Actually, Good Girl Gone Bad is a game with a script so big, complex and intelligent that you can play almost as you like. You can play in a pretty realistic way, with the MC just falling into temptation and cheating on her boyfriend with a celebrity she knows by chance, or trying to seduce her best friend´s boyfriend, being a bit more adventurous in sex and participating in a threesome or having lesbian experiences... Or you can go nuts and convert the MC in a total slut that fucks everything that breathes, a drug-dealer, a prostitute, etc. That´s the key of the success of the game, IMO.
- Thread starter Bright Sun Studios
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- Nov 17, 2017
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The player choice is certainly it's biggest strenght, but it's not realistic. And that's what this was about, not about if the game was good in general. The problem is that the main character of GGB is not a blank slate character like the Dragonborn from Skryim for example. She has a predefined personality, life and friends. It's the difference between the Dragonborn and Geralt of Rivia. The Dragonborn is a blank slate character and can do almost anything. He/She is not good, nor bad. Becoming a murderer or thief is completely up to the player. Geralt is a predefined character and thus cannot kill innocent villages because the character himself would never do such a thing. The main character of GGB is much more like Geralt from the Witcher. Yet, in the game you can sort of break her predefined personality to shape her into how you want her to be. It's a great concept and it really works for that game, but you can't claim it's realistic.
The only 'realistic' path in GGB is the good girl path. That is who the charcter is. That's her personality at the start of the game. When playing the game, you'll notice that the good girl path don't change her personality at all. She doesn't become 'more good' like she contantly becomes 'more bad' on the bad paths, she stays who she is. Once again, please don't see this complaint as me saying the game is bad. The concept is great and works for the game, but it can't be described as realistic. This is simply to explain why I won't be doing similar things in my games.
I love player choice. It's one of the best aspects of visual novels, but I personally feel like choices shouldn't break the characters you're writing. All options given should feel like a natural thing to do for the characters. And GGB has major problems there in my opinion. I can defintely appreciate the amount of effort put into the different paths you can take though.
PS: Another issue I had while playing the game is that both paths fuck up the main characters life in my opinion. I can't stand the bad paths because I just don't like girls like that, but even the good girl path fucks her up a bit due to her friend turning into the worst person imaginable (at least in my opinion).
Well, the game is called "Good girl gone bad" not "Good girl stays good"
The game would be pretty boring if she just continues with her boyfriend, studying at the university and hanging out with her close friends, that is the most plausible and realistic path in real life.The MC is not a totally blank slate character, but is not a totally defined character with 8 novels behind as Geralt of Rivia. She's a 20 y.o. naive and inexperienced girl. Her personality is not totally defined and actually can do almost anything. The premise is the MC knowing by chance a handsome celebrity that hits on her. This is, probably, the first time in her life that she has a real opportunity of being bad. For the first time, she faces a true temptation. She can resist, or fall into it. Totally plausible. And since that moment, there are a lot more of temptations in her life that she can resist or fall. There are tens of paths in GGGB. Some of them are totally unrealistic, as the MC becoming a drug-dealer or having sex with her father, but you can avoid them and choose the more plausible ones. It's up to you.
- Nov 17, 2017
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I guess we have different opinions of 'handsome celebrity'. If I remember correctly, the celebrity is some Jersey Shore looking motherfucker who she isn't actually interested in at all. Wasn't it the annoying little sister who was a fan, not the main character? I remember her not being interested at all at the start of the game, but I might misremembering that.Well, the game is called "Good girl gone bad" not "Good girl stays good"
The MC is not a totally blank slate character, but is not a totally defined character with 8 novels behind as Geralt of Rivia. She's a 20 y.o. naive and inexperienced girl. Her personality is not totally defined and actually can do almost anything. The premise is the MC knowing by chance a handsome celebrity that hits on her. This is, probably, the first time in her life that she has a real opportunity of being bad. For the first time, she faces a true temptation. She can resist, or fall into it. Totally plausible. And since that moment, there are a lot more of temptations in her life that she can resist or fall. There are tens of paths in GGGB. Some of them are totally unrealistic, as the MC becoming a drug-dealer or having sex with her father, but you can avoid them and choose the more plausible ones. It's up to you.
