I am tired of seeing unfinished games

xoxo

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Jul 4, 2017
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Making games can be a hobby, making porn games is 99% of the time a way to make money. I believe most devs would prefer to create different games if it was just for fun. People won't work 4-8 hours a day on their hobbies to update their games every 1-2 months just for fun.

On a side note, I always think it's funny when someone says "Dude, I could make a game as good as that one and be a billionaire if I wanted to! I just..." :rolleyes:
I remember thinking I knew all about making successful games until I actually tried to.
 

Nagozo

Member
Sep 30, 2017
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Ah, never fails. I guess when you can't argue with your merits you kinda have to turn to insults. I don't blame you, it's okay senpai. I believe in you. You can do it.

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You know what, I'll take that encouragement.

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But seriously, it's all in good fun. It was just amusing to see you break out 12 paragraphs to prove yourself. You've clearly got your own experiences, even if some of us disagree with some of your opinions.
 

Deleted member 5460870

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After wearing heels all day TESOL, I don't have enough energy to work on my game sometimes, so I decided to make it episodic; I can empathize with a gamer since I'm also one myself, and I like to think they can empathize with me too. :giggle:
 
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moskyx

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Making games can be a hobby, making porn games is 99% of the time a way to make money. I believe most devs would prefer to create different games if it was just for fun. People won't work 4-8 hours a day on their hobbies to update their games every 1-2 months just for fun.
Erm... No? If you really want to make money from making games, you would be way better off aiming at creating some shitty sfw puzzle game for Android and iOS than making a porn game. If only, just because of the potential market size for your creation. And that's what actual wannabe devs do most of times. If they are making a porn game it's either because this is a hobbie for them (a hobbie they may hope to monetize, but a hobbie anyway), or they are horribly misguided (or too optimistic guys). Then of course, we also have some real pros with enough skills to earn a living from porn games, but those are only a few exceptions in a sea full of mediocre attempts.
 

Carpe Stultus

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Sep 30, 2018
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After wearing heels all day TESOL, I don't have enough energy to work on my game sometimes, so I decided to make it episodic; I can empathize with a gamer since I'm also one myself, and I like to think they can empathize with me too. :giggle:
Looks at the OP
Good luck with that. :LUL:

The only thing that i really don't like about all this unfinished games stuff is that a lot of devs won't tell the truth as to why they won't continue. I mean sure it is not really any of my business what the true reason is but damn there is no need to lie about it.
 

Ghostload

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The worst part is when you get really invested in a game that's gone really heavy into story territory, only to end.
 

jamdan

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Sep 28, 2018
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You're absolutely and hopelessly wrong. Low effort work is rarely rewarded outside of mainstream media and the only reason low effort can be successful in the mainstream is because it's always carried by a well known name or brand. But not everyone who works hard is necessarily competent enough to succeed either. Highly motivated new dev's tend to overestimate their competence.

The most successful dev's have put in the hours of learning their craft. I can't think of a single low effort game that is massively successful. You just think it looks low effort because perhaps the game is simple? I don't know. Give me an example of a successful game that is, to your mind, low effort.
I don't think this is true, at least for adult VN/games.

There are a lot of games that are of higher quality, and get next to no support. While there are many games that are very mediocre, if not bad, that gets tons of it.

I also think we need to define what "low effort is". Obviously, games that are objectively trash won't get support, at least not usually, but the threshold for getting support isn't very high. It's also hard to tell what is "low effort" and the developer themselves just not being very skilled. They can try very hard, yet still end up making a mediocre product. The opposite is also true.

The common factor is fetishes. If you make decent art, and include popular fetishes, the rest of your game can be pretty bad. Sometimes people don't even care if the art is good, as long as it has their fetishes.
 
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xoxo

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Jul 4, 2017
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If you really want to make money from making games, you would be way better off aiming at creating some shitty sfw puzzle game for Android and iOS than making a porn game. If only, just because of the potential market size for your creation.
In your opinion. Bottom-feeding is a valid indie strategy too.

