Others Insect Prison Remake [v1.0] [Eroism]

[OmegaLord]

Ok so was progressing in the game an afterthought? This is a serious question too.
I see no reasonable way to get the materials needed to make better equipment to actually even beat an encounter.
There are 4 things you can craft but god forbid it makes any real difference. Whip, bow, boomerang and if you can get the pickaxe a dagger.
Even with those fighting 3 beasts which I assume is where you get beast hide which you need for EVERY FUCKING THING ELSE!
I can take one down but no way I can take another down.

The grind is BS. Everything requires way too much of one type of material and its all fucking RNG in hopes of getting what you need.

Why even offer bandages? Another serious question. They are so useless at least skip turn is better as it brings the end about faster. Seriously they heal so little it's not worth using it on a turn.

God forbid there is any kind of explanation to combat. I'm guessing there is suppose to be some mechanic to it but due to how many fucking enemies you face in EVERY FUCKING ENCOUNTER god forbid you actually can figure out the difference in actions.

Is balance an actual concept even considered for this game or is it too much to consider?

I can seriously keep going as this is such a mess atm.

I hate only being negative but game mechanic wise I really have nothing good to say, the best of things are just acceptable.

Art style and H scenes are a different thing. They are very well drawn and interesting. But it's not enough to overlook how bad all the rest is.

I had a literal epiphany thinking about the game. Not one aspect is not designed without grind... I did not even realise that was possible to do but somehow you did it... Congrats?

Things to seriously look at changing

-Add explanation to game mechanics, don't make the player figure out everything themselves.
--Combat: what the difference between fast and heavy attacks, how does parry work.
--Lewdness / Lust: As far as I can figure you have to get screwed 6 times just to make 1 stone which you still have to fucking pay for at a high rate. The shop girl talks about lust which does fuck all for the stones. Make it clear and don't have multiple grinds for one thing.

-Costs of things, you need to figure out if you want RNG drops and lower cost or dedicated ways (as in if I do said task I get X item not chance of) of obtaining items and keeping the higher cost.
--Lewd shop items are far too high priced for the multiple kinds of grind needed (3 different grinds is pure BS) the fact there is only so many types of encounters makes this much worse to sit through.

-Better communication, if I search an area and I get "There's Nothing Here" should not be the a catchall. If the search failed it should say "Did not find anything", if you can find a hidden path but can't find any materials give a hint to that "Nothing here, maybe if I find a new area", if you need an item to find the new area "seems there is something more but don't have what I need", if there really is nothing there remove the ability to explore. I've used 3 in game days exploring cliffside with nothing to come of it. Respect your players time.

-Get rid of the weather system. Why introduce ways to make a grind even worse.

-Combat is a mess. It needs a rework so that people actually have a way to progress besides luck or complete grind to get the premium shop stuff.
--Random number of enemies in a fight so that new players have encounters they have an actual chance to wind and get drops is one way.
-- Make different areas where you have designated difficulty so players can go to one area and have easier fights while another will be harder. Ex: Forest will have beasts with 1 while if you go to let's say Deep Forest you will have fights with 3 beasts.
-- Make clear distinction between different enemies. Wharf Roach and Wharf Roach G should not look the fucking same! Adding a single letter but the same image will have players thinking it's an easy fight. Change the colour so it is distinct, don't just change it a little where you can tell the difference side by side by so you can tell when they are not side by side. Such as the normal ones are tan/brown in colour while the G one can stay the same reddish/purple.
The text at the start is not sufficient when it looks like the same enemy.

This can be a great game, but it needs serious refinement to the game play. I'm not a person who is against grind, the problem is most people don't understand how to utilise it properly. If there is going to be grind the payout MUST be worth it.
All early weapons are a grind, then you get them, nothing changes... Is the grind worth that? The player needs to feel that progress is being made or has been rewarded with something they are after (H scene).

Oh and to be clear, having explanations outside of the game is not acceptable, it does not mean it needs to be shoved in the players face in game but they should be able find the information for the game inside the game itself.