Also, if you think the game is good because you have so many choices but you also say that 50% of those choices (the 'good girl' choices) are boring and lead to uninteresting events, the game also apparently has a writing issue there. I dont know, but that sounds like bad writing to me. Keep in mind that I'm not saying the game has bad writing, but you are the one who claims the good-girl path is boring. And like I said, this still points to the good-girl path being her 'default' personality, so if are a heavy roleplayer like me, it feels wrong to go agains that because it doesn't feel like something she'd do. Sure, she does not have an entire book series dedicated to her, but she has enough predefined personality to make an accurate judgement about what she'd do and who she'd try to stay away from. If she'd been written as a character repressed by her parents who suddenly was allowed to go while, the idea of suddenly changing personalities so drastically and getting tattoos and shit would feel more realistic to me. But in the current context of the story, I can't help but feel the bad-path choices are forcing the MC to act like someone who she isn't. Also, being tempted to cheat or do some naughty stuff in this game also seems to mean you change to wanting tattoos and black eyeliner and shit in a day or 2 after you're first bad girl experience to get that bad girl look after you've decided you're going to change your entire personality and appearance in a few days. Also not the most realistic thing to do, but I don't want to keep complaining about those things. I guess the changes themselves aren't that unrealistic, it's more the insane speed at which they happen. That can't really be helped though with the concept of the game as you'd need constant time jumps to make it feel remotely realistic.
Like I mentioned before, the personality change of the main character isn't even the only thing that feels unrealistic to me. On the good-girl path, her best friend that (if I remember correctly) she's been super close to for years makes a 100% personality change and turns on the main character after being called out for some bad choices she made that she definitely deserved to be called out for. Does it make for some interesting, if very uncomfortable and sad storytelling? It defintely does. Is it realistic? Hell nah. That doesn't mean it's an issue for every player, but it was an issue for me. Also, I'm can't forgive the game for forces so many unpleasant characters on me even if I tried my best to be good. GGB just isn't really the game for me I suppose, especially after the bad-paths got the focus after the dev discovered those were more popular. Now it seems to have gone from decent choices between being loyal and slutty to how rediculous can we make the characters and what stupid shit can we make them do. Sure you can ignore the stuff you don't like, but that doesn't mean the game deserves that get a free pass because of it.
And still, there is a difference between finding it fun to 'corrupt' the main character into becoming a whore and that actually being realistic. By saying that it isn't realistic, I'm not saying it can't be enjoyed. I don't personally enjoy it, but I understand that some people love the game because of it. The game has started to focus too much on the corruption theme and that just isn't for me. And because of that GGB is one of the games I played and finished a while ago and decided that I wouldn't be going back to, despite enjoying certain parts of it. Not every game works for everyone, and that's okay
- Apr 12, 2017
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I suppose I could have also added, I worked for quite a few years for a software development company creating large and small scale products for corporate clients. I've seen first hand through usability studies, tech support logs, and filed bug reports exactly how much trouble a seemingly nit-picky issue can cause. And you aren't alone, even when people are paid to make the changes suggested there is often grumbling when the suggestion is something as simple as a single word change. But I've also seen that single word change or minor tweak that no user even mentioned suddenly raise users' ratings of the software by anywhere from 10-40%.
I can't guarantee that the specific points I named will be problems. I simply pointed out points that I felt had negative potential. Once again, I apologize if it came off as a needlessly picky attack. It wasn't intended as such, and it's a curse of the training.
I can't guarantee that the specific points I named will be problems. I simply pointed out points that I felt had negative potential. Once again, I apologize if it came off as a needlessly picky attack. It wasn't intended as such, and it's a curse of the training.