In a lot of countries, $500+ a month is a good salary. People see a lot of devs making that with low quality games and that's why they go for it, imo. Plus, there is a chance they start making a lot more. If you ask for money offering rewards, you're doing it for the money.

And that's what actual wannabe devs do most of times. If they are making a porn game it's either because this is a hobbie for them (a hobbie they may hope to monetize, but a hobbie anyway)
Yes, every dev is making shitty android games and any other game is made as a hobby :unsure: The reason you see so many incomplete games here is because people were trying to make money from them and didn't.
 

moskyx

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In your opinion. Bottom-feeding is a valid indie strategy too.

In a lot of countries, $500+ a month is a good salary. People see a lot of devs making that with low quality games and that's why they go for it, imo. Plus, there is a chance they start making a lot more. If you ask for money offering rewards, you're doing it for the money.


Yes, every dev is making shitty android games and any other game is made as a hobby :unsure: The reason you see so many incomplete games here is because people were trying to make money from them and didn't.
OK, we are not that far in our opinions. The way I see it, the reason for so many incomplete games is that, unlike proper app development, this genre has very low entry barriers, which makes it a perfect hobby. You don't need to be a coder or even an artist to try your luck with Ren'py/RPGM and Daz3D/HoneySelect. Therefore, I partially agree with you: many people think they can make money with this, but it's still their hobby because if they were actually serious about being a dev, they'd educate themselves on actual coding languages as that's where the actual money is, you can get more job opportunities and develop a proper career. So we have a bunch of average Joes thinking they can spend some hours per week working on a game as they'd do with any other hobby but hoping to get those hundreds of bucks in exchange. However, chances are they are not good storytellers, and/or not good designers, and/or not good writers, and/or not good at marketing, and/or maybe not even skilled enough to code a bug-free simple renpy game. So, unless they truly offer something different, a very large chunk of them is bound to fail miserably and then they'll realize this is just not worth it. There's no actual strategy or market planning behind most of those abandoned games (sometimes not even a basic game plan) so I can only consider those efforts a hobby.
 
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jamdan

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Sep 28, 2018
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The reason you see so many incomplete games here is because people were trying to make money from them and didn't.
I think this is too simplified.

Do people hope to make money from their game? Sure. But they don't expect it, and those that do usually abandon very quickly when it doesn't. Like Silk&Milk has done, twice. The average game on Patreon makes very little money. $500 dollars a month is probably in the top 10% of earners.

To me, other than personal IRL issues, the biggest reason games get abandoned is because they're just too big to be complete. As been said several times so far, most developers are hobbyists. And part of being a hobbyist is biting off more than you can chew. Another factor is many developers, including some successful ones, don't plan their game.

Biggest reasons games are abandoned, no particular order:

1- The game is too ambitious and eventually collapses under its own weight. If your game will take a decade to complete, do you really think you'll get it done?
2- The developer is too much of a perfectionist. Which causes very slow updates and constant reworks.
3- The developer overworks and burns themselves out.
4- The developer doesn't plan or have a strategy. They make a game and a few updates in, they don't know what to do anymore. So they give up.
5- Hardware failure.
6- Wanting to make money and not making money.

And of course, usually it's a combination of these things.
 

Baka_Oni

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Oct 2, 2020
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I hear yeah Breeders of the Nephelym is a good example of unfinished (The recent update was they are now selling sex toys and possible NFTs) I kind of want the Devs to finish that game, It has potential to be something amazing.
 

DanThaMan

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Jun 25, 2017
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The devs are their own boss, so they are under no obligation to finish their product if they choose to so they can walk away at any time..
 
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Klauw1988

Member
Aug 23, 2020
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Most people underestimate how difficult and time consuming it is. There are dozens of reasons why a produtct isn't going to be finished or they simply doesn't have the right mindset.

I'm also busy with a novel for months and my problem is that I always find something to improve. It's hard to get rid of this behaviour to be honest. I fall under point 2 that jamdan pointed out.

