How smart do you like your soon-to-be corrupted girls in games?

[Diconica]

You don't need to be a genius to write about intelligent characters. IQ is also just one facet of intelligence. Intelligent or high IQ people can still make retarded decisions that screw everything. They can have character flaws like laziness, social, or emotional issues that hamper their success in whatever endeavor.

Still, what you are saying does have some truth to it. An absolutely basic writer that fails to contemplate or even recognize complex issues would have a hard time coming up with scenarios that actually display a character's intelligence. What's needed is not some "I have a high IQ, I am smart" writer, but basically just someone that doesn't suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect. At that point, a little bit of research can help with writing any type of character. Do you think the writers of Good Will Hunting or A Beautiful Mind, were anywhere near as intelligent as the characters they were writing about?

Neither of those stories / movies actually attempted to show case the intelligent thought process of the main character. They did as I suggested and showed the view from out side. Neither show tried to depict how their thought pattern worked when solving any of the problems. Instead they showed them effectively turning in the result. They did it from the observers view.
You didn't see internal dialog on the problem solving.

They also did a crap load of research again something I suggested above.

Seems your two examples tend to prove my point.

Intelligence is the ability to learn. There are no other facets to it. Mistakes are part of being human. That said smart people tend to have issues in other ways from less intelligent people.
A very smart person may fail to teach the basics of something for expects everyone to know it. They also fail to see the world from the less intelligent person's view point. They get over focused on issues and number of other flaws.
The lower intelligent person simply fails because they don't know how to proceed or can't grasp the larger picture.
I've seen scientist run their bicycles into the fence at LLNL because they were focused on the project they were working on rather than paying attention to were they are headed. They often worry to much about making a mistake thus fail to complete something like a test on time. Think of it like OCD.

The more someone knows the more they tend to realize how little they know in the grand scheme of things. People with little knowledge and intelligence have nothing to really base their lack of knowledge against which is why they can end up thinking they are smart. If I remember correctly Dunning Kruger is more about delusional superiority or over estimation of their own skill level vs others. I tend to think there are plenty of smart people that over estimate their skills and other things. They just are better at covering it up.

You are right on one aspect they have flaws. Often times the really smart person isn't the person producing the most results. Most the time it is some guy just smart enough to understand the issues who simply keeps plodding away at them.
IQ doesn't determine worth either. We all have different talents. Rather than getting hung up on what we can't do or trying to do stuff we can't do we should focus on the things we can do.

 

[desmosome]

Neither of those stories / movies actually attempted to show case the intelligent thought process of the main character. They did as I suggested and showed the view from out side. Neither show tried to depict how their thought pattern worked when solving any of the problems. Instead they showed them effectively turning in the result. They did it from the observers view.
You didn't see internal dialog on the problem solving.

They also did a crap load of research again something I suggested above.

Seems your two examples tend to prove my point.

Intelligence is the ability to learn. There are no other facets to it. Mistakes are part of being human. That said smart people tend to have issues in other ways from less intelligent people.
A very smart person may fail to teach the basics of something for expects everyone to know it. They also fail to see the world from the less intelligent person's view point. They get over focused on issues and number of other flaws.
The lower intelligent person simply fails because they don't know how to proceed or can't grasp the larger picture.
I've seen scientist run their bicycles into the fence at LLNL because they were focused on the project they were working on rather than paying attention to were they are headed. They often worry to much about making a mistake thus fail to complete something like a test on time. Think of it like OCD.

The more someone knows the more they tend to realize how little they know in the grand scheme of things. People with little knowledge and intelligence have nothing to really base their lack of knowledge against which is why they can end up thinking they are smart. If I remember correctly Dunning Kruger is more about delusional superiority or over estimation of their own skill level vs others. I tend to think there are plenty of smart people that over estimate their skills and other things. They just are better at covering it up.

You are right on one aspect they have flaws. Often times the really smart person isn't the person producing the most results. Most the time it is some guy just smart enough to understand the issues who simply keeps plodding away at them.
IQ doesn't determine worth either. We all have different talents. Rather than getting hung up on what we can't do or trying to do stuff we can't do we should focus on the things we can do.

