Does anyone know if any planned content for maybe more combat, the men keep looking down on my poor mc eventually could I kick someones ass to prove them shes just as good- well just prove herself or sum, bastards wanna throat punch some of em!
HTML Inner Empire [v1.7] [Defiant Explorer]
- Jan 19, 2023
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here, i hacked dev's computer and found this scene for the hunters in the next build
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- Nov 11, 2020
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Let be honest, you play a young woman in a ancient world, in a society where women don't fight (like almost all societies in our real world at the time). You don't play some sort of Xena or Red Sonja.
You didn't receive any fighting training, have no armor, and at best have a bronze dagger... or your bare hand.
Maybe, Defiant Explorer has some "amazon path" in mind where Selene could become a real warrior in the future. Or at least learn to be a more capable fighter. But for now, you wouldn't have a lot of chance in a real fight.
Still there are a few situations required brute force.
But I don't think Selene will ever become a true fighter. So if you want to play some badass girl who kick warriors and monsters ass by the dozen, I fear this isn't the game. Still the game is good, and I think Selene could become more powerful that as she start.
About game mechanism, there is no randomize check.
When a check is required, you succeed if you have enough point in the attribute tested. Or if you can invested enough insight point to overcome you weak attribute.
An example :
Let say you're alone in the wood and some nasty beast is on your path.
The game present some options to overcome the situation:
- Try to run in the opposite direction.
- Try to sneak around
- Vigor 4 - Try to fight it
If you have less, you can't. Unless you spend some insight point to get temporary (for that check only!) to match the requirement. So if your Selene has only Vigor 2, you will need to spend 2 insight points to match the Vigor 4 requirement.
- Sep 2, 2017
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Oh, looks like people have already answered everything. Well then, no excuses, back to work.
Yea im not expecting to become a Amazonian woman or sum like that, just able to defend myself somewhat, multiple things a medieveal woman could do, archery etc or with a dagger, ofc a full blown warrior would prob kick the girls ass most of the time her being untrained etc, you can take spartan woman for an example the girls were strong asf and respected, dont gotta go full out super badass, just in her own way for a woman back then.
(also somehow said my piece twice whoops.)
I know not expecting a full badass woman or nothing just able to defend herself somewhat, you can take spartan woman for an example most were strong maybe not warriors but there multiple paths you can take with it, like archery or a more finesse in combat her being weaker, obviously she wont be as strong but she should be able to learn if chosen to defend herself in my op with all the combat stats there is maybe (Yut) can show some tricks or sum, multiple different warrior woman in the past, doesnt need to be a 'true' warrior path she could just be quick with a dagger with preciseness etc, hopefully that makes sense, I know she wont be running around with a guts sword etc, but having combat stats and then getting her ass beat by every male if you full blown point into them will be a really disappointing future in my op, love the game so far though. (also not right away cause like you said shes not a warrior so, but she should be able to learn a few tricks etc to somewhat stand a chance against atleast some males.)
(also somehow said my piece twice whoops.)
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- Sep 2, 2017
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Even if Selene does get some combat training, it's unlikely to be in the early part of the story. And there's not much else I can say but just smile mysteriously.
I understand and thats awesome thanks! love you~
There is like three episodes where combat ability comes in play in some form. One is where Selene is scripted to lose because winning means ending the game. One is against animals and is not much of a fight. And one is a pretend/mock fighting as a prelude to sex.
Wouldn't a bow, in a setting with bronze age tech, be a horrible choice for a teenage girl? We're talking a non-compound piece of wood of a comparable density/flexibility to yew. If you want to use that with enough force to kill someone, our poor Selene wouldn't be able to manage the draw-weight. Not to mention protect the string and arrows against exposure given her current lack of resources.
I fully admit that a narrow bronze dagger, maybe hidden up a sleeve (if we even get clothes again), would be a good choice. Preferably if you can smear the blade with dino venom so you only need to scratch a would-be rapist before he is paralyzed.
Otherwise my money would be on a spear. Comparably cheap, easy to craft and use untrained compared to other options. And much safer for a physically weaker combatant like Selene.
Edit: Or the dev. could introduce more alchemical items. Like maybe a sleeping powder or some hallucinogenic spores you can throw in the face of an enemy to neutralize them. It's not DnD, they don't have any loot or xp so no reason to kill everything. Just get away with your modesty intact (lol, too late).
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Note that you don't necessarily need to kill someone to discourage them from attacking further. Getting a few arrows in the gut and realizing that hey, you're fucking bleeding and potentially to death, too, can be a showstopper in its own right.
edit: also, recurve and composite bows date back to well within bronze age and can deliver quite more punch. So even Selene would probably be ok.