This is one of the reasons why I think communication is very important between a developer and their fans/customers. I don't support dev's who doesn't communicate and leave fans/customers in the dark.
 

MarbleCrown

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Apr 7, 2022
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I think this is too simplified.

Do people hope to make money from their game? Sure. But they don't expect it, and those that do usually abandon very quickly when it doesn't. Like Silk&Milk has done, twice. The average game on Patreon makes very little money. $500 dollars a month is probably in the top 10% of earners.

To me, other than personal IRL issues, the biggest reason games get abandoned is because they're just too big to be complete. As been said several times so far, most developers are hobbyists. And part of being a hobbyist is biting off more than you can chew. Another factor is many developers, including some successful ones, don't plan their game.

Biggest reasons games are abandoned, no particular order:

1- The game is too ambitious and eventually collapses under its own weight. If your game will take a decade to complete, do you really think you'll get it done?
2- The developer is too much of a perfectionist. Which causes very slow updates and constant reworks.
3- The developer overworks and burns themselves out.
4- The developer doesn't plan or have a strategy. They make a game and a few updates in, they don't know what to do anymore. So they give up.
5- Hardware failure.
6- Wanting to make money and not making money.

And of course, usually it's a combination of these things.
Pretty much agreed.

Before I had decided to make my own game, I had been playing adult games for years so I like to think that I had a pretty good understanding of the pitfalls going in. I made a detailed plan, stayed consistent with the content I wanted to deliver and settled into a routine I knew I could maintain without burning out. After six months its served me very well. I can't see myself stopping before my first game is done.

I think another pitfall though is fetish creep. Not just to the point where the game becomes too big to reasonably finish, but too many fetishes usually end up either very shallow or the dev outright quits because he isn't as motivated with some fetishes over others.

More money is always nice, but at this point I'm just trying to put the money the game earns back into making the game better.
 

xoxo

Newbie
Jul 4, 2017
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So we have a bunch of average Joes thinking they can spend some hours per week working on a game as they'd do with any other hobby but hoping to get those hundreds of bucks in exchange. However, chances are they are not good storytellers, and/or not good designers, and/or not good writers, and/or not good at marketing, and/or maybe not even skilled enough to code a bug-free simple renpy game. So, unless they truly offer something different, a very large chunk of them is bound to fail miserably and then they'll realize this is just not worth it. There's no actual strategy or market planning behind most of those abandoned games (sometimes not even a basic game plan) so I can only consider those efforts a hobby.
I agree with everything you said, I just wouldn't call someone bad in what they do/are trying to do a hobbyist just because of that.

To me, other than personal IRL issues, the biggest reason games get abandoned is
Same as above. The listed mistakes are indeed very common between hobbyists and bad/beginner game developers, but making them doesn't make you necessarily a hobbyist.
finishgame04.jpg
I believe if it wasn't for the money, they would prefer to make those same mistakes trying to develop the next massive open-world MMORPG they always wanted to play instead of visual novels about people fucking.
 

Cryswar

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May 31, 2019
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Making games can be a hobby, making porn games is 99% of the time a way to make money. I believe most devs would prefer to create different games if it was just for fun. People won't work 4-8 hours a day on their hobbies to update their games every 1-2 months just for fun.
I don't want any part of the ongoing argument, but I do genuinely enjoy most of the game process! Part of making adult games is the possibility of making adult games; a game that doesn't have to shy away from portraying teenagers being horny and heroes that want to fuck.

Anyone jumping in looking for money is probably in for a very rude surprise, though. Even if you focus on making it monetizable (daz3d, animations, milf/incest, etc) you're still probably gonna get run over by the successful ones, and if you don't have those your game is even less likely to make any real profit.

Given how low the average patreon income is, I'd guess the opposite; most devs are in it because they want to make the game and are just really hoping they make enough money to support it. And... very few will make anything close.
 

Alboe Interactive

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Apr 19, 2020
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I can't understand the logic of "it's just a hobby" and "why all these unfinished and abandoned games" coexisting in someone's head. If it is someone's hobby they can do whatever the fuck they want and dropping the project is what a lot choose to do. Along with all the other unfinished projects people have like fixing up a table or restoring a car. Yet people will still complain even when a dev doesn't take any money and abandons their project.