I'm not sure what your point is. Your initial argument was that a writer cannot hope to produce characters that are more intelligent than them. I simply asserted that this is false on multiple levels. The emphasis on IQ in your initial post being one of them. What even is IQ and how do we write characters with high IQ? IQ tests deal with spatial reasoning, pattern recognition, logic, memory to an extent, etc. Is this the only form of intelligence? What is intelligence? What about street smarts? What about some drug dealer that learns to do mental calculations at an absurd level? What about a book worm that has encyclopedic knowledge on various topics? What about a social savant that could hold an engaging conversation with anyone? What about a poker player who gets incredible reads? What about some political minded guy who holds nuanced but radical viewpoints on human nature and society?

These are all just rhetorical questions and it's not really consequential to writing convincing fictional characters. These stories are being told to us. We are, in fact, observers as you put it. Even the MC's actions and thoughts are merely what is being presented to us. Actually writing down the entire thought process of the MC would be an exercise in self masturbatory tedium. Which is why most stories about a "smart dude" shows the results and his interactions with other characters instead of a constant exploration of his logical reasoning. The written medium has an over visual media in showing character's thought processes. However, over-indulging in this aspect for the sake of showing some "high IQ logics" could quickly become banal and counterproductive.

I agreed that there is some level of competence and general knowledge base that would be required for writing intelligent characters. I wouldn't say this criteria is much different than just being a good writer in general, though.

I also don't dispute the fact that intelligent writers have more options available to them in terms of storytelling. We see many stories that goes against what I've just written above. Many mangakas display insane levels of creativity and logical analysis that are conveyed through the character's thought processes. JJBA, HxH, Lair Game, Usogui, etc etc. The writing speaks for itself here. These writers are intelligent. My point is that this type of writing is not the only way to convincingly display to the reader that the characters are smart as fuck. This is where the genre comes into play. A typical porn game doesn't need to show mental acrobatics to convince us that this haughty bitch is indeed smart and ruthless and in dire need of some mind break.

 

[おい！]

Pulitzer Prize winners, Nobel Prize winners, Professors, Lecturers, etc, etc, etc,......................................

 

[God3333]

Women, smart? Are you fucking insane?!

 

[khumak]

IMO, the dumber they are the less interesting the story has to be to justify their corruption. It's fine to have some dumb girls mixed in for variety, but I find conquest more interesting if it's more challenging. I think dumb girls are easier to add some humor for though.

 

[Diconica]

I'm not sure what your point is. Your initial argument was that a writer cannot hope to produce characters that are more intelligent than them. I simply asserted that this is false on multiple levels. The emphasis on IQ in your initial post being one of them. What even is IQ and how do we write characters with high IQ? IQ tests deal with spatial reasoning, pattern recognition, logic, memory to an extent, etc. Is this the only form of intelligence? What is intelligence? What about street smarts? What about some drug dealer that learns to do mental calculations at an absurd level? What about a book worm that has encyclopedic knowledge on various topics? What about a social savant that could hold an engaging conversation with anyone? What about a poker player who gets incredible reads? What about some political minded guy who holds nuanced but radical viewpoints on human nature and society?

These are all just rhetorical questions and it's not really consequential to writing convincing fictional characters. These stories are being told to us. We are, in fact, observers as you put it. Even the MC's actions and thoughts are merely what is being presented to us. Actually writing down the entire thought process of the MC would be an exercise in self masturbatory tedium. Which is why most stories about a "smart dude" shows the results and his interactions with other characters instead of a constant exploration of his logical reasoning. The written medium has an over visual media in showing character's thought processes. However, over-indulging in this aspect for the sake of showing some "high IQ logics" could quickly become banal and counterproductive.

I agreed that there is some level of competence and general knowledge base that would be required for writing intelligent characters. I wouldn't say this criteria is much different than just being a good writer in general, though.

I also don't dispute the fact that intelligent writers have more options available to them in terms of storytelling. We see many stories that goes against what I've just written above. Many mangakas display insane levels of creativity and logical analysis that are conveyed through the character's thought processes. JJBA, HxH, Lair Game, Usogui, etc etc. The writing speaks for itself here. These writers are intelligent. My point is that this type of writing is not the only way to convincingly display to the reader that the characters are smart as fuck. This is where the genre comes into play. A typical porn game doesn't need to show mental acrobatics to convince us that this haughty bitch is indeed smart and ruthless and in dire need of some mind break.