 

[Monki0]

Ok so was progressing in the game an afterthought? This is a serious question too.
I see no reasonable way to get the materials needed to make better equipment to actually even beat an encounter.
There are 4 things you can craft but god forbid it makes any real difference. Whip, bow, boomerang and if you can get the pickaxe a dagger.
Even with those fighting 3 beasts which I assume is where you get beast hide which you need for EVERY FUCKING THING ELSE!
I can take one down but no way I can take another down.

The grind is BS. Everything requires way too much of one type of material and its all fucking RNG in hopes of getting what you need.

Why even offer bandages? Another serious question. They are so useless at least skip turn is better as it brings the end about faster. Seriously they heal so little it's not worth using it on a turn.

God forbid there is any kind of explanation to combat. I'm guessing there is suppose to be some mechanic to it but due to how many fucking enemies you face in EVERY FUCKING ENCOUNTER god forbid you actually can figure out the difference in actions.

Is balance an actual concept even considered for this game or is it too much to consider?

I can seriously keep going as this is such a mess atm.

I hate only being negative but game mechanic wise I really have nothing good to say, the best of things are just acceptable.

Art style and H scenes are a different thing. They are very well drawn and interesting. But it's not enough to overlook how bad all the rest is.

I had a literal epiphany thinking about the game. Not one aspect is not designed without grind... I did not even realise that was possible to do but somehow you did it... Congrats?

Things to seriously look at changing

-Add explanation to game mechanics, don't make the player figure out everything themselves.
--Combat: what the difference between fast and heavy attacks, how does parry work.
--Lewdness / Lust: As far as I can figure you have to get screwed 6 times just to make 1 stone which you still have to fucking pay for at a high rate. The shop girl talks about lust which does fuck all for the stones. Make it clear and don't have multiple grinds for one thing.

-Costs of things, you need to figure out if you want RNG drops and lower cost or dedicated ways (as in if I do said task I get X item not chance of) of obtaining items and keeping the higher cost.
--Lewd shop items are far too high priced for the multiple kinds of grind needed (3 different grinds is pure BS) the fact there is only so many types of encounters makes this much worse to sit through.

-Better communication, if I search an area and I get "There's Nothing Here" should not be the a catchall. If the search failed it should say "Did not find anything", if you can find a hidden path but can't find any materials give a hint to that "Nothing here, maybe if I find a new area", if you need an item to find the new area "seems there is something more but don't have what I need", if there really is nothing there remove the ability to explore. I've used 3 in game days exploring cliffside with nothing to come of it. Respect your players time.

-Get rid of the weather system. Why introduce ways to make a grind even worse.

-Combat is a mess. It needs a rework so that people actually have a way to progress besides luck or complete grind to get the premium shop stuff.
--Random number of enemies in a fight so that new players have encounters they have an actual chance to wind and get drops is one way.
-- Make different areas where you have designated difficulty so players can go to one area and have easier fights while another will be harder. Ex: Forest will have beasts with 1 while if you go to let's say Deep Forest you will have fights with 3 beasts.
-- Make clear distinction between different enemies. Wharf Roach and Wharf Roach G should not look the fucking same! Adding a single letter but the same image will have players thinking it's an easy fight. Change the colour so it is distinct, don't just change it a little where you can tell the difference side by side by so you can tell when they are not side by side. Such as the normal ones are tan/brown in colour while the G one can stay the same reddish/purple.
The text at the start is not sufficient when it looks like the same enemy.

This can be a great game, but it needs serious refinement to the game play. I'm not a person who is against grind, the problem is most people don't understand how to utilise it properly. If there is going to be grind the payout MUST be worth it.
All early weapons are a grind, then you get them, nothing changes... Is the grind worth that? The player needs to feel that progress is being made or has been rewarded with something they are after (H scene).

Oh and to be clear, having explanations outside of the game is not acceptable, it does not mean it needs to be shoved in the players face in game but they should be able find the information for the game inside the game itself.

Most of the complains you have are true and already discussed. Starting out your best bet is always run away before you craft the dagger. Or you become a total slut and have lots of sex to buy Erocrystal gear in the shop. Both involve grinding. Material cost of gear as well as weather effects are reviewed at a later release.