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Ohh I agree, they absolutely do. And that has nothing to do with my point. But no matter, this is not a threat for discussing bronze age weaponry
And in any case, it's a fantasy world with venomous dinosaurs. Maybe alchemically treated horn and glue in this world can build and store energy by itself? Who knows!
Bow is notably poor self-defense weapon for rather obvious reasons - you do not carry them strung. Video games lie to you all.
- Sep 2, 2017
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Oh, no, no, no! Please continue! You think it's easy to think about abstract things on your own and convince yourself that you're not crazy, speculating about what might be in “this fictional world”.But no matter, this is not a threat for discussing bronze age weaponry
Actually, I think compound bows are in there. Another matter is that they are more likely to be glued together from different woods and bones rather than steel inserts. After all, there's a huge chunk of the continent occupied by the Nomadic World (only its most southeastern edge is on the map). And the nomadic lifestyle is very conducive to some technologies, though it hinders most others, but bows are not one of them.
You also have to take into account that technological development is not evenly distributed. Fully in the Iron Age is only the northern archipelago. Bone, bronze (and compound bows) in the Nomadic World to the south of them. Predominantly Bronze Age with a transition to the Iron Age in the so-called "Civilized Realms" (eastern and central part of the continent, the game's place of action). And something like, um, Wooden Age (???) in the Endless Forests territory south of the White Sand Desert. After all, those forests are... well, not forests at all. Not in the usual sense of the word. And that mysterious “green haze” (mentioned in Sargon's book at the very beginning, in the part about Saranura) is there for a reason. It's secreted by these "trees". Cools the air. Out in the open in that region, a person would just roast to death.
P.S. And don't forget that dude from Nemeda! He invented distillation and now sells local "vodka" (erm, sort of, but looks, smells and hit in the head pretty much close). Who knows what else they've invented, huh?
- Nov 11, 2020
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OK, you ask for it!
So, about Selene using a bow, it's really a myth that a bow is a weapon which can be used by a rather weak person (like a woman).
Stringing a bow (a "real" one, able to do real damage to a foe, not a 20lbs recreational one) requires quite a bit of strength.
And a lot of practice to be accurate.
For a woman who isn't an Amazon like warrior, a easier shooting weapon would be a crossbow.
But it's definitively not a bronze age weapon.
On second thought, a sling could be a very good weapon. Will fit in the bronze age era, easy to conceal, certainly far less costly than a crossbow or bow, and still rather effective. I think it will require less strength than a bow. But still a lot of practice to be accurate.
For a melee weapon, I agree with CarlH, a spear would be a good choice.
Except I'm not sure it is accepted in this world that a woman walks armed with an obvious weapon. It's seem to be a very patriarchal society, not sure armed women are welcome...
So, maybe a quarterstaff? Can pass for a walking stick. But will probably required more training than a spear.
In last resort, a dagger would be handy (my Vagrant Selene agree
).So, Selene must find some kind of sensai to teach her how to proper use a sling and a quarterstaff
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- Sep 2, 2017
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Yep, and you yourself answered why:OK, you ask for it!
So, about Selene using a bow, it's really a myth that a bow is a weapon which can be used by a rather weak person (like a woman).
Absolutely. Muscle mass is essential. It's very, very game convention to have bows depend solely on agility.
Crossbows, if I'm not mistaken, were mentioned as far back as the Three Kingdoms (China). And that's before our era. And not just crossbows, but also multi-shot crossbows capable of firing several times.
So there may not be steel as such in the game world yet, but there is meteoric iron, locally very pure, though insanely expensive. There could be alloys flexible enough for a structure like a crossbow. But who would have invented such a thing among the local peoples? Well, the Inuatarians could. Those guys love to construct.
Firing our hypothetical crossbow wouldn't require strength, but loading it probably would. I mean, it makes sense.
Yeah, good choice. The only thing left is to explain to the guardians of the cities why a woman with a spear is roaming the streets. However, it doesn't matter whether it's a woman or a man, carrying weapons in the cities of the Republic is forbidden, unless they are soldiers, guards, nobles' guards, and probably jumper hunters. Though why would the latter be wandering around the cities in full armor? Jumpers don't show their snouts into towns.
Slings are a great idea and can be used a bit like a ball and chain in a pinch; they do take a bit of space to swing so if the troupe may want have a weapon to fire from a boarded up wagon they might build an atlatl. Depending on size of the lever arm and the user they fire darts to spears size missiles and have been used since the stone age.
You can also shank the fuck out of someone with one of those darts.
You can also shank the fuck out of someone with one of those darts.