My point was you can't mimic a highly intelligent person's thought pattern if you can't understand it yourself.
I wasn't saying you can't write a story entirely where you don't have smart people in it.
I gave the the same examples you did in the original post regarding what can be researched. I also pointed out you could show intelligence from an observers view point. (Third person)

What you can't do is the internal dialog of the person solving problems.(First person)

If you asked most people how to square 1938 in their head could they do it and if so how would they go about it.
Most would try the crap they were taught in school right hand math.
Myself there are 2 ways. I'll start with what I would use most likely then the variant second.
2000*2000 = 4,000,000 - 2000*62*2 = 4,000,000-248,000 = 3,752,000 + 62*62 (3844) 3,755,844
1900*1900 + 1900*38*2 + 38*38

If I am multiplying 2 different 4 digit or larger numbers I use left hand math not right hand math because you only need to memorize one number rather than a stack of numbers.
(This is the stuff I am saying can't be done also should not be done)
BTW for those wondering that isn't near genius level.
That's a real basic example of what I mean by thought process and though pattern.
Even regular every day shit like what you think about driving to work and when some asks a general question or you have to explain something to someone else all are different depending on the level of intelligence.

Highly intelligent people can often have issues trying to understand where some less intelligent is having issues. They often fail to cover the basic concepts because they simply assume they are equally are known by others.

The two movies you listed earlier ever noticed they never did a first person point of view of their thoughts. That is on purpose.
It is much easier to put up some sort of problem play that it is big and show a third person view of it being solved or worked on.
You aren't forced to walk through solving it.

Street Smart:
Street smarts isn't actually being any smarter on any level. It's actually a learned skill set.
It's a set of skills you learn that help you survive. Learning how to act, where to find stuff, how to fight, how to find shelter, who to avoid, ...

I never said show that thought process. Both posts before this say not to. First, you wouldn't want to target just the few people who might have that you should target the average person. But it can't be so that they themselves go wait a minute this guy isn't smart hell I recognize this stuff as easy myself.

There are only two reasons I play porn games plot/story and game play.
The rest of it I can get at porn sites in abundance.
So when I see a person that is represented as supposed to be smart and they do nothing but act dumb the entire time it is a giant Fing plot hole from hell. It kills any immersion and the story/ plot at that point may as well be thrown the hell out.
Why waste the time on words if you don't plan to write it worth a shit.I can deal with bad MTL over a bad plot/story any day.
All I am asking for is try and write at least at an 8th grade level. Avoiding those types of plot holes is 5th and 6th grade shit.
You can't tell me all these writers flunked or dropped out of school that early. So that leaves one excuse laziness or just not giving a fuck.

 

[Diconica]

Hi,

(ha ha ha ha - good one)

Back to topic - you also have to integrate the fact that nowadays we also have EQ (Emotional Quotient) because someone can be intelligent but have zero empathy (borderline sociopath) and those are hard to corrupt - they'll probably cut your throat before you can do anything with them.
"Corruption": it's most of the time a mean to "take revenge" over your "troubled childhood trauma" - so you corrupt people that are a close semblance to your past tormentor.
So on this one, to each his own.

+1 on this.


+1 also with the added:
A person with an IQ over 120 will also have difficulties understanding how people around 80/90 can actually breathe...

So, as a subjective personal conclusion, I would say that the "intelligence" of a potential corruption target is not really relevant: it is the MC's perception of what he will achieve thru the corruption of his target that matters:

(in layman's terms (for a dude) what will get my cock to be the hardest?)

-seeing my cleaning lady sucking my dick (for an extra 10$) because it's 07.45am and I'm too excited to go to work in my current state?
-having my secretary wearing latex underwear and a buttplug while looking like a British teacher from the 1940s? (because I know she made Teen porn webchat to pay for her degree - I have it on a hard drive)
-knowing that the female CEO I'm having business deals with will soon feel my cock in her ass in the Men's room while screaming for more? (because I have proof she embezzled some people early in her career and I can destroy her - or her ass...)

pick yours.
(and have fun)

Edit: (Yes you can pick the 3 options at the same time - you naughty Perv)

The rub comes when you realize that most sociopaths have a fairly high IQ.
Also personality disorder isn't uncommon.
Odds are you fuck with someone over a 150 IQ you probably have a 50/50 shot of being killed in some gruesome fashion.
They could just as likely kill your family and leave you alive to contemplate you brought it all on.