There is a combat system. One action cancels enemies actions. There is a picture chart some pages back which Eroism wanted to include in every download. He must have forgotten to add it though. Eroism said that Combat is hard by design and it isn't balanced yet properly. I agree that there should be more mechanic explanations in the game.

Drop chance was also discussed and in the next release mobs will always drop loot.

 

[TheFakeOne23]

I might not feel AS extreme about it, but as far as difficulty and resources go I kinda agree with him, just to a lesser degree. To summarize my thoughts broadly:

Combat: Bandages DO feel weak, and are fairly easily outdamaged by most encounters, unless you´ve already killed half the enemies, which in itself is a challenge, ESPECIALLY before getting good gear.
Defensive actions seem wasteful despite the theoretically good rock<paper<scissors system, since you´re likely to be barraged by several different actions, or straight up waste a turn if no enemy picks the "right" attack action.
The action economy in combat is simply too tilted in favor of the enemy side. My suggestion would be to reduce enemies, or create a "Do nothing" (Or something similar) action for enemies that is more likely to trigger the more enemies there were.

Resource areas/Crafting: I´d very much suggest making it possible to search for specific materials, maybe not guaratee a material, but at least raise the odds for it.
Cliffside (At least for now) really shouldn´t have the explore button.
Most recepies are fine, though some of the consumables might be a bit too costly, especially the incense.
Sidenote, the shop, not sure if I was just unlucky, or it´s not unlocked until later, but at day 33 I still hadn´t found it. Maybe make it easier to find?
Also I kinda like the idea of breaking areas up into multiple parts such as forest border, forest and deep forest, it´d make the island feel bigger without needing to make new enemies, it would also allow to make weighted resource tables for each area to allow searching for specific materials, continuing the example: increased chance for herbs in the outskirts, wood in the middle and vine &/or bugshrooms in the deep part. Most if not all areas could benefit from this.

Most other stuff I find to be minor but acceptable annoyances, neutral or things I like.

 

[OmegaLord]

Most of the complains you have are true and already discussed. Starting out your best bet is always run away before you craft the dagger. Or you become a total slut and have lots of sex to buy Erocrystal gear in the shop. Both involve grinding. Material cost of gear as well as weather effects are reviewed at a later release.

There is a combat system. One action cancels enemies actions. There is a picture chart some pages back which Eroism wanted to include in every download. He must have forgotten to add it though. Eroism said that Combat is hard by design and it isn't balanced yet properly. I agree that there should be more mechanic explanations in the game.

Drop chance was also discussed and in the next release mobs will always drop loot.

Honestly I cant help but look at it as nothing more than a joke.
At this moment I don't think I'm gonna touch it again as I have tried to keep playing to see if it get better but just had a moment that possibly sealed the deal for me. Went to save and clicked title button... yep and I had about 15 days of progress just up and poof including getting a little bit more gear. I've played for at least 4h real time.

All the fun and interest is just sucked right out of the game.
I honestly don't know what's better for the dev, fix up what they have here or restart from the ground up. The core is alright but how much work there is to change what needs to be and not make it more of a mess by missing things...

 

[shiqz]

Honestly I cant help but look at it as nothing more than a joke.
At this moment I don't think I'm gonna touch it again as I have tried to keep playing to see if it get better but just had a moment that possibly sealed the deal for me. Went to save and clicked title button... yep and I had about 15 days of progress just up and poof including getting a little bit more gear. I've played for at least 4h real time.

All the fun and interest is just sucked right out of the game.
I honestly don't know what's better for the dev, fix up what they have here or restart from the ground up. The core is alright but how much work there is to change what needs to be and not make it more of a mess by missing things...

You would have done good by reading this Post and the next after that, would've saved your 4 hours of your lifetime.

 

[OmegaLord]

You would have done good by reading this Post and the next after that, would've saved your 4 hours of your lifetime.

I didn't loose all 4h, that's just the total time I played. I lost about 1h though.
I hope you see the issue of NEEDING to read through a thread before playing.
I can understand reading the OP post with Dev notes and that. That is reasonable.

