Ren'Py Hero Party Must Fall [v0.5.0 Bugfix 2] [Nitrolith]
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This is a good discussion avenue I feel.
We are all forced into situations where we are forced to make decisions or act certain ways.
But don't we all always have a choice? The main idea behind Mars' motivation is to make sure the hero fails. This, at least, is his basis to insert himself to the party.
But as the story progressed, his motivations change as well. Obviously he is also threatened and has to adapt to survive. By the way, the small story beats where you felt Mars could be killed were fun too. It gave the idea that Mars' mission wasn't guaranteed, and he could easily be killed. Maybe dead ends where Mars is killed could be fun and immersive.
Anyway, motivation and intent is important, but Mars explicitly behaves in ways that will hurt other characters and scar them emotionally. Which is fine I think, it's also fun to explore evil in controlled settings. But I don't believe the idea of 'he was trying to help' is good enough to atone him. The last update also touches on the lore, and seems to atone him somewhat, but should he really be atoned? He still caused a lot of irreversible psychological hurt.
I think the main problem also arises from the fact that his responsibilities are not translated into gameplay elements yet, or won't be. I think the dungeon aspect or the fights could really help in this regard, with Mars (proxy for the player) working hard on strategies to overcome struggles, or maybe try to dupe the Goddess and try to redeem himself.
I think its also nice that there are different views in this regard. Different perspectives is always good
- Jun 23, 2018
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Dunno what happened but in my game people started referring to Cecille as "51" half the time....
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- Jan 13, 2019
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I respectfully disagree on the matter whether Mars is out of character for getting involved with the NPCs and that lore wise it does not make sense. Obviously you are the dev and the writer and know the intentions behind it but each NPC that got updated. I would argue nearly every character including main cast Mars is trying to help in his own way the best he can as a flawed individual. I think most lives that Mars has interfered with have actually improved. I think the Elena path does confirm that Mars is doing the best he can while operating within the confines of the world's cruel setting and difficult scenario he finds himself in. Which is why he can break at the end of the route as he found someone he can rely outside of Vi. I think a lot of players ignore nuance of morality in the setting you have created to say otherwise.
Just to give a couple of examples of both main cast and NPCs.
Sera's delusion and longing after Erin that could never happen is destroyed by Mars in her route and he starts to give her a real sense of purpose especially if you combine it with the Marika content.
Jasmin is clearly a good person that became disillusioned with the world due to her father's terrible behavior and she kept trying to do the right thing even if it was naive and not possible. Mars ends the tryanny of her father and gives her a chance at a real possible future that might be viable and allows her good nature to flourish. Otherwise she would have gone around seducing thugs to try and do the right thing and would eventually run into a dead end as Mars said.
I think to say your writing for the NPC routes is nonsensical and just there to appeal to kinks and fetishes discredits the effort you put into your writing. I think you are being too hard on yourself here.
I have no idea how you're eating up the shit the actual gaslit girls are throwing to you after their content is done. They're fucked in the mind. Yvet's entire family is entirely fucked up when Mars is done with them. Her father becomes a mentally fucked person who is so happy Mars got both his wife and daughter pregnant. Even Mars himself is disgusted and revolted by the man. Gwyndolin is kidnapped and pretty much forcibly brainwashed. Elena becomes a caricature of herself, she becomes an actual cultist, thinking that the more human women bear demon children the better the world will become and that is the duty of every human woman to bear a demon child. She goes around showing ass and tits around the village saying to horny men that they should send their wives and daughters to Mars' brothel so he can knock them up. Are you skipping all of the dialogue?
How in the everlasting fuck is that Mars helping people? Mars himself is disgusted by all this and always starts with rejecting the person in front, telling them their life will be ruined. You're forcing Mars to continue as the player, that is why it's illogical. Mars has 0 intention to help anyone when you force him to first drug and brainwash and then fuck the fake priestess to completely ruin her life. Mars left behind his life in the cult as an impregnator of all women just because he hated that continuous ruining of life. The pigobi woman, to give another example. She was content. She was getting money to support her great boyfriend. You swoop in and utterly ultrafuck their lives by impregnating the girl and turning the guy into a sissy cuck. Ruining their relationship. Sure the cult went in and all but Mars chose to interact with these people even after the cult got their hands on them if you do the NPC content. How the fuck is that logical for a good, benevolent Mars who only does the bare minimum of evil to achieve his goal to do?