- Nov 17, 2017
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I guess I appreciate your feedback then. But this is one example where it would be useful to announce your intentions when giving feedback before posting the issues you had with the game. Not everyone on this website knows what they're talking about and plenty of people complain about stuff they know nothing about. It can be hard to see through those people and find the people who are genuinely trying to improve the game.
Without annouching your intentions, I can only judge your feedback by the arguments you give and I admit I might dismiss some feedback too quickly if it isn't argued properly (because that usually means that the feedback is just coming from someone who just likes to complain or who wants every game to be specifically made to tailor to his needs and wants, which happens surprisingly often).
This is just an industry where it's impossible to listen to and appease every single commenter. That's something I can't get around. I've also found plenty of people who are genuinely willing to help improve the game, but it can be hard to judge a person simply by a single comment they made. So I apologize if I come off as a bit too dismissive of your feedback, that wasn't my intention
(Also, should you be interested in helping improve the game, I'd ask you to consider joining the bug testing Discord channel I've created for my games, but that's up to you)
- Nov 17, 2017
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Hmm, okay. Then I must have done something wrong while building the android version. Sorry about that, I'll fix it for the next version of the game. Which means that masturbating with your cucumber will have to wait until version 0.3 I'm afraid
Well, the very first decision you have to make in GGGB is if that Jersey Shore celebrity is "hot" or not for the MC. It is realistic that the MC knows a Jersey Shore celebrity by chance and he hits on her. It would not be realistic the MC meets, I don´t know, Brad Pitt, and hits on her. The second one is if the MC is really in love with her boyfriend or she's thinking in finding someone better. The third one, if she's actually so close to her best girlfriend, or not.
I have never said that "the good girl path" is boring. I say that in real life, the most plausible path would be the MC not even knowing a celebrity and staying in college with her boyfriend and her friends. But that would not be a game at all. In a game, something must happen.
As I have already said, she's a young, naive and inexperienced girl. She has been a good girl because she actually has not had the opportunity of being bad in her life. At the moment of the start of the game, the parents of the girl are going to divorce and the mother goes away from home, the father is unemployed and can't pay for her scholarship, and her boyfriend is about to go to another country for several months. It's a point of inflexion in her life that can psychologically destabilize a young girl - or boy - and make her prone to change her behaviour and start neglecting their studies for partying, consuming drugs, developing an obsession with social media and being promiscuous. It happens every day. Over all if there are some bad influences in her life, as her friend Jessica (I think that's her name) and a bunch of frivolous Jersey Shore celebrities. It's called social pressure. Girls that make porn, escorts, wannabe celebrities and wannabe social media influencers, etc. did not were born that way. Most of them were "good girls" (and boys). I recomend you this documental about it:
I find the script of GGGB way more professional than any other script in a game of this kind. It starts with a very solid and realistic premise that develops in some unrealistic paths that can be avoided if you prefer stay close to reality. At least (I´m sorry, but I have to say it), the author doesn't have to use totally unrealistic and artificial resources as a genetic mutation that makes people unable to resists their sexual urgences and obliges them to attend to a special school for sexual freaks.
I have never said that "the good girl path" is boring. I say that in real life, the most plausible path would be the MC not even knowing a celebrity and staying in college with her boyfriend and her friends. But that would not be a game at all. In a game, something must happen.
As I have already said, she's a young, naive and inexperienced girl. She has been a good girl because she actually has not had the opportunity of being bad in her life. At the moment of the start of the game, the parents of the girl are going to divorce and the mother goes away from home, the father is unemployed and can't pay for her scholarship, and her boyfriend is about to go to another country for several months. It's a point of inflexion in her life that can psychologically destabilize a young girl - or boy - and make her prone to change her behaviour and start neglecting their studies for partying, consuming drugs, developing an obsession with social media and being promiscuous. It happens every day. Over all if there are some bad influences in her life, as her friend Jessica (I think that's her name) and a bunch of frivolous Jersey Shore celebrities. It's called social pressure. Girls that make porn, escorts, wannabe celebrities and wannabe social media influencers, etc. did not were born that way. Most of them were "good girls" (and boys). I recomend you this documental about it:
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I find the script of GGGB way more professional than any other script in a game of this kind. It starts with a very solid and realistic premise that develops in some unrealistic paths that can be avoided if you prefer stay close to reality. At least (I´m sorry, but I have to say it), the author doesn't have to use totally unrealistic and artificial resources as a genetic mutation that makes people unable to resists their sexual urgences and obliges them to attend to a special school for sexual freaks.
