Ren'Py Holiday Island [v0.5.0.1] [darkhound1]

[AXC2055]

It's the poison of live service. When you become focused on the dopamine rush of periodic updates, some people forget to actually enjoy the game for what it is instead of enjoying the novelty of [NEW UPDATE].

 

[Snowsexxx32]

I'd say that while the volume of content in any given update has varied, I'd agree with SiJa that the quality has definitely improved. It's getting more difficult to notice though, as the old scenes are getting remade (which appears to also be the case here). Also worth noting, at the beginning we didn't see any animations either.

This could be different if it were a full time project, but for a side gig, I've learned to enjoy and look forward to seeing the updates in this thread every 6-9 months.

 

[FirminoisGod]

Holiday Island is one of the best VNs on this website. I'll die on that hill. I don't mind waiting for an update. The content already in the game has created a very loyal fanbase (including myself). Thisi is the first AVN I've ever played and it holds a spot in my heart.

 

[darkhound1]

Some info about using AI to create videos for in game use. I've been working on that too for a couple of months already. Even before it started here.
It can help, but it's not a quick process if you want good results. You have to create a lot of videos until you get some where the quality is acceptable for what I want to use in the game.
Basically you're facing the following problems:

• Character inconsistencies or changes in the video. This can be the face, the clothes, the breasts size or other things like the background
• Extreme changes in lighting that are noticeable so that the video is not useable
• If the character is too small, most of the time that's the case when you show all of it, including legs, the face becomes a mess.
• You can use sprites, but it's a lenghty process and not always perfect. It speeds up video creation and you will not have the problem that the character is too small. But creating a consistent alpha channel is never perfect.
• Video resolution. You cannot create videos in full HD (or 2560x1440) that have a reasonable length. So you always have to upscale them. This isn't a problem as long as there is movement. But if you want to use single frames and use still images from the video it becomes a noticeable problem
• Not everything can be animated. One character works well enough as long as the performed action is something widely used and seen. So dancing, breats juggling, groping, drinking, even undressing works okay. But sex scenes are a different matter. Mostly it doesn't work at all or at least not well enough to be useable. Also specific things like climbing a ladder to leave the pool don't work well.
• Often you want to have videos that can be looped. Defining start and end frame for a video will lead to bad results most of the time. You can try to play it backwards. But this doesn't always work or is easy either if you don't want it to be very noticeable.
• And another not really AI related problem. Too many videos will blow up the game file size, making it very hard to use on android devices.

To give you an idea about the involved steps in creating a loopable sprite video.

1. Create a render that works as a base. Character without a bakcground. Leave enough space on all sides to allow for movement.
2. Create the animation/video using AI with whatever action you want to see. E.g. dancing. That's 20 or 30 and you pick the best.
3. Remove the background, create alpha channels for each frame of the video
4. Remove hue and color shifts on all images
5. Upscale the image, it might be necessary to improve the face slightly
6. Overlay the sprite video on a background to save space (alternatively you can create a side by side sprite + alpha video) to use in renpy directly

Here is an example, downscaled to 1280x720
If you look closely, you can see that the alpha channel around the hair isn't perfect.
Also the fingernails on her right hand are changing color, giving them a flickering effect.
Now these are 107 single frames looped. Doing a manual correction will take far too much time.
So if you want to use it, that's how it would look in game.
Zoom, etc. can be added with the renpy engine.
View attachment sprite_00001.mp4

 

[foxi.]

you are right it's not perfect... but honestly?! there are OTHER BIG THINGS to focus on besides the background
wouldn't have noticed if you didn't tell ...

that said, looking forward to the next update already

Here is an example, downscaled to 1280x720
If you look closely, you can see that the alpha channel around the hair isn't perfect.
Also the fingernails on her right hand are changing color, giving them a flickering effect.
Now these are 107 single frames looped. Doing a manual correction will take far too much time.
So if you want to use it, that's how it would look in game.
Zoom, etc. can be added with the renpy engine.
View attachment 5462677

 

[Alexus87]

you are right it's not perfect... but honestly?! there are OTHER BIG THINGS to focus on besides the background
wouldn't have noticed if you didn't tell ...

that said, looking forward to the next update already

Not gonna lie, but I did not notice anything with the fingernails and hair. The eyes were drawn to something else than that, for some reason.