 

[khumak]

I'm not sure what your point is. Your initial argument was that a writer cannot hope to produce characters that are more intelligent than them. I simply asserted that this is false on multiple levels. The emphasis on IQ in your initial post being one of them. What even is IQ and how do we write characters with high IQ? IQ tests deal with spatial reasoning, pattern recognition, logic, memory to an extent, etc. Is this the only form of intelligence? What is intelligence? What about street smarts? What about some drug dealer that learns to do mental calculations at an absurd level? What about a book worm that has encyclopedic knowledge on various topics? What about a social savant that could hold an engaging conversation with anyone? What about a poker player who gets incredible reads? What about some political minded guy who holds nuanced but radical viewpoints on human nature and society?

These are all just rhetorical questions and it's not really consequential to writing convincing fictional characters. These stories are being told to us. We are, in fact, observers as you put it. Even the MC's actions and thoughts are merely what is being presented to us. Actually writing down the entire thought process of the MC would be an exercise in self masturbatory tedium. Which is why most stories about a "smart dude" shows the results and his interactions with other characters instead of a constant exploration of his logical reasoning. The written medium has an over visual media in showing character's thought processes. However, over-indulging in this aspect for the sake of showing some "high IQ logics" could quickly become banal and counterproductive.

I agreed that there is some level of competence and general knowledge base that would be required for writing intelligent characters. I wouldn't say this criteria is much different than just being a good writer in general, though.

I also don't dispute the fact that intelligent writers have more options available to them in terms of storytelling. We see many stories that goes against what I've just written above. Many mangakas display insane levels of creativity and logical analysis that are conveyed through the character's thought processes. JJBA, HxH, Lair Game, Usogui, etc etc. The writing speaks for itself here. These writers are intelligent. My point is that this type of writing is not the only way to convincingly display to the reader that the characters are smart as fuck. This is where the genre comes into play. A typical porn game doesn't need to show mental acrobatics to convince us that this haughty bitch is indeed smart and ruthless and in dire need of some mind break.

I think it depends on what you mean by intelligence. If you mean IQ rather than expertise then I think you're right. From what I've read about the way IQ works, it's mostly a measure of how easily you can learn. It says nothing about how much or how little expertise you have at anything though. A really intelligent but lazy person could know practically nothing about anything. A person with much lower intelligence who spent a lot of time studying and practicing things could very well have more expertise at almost everything. I know plenty of smart lazy people as well as plenty of people who are not so smart but make up for it with hard work.

So writing a high IQ character could just mean that character learns things easily. But high expertise is different. If I wanted to write about a character who was a doctor for instance, I would have trouble coming up with believable dialog for situations where he was supposed to show his medical knowledge because beyond high school biology, organic chemistry in college, and various things I've read about, I have very little medical knowledge. I could throw in a few medical terms but anyone who actually knows anything about medicine would likely see it as mostly nonsense.

 

[WindyGust]

I started a war, im sorry.

 

[Diconica]

I started a war, im sorry.

Not even close.

 

[Diconica]

I think it depends on what you mean by intelligence. If you mean IQ rather than expertise then I think you're right. From what I've read about the way IQ works, it's mostly a measure of how easily you can learn. It says nothing about how much or how little expertise you have at anything though. A really intelligent but lazy person could know practically nothing about anything. A person with much lower intelligence who spent a lot of time studying and practicing things could very well have more expertise at almost everything. I know plenty of smart lazy people as well as plenty of people who are not so smart but make up for it with hard work.

So writing a high IQ character could just mean that character learns things easily. But high expertise is different. If I wanted to write about a character who was a doctor for instance, I would have trouble coming up with believable dialog for situations where he was supposed to show his medical knowledge because beyond high school biology, organic chemistry in college, and various things I've read about, I have very little medical knowledge. I could throw in a few medical terms but anyone who actually knows anything about medicine would likely see it as mostly nonsense.

You are right to an extent.
IQ does as you say determine how easy it is for you to learn.
It also determines your capacity or level you can learn, how much you can retain stuff, your capability to remember more complex issues... and more.
You will never find a someone with advance science and technical knowledge with a 70 IQ.
It doesn't matter how long they study. Even if they lived a million years they wouldn't grasp it.
There are concepts in more technical and scientific fields that are abstract in nature and require a different type of perspective to grasp.
If you look at this article they show a chart on IQ vs STEM jobs.