With out defending the jersey shore i do agree with you on it being realistic. You ahve a choice of every single character you interact with whether or not you want to fuck them. So if you think jack is a douche than dont fuck him. Therw are plebty of of people in game to choose from. I totally disagree that the good girl path is boring though it has plenty of other options. On a side note to the creator of hscs. If it was total realism and vanilla sex that people wanted from these games then why wouldnt we just keep living out our lives the same way we are. I enjoy gggb because its like playing a movie that you decide the outcome of this girls life the choices that are prwsented are of someone who is conflicted to continue to live their mundane boring life or add more excitement to it and get carried away. And the wardrobe change is like 3 or 4 weeks after you start becoming bad if there is anything o know about women is the slightest change in there life they will make drastic changes to there wardrobe/ style. Again hscs is a good game but maybe this is something to consider and and maybe start letting go of your hang ups about putting cheating into the game.
- Nov 17, 2017
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I guess I must have misunderstood what I thought you said about the good path being boring, so thanks for your clarification. But... you seem to be completely misunderstanding my point.
First of all, I think that in ever post I made about this I've tried to make clear that the in my opinion unrealistic tone of certain choices you can make in the game do NOT make it a bad game. In the original post, I was only thinking about wanting reaslism in my own games, so that's why I said the MC of HSCS can't become a total whore through player choices, because as the writer of the game I don't think she realistically has it in her.
I still think GGB has some unrealistic elements, but I've also been very clear about stating that it's a good game. What's important to note is the difference between disliking a game and thinking it's bad. I dislike the game a bit, but still think it's a good game. The effort put into it is very high and the quality of the game overal is very good. That doesn't mean I have to personally like it though. I also completely agree with you that script of the game is amazing and the amount of real player choices in there is fantastic. But I think I still get to call some of the choices out as being unrealistic in my opinion. Also, just because I think some choices and character personality changes are unrealistic, doesn't mean I don't think they should have been included. The game is made better by its choices, I will readily admit that. But I can still say I find certain choices not realistic for the way the main character acts and thinks at the start of the game. That's the issue with having a character with a personality and whose thoughts you can read. You know her opinion about certain things and then making a choice that goes against those opinons does feel a bit unrealistic to me, even if those choices can shape the game to more like how a player would want the story to go
Let's get back to the Jersey Shore dude for example. Yes, it's a very good player choices. But it's still not a realistic one. You say the MC has it in her to stay loyal to her boyfriend or be tempted by him. That's true to a certain extend, but going with the Jersey Shore dude still feel too unrealistic to me because in the intro scene of the game where the Jersey Shore dude is introduced on TV, she shows absolutely no interest in him. Those are her 'cannon' (so to say) thoughts about him. Sure, when meeting him it is not unrealistic to eventually grow to like him. But if I remember correctly the player is immediately offered the choice to suck his dick right there in the gym upon first meeting him. That's unrealistic in my opinion (ONCE AGAIN UNREALISTIC DOES NOT MEAN BAD). And if you don't do it, you friend immediately does it. And about them being good friends or not and that being up to the player... once again the game establishes this for you, but you can decide to break that if you want. It is very clear they are very good friends at the start. They hang out together, they go to the gym together, etc. They aren't just casual friends who see each other once a month.