As a hobby, adult game development is not exactly fun, it ain't cheap, and toxic public spaces will wear you down. Let's go through a scenario where you are dev making "yet another Daz visual novel" and hoping for it to be somewhat "successful" (popular and/or monetary support wise).

Fundamentally, art is by far the biggest factor in the development time spent making an adult game. Programs like Daz allow people who can't draw (like me) the ability to make something that would otherwise be impossible for them. The difference between sfw games and adult games is almost everything is "handmade". Meaning most adult games don't get the luxury of making a pickaxe swinging animation and hit sound that will be used over and over again. Every scene has to be different and creating all the needed art is a far more staggering obstacle than most realize. And that is after using premade assets, skipping a huge portion of real-world game development like modeling, rigging, texturing, etc.

New devs don't know what they don't know, and one of the biggest reality checks is ambition colliding with skillset. There are so many things that you would think are relatively simple that turn out to be monumental nightmares to actually make. Take anything to do with water as an example, we all know what a wet human should look like. To get one single shot of a wet character in the shower you need the shower and the water drops to set the scene (steam, water drops on the walls, and puddles on the floor are usually skipped over entirely). Then you need a wet hair asset and a wet skin asset. And if you want to add sex to the mix, then all of that stuff has to be compatible with the genitalia you chose (hope you didn't choose the "wrong" one). If anything is off just a smidge, it can kill the suspension of disbelief. This is why most adult games don't have any (or good) animations either. It's hard enough to make static images, creating smooth believable motion is exponentially more difficult and time-consuming.

Despite how much an "entry-level" program like Daz touts itself to be, it is not plug and play. The amount of manual adjustment required to make renders look above average could drive you nuts. On top of learning a 3D rendering program, you also need to learn Ren'Py or some other engine to deliver the art. Devs also need to market themselves and make posts/content for Patreon or try to get their stuff trending on Twitter, Reddit, etc. Whether hobby or professional, anyone creating content wants it to be seen.

And it doesn't stop there, because once you start interacting with the audience it is overwhelming, to say the least. Everyone wants something different, and some don't so much request things as demand them (like "No animations for a game released in this day and age? C'mon, add animations."). Not to mention there are an endless array of chucklefucks throwing around their 2 cents in a currency that is only valuable to them. This leads to setting up a Discord server to filter some of the toxicity out and now you have to monitor that too. You may get helpful people that join or you might end up with a ghost town, it's a total crap shoot.

So now the time set aside for developing the game is stretched significantly between all these other things when all you wanted to do was make a bunch of lewd scenes with the fetishes you liked. The hours dedicated to the project per week either have to expand to accommodate or actual game development time has to shrink. Neither option is pleasant. You start seeing free time as "I need to work on my game" and feel guilty if you aren't steadily delivering content to your supporters.

This was supposed to be a fun hobby right? Where did it all go wrong?

In summation, the initial monetary cost is high (even excluding hardware), unless already heavily experienced you often need to buy more stuff you didn't account for, and the return on this investment is far below minimum wage unless you hit big (or make borderline illegal loli stuff). Then add on all the extraneous marketing that doesn't involve making lewd scenes and you have a recipe for the current state of adult games. Newer devs come in bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, only to be utterly stomped into the dirt by the reality that most of the monetarily successful devs have already been around for years, and these noob devs basically walked into a money pit. And if they want to continue doing this for "fun", they have to bankroll the ongoing costs themselves or give up.

In conclusion, there are very few people with the time, money, and wherewithal to get into adult game development and stick with it. Anything more serious than creating a short demo or dicking around for a thrill requires several orders of magnitude more time, money, and wherewithal to dedicate to a longer project. Adult game devs are not a lewd version of Tolkien, we don't just sit at PC for years creating sexy stuff before showing to it off for the world to see. It is completely unreasonable to suggest that a new developer starts out of the gate with a completed game that contains 10+ hours of content.
 