You must be registered to see the links

There are better sources out there in research papers and studies. Most likely they pulled the data for the chart from one of them. There doesn't appear to be anything to indicate which set of data they used. That said it isn't off any significant amount from one's I seen. They drew the bell curve as a perfect bell curve that's wrong. It should be left skewed, so that is wrong.

You are totally correct in that someone who is driven with a lower IQ can achieve more than someone with a higher IQ who is lazy.

Expertise is learned knowledge. The level and type of expertise you can achieve is limited by your level of intelligence IQ being the measure of that compared to others.

There is a lot of information available on this just search for "IQ vs career" and so on. There have been lots of studies.

There have also been a lot of false papers and studies published trying to get people not to focus on IQ when it comes to education. Anyone with a decent science background can see how they manipulated data to get their out come though. Blame it on all the bleeding hearts and idiots who give out participation trophies.
I don't get people like that. I'd rather tell someone the truth. We all have limits. It's better to accept the one's we have no control over so we can work on the stuff we can actually make a change and find happiness rather than waste a life time trying to succeed at something we never will.

 

[DuniX]

A person with a 100 IQ can never write from the perspective of a person with a 150 IQ
They don't see the world the same. There isn't a damn thing they can ever do to change that.
Also education can play as much or more of a problem. A person who has no real understanding of complex topics is easily spotted when trying to write about it.

That's not entirely true since they control what happens with the plot and how that it is resolved. Most problems with it is precisely that authors dig themselves in a hole without realizing it.
As well as you have access to wikis so they can research topics at their own pace.
Knowledge can be understood, it may not be "Experience" but it is good enough.

 

[MrSilverLust]

My point was you can't mimic a highly intelligent person's thought pattern if you can't understand it yourself.
I wasn't saying you can't write a story entirely where you don't have smart people in it.
I gave the the same examples you did in the original post regarding what can be researched. I also pointed out you could show intelligence from an observers view point. (Third person)

What you can't do is the internal dialog of the person solving problems.(First person)

(...)

There are only two reasons I play porn games plot/story and game play.
The rest of it I can get at porn sites in abundance.
So when I see a person that is represented as supposed to be smart and they do nothing but act dumb the entire time it is a giant Fing plot hole from hell. It kills any immersion and the story/ plot at that point may as well be thrown the hell out.
Why waste the time on words if you don't plan to write it worth a shit.I can deal with bad MTL over a bad plot/story any day.
All I am asking for is try and write at least at an 8th grade level. Avoiding those types of plot holes is 5th and 6th grade shit.
You can't tell me all these writers flunked or dropped out of school that early. So that leaves one excuse laziness or just not giving a fuck.

I think you (and probably others discussing the topic) might enjoy “The Erogamer” (if you don’t know it already). It’s not a game though, it’s just an erotic story. But, curiously, deals with both corruption and smart characters. Basically an ugly, fat girl (author’s words) one day wakes up and discovers she has become the protagonist of an eroge game, but everything else remains the same. And then she has to discover all the rules of the game and what the hell is going on. One of the rules is that the more lewd acts she does the more points she gains and can invest in her traits, being Beauty one of them. For the first time in her life she can actually be pretty. She would rather die than give that up and going back to be undesirable to everyone. And thus starts her descent into depravity.

The way she and some other characters interact with the world is quite believable and intelligent. I recommend it to anyone that enjoys reading and is interested in porn with smart characters.

 

[Diconica]

That's not entirely true since they control what happens with the plot and how that it is resolved. Most problems with it is precisely that authors dig themselves in a hole without realizing it.
As well as you have access to wikis so they can research topics at their own pace.
Knowledge can be understood, it may not be "Experience" but it is good enough.

I think I understand what you are saying. You are saying that if a person has a problem to solve the author could look up a real world example and use that as the example of the guy solving the problem to represent or show case the intelligence.
If that's what you are trying to say, you are wrong.

Intelligence and knowledge are two entirely different things.
Intelligence is about the thought process.