Once again, these are just my own issues that I'm having with the game. As a developer I can appreciate the quality of the game, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
And for the last part about my own game, you should never hesitate to mention things about my games you have issues with. I can take it. I understand you might find it unrealistic because such a mutation does not exist. But all other sexual actions taken after that are more realistic because of it (at least in my opinion). It's like with the fantasy genre: Yes, such things don't exist. But fantasy can still be realistic. But I get that you might have issues with the concept of Lilium Academy (which does not force anyone to attend it, by the way. I should have been a little bit clearer about that I suppose. Students are parents all choose to go there).
I feel like GGB is one of your favorite games and is very close to your heart because of it, but please don't feel offended by me not liking it as much as you do. My complaints are not there to persuade you the game is bad, but simply to allow me to explain why I don't like it as much as you do. It's good to see other perspectives once in a while, right?
- Nov 17, 2017
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See the comment I made above this one.
Once again: Please understand the difference between disliking something in a game and thinking that the game is bad. It's great that you can fuck whoever you want, but that doesn't make it realistic. I've already explained why I think it's not realistic and I won't go over that again.
I'm just a sucker for realism. To me a scene is much hotter if I think it's realistically possible for them to do what they're doing. If they have clear motivations to do it. Asking myself why the hell the characters are fucking is a big turn off for me. And that happened just a bit too often for me in GGGB. If you don't feel the same, that's fine. I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy GGGB. You should, it's a good game. It's just not for me and I'm trying to explain why not every single person likes it. Not everyone has to agree with you on the things you like. There is a whole list of games I personally don't like that a very popular
Not every game works very every person. Tones, themes, characters, sexual fetishes. All are different between different games. So no, I won't 'consider it' and let go of my issues with cheating. I don't feel comfortable writing it. I'm not okay with having it in my games and nothing is going to change that. Cheating is a fundamental awful thing to do and I don't have the heart to put my own characters through it. I also don't feel like it adds anything to my games. My games always go for a happy tone and getting called out for cheating and break up with your girlfriend/boyfriend don't go with that.
Also, here's a little secret: Writing for a fetish you completely don't understand (like a cheating fetish in my case) can have very bad results. I stay away from it
This whole GGGB thing has gotten a bit out of hand though. I simply used that game as an example of a game where major personality changes lead to, in my opinion, some unrealistic scenarios for how the character was originally written. I didn't mean to imply it was a bad game, but it certainly isn't one. That doesn't mean I'm going to change my mind about disliking it though
I´m not a fanboy of GGGB and I don´t feel offended by you not liking it. Actually, I have criticised a lot some aspects of this game in its thread, like certain monotony in the art and the recurrent use of the same images. But I think your complains about the lack of reality in the game are unfair, since there are dozens (probably more than a hundred) of combinations and situations in the game and you can choose to follow a perfectly realistic path if you like. Anyway, this thread is about your game, so I agree this has gone too far.
About you game, well, it´s common the use of "tricks" in the scripts to circumvent the limitations of reality. Hypnosis and mind control, behavior-altering drugs, magic, alternative realities, etc. Just a normal academy with regular teenagers with raging hormones would be a better choice for this game, IMO, but I understand that it would be more difficult to justify the acts of lewd of the game, so the mutation and the special academy are "tricks" that make things easier. Well, those "tricks" are used even by professional writers. It's OK to use them. But I think a script is better if it doesn´t need that kind of things.
About you game, well, it´s common the use of "tricks" in the scripts to circumvent the limitations of reality. Hypnosis and mind control, behavior-altering drugs, magic, alternative realities, etc. Just a normal academy with regular teenagers with raging hormones would be a better choice for this game, IMO, but I understand that it would be more difficult to justify the acts of lewd of the game, so the mutation and the special academy are "tricks" that make things easier. Well, those "tricks" are used even by professional writers. It's OK to use them. But I think a script is better if it doesn´t need that kind of things.