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If it's a myth then how comes about half of current practitioners of traditional Japanese archery (i.e. using bows which date back to antiquity design-wise) are women? If it was a myth then they should be physically incapable of doing so, and yet
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. And note, they're far from "Amazon like warriors".Men have advantage of upper body strength but it doesn't mean women have complete disability in this regard. Especially when you consider the story allows Selene to have enough strength --with high Vigor-- to just pick up and carry an unconscious man quite larger than herself.
(to be fair, the bows in question *are* pretty light, with typical draw strength of some 40-80lbs, sometimes less. They are not war bows intended to punch through armor. But like mentioned before, it's not necessarily about firing arrows that will instantly kill a man on the spot. Plus, heck, apparently even 60'ish lbs can be enough to penetrate poor iron armor if you fire from close enough: 10-15 meters which isn't exactly close for your melee opponent)
It's also not something that has to be done solely by the archer themselves. In fact, historical eastern sources grade bows quite literally by how many men it'd take to string one -- e.g. "3 men bow" or even "5 men bow" at the upper end.
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- Jan 19, 2023
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isn't the thing about women being too weak to shoot a "real" bow about english longbowmen specifically (who had to beat late medieval armor)? like the ubiquitous in medieval and fantasy talks quarterstaff that no self-respecting wizard would be seen without being an english weapon.
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Oh boy, historical warfare discussion – so I have to comment. Maybe I can help clear up some things.
CarlH
ffive
I disagree though that they „deliver quite more punch“. Their shorter limbs are advantageous in regards to transmitting force to the arrow but the effect is quite neglible. I'd say it translates to maybe 5 % more punch compared to a self bow of the same draw weight. On the other hand, longbows generally came at higher draw weights than shortbows – perhaps because it's easier to make them (just make the limbs thicker) compared to short (composite) bows where various materials have to be glued together. Or maybe because shortbows were made with being shot from horseback in mind, which is harder.
cd13
Defiant Explorer
damnedfrog
With crossbows, she'd have the same problem. In my experience, the draw weight of a typical crossbow is way too much for the average woman.
Sling could be an option but I wouldn't consider it „very good“. Inherent accuracy is considerably lower than a bow so it requires even more practise and range is quite poor without the necessary strength.
Honestly, I think dagger it is – for the purposes Selene will most likely need it.
Defiant Explorer
Three Kingdoms would be third century AD but somehow I always imagined Inner Empire playing roughly in the late Mycenean / Greek dark age era, i. e. 1300-800 BC (although more medieval in terms of architecture & society).
ffive
On a side note, regarding the whole armor thing: Generally speaking, arrows don't pierce armor. You're probably referring to tests made using modern replicas made from cheap sheet metal. Historically, penetrating armor wasn't really a thing though. Chainmail is immune to common broadheads and can only be pierced by bodkin arrows, although the chance of penetration - let alone inflicting a substantial injury - is still greatly diminished (see Arab accounts of chainmail-clad crusaders charging them while looking like hedgehogs). Plate armour (certainly hardened plate) is basically immune to any kind of arrow fire because you can't physically produce enough force to destroy it. A cuirass has much more and stiffer mass than an arrow and even if you use a 150 lbs longbow, you're still bottlenecked by the arrow's wooden shaft which will break upon impact, dissipating its force. Plus, armour was typically made of high quality steel whereas arrow tips were made of scrap metal. I think crossbow bolts fare a bit better at punching through chainmail but even though they have thicker shafts, they suffer from the same problem of wood vs. steel and lacking mass.
Now in regards to Inner Empire, we've got the special bronze/iron age situation. Whereas bronze helmets and cuirasses were a thing, most arrowheads were still made out of flintstone. And the same logic goes for the early iron age: While the precious iron was reserved for weapons and other valuable items, arrowheads were still made out of more readily available bronze for a long time – or even still flintstone. (I'm referring to 1200-800 BC Europe here)
CarlH
You mean „composite“, i. e. bows made from composite materials. Compound bows are a modern invention using pulleys to reduce draw weight.
Yes, but it should be noted that spears in general aren't very good weapons for dueling / self defense against an armed opponent. The longer the spear, the unwieldier and the easier it is for the opponent to deflect & get behind the only dangerous part of the weapon – and the shorter the spear, the less it makes up for Selene's inherent reach disadvantage, defeating its purpose.
ffive
Very good point and that's exactly how archers were primarily used: As support units to hinder, disrupt and weaken the enemy. Even at Crecy, the English longbowmen didn't outright kill the French knights but blunted their charge by injuring their horses thus getting them bogged down in the muddy terrain.