This is just an example I am giving not how it actually works.
Lets say a person with a 100 IQ sees a situation or problem from one view point.
The person with a 120 IQ sees it from 2 view points at the same time.
140 IQ sees it from 4 view points
160 IQ sees it from 8 view points

The person with a 100 IQ is never going to see the situation ever the same as the person with much higher IQ.
The same as the person with the much higher IQ can't entirely understand the lower IQs view point because he has never seen the same problem from only on perspective.

It goes beyond that. Two people with different IQs sitting in the same class hearing the same instructions will come out of the class with two different tool sets to solve the problems.

It has to do with thought process and how you view the world. It doesn't matter how much knowledge you acquire.
If a person with an IQ of 120 and another with an IQ of 160 acquired the same degree at the same school and then went to work at the same company on the same problem the person with the 120 IQ isn't going to see the problem the same way as the person with the 160 IQ and vice versa. Unless the problem is relatively simple they won't end up with the same means to solve it if they work at it independently.

There are very few universities I accept a degree from as proof the person can do a job. There are lots of not very intelligent people who get their degrees because they could memorize. But their ability to actually apply it in actuality doesn't exist.
75% of people in the US with a degree don't work in their degree field or make use of the what they were taught on the technical side of it.

Maybe, I can give you a bit of an example: You can use the internet if you want.
What is a number?
Hint: I'm using the example because the answer isn't generally available on the internet.
You also won't find the right answer in Collin's math dictionary or others.
The wiki page for number spouts a lot of crap but never actually gets to the heart of what a number is.
The following line will serve to ensure I don't change my answer.
5:1,1:2,2:3,6:5,2:6,1:8,3:9,2:12,2:13,2:14,1:15,2:16,4:18,4:19,3:20,3:21,1:22
Just think of it as a type of hash.

You should have some fun with that question, "what is a number". As a bunch of different people and look at the results you get.

 

[DuniX]

This is just an example I am giving not how it actually works.
Lets say a person with a 100 IQ sees a situation or problem from one view point.
The person with a 120 IQ sees it from 2 view points at the same time.
140 IQ sees it from 4 view points
160 IQ sees it from 8 view points

And what I am saying is the Only Valid View Point is what the Author Decided since he controls the Plot.
Thus if what the author decided is good enough after doing proper research then it doesn't matter.
There is one Truth of Nature, there is one Reality. And Knowledge can be Known.
Intelligence is mere permutations on finding the right answer, if you have the answer from the start it isn't needed.
No matter how intelligent he is, he is just a speck of dust in front of the Universe, History and the Total Sum of Human Knowledge.

 

[DuniX]

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Diconica]

And what I am saying is the Only Valid View Point is what the Author Decided since he controls the Plot.
Thus if what the author decided is good enough after doing proper research then it doesn't matter.
There is one Truth of Nature, there is one Reality. And Knowledge can be Known.
Intelligence is mere permutations on finding the right answer, if you have the answer from the start it isn't needed.
No matter how intelligent he is, he is just a speck of dust in front of the Universe, History and the Total Sum of Human Knowledge.

The problem is you have an author with a 100 IQ trying to show the first person view of a character with a supposed 150 IQ and it doesn't come off believable at all.
What happens is you end up with characters that say and act entirely different from someone like that actually would.
It kills the immersion and does nothing but creates plot holes in the story.

Just because the author says so doesn't make it right. If that was the case there wouldn't be plot holes in stories to start with.

This discussion with you right now is proof of what I am talking about.
You keep thinking this shit has something to do with knowledge. IT DOESN'T.

We are talking about the way people think and how they act because of that.

"Intelligence is mere permutations on finding the right answer, if you have the answer from the start it isn't needed.
No matter how intelligent he is, he is just a speck of dust in front of the Universe, History and the Total Sum of Human Knowledge. "
And that's horse shit. That you trying to act smart rather than actually saying something of value.

Want to prove you are smart, answer the number question.
Pretty much most people with a 130+IQ have figured it out with never being taught it in school.
It's a rather simple concept to understand.

 

[DuniX]

It kills the immersion and does nothing but creates plot holes in the story.

For who?

Just because the author says so doesn't make it right. If that was the case there wouldn't be plot holes in stories to start with.

My whole point is that he has plenty of time to get it right, and getting it right is a question of time and research not intelligence. Plot holes are also about proper outlining and organization.

And that's horse shit. That you trying to act smart rather than actually saying something of value.

