I am tired of seeing unfinished games

GrumpyGranny

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The link is pasted twice.
Tbh I'm surprised 30% prefer 3D lol
Oh shite, thanks. I suppose the general quality of the games is also a factor and I'd assume that 2D games will be generally of higher quality (even though there is plenty of low-effort MTL VNs out there). But yeah, could be that most of the players prefer 2D visuals (myself included).
 
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Vanderer

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Oh shite, thanks. I suppose the general quality of the games is also a factor and I'd assume that 2D games will be generally of higher quality (even though there is plenty of low-effort MTL VNs out there). But yeah, could be that most of the players prefer 2D visuals (myself included).
It is possible, but perhaps the people who respond to the polls on the forums are not your average player, but a subgroup of them?

When I look at the most liked games on F95, the huge majority of them are 3D.
 
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Winterfire

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It is possible, but perhaps the people who respond to the polls on the forums are not your average player, but a subgroup of them?

When I look at the most liked games on F95, the huge majority of them are 3D.
They are the majority because it takes less talent to develop a 3DCG game, not because they are prefered.
 

GrumpyGranny

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It is possible, but perhaps the people who respond to the polls on the forums are not your average player, but a subgroup of them?

When I look at the most liked games on F95, the huge majority of them are 3D.
That could be because most of the 2D games would be from japanese studios targeting japenese players.
 
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Greiya Archives

first rate degenerate
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It is possible, but perhaps the people who respond to the polls on the forums are not your average player, but a subgroup of them?

When I look at the most liked games on F95, the huge majority of them are 3D.
Hmm, that's a good point, but it's also possible that there being more 3D games is a bigger factor with regards to that than people's preference for 3D or 2D games.

I can't speak for others, but for me, while I say I prefer 2D art, I don't think that would affect whether or not I like a particular game.
 
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GrumpyGranny

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They are the majority because it takes less talent to develop a 3DCG game, not because they are prefered.
The amount of work or talent if you wish might be equal (for top games/art), I'd say the difference is entry-level / learning curve for 2D art vs let's say DAZ, where anyone can produce reasonably good-looking images in a little amount of time.
 

Gwedelino

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I have no doubt that a lot of people are dropping their games because they're desperate when they see the gap between the attention their game can draw at the initial release and the attention their game actually has just several hours later. The number of new released game is so high it is hard to get above the rest.

Most of the games here are forgotten just hours after their release. The only interaction they receive is just a :

"Looks promising, will try it when there is more content."

I also have the feeling it's incredibly hard to get back from a bad first impression., which mean you need a lot of commitment on the initial build to be able to draw some attention.
 
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Greiya Archives

first rate degenerate
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I have no doubt that a lot of people are dropping their games because they're desperate when they see the gap between the attention their game can draw at the initial release and the attention their game actually has just several hours later. The number of new released game is so high it is hard to get above the rest.
This is so true.

I made the first release of my first game early Oct (just last month) - and the completed version in the same month (my first game was a short side story [my games are a series], and a kinetic vn).

For the most part, almost everything is a lot like i expected it to be.

But one thing that surprised me is how much attention a game gets when it's on the first page of latest updates (which usually lasts for about 24 hours) vs just another 24 hour later.


This was especially surprising for me since the first game i made (SM's Maid) had a lot of extreme content, I wouldn't expect most people to play it just from seeing the previews.
Inversely, particularly because it's unusual (there really aren't that many games with reluctant lezdom / lesbian slavery) I thought most people who would enjoy it would find it through tags search or from keyword "lezdom" search, as opposed to just seeing it on the front page. Turns out I was quite wrong about this.
Within 24 hours (i think) of first release, I had 10 patrons, which was extremely astonishing to me (I actually didn't expect so much support from my first game. As i mentioned, it was niche, had extreme content, was a kinetic vn, and I was experimenting with HS2 and Renpy cause i wasn't confident enough with them to start with a main story of my series - which I'm making now, and I think is orders of magnitude better than my first game, in terms of quality of CGs alone, aside from having an original strategy rpg battle system that I don't think any adult games currently have anything similar to). But the reverse also held true, I was a bit surprised by how few people will find your game once it's no longer on the front page.
 

Carpe Stultus

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They are the majority because it takes less talent to develop a 3DCG game, not because they are prefered.
To pull off a really good looking 3dcg game it takes a shitload of talent, knowledge and skill. Especially when we are talking about the DAZ/Blender side of things. 2d requires a different skillset but for that there are also programs out there.
 

Winterfire

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To pull off a really good looking 3dcg game it takes a shitload of talent, knowledge and skill. Especially when we are talking about the DAZ/Blender side of things. 2d requires a different skillset but for that there are also programs out there.
Yeah, as grumpgranny said, it is about entry level and that's what I had in mind when I said that.
 