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Ophanim

Member
May 2, 2018
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415
This thread reads like the world's most understated argument for living wage laws I've ever seen :p

Artists almost always have a huge period of training before being able to even think about making money off of their craft, as others have noted, which is why when social systems fail, it's the artists who are among the first to suffer. They need those monetary safety nets to have the time to hone their skills in order to even start asking for money. Can you imagine how much better small indie porn projects could be if the dev didn't have to do all that marketing just to be able to eat? So while I largely agree with the developer-friendly arguments in this thread, I do want to push back against one particular sentiment I keep seeing pop up over and over:

Our system of forcing artists to regularly satisfy x number of paying customers or literally starve to death on the street isn't 'reality'. The ass-backwards results of unregulated global markets, in this case desperate people pumping out wide-market-appeal extruded art product just to keep their lights on, isn't an inevitable result of some cosmic law. It's politics. And politics can change if you apply enough dissenting voices, so if you care about newbie game devs being put through what is essentially a horrible meat grinder of stress and woe, it's probably best to stop writing off why they're having that experience as something akin to 'it's just fate lol', you know? Not suggesting anyone start riots over the rights of game devs, but realistically things do not have to be this way.

Like, this is a pirate site, no? Let's not insert defences for unjust systems where they're not warranted.
 
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Winterfire

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op:

also op:


...
...
...
Okay.
Nothing wrong with that.
It is not like a gaym developer stops making games once they complete a project... Choosing to support one who has finished projects is actually the safest bet.


I don't think a single game on here is garbage.
Yes, some have higher quality art / renders than others, some are text only, some having better writing than others, some have better mechanisms than others.
But every game on here has the efforts of its dev(s) put into it. Not a single one of them is garbage.
My games are garbage.


You literally said that some dev's have to stop making their game because they have to pay for rent and food. This implies that said dev is somewhat dependent on their games supporters to pay for these expenses. This is what I'm critical of.
imagine the difference between being homeless or not depended on patreon staff's mood, couldn't be me :eek:


I could make a game like Milfy City in under 2 weeks
Also, I like my art. As a matter of fact - have more:
Bruh, no. You are literally taking screenshots of KK like I do. We are both garbage, in fact, you should join the talentless team with: I (the talentless leader), ShinyDarkRai as my right hand man, fierylion (he's kind of sus tho) and some other I prob forgot.

Then again, you're also sus cos you add some fancy stuff in your game, so you know what, I'll kick you out of talentless team after all, you're not talentless, we already have fierylion being sus.

However, you cannot compare yourself to God Icstor.


Well, this conversation was enlightening. Gotta go before someone shows up and tells me I have work to do on my game.
:censored:
Update when? go work on your game dude


Making games can be a hobby, making porn games is 99% of the time a way to make money.
Are you saying porn games cannot contain gameplay?

People won't work 4-8 hours a day on their hobbies to update their games every 1-2 months just for fun.
Bet?


After wearing heels all day
you're trying too hard bro


Obviously, games that are objectively trash
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME


The reason you see so many incomplete games here is because people were trying to make money from them and didn't.
fax
that's why making games in order to make money is a stupid gamble, especially if you do not enjoy doing it.
imho, you should start game developing with the expectation of making 0 dollars, and be ready to finish the project with 0 dollars.


this genre has very low entry barriers, which makes it a perfect hobby.
that's true for game development in general, not just nsfw
i'd say the majority just quit because they won't make money, people abandoning because they pursue a new cool idea (and are therefore enjoying this as a hobby) are an exception (at least in the nsfw scene)


But they don't expect it,
are you new


I'm also busy with a novel for months and my problem is that I always find something to improve.
oh yes, the curse of perfectionism... I feel sorry for you. You'll be in my prayers


I don't want any part of the ongoing argument,
not your choice, it's too late, i already grabbed your arm and i am pulling you into the argument, you can only fight now say goodbye to your inner peace and freedom
also you have "war" in your game, you were asking for it
 
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