 

[Monki0]

I might not feel AS extreme about it, but as far as difficulty and resources go I kinda agree with him, just to a lesser degree. To summarize my thoughts broadly:

Combat: Bandages DO feel weak, and are fairly easily outdamaged by most encounters, unless you´ve already killed half the enemies, which in itself is a challenge, ESPECIALLY before getting good gear.
Defensive actions seem wasteful despite the theoretically good rock<paper<scissors system, since you´re likely to be barraged by several different actions, or straight up waste a turn if no enemy picks the "right" attack action.
The action economy in combat is simply too tilted in favor of the enemy side. My suggestion would be to reduce enemies, or create a "Do nothing" (Or something similar) action for enemies that is more likely to trigger the more enemies there were.

Resource areas/Crafting: I´d very much suggest making it possible to search for specific materials, maybe not guaratee a material, but at least raise the odds for it.
Cliffside (At least for now) really shouldn´t have the explore button.
Most recepies are fine, though some of the consumables might be a bit too costly, especially the incense.
Sidenote, the shop, not sure if I was just unlucky, or it´s not unlocked until later, but at day 33 I still hadn´t found it. Maybe make it easier to find?
Also I kinda like the idea of breaking areas up into multiple parts such as forest border, forest and deep forest, it´d make the island feel bigger without needing to make new enemies, it would also allow to make weighted resource tables for each area to allow searching for specific materials, continuing the example: increased chance for herbs in the outskirts, wood in the middle and vine &/or bugshrooms in the deep part. Most if not all areas could benefit from this.

Most other stuff I find to be minor but acceptable annoyances, neutral or things I like.

Like I said to the other guy before, the issues are aknowledged by Eroism and are planned to be fixed in a coming release. Keep in mind that this game is still unfinished but already lightyears better than the original game this remake is based on. Eroism is no AAA game developer either but shows incredible work ethic. He made a mistake that caused to corrupt save files with the latest release, but found and fixed the bug within a day. He releases content far more frequently than other Devs here, without milking his player base. The reason it is still rough around the edges is that it's been that way in the original game and he moved away from it and built his own combat system only recently. It needs some trial and error before the feels fine.

My hopes are pretty high for this game and I can't wait to see what's still to come.

 

[eroism]

I didn't loose all 4h, that's just the total time I played. I lost about 1h though.
I hope you see the issue of NEEDING to read through a thread before playing.
I can understand reading the OP post with Dev notes and that. That is reasonable.

I appreciate your feedback and understand your gripe with the combat specifically. My intent was to make it borderline doable without equipment and ease it up as you equip better and more items. This game is also a remake of Mushi no Kangoku and not something designed from the ground up, so my main goal is to reintroduce the original game in an improved format to the best of my abilities, which binds me to work with the original mechanics the most I can, otherwise I would be better off doing an original game, but that is not the point of this project.

For the explanation of the combat, there is a guide on the game's itch page at

You must be registered to see the links

and there is information about the actions in the "About" section of the title screen on the tutorial. I recognize that I forgot to add the info about the new Seduce action in version 0.80, so I'll have to revise the information for the next version.

RNG and Grind are hard rooted to the core of the original game, I can soften and increase their odds in the player's favor, but it is something that I have to work with and improve, making it too easy will also makes the game too fast and finding the balance is the challenge that must be met.

Having said this, keep sharing your thoughts and suggestions in the thread, I take into consideration everything that is shared in order to improve the feel of the mechanics .

 

[OmegaLord]

I appreciate your feedback and understand your gripe with the combat specifically. My intent was to make it borderline doable without equipment and ease it up as you equip better and more items. This game is also a remake of Mushi no Kangoku and not something designed from the ground up, so my main goal is to reintroduce the original game in an improved format to the best of my abilities, which binds me to work with the original mechanics the most I can, otherwise I would be better off doing an original game, but that is not the point of this project.

For the explanation of the combat, there is a guide on the game's itch page at

You must be registered to see the links

and there is information about the actions in the "About" section of the title screen on the tutorial. I recognize that I forgot to add the info about the new Seduce action in version 0.80, so I'll have to revise the information for the next version.