The NPC content is optional and illogical BECAUSE it makes no sense with Mars' character of "trying to do better, and to find a better path for everyone involved." He regrets his past. He hates what his mom made him to be. In all of the NPC content, by actively participating in the cult and impregnating random women you're actively regressing Mars into what he once was and regrets being.
If you enjoy the fetish content, sure. Go for it. I myself enjoyed it. But I think you're massively misinterpreting the character of Mars and all of the NPCs you interacted with. I doubt you read the dialogue properly.
As for Sera's content, that's a main character and her story makes sense. It also takes a really long time and is well developed. Mars also actively needs Sera, so even if he hurts her in the process he needs to do what he does (though her story mellows out, she does lose an eye)
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Yeah with Iris quest it really felt like railroading him into something he didnt want to do, like you could tell he was doing his best to unfuck their relationship and help them and then it turned into that genuinely saddening hot mess once Hilda got involved. TBH though Iris leaving her BF was bound to happen if you read her BIO her extreme sexuality and masochism being repressed were a ticking time bomb. Honestly I dont really feel bad for taking iris(She was only a few months away from becoming the village cum dump)but what happened to ol boy was needlessly cruel. I would say though his impact on Yvet and her family is ultimately positive, in a weird way theyre all happier now....that family was on a scary path before ngl.
I wont engage with you for long because I value my time, but you are either naive, dumb or a hypocrite. Not to mention that you like to complain too much.
Mars was raised from birth to be comfortable with situations that wimps and people with fake morals wouldnt be.
Even if he wants to rebel agaisnt the way he was raised, he won't be a bastion of what is right, and if someone wants to fuck him,it is likely that he will do it, even if there are negative consequences.
There is nothing to bitch about.
- Sep 18, 2017
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I've done all Elena content but still can't trigger Gwendelyn after the "eye" option , after reseting her...
before that there were a few scenes with her talking to the hero and talking to baron about investigating MC ... but was stuck
anyone can help me out with what to do?
before that there were a few scenes with her talking to the hero and talking to baron about investigating MC ... but was stuck
anyone can help me out with what to do?
After the baron event, Keep getting discovered while doing elena exhibitionism content at night it Will trigger her next event.
- Sep 18, 2017
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ty ty
thats what I was missing .. I was for sure I had done all the exhibitionism content...was completely wrong ^_^
thanks again
that update was glorious, so much new content and really good one on top of that I hope that the dev continues to work in the same frequency on a new game / sequel once this is finished, thanks for the great game. bad thing I noticed (for me personally) is apperently I missed most of erin scenes since last update already and in general feels like my game is just bugged, if I check choose paths highest one I can choose is 0.4.3 I played all the new content with elena exhibitionism and all that but I think I can't progress erins story? can someone help me out here please, what do I do? once I push Ceciles training bar to max she gets stronger then the ambush scene comes and all that, after she transforms into that smaller version and tells erin he has to fight mars I get a devnote its over for this update and everything gets looped again its so weird
- Feb 26, 2019
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Playing through this and feel like Cecille became extremely unlikable after the point she starts
Kinda feel like later on in the story she loses what made the interactions between her and Mars interesting. She essentially just became horny and bitchy. I get some perspective changing things happen that triggers this, but she really is almost like a whole other character that's reduced to sex and bitching. Maybe it's just me lol.
I think Sera has been pretty consistent this entire time, so has pretty much everyone else from what I've seen. It's just Cecille that's like a whole other personality and has overall became less interesting for it imo. I think what makes Sera more interesting at this point even though she has way less interactions is that the changes with her character feels gradual and doesn't have a sharp turn like Cecille.
My first time going through this game so maybe I just chose wrong options and ended up here. For anyone that has done multiple playthroughs, is she like this in every path?
EDIT: Also, NTR usually doesnt bother me but gyatt I feel bad for the hero, thought it would be possible to hook him up with someone that wasn't a main heroine but he really is there just to suffer endlessly. Actually feel like a villain lol
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Kinda feel like later on in the story she loses what made the interactions between her and Mars interesting. She essentially just became horny and bitchy. I get some perspective changing things happen that triggers this, but she really is almost like a whole other character that's reduced to sex and bitching. Maybe it's just me lol.
I think Sera has been pretty consistent this entire time, so has pretty much everyone else from what I've seen. It's just Cecille that's like a whole other personality and has overall became less interesting for it imo. I think what makes Sera more interesting at this point even though she has way less interactions is that the changes with her character feels gradual and doesn't have a sharp turn like Cecille.