The terms „Recurve bow“, „composite bow“ and „shortbow“ are all pretty much synonymous. One describes the shape, the second the materials and the third... is obvious.
I disagree though that they „deliver quite more punch“. Their shorter limbs are advantageous in regards to transmitting force to the arrow but the effect is quite neglible. I'd say it translates to maybe 5 % more punch compared to a self bow of the same draw weight. On the other hand, longbows generally came at higher draw weights than shortbows – perhaps because it's easier to make them (just make the limbs thicker) compared to short (composite) bows where various materials have to be glued together. Or maybe because shortbows were made with being shot from horseback in mind, which is harder.
cd13
Generally speaking, it isn't a problem to carry a strung bow around all day. The weakening effect only really sets in when you leave it strung for several days - especially if it's being exposed to the elements. (With composite bows being more prone to weather effects than self bows, I guess)
Defiant Explorer
Jup, steel inserts aren't a thing. Side note: Crossbows with steel limbs is also something video games lie about: Steel prods (arbalests) weren't really a thing until the very end of the middle ages as they required a cranequin to be loaded and their greater strength was diminished by the shorter draw length. Common medieval crossbows with cocking stirrup would generally have a composite bow.
damnedfrog
There are certainly examples of professional female warriors using bows, particularly in nomadic cultures, e. g. Thracians, Scythians etc. For the scenario, if Selene somehow gets access to a random bow, I'd say it should depend on her vigor if she can attempt shooting it. If it happens to be a hunting bow on the lower end (35-40 lbs.) and Selene has high vigor from carrying around those goods at the trading post, I'd give her a shot.
With crossbows, she'd have the same problem. In my experience, the draw weight of a typical crossbow is way too much for the average woman.
Sling could be an option but I wouldn't consider it „very good“. Inherent accuracy is considerably lower than a bow so it requires even more practise and range is quite poor without the necessary strength.
Honestly, I think dagger it is – for the purposes Selene will most likely need it.
Defiant Explorer
Three Kingdoms would be third century AD but somehow I always imagined Inner Empire playing roughly in the late Mycenean / Greek dark age era, i. e. 1300-800 BC (although more medieval in terms of architecture & society).
ffive
Well, showing pictures of the bows doesn't say anything about their draw weight – and you already admitted that they don't really range in the spectrum of historical war bows. On the other hand – as stated above – I agree that shooting a bow just requires a strong woman, not one with superhuman strength. I guess if Selene finds the right bow for her, it might be useful. Although keep in mind that a bow is only useful if you see/hear your opponent coming. Otherwise she certainly won't have an arrow nocked and will need several seconds of calm before she has something to threaten her attacker with – in which case 10-15 meters will be VERY close. (Provided that she's even carrying around a strung bow to begin with...)
On a side note, regarding the whole armor thing: Generally speaking, arrows don't pierce armor. You're probably referring to tests made using modern replicas made from cheap sheet metal. Historically, penetrating armor wasn't really a thing though. Chainmail is immune to common broadheads and can only be pierced by bodkin arrows, although the chance of penetration - let alone inflicting a substantial injury - is still greatly diminished (see Arab accounts of chainmail-clad crusaders charging them while looking like hedgehogs). Plate armour (certainly hardened plate) is basically immune to any kind of arrow fire because you can't physically produce enough force to destroy it. A cuirass has much more and stiffer mass than an arrow and even if you use a 150 lbs longbow, you're still bottlenecked by the arrow's wooden shaft which will break upon impact, dissipating its force. Plus, armour was typically made of high quality steel whereas arrow tips were made of scrap metal. I think crossbow bolts fare a bit better at punching through chainmail but even though they have thicker shafts, they suffer from the same problem of wood vs. steel and lacking mass.
Now in regards to Inner Empire, we've got the special bronze/iron age situation. Whereas bronze helmets and cuirasses were a thing, most arrowheads were still made out of flintstone. And the same logic goes for the early iron age: While the precious iron was reserved for weapons and other valuable items, arrowheads were still made out of more readily available bronze for a long time – or even still flintstone. (I'm referring to 1200-800 BC Europe here)
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While exploring certain house we do in fact come across, shall we say, abandoned bow that belonged to a hunter, and Yuturna will potentially pick it up even though he already owns one. So i reckon we just might get to see that spare being put to some good use in the future installments.
I was referring to a case
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:Japanese war bows (and arrows) were in general made with the specific purpose of punching through armor when fired at very short distances, and as such they were quite capable of it. Though it should be noted that the armor in question wasn't generally full steel plate --which as you note is very much impervious-- but weaker protection worn by (peasant) infantry.
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