RNG and Grind are hard rooted to the core of the original game, I can soften and increase their odds in the player's favor, but it is something that I have to work with and improve, making it too easy will also makes the game too fast and finding the balance is the challenge that must be met.

Having said this, keep sharing your thoughts and suggestions in the thread, I take into consideration everything that is shared in order to improve the feel of the mechanics .

I'm gonna ask you a question. Why does this require a remake?
I understand the prior engine was a mess but a good game can overcome that.
If the game is not that good why stick closely to it?

I can respect wanting to stay true to the previous game, but why must flaws be copied? The spirit of the game should be what you want to copy and sticking mostly with the style. Does not mean bad elements can't be changed or removed.

RNG and Grind are tools used to augment systems, they should not be the primary system and they should only sparingly be used both at the same time.
The core element of them both is increase time it takes to achieve a goal. If your talking about making the ULTIMATE item that is a case where it can be acceptable so long as that item is worth it. They should not both be used for everything.

The fact that at 4h I'm only sometimes winning the easiest fight is a major issue with the game.

I checked out the combat remake image. I'm more convinced it's a joke at this point. It's good when you have one or two opponents as you can at least go for a neutral action. Groups like 90% of all encounters are will just destroy the player as any action they take it will be detrimental to at least one enemy and neutral to two others.

If I am understanding what you did as well you must hate people who use ranged attacks. Ranged weapons have lower attack power increase to begin with but then you say they only deal 80% damage on top...

You say you want the game to be hard, you have failed. Easy and Hard can only be determined to a players actions, you have removed this and it all falls to a players luck against RNG.

I have a question, is the game hard for you? If the answer is yes let that sink in. You who know everything about the mechanics of the game have a hard time what hope do others have? More so when the information to their questions are not inside the game, they have to go outside of it.

If you want to stick with the current combat system you are going to have to reduce the number of combatants in an encounter for the early areas.

Wanting players to play your game a lot is a fine sentiment. But thinking that the longer they play makes a good game is wrong. The game is not fun, at all.

What reward is there for players to try to win a fight or improve their equipment? Seriously, upgrading equipment does not do much at all from the little I've been able to see and it only leads to more grinding for what?

I've said it before if your gonna have grind the reward MUST be worth the time invested, more grind is not a reward.

 

[TheFakeOne23]

Like I said to the other guy before, the issues are aknowledged by Eroism and are planned to be fixed in a coming release. Keep in mind that this game is still unfinished but already lightyears better than the original game this remake is based on. Eroism is no AAA game developer either but shows incredible work ethic. He made a mistake that caused to corrupt save files with the latest release, but found and fixed the bug within a day. He releases content far more frequently than other Devs here, without milking his player base. The reason it is still rough around the edges is that it's been that way in the original game and he moved away from it and built his own combat system only recently. It needs some trial and error before the feels fine.

My hopes are pretty high for this game and I can't wait to see what's still to come.

Yeah, I fully agree. And what I wrote wasn´t me trying to say it´s bad or irreperable, I simply wanted to point out the parts I currently think might need a bit more attention, while also giving a suggestion about how I´d try to solve it.
If I sounded negative, that wasn´t my intention, and I very much tried not to be. My aim was to provide constructive criticism, and clarify my current thoughts on the game.

 

[EdogawaKonan]

such a request to the author of the game is to divide the release of the build into an exe file + a data file, maybe this will improve the speed of launching the game.
the executable file is larger than 1 GB, somehow not very.

 

[phamquocman1]

good

 

[Monki0]

Yeah, I fully agree. And what I wrote wasn´t me trying to say it´s bad or irreperable, I simply wanted to point out the parts I currently think might need a bit more attention, while also giving a suggestion about how I´d try to solve it.
If I sounded negative, that wasn´t my intention, and I very much tried not to be. My aim was to provide constructive criticism, and clarify my current thoughts on the game.

I didn't intend to sound rude or attack you. If I made that impression I apologize.

People here on F95 get under my skin lately. The entitlement of the people here is insane. And I don't mean you, but in general.