Are you more intelligent than Nietzsche or Jung? If you truly read and understand those books(of course that implies a prerequisite level of intelligence in order to understand), and write characters based on those concepts and themes, while it would not be the "Experience" of Nietzsche or Jung writing, and honestly they are too high level for most people, it would be "Knowledge" that could be used to create pretty intelligent characters in fiction.

There is plenty of Knowledge around that nowadays you can look at any moment on any topic imaginable. And most of the things I Know you can never even imagine, if I draw upon that knowledge, I have the advantage not you no matter how intelligent you are.

 

[Diconica]

For who?

First off plot holes exist regardless who is reading it.
As for the immersion. Pretty much anyone that has an average IQ or above. It would take a real moron to see it.
Lets say the author is 110 IQ person and he writes about a so called genius character.
Even a person at 110 IQ reading it is going to go this character isn't acting any smarter than I am.
The person siting at a higher IQ will go why the hell is this guy acting like a complete moron? Why doesn't he do this that or something else.
So anyone that can actually read and has enough mental faculty to recognize the difference in behavior will see it if they pay the slightest bit of attention. Maybe, the guy sitting there not actually reading the story clicking through cause he has his dick in one hand and is just trying to get to the next fap scene won't spot it but pretty much anyone who can read and has a usable brain will see it.

My whole point is that he has plenty of time to get it right, and getting it right is a question of time and research not intelligence. Plot holes are also about proper outlining and organization.

The only way he could get it right is to have someone of that intelligence level to write it for him.

The only way he can get it right himself is to tell it from an observers view point. 3d person. It's is a fact that it is impossible for them to do. You could have till the end of the universe and never ever get it correct. It isn't something that is time dependent.

Are you more intelligent than Nietzsche or Jung? If you truly read and understand those books(of course that implies a prerequisite level of intelligence in order to understand), and write characters based on those concepts and themes, while it would not be the "Experience" of Nietzsche or Jung writing, and honestly they are too high level for most people, it would be "Knowledge" that could be used to create pretty intelligent characters in fiction.

Nietzsche and Jung, were less smart than most people give them credit for. They are smart compared to the average person. Both are great observers and good at association. Sometimes they both made false correlations. Going by the way they did stuff and wrote they are probably in the 130 to 140 maybe 145 range. They took years to come up with their stuff. They weren't like John Nash type of smart.
I wouldn't put me at John Nash level. His IQ hasn't been officially published. I do understand his works. I also have 6 advanced STEM backgrounds math being one of them. This isn't about me anyways.

It is about the difference in the way people think.

There is plenty of Knowledge around that nowadays you can look at any moment on any topic imaginable. And most of the things I Know you can never even imagine, if I draw upon that knowledge, I have the advantage not you no matter how intelligent you are.

You keep bringing up the word KNOWLEDGE. Again it has ZERO the Fuck to do with knowledge. How is it you can't get that one concept in your head.
Knowledge and intelligence are independent of one another. We aren't talking about knowledge.

This discussion right here with you is a perfect example up till now of a person not understanding a concept.
How many times will I need to repeat that to you it doesn't have to do with knowledge.

I'm going to go ahead and give you the right answer to the number question.
A number is a formula that represents a specific value.
This is a very basic and simple concept about numbers.
Can you explain why it is true and provide an example proving it. I can.
If you graduated high school even if with just a GED you should have had enough fundamentals to realize this.
The fact is most people don't know it off hand. Not knowing it isn't something to feel bad about. It has to do with the difference in how we see something.

 

[DuniX]

First off plot holes exist regardless who is reading it.

Just because they don't have a 200 IQ doesn't mean they don't have the diligence and planning to not have plot holes.

Even a person at 110 IQ reading it is going to go this character isn't acting any smarter than I am.

If the intelligent character pulls off a great scheme that awes the audience, do they have the time to think about a Big Brain like you?

recognize the difference in behavior

Statistically speaking how many people do have a big brain friend like you?

And in the first place does being intelligent makes you unpredictable and mysterious?
If they are predictable why can't author analyze and write one?
If they are mysterious and quirky why can't they write that even if it's not the "real thing".

Intelligence ultimately boils down to problem solving, which isn't anything special or mysterious. And as an author you control all the problems, and you can take your time and research to construct a satisfying problem and resolution.