- Nov 17, 2017
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I can see why you think my complaints about GGGB are unfair, and that's a fine opinion to have. But in my opinion if there is even a single thing in the game that feels way too unrealistic to me, even if it can be avoided, it deserves to be pointed out. Just because you can play the game in a realistic way doesn't mean the game doesn't have issues with realism. Sometimes unrealism can be a good thing for a game, but that doesn't make it realistic. It's not bad to included it, but it's just unrealistic.
But I understand that realism isn't something everyone wants in an adult game and that it's a very subjective thing, so I think both our stand points can be seen as correct in this case.
As for HSCS, it once again comes down to realism in my opinion. Sure, it's a 'trick' to have a fake reason for them being more sexually active than usual, but that still helps the realism in my opinion. As a reader you might question that mutation itself, but you then question the sexual activities much less. Take your example of just a regular school for example. Everyone has been to high school. Every high school has hormone filled teenagers in it. But no high school would allow such casual sexual activity in a realistic sense. If you just ignored the Lilium muation for a second, wouldn't you start to question why teachers and parents aren't against the behavior of the students? Wouldn't you always be scared of being caught and punished? Also, that wouldn't allow for the, in my opinion, interesting setup of none of the students knowing anyone at the school. It's similar to a story in which the main character is moving to a new town and has to deal with getting new friends, only more extreme. Everyone has to get new friends and that allows for some interesting stories. This could obviously also be done by having Lilium Academy simply be a random new school, but I think it works a little better in this context.
And one final thing about a normal high school is that... normal high school are such an overused setting. I think a school should have something interesting to it to make players interested in the events of the story. The main story and open sexuality of Michelle for example would feel out of place in a regular high school and I think players might question why they aren't afraid to openly discuss dildo's, vibrators and sleeping with people. I'm not saying it's the perfect setup, but I think it's a good one for the tone and story I had in mind for this game. But if you want to see Lilium Academy as a normal high school, that's fine. The game even works to a certain extend without the mutation I think since no characters have gone completely crazy yet. The mutation simply gives everyone the libido of someone with a very high (but still realistic) sex drive. Now we just have a reason why they are all in the same place together instead of questioning why everyone you meet has a high libido. For some people this might not even seem like an issue as high sex drives in both men and women is so common in adult stories, but I still like having a justification in my games. It just makes them that little bit more grounded in my opinion
Some people (like me) like plausible characters, situations and scenes, and other people prefer unrealistic ones. If a game allows the two kinds of players to choose which type of paths they are going to follow, that's a strength of the script, not something to criticise.
And about your game, I agree. If the MC and the others were normal teenagers, the process of "corruption" of the characters would need to be way more slow, your would need to think a plausible justification for it, there would be a conflict between the allowed social uses in a academic center and the sexual behaviour of the characters and you would have to think how they could hide it... Yes, it would be hard. But the "trick" of the mutation and the special academy makes everything easy.
The teacher of biology experimenting with behavior-altering drugs and giving them to the students with the food or the water, some kind of mind-controlling superpower, or the finding of a magic book with spells would have done the trick of rising the libido of the characters too. Actually, there are hundreds of games like that. Some of them really successful, by the way.
And about your game, I agree. If the MC and the others were normal teenagers, the process of "corruption" of the characters would need to be way more slow, your would need to think a plausible justification for it, there would be a conflict between the allowed social uses in a academic center and the sexual behaviour of the characters and you would have to think how they could hide it... Yes, it would be hard. But the "trick" of the mutation and the special academy makes everything easy.
The teacher of biology experimenting with behavior-altering drugs and giving them to the students with the food or the water, some kind of mind-controlling superpower, or the finding of a magic book with spells would have done the trick of rising the libido of the characters too. Actually, there are hundreds of games like that. Some of them really successful, by the way.
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The results are in, people. Here they are: The next update of HSCS will focus on expanding Ella's character and romance (including new sex scenes), main story, the pregnancy system and new fetishes for the player to unlock in the game (pregnancy, creampie, foreplay and size).
I hope you're all looking forward to the next chapter of High School Crush Simulator, which will be released July 12th.
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