GrumpyGranny

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Making 2D art is a huge factor imo. It's expensive as hell.
It's also extremely time consuming, even for skilled artists.

It's just more efficient to use 3D.

Just having this made cost me 45$, and it's not even "complete".
View attachment 2171458

This cost 130$ (and the artist literally disappeared and refused to answer messages, so I'm lucky it was even sent to me):
View attachment 2171466


My first loves are pixel art games and 2D though. Honestly, there are so many draw backs to working with artists that I don't think I ever will again if I can help it. That's not to say all artists are bad people, but they have a reputation of being difficult to work with for a reason. All artists seem to have one quality in common, they are emotional which leads to great degrees of self expression. On the flip side, this also makes them fickle. That means the slightest thing will often turn them off to working with you. The irony is, if you're paying them - managing their mood and motivation should not be a factor in whether they can complete their work.

But, it usually is.

In the case of Heavenly Peaks, I paid the artist his asked rates + 20% project profits for a lifetime. It still wasn't enough.

P.S.
I will have my own anime one day.
Is it really more expensive to outsource 2D art vs 3D art? Like from what I saw, 3D artists ask for 3-5ish USD per render, so ten renders would cost as much as less expensive character art (with some extra costs if it has different clothes and expressions or poses). So the real question is the requirements for a number of backgrounds, characters, and CGs, but if you can re-use them effectively, it might cost a lot less than hundreds of renders per release. And I'd argue it is also more dangerous if 3D artist ghosts you. But I think we might be getting off-topic here.
 

Gwedelino

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This cost 130$ (and the artist literally disappeared and refused to answer messages, so I'm lucky it was even sent to me):
View attachment 2171466
[/QUOTE]

I'm a bit off-topic here but 130 $ is incredibly cheap for what you got.
 

GrumpyGranny

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Personally I feel having a 3D model is much less cost intensive. Once it's made, you just need to rig and animate it. Then you import it into your project. Once you make all the animations you need, then the work is done.

From that point on, you can swap out models freely with minimal work so yea,it's much less expensive working with 3D assets as opposed to 2D.

You don't really have to pay anyone to do renders also, (I've actually never heard of that before). Which programs are they using for this?
Based on what I saw in the recruitment section, the demand is mostly for DAZ. Sometimes skills in ZBrush or Blender are required as well.
 

Gwedelino

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Is it really more expensive to outsource 2D art vs 3D art? Like from what I saw, 3D artists ask for 3-5ish USD per render, so ten renders would cost as much as less expensive character art (with some extra costs if it has different clothes and expressions or poses). So the real question is the requirements for a number of backgrounds, characters, and CGs, but if you can re-use them effectively, it might cost a lot less than hundreds of renders per release. And I'd argue it is also more dangerous if 3D artist ghosts you. But I think we might be getting off-topic here.
I'm giving you the references I have regarding 2D art. This is the average price you're expected to pay if you want "decent" 2d art.

It doesn't mean you won't find cheaper artworks with good quality of course, but that would be harder to find and also less optimal for a long time collaboration as money is of course the primary motivator.

Background : At least 100 $

Characters sprites : At least 50 $ + at least 5$/10$ for each variation.

Scenes : Around 200 $ for a 2 characters picture and a complex background. Add around 100 $ for each additional character.

Price for the last one can vary a lot.
 

Deleted member 5189987

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I agree with Gwedelino. I pay around $120 per full colour scene, including background. Good art is expensive, but worth it. The more realistic, the more expensive it is. Compared to other artists, mine is even "cheap" compared to his skill level.
 
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GrumpyGranny

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I'm giving you the references I have regarding 2D art. This is the average price you're expected to pay if you want "decent" 2d art.

It doesn't mean you won't find cheaper artworks with good quality of course, but that would be harder to find and also less optimal for a long time collaboration as money is of course the primary motivator.

Background : At least 100 $

Characters sprites : At least 50 $ + at least 5$/10$ for each variation.

Scenes : Around 200 $ for a 2 characters picture and a complex background. Add around 100 $ for each additional character.

Price for the last one can vary a lot.
I know, these are pretty much my prices as well, haha. But anyway, my point is that if you are paying for art, it really depends on how many renders you need vs how many backgrounds / characters / CGs you need. Let's say you use school environment slice of life game with a few characters, if you don't need that many CGs, after the initial "investment" you can go a long way with what you have. Of course, it doesn't apply to every game.
 

Gwedelino

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I wonder how many people complaining about abandoned games donated in more than 5$ ( if that ) to the development of the game....
I bet not many.
I'm pretty sure the adult game market on F95 is exactly like the Free to play game market : only a handful of players are paying for a big majority of free players.

Same can be said for people that complain on the forum too. They are a big minority. I'm willing to think most of F95 users never post messages on it. They just download and leave.