That said, I think the animation loop is pretty good overall. I think the "hyper focus" to hair and fingernail details is something that mainly the developer will notice, as he/she is woking on one scene for a x-amount of time.
For us regular users, we may not see it there and then.

As allways, love your work Darkhound, and also great to see signs of life from you
Can't wait to finally have some Daniella content!

 

[V0idSeeker]

Some info about using AI to create videos for in game use. I've been working on that too for a couple of months already. Even before it started here.
It can help, but it's not a quick process if you want good results. You have to create a lot of videos until you get some where the quality is acceptable for what I want to use in the game.
Basically you're facing the following problems:

• Character inconsistencies or changes in the video. This can be the face, the clothes, the breasts size or other things like the background
• Extreme changes in lighting that are noticeable so that the video is not useable
• If the character is too small, most of the time that's the case when you show all of it, including legs, the face becomes a mess.
• You can use sprites, but it's a lenghty process and not always perfect. It speeds up video creation and you will not have the problem that the character is too small. But creating a consistent alpha channel is never perfect.
• Video resolution. You cannot create videos in full HD (or 2560x1440) that have a reasonable length. So you always have to upscale them. This isn't a problem as long as there is movement. But if you want to use single frames and use still images from the video it becomes a noticeable problem
• Not everything can be animated. One character works well enough as long as the performed action is something widely used and seen. So dancing, breats juggling, groping, drinking, even undressing works okay. But sex scenes are a different matter. Mostly it doesn't work at all or at least not well enough to be useable. Also specific things like climbing a ladder to leave the pool don't work well.
• Often you want to have videos that can be looped. Defining start and end frame for a video will lead to bad results most of the time. You can try to play it backwards. But this doesn't always work or is easy either if you don't want it to be very noticeable.
• And another not really AI related problem. Too many videos will blow up the game file size, making it very hard to use on android devices.

To give you an idea about the involved steps in creating a loopable sprite video.

1. Create a render that works as a base. Character without a bakcground. Leave enough space on all sides to allow for movement.
2. Create the animation/video using AI with whatever action you want to see. E.g. dancing. That's 20 or 30 and you pick the best.
3. Remove the background, create alpha channels for each frame of the video
4. Remove hue and color shifts on all images
5. Upscale the image, it might be necessary to improve the face slightly
6. Overlay the sprite video on a background to save space (alternatively you can create a side by side sprite + alpha video) to use in renpy directly

Here is an example, downscaled to 1280x720
If you look closely, you can see that the alpha channel around the hair isn't perfect.
Also the fingernails on her right hand are changing color, giving them a flickering effect.
Now these are 107 single frames looped. Doing a manual correction will take far too much time.
So if you want to use it, that's how it would look in game.
Zoom, etc. can be added with the renpy engine.
View attachment 5462677

Best implementation of AI animation I've seen thus far. Impressive.

 

[AXC2055]

I'm not saying AI can't be good (that shot of Yvette is very good), but it has a pretty big problem with complexity and consistency. That Yvette origin comic from a little while ago is a good example of that. Great comic, but I couldn't have been the only person who noticed Yvette's blouse changed styles in almost every panel...

 

[Luque4141]

Is there any way to play on iPhone because the app I use isn't working?

 

[Ascetic]

Some info about using AI to create videos for in game use. I've been working on that too for a couple of months already. Even before it started here.
It can help, but it's not a quick process if you want good results. You have to create a lot of videos until you get some where the quality is acceptable for what I want to use in the game.
Basically you're facing the following problems:

• Character inconsistencies or changes in the video. This can be the face, the clothes, the breasts size or other things like the background
• Extreme changes in lighting that are noticeable so that the video is not useable
• If the character is too small, most of the time that's the case when you show all of it, including legs, the face becomes a mess.
• You can use sprites, but it's a lenghty process and not always perfect. It speeds up video creation and you will not have the problem that the character is too small. But creating a consistent alpha channel is never perfect.
• Video resolution. You cannot create videos in full HD (or 2560x1440) that have a reasonable length. So you always have to upscale them. This isn't a problem as long as there is movement. But if you want to use single frames and use still images from the video it becomes a noticeable problem
• Not everything can be animated. One character works well enough as long as the performed action is something widely used and seen. So dancing, breats juggling, groping, drinking, even undressing works okay. But sex scenes are a different matter. Mostly it doesn't work at all or at least not well enough to be useable. Also specific things like climbing a ladder to leave the pool don't work well.
• Often you want to have videos that can be looped. Defining start and end frame for a video will lead to bad results most of the time. You can try to play it backwards. But this doesn't always work or is easy either if you don't want it to be very noticeable.
• And another not really AI related problem. Too many videos will blow up the game file size, making it very hard to use on android devices.