Somebody uploaded a 0.1 version of their game and gets 1 star bombed for "lack of content".

Other creators are flamed because they take too long to update their game which they work on after their 9to5 job in their free time. God forbid they have a life where they get sick or go on vacation.

Then there are people that want a polished perfectly bugfree AAA porn game they pirated here for free, but complain some features are locked behind a Patreon pay wall.

Then there are games far away from being finished, but there can't be any bugs in the incomplete game.. No way sir!


I am just venting obviously. I don't mean anybody specific here. Eroism seems like a decent guy with good work ethic that does his best to deliver, he and many other Devs don't deserve the crap entitled entities throw at them.

 

[ohwhatnow]

I'm gonna ask you a question. Why does this require a remake?

The original was borderline inaccessible. It ran on a very niche Japanese RPG engine called Cardwirth that was meant for making/trading scenarios and (I believe) being able to bring character sheets between them. This game had something like a 10-15 step long set of instructions to install the app, import the campaign, create the right character, and finally load her into the story. Oh, and the UI was like an outdated 90s application with pixelated Japanese that was hard to read. Given how often users fail with simple installations here it shouldn't be a surprise that a lot of people had trouble just getting to play it.

If nothing else just getting a no-fuss version of the game that works on most modern computers is a win. Preservation of a game with a pretty niche fetish is cool. (Seriously, thanks again eroism!)

 

[NightWolf69]

Just found the original game and saw that someone was remaking it (thank you), how much content does this have compared to the original? Does it have all the original content or are they still adding the base content to this?

 

[Balial42]

Just found the original game and saw that someone was remaking it (thank you), how much content does this have compared to the original? Does it have all the original content or are they still adding the base content to this?

More to come, but right now you get those different enemies/with some variant animations.

Edit: Check my save on page 26.

 

[eroism]

I'm gonna ask you a question. Why does this require a remake?
I understand the prior engine was a mess but a good game can overcome that.
If the game is not that good why stick closely to it?

Again, I understand your arguments and I think your feedback is just. The combat system is a toddler being built for 3 versions or so, it used to be worse, it is better now, maybe marginally, however any improvements are due to the feedback and shared opinions of those who played and shared their experience. When you develop for a while it becomes difficult to discern good and bad features to some degree without an external look.

Now, allow me to try and clarify a few points, because I think there may be some miscommunication or misinterpretation here.

Spoiler: Clarifications

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I'm utterly sorry for the wall of text, but thank you all that play the game, give me feedback regularly and support the project. I really appreciate all of you joining in this depraved adventure, initiated by Atella, with Leah and her ?reverse harem? of bugs .

EDIT: The wall of text was massive, moved it to a spoiler .

 

[eroism]

such a request to the author of the game is to divide the release of the build into an exe file + a data file, maybe this will improve the speed of launching the game.
the executable file is larger than 1 GB, somehow not very.

I can make a benchmark regarding this, but I'm afraid it won't make a noticeable difference in the loading of the game. The load time is mostly because all the scenes preload the sound effects on startup. and there are a few MBs of sound effects which take a bit to load due to OGG decoding.

I'll make a test when I have a chance to and check if it makes a noticeable difference.

Just found the original game and saw that someone was remaking it (thank you), how much content does this have compared to the original? Does it have all the original content or are they still adding the base content to this?

You can check the roadmap on Itch, but the summary would be that the game is "similar to the original" when it reaches version 1.0. The following should be the next versions (taken from the Itch page).

v0.85 - Slug encounter and scenes + Slug temptation scene
v0.90 - Egg Fly and Slug birth scenes + Assorted enhancements
v0.95 - Deeper Forest + Banana Tree + Banana Bug scene
v1.00 - Waterfall + Cicada scene (Original game's point)

 

[Lightning_Dragon]

Remember to give yourself a break my friend, it is because of your efforts that players from different countries of the world come together.

 

[OmegaLord]

Ok, well good luck with whatever you hope to build.
After playing the current version and listening to what is said, it's removed any doubt if this is worth checking back on.

I will say I understand the pressure to keep adding more, but you need to get what you have in order first.
Best wishes.