the game is "behind schedule" and should be finished already. But I think it is important to recognize how that might impact the story, when it feels like the game is taking twice the amount of time to hit the same overall plot beats. And while the new art assets have been a massive upgrade from the previous game... Well, the narrative started out really strong but over time, it feels like it has been steadily slipping back into territory which Chapter 2 already strip-mined thoroughly with how it treated Noah as the protagonist.

To put it another way, it's like being told the same joke a second time, except this one takes 30 minutes to hit the punchline.

What you're describing is just the nature of the fetish being used more purposely, rather than like a sledgehammer. The whole series is a slow burn NTR story. Where the corruption is the primary focus, but done so that it's not instant changes with the LIs. The time it's taken has only now gotten all the Rivals at least to the stage of fucking.

The conflict is the mystery of the island and the history of the their world. Not some struggle between stopping the rivals. That isn't what the games have been about at all. But, him inadvertently helping the rivals in their endeavors is what I talked about in my other post. I said, if he did less and was less involved they wouldn't get very far. That's apart of the tragedy within the story he is involved in the corruption of the girls, he just doesn't know it. His notoriety plays into their hands. When he wins in life, he loses in other ways such as the girls. This isn't Scars of Summer where you can play a more active role in stopping the rivals.

The dev has always been upfront about what the series is. We're experiencing a kinetic story that has a very specific narrative line depicitng the slow and inevitable corruption of all the girls.

This is from start to finish a Netorare series. The dev just made this MC more competent. But, he's not gaining the upper hand in any real capacity. If that bugs people, look towards another series.

 

[NTRprofessionalconsumer]

What you're describing is just the nature of the fetish being used more purposely, rather than like a sledgehammer. The whole series is a slow burn NTR story. Where the corruption is the primary focus, but done so that it's not instant changes with the LIs. The time it's taken has only now gotten all the Rivals at least to the stage of fucking.

The conflict is the mystery of the island and the history of the their world. Not some struggle between stopping the rivals. That isn't what the games have been about at all. But, him inadvertently helping the rivals in their endeavors is what I talked about in my other post. I said, if he did less and was less involved they wouldn't get very far. That's apart of the tragedy within the story he is involved in the corruption of the girls, he just doesn't know it. His notoriety plays into their hands. When he wins in life, he loses in other ways such as the girls. This isn't Scars of Summer where you can play a more active role in stopping the rivals.

The dev has always been upfront about what the series is. We're experiencing a kinetic story that has a very specific narrative line depicitng the slow and inevitable corruption of all the girls.

This is from start to finish a Netorare series. The dev just made this MC more competent. But, he's not gaining the upper hand in any real capacity. If that bugs people, look towards another series.

I appreciate what you're saying but if the developer wishes to write more a story than an NTR game, then they need to follow the tenants of good story-writing above all. The main character being so insipid and having little impact leaves him feeling limp in the story.

I really do think these issues are going to be fixed regardless. Like Miss Y says, for people who have been following week by week, the pacing is atrocious. That's only because we're progressing through a part of the story that is purposefully slow. I do believe that Leto will become a more interesting character once he has decisions, choices to grapple with- And starts seeing the consequences of the corruption going on.

I don't want Leto to thwart the conspiracy. I just want him to try, and for the girls around him to stop him- On purpose or otherwise.

A slight aside- It would be interesting, now that we know Jason and Nezar are involved with the conspiracy on some level, if the final quests of the side girls involved Leto trying to save them from the conspiracy. Again, giving Leto some agency in the paths these women are walking.

 

[haywire_hero]

I appreciate what you're saying but if the developer wishes to write more a story than an NTR game, then they need to follow the tenants of good story-writing above all. The main character being so insipid and having little impact leaves him feeling limp in the story.

I really do think these issues are going to be fixed regardless. Like Miss Y says, for people who have been following week by week, the pacing is atrocious. That's only because we're progressing through a part of the story that is purposefully slow. I do believe that Leto will become a more interesting character once he has decisions, choices to grapple with- And starts seeing the consequences of the corruption going on.

I don't want Leto to thwart the conspiracy. I just want him to try, and for the girls around him to stop him- On purpose or otherwise.

A slight aside- It would be interesting, now that we know Jason and Nezar are involved with the conspiracy on some level, if the final quests of the side girls involved Leto trying to save them from the conspiracy. Again, giving Leto some agency in the paths these women are walking.

What site do you think you're on? These are porn games. There isn't a single game on this platform that could qualify as good story-writing. Anyone that says otherwise is full of it. They're all following specific story conveniences to fit the fetishes within the cobbled together made up scenes. This is a Netorare story. Same as all the other games have specific fetish stories. If you're looking for something more than a fetish story, go to a library.

Also, no shit the Leto will eventually find out. But, it's supposed to be when it's too late. That's the development and that's what the story has been since it's inception. So, yeah he'll hate them later on. As I said before only with the last update have all the rivals gotten to the stage of fucking. And as slow burn NTR stories reach their climax is when the protagonist realises the tragedy their caught in. Every update has pushed the stories of the individual LIs. If you're really bothered by the pacing. Stop playing the game and wait for it to be completed. The developer has already completed two other games. So, the likelyhood of this one being completed is high.

 

[NTRprofessionalconsumer]

What site do you think you're on? These are porn games. There isn't a single game on this platform that could qualify as good story-writing. Anyone that says otherwise is full of it. They're all following specific story conveniences to fit the fetishes within the cobbled together made up scenes. This is a Netorare story. Same as all the other games have specific fetish stories. If you're looking for something more than a fetish story, go to a library.

Also, no shit the Leto will eventually find out. But, it's supposed to be when it's too late. That's the development and that's what the story has been since it's inception. So, yeah he'll hate them later on. As I said before only with the last update have all the rivals gotten to the stage of fucking. And as slow burn NTR stories reach their climax is when the protagonist realises the tragedy their caught in. Every update has pushed the stories of the individual LIs. If you're really bothered by the pacing. Stop playing the game and wait for it to be completed. The developer has already completed two other games. So, the likelyhood of this one being completed is high.

Why are you so angry? We're only having a discussion!

I think it's a shame to so eagerly discredit somebody's work as nothing more than a porn game. Sure, a lot of the stuff on this site is... Low effort to say the least. But every creator on this site has the chance to create art with their work. I mean, this developer has proven that he can write quite well and develop characters in a decent manner. Call me an idealist but I do believe that you can have a good story in an NTR RPGmaker game!

I'm not bothered by the pacing, just anxious and worried over some recent decisions the story has taken. That's all. And clearly I'm not alone as other people have been voicing similar concerns. I trust the developer, however. So I'll wait and see when the next update comes out.