To give you an idea about the involved steps in creating a loopable sprite video.

1. Create a render that works as a base. Character without a bakcground. Leave enough space on all sides to allow for movement.
2. Create the animation/video using AI with whatever action you want to see. E.g. dancing. That's 20 or 30 and you pick the best.
3. Remove the background, create alpha channels for each frame of the video
4. Remove hue and color shifts on all images
5. Upscale the image, it might be necessary to improve the face slightly
6. Overlay the sprite video on a background to save space (alternatively you can create a side by side sprite + alpha video) to use in renpy directly

Here is an example, downscaled to 1280x720
If you look closely, you can see that the alpha channel around the hair isn't perfect.
Also the fingernails on her right hand are changing color, giving them a flickering effect.
Now these are 107 single frames looped. Doing a manual correction will take far too much time.
So if you want to use it, that's how it would look in game.
Zoom, etc. can be added with the renpy engine.
View attachment 5462677

Aaaah the discussion I've feared for quite a while has entered the discourse...

I'll say right away that I basically agree with everything in your post, and probably share your esthetical sensibilities about AI in general, but will add this: we are in the minority.

I bet you a LOT of people will find this example fantastic and very worthwhile even with all the imperfections... Tastes are changing, for the worse in my humble opinion, but that's where the world is going.

 

[AXC2055]

Not too sure about the "tastes are changing" bit, though. I think the novelty is already wearing off.

 

[MarsUltor]

Some info about using AI to create videos for in game use. I've been working on that too for a couple of months already. Even before it started here.
It can help, but it's not a quick process if you want good results. You have to create a lot of videos until you get some where the quality is acceptable for what I want to use in the game.
Basically you're facing the following problems:

• Character inconsistencies or changes in the video. This can be the face, the clothes, the breasts size or other things like the background
• Extreme changes in lighting that are noticeable so that the video is not useable
• If the character is too small, most of the time that's the case when you show all of it, including legs, the face becomes a mess.
• You can use sprites, but it's a lenghty process and not always perfect. It speeds up video creation and you will not have the problem that the character is too small. But creating a consistent alpha channel is never perfect.
• Video resolution. You cannot create videos in full HD (or 2560x1440) that have a reasonable length. So you always have to upscale them. This isn't a problem as long as there is movement. But if you want to use single frames and use still images from the video it becomes a noticeable problem
• Not everything can be animated. One character works well enough as long as the performed action is something widely used and seen. So dancing, breats juggling, groping, drinking, even undressing works okay. But sex scenes are a different matter. Mostly it doesn't work at all or at least not well enough to be useable. Also specific things like climbing a ladder to leave the pool don't work well.
• Often you want to have videos that can be looped. Defining start and end frame for a video will lead to bad results most of the time. You can try to play it backwards. But this doesn't always work or is easy either if you don't want it to be very noticeable.
• And another not really AI related problem. Too many videos will blow up the game file size, making it very hard to use on android devices.

To give you an idea about the involved steps in creating a loopable sprite video.

1. Create a render that works as a base. Character without a bakcground. Leave enough space on all sides to allow for movement.
2. Create the animation/video using AI with whatever action you want to see. E.g. dancing. That's 20 or 30 and you pick the best.
3. Remove the background, create alpha channels for each frame of the video
4. Remove hue and color shifts on all images
5. Upscale the image, it might be necessary to improve the face slightly
6. Overlay the sprite video on a background to save space (alternatively you can create a side by side sprite + alpha video) to use in renpy directly

Here is an example, downscaled to 1280x720
If you look closely, you can see that the alpha channel around the hair isn't perfect.
Also the fingernails on her right hand are changing color, giving them a flickering effect.
Now these are 107 single frames looped. Doing a manual correction will take far too much time.
So if you want to use it, that's how it would look in game.
Zoom, etc. can be added with the renpy engine.
View attachment 5462677

The process you described for producing AI enhanced animation clips is crazy, Darkhound! Producing a couple of video clips that way is one thing, but when you start talking about 20, 30, 40+... well, that has to become very daunting, very quickly.