My first time going through this game so maybe I just chose wrong options and ended up here. For anyone that has done multiple playthroughs, is she like this in every path?
EDIT: Also, NTR usually doesnt bother me but gyatt I feel bad for the hero, thought it would be possible to hook him up with someone that wasn't a main heroine but he really is there just to suffer endlessly. Actually feel like a villain lol
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- Jan 13, 2019
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I don't actually disagree with you but I do feel you are imposing our world's morals on their world. I like to chat about stories and you may not remember but I have agreed with you in the past on other threads like CoC 2. I stepped back from CoC 2 as it is too disappointing and took a break from the community. Also just read my TLDR if you can't be bothered to read the whole post I don't blame you if you don't I did a lot of yapping.
So going from a wife beater and a child abuser to a cuck is worse don't know about that but sure if that's your take I am not going to deny you that I disagree personally. Yvet and her family were already messed up before Mars even entered her life so we can agree to disagree here. I did not like Gwen I actually complained about it in an earlier post not even going to disagree with you here. However Gwen is not entirely innocent as a person she allowed a lot of corruption so she isn't without sin. Also remember in my post I said nearly not all, an important point to make. Hilda is a pyscho but her role isn't done yet we need to wait and see what the dev decides to do with them I also mentioned this in an earlier post so I agree with you again. She plays her role in the story as a religious fanatic well and does truly believe she is doing the right thing from her point of view. I think she is a complete nutter without good justification to her extreme behavior but she isn't fully fleshed out as of current patch.
This is on me but I can't even remember the fake priestess so I will take your word for it and agree here. I think Mars is more disgusted with Hilda and the cult and the fact it was a life that would ultimately lead to a dead end as it was a risky career path. I see Mars as a practical pragmatic before anything else. That is my take anyway not saying your wrong on this one. Okay Iris and Lulu was a fucked up conclusion won't disagree there but were things really going to be better without involvement. She was increasingly getting more and more horny it was only a matter of time before she ended up in the Baron's clutches and Lulu dead. While it wasn't moral or good objectively what was done. It was still better than what was going to happen.
Well it is based on player choice I think that is why you can have different interpretations of Mars which is why I have praised the writing. If you do go the feminisation route of Erin and the Elena route all the cruel outcomes do actually wear Mars down but he is still a pragmatic survivalist who will always prioritse himself as number one along with Vi. The bad endings make it clear he values Vi more than anyone else. For example Mars actually does break at the end of Elena's route as he was deliberately being an asshole to her to break her because he felt she was full of shit and that no one can endure that. If you pick the pro Elena option he actually does break down which pisses Cecille off. If you pick the uncaring option since it is player choice your interpretation of Mars is on point.
The cult stuff is bad especially with Hilda manipulating Elena but if anyone can broker peace between the two sides once the trial is over it would be Elena. Pretty much agree with you here as that is mostly if and buts and I don't really see how you can justify their behavior but again the humans are not good people either most of them are genocidal maniacs who don't care for the Demon's plight at all. While Demons you could argue are doing what needs to be done to survive it also doesn't help how the majority of demons come into the world with the castle birthing them to be destroyed by the hero party. I am not saying you are wrong but what would be a better decision if you were placed in their situation? Don't forget about the restrictions of the Goddess trial.
TLDR : I think you mostly took offense to how I phrased things so maybe using the term 'helping' is stretching it a bit I was more thinking along the lines of it was better than the alternative rather than wow Mars is such a nice guy their lives are so much better than before. Not a single person that Mars 'helped' didn't come without personal benefit to him. Characters like Gwen and Hilda I agree but Gwen is not innocent kind of implied she groomed and molested young men and was the enforcer of corruption but didn't like how her route was handled the sex scenes were hot though but the route itself didn't do much for me. As for Hilda I say let the dev cook for now I will judge her properly by story's end.
100% agree with Sera.
Hope that clears up where I was coming from and why I think the NPC routes weren't all non-logical not sure if you played Marika's route but I think it adds to Sera's character well. I think the writing for both Jasmin and Marika was great outside of the kinks/fetishes. Also got any ideas of how it could be better done with characters like Gwen? Personally I don't think Hilda should have been involved at all and it should have just been Mars doing it to get the Noble's guard dog off his back.
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- Jun 23, 2018
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Enter in the console: m = u'Mars'
Replace "Mars with whatever name you want.
- Feb 4, 2024
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- Sep 28, 2017
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The Sera storyline completely upstaged everything else for me.
So well done.
So well done.
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