The example you posted is remarkable, as is your skill in producing it, but the issues you mentioned make the difference between a remarkable clip and a perfect or near-perfect one. I suspect that the "flickering fingernails" is part of AI's weakness (generally speaking) with animating hand movements well. The overall movement was generally really smooth, except for a couple of instances of barely-perceptible choppiness.

The elephant in the room regarding AI video clips is the Uncanny Valley. Almost all AI videos are somewhere in the Uncanny Valley due to the cumulative effect of minor (and occasionally not so minor) imperfections that make the video clips at least slightly less than realistic. I would say that your example here is on the realistic edge of the Uncanny Valley, meaning that it is very realistic... just not quite completely so. OTOH, I think the Uncanny Valley effect with regard to AI is becoming less noticeable to most people because they are now exposed to so much "AI slop" that they're becoming desensitized to it.

 

[AXC2055]

Maybe, but I think that has more to do with the fact that it really isn't all that cool anymore. It's kinda like photorealistic graphics or extremely advanced CGI. Ok, 10 years ago I would have been impressed...but now that the novelty and cool factor has worn off, I actually have become more sensitive to all those times people use graphics and cool tech to cover for lack of soul, thought, or creativity. I might have been impressed by using AI to make animations for a VN a year or two ago, but at this point it's really nothing to be amazed by. Yeah, an AI generated a really cute video of Yvette dancing. An animator could have done the same thing. It's another tool, not a novelty. It doesn't matter if Darkhound makes all the animations himself, asks someone to help him, or uses an AI to do it, if it means a reduction in quality he doesn't like, bloat in the game files, and an unmanageable increase in workload for too little benefit.

 

[AXC2055]

The question, as always, is whether Darkhound is willing to sacrifice what hair he has left to futz around with AI algorithms that inherently can't appreciate consistency or complexity. If you've ever played a game with extreme randomization systems thrown in that require you to spend way too much time grinding in the hopes of rolling that 0.1% chance of getting exactly the thing you want and found that experience excruciating, well, that's exactly what it's like working with AI.

 

[Snowsexxx32]

The question, as always, is whether Darkhound is willing to sacrifice what hair he has left to futz around with AI algorithms that inherently can't appreciate consistency or complexity. If you've ever played a game with extreme randomization systems thrown in that require you to spend way too much time grinding in the hopes of rolling that 0.1% chance of getting exactly the thing you want and found that experience excruciating, well, that's exactly what it's like working with AI.

Sometimes the answer is to just wait and the problem will solve itself. If Darkhound is like me, they'll be tinkering with the tech anyway. Early last year I was still able to make better loops than any video model at the time, but video models are getting better pretty fast, and I wouldn't make the same claim today.

My old process was generating individual images (probably 20-40 per frame) and culling them down to the best ones, then stitching them together and smoothing them out using flowframes. This works with far fewer frames than you'd expect, as you the 'fake frames' work pretty well so long as you have good keyframes as well as one good intermediate/tween/delta frame for most movements. The advantage here is that I'd only need to cull through the generated keyframes for artifacts or other AI imagegen issues.

Dances are particularly hard though, as there are often multiple movements that are almost easier to handle in 3d posing than frame by frame. My alternate workflow was to create an animation in Daz using default models with single color textures, then img2img processing each frame with a specific model and character loras.

For cleaning up the example, instead of correcting the errant nail color, it may be possible to delete those frames and re-create them using flowframes or a similar process. There's a related trick where you can take a video, create intermediate frames, then take the created frames only and repeat the process. You now have a new frame that matches the timing and space of the original frames, and may be able to replace errant frames with them.

Now I'm tempted to see if I can rework part of my Yvette BeatBanger mod/level with this dance, but that's for the fan art thread.

 

[Kiskocya]

I was changing the picture frames in my room, and Yumiko suggested I should let you guess who

So here it is

Spoiler

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[Luque4141]

Is there any way to play on iPhone because the app I use isn't working?

 

[Bharath Sam]

Hy i cant complete ivy gym scene can any one help..

 

[Bantry]

Hy i cant complete ivy gym scene can any one help..

Have you tried the Guide? It's linked on the first page of this thread.

 

[bloren]

AI? pls no.