QSP Abandoned Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.2.3] [Old Huntsman + Community development]

[qwertyu12359]

I'm really not comfortable with the "Save is done automatically" Especially with the INSANE saving time that this game used to have.

I don't see how that can be an argument ^^ Saving is instantaneous now.

In my opinion, the idea of having a "flexible" difficulty settings is very neat:
-Do a bunch of different check box with different options into it so everybody can "create" their own most fitting experience.
-Then have a base "Easy, Normal, Hard" difficulty where you just switch from default some boxes and keep open the possibility to check some others to have a total custom difficulty.

Do you want an easy games? with limited saves? With only teen girls without loli and milf? You can do it!
Also, how many check boxes are we talking about?

I don't really like this option to be honest. Maybe it's just my personal opinion... But something that I really loved about this game, was the uniqueness of every slave: you really needed to "hunt" for a good slave with the right qualities... Which was actually kinda neat for me.

The idea of "everyone can be everything with a click" because we have "super science/magic" is kinda "meh" for me.. Cause would totally eliminate the part of "hard working" to find the right slave or to improve her stats.

I have no idea if things have changed or if the wiki is updated, but endurance was already possible to be improved. Of course... It was hard... But possible... And that's the whole point in my opinion.

Everyone can be everything with a click... and money. As I suggested, only one or two rank of endurance amelioration possible, and that reduces the beauty.

Having to hunt for a good slave is part of the game and we don't want to strip it. But we don't want a feeble slave to be useless or necessarily waste 20 days of training just to add a sufficient amount of energy stars to her.

I'm not personally a fan about cyborgs and I'm not sure if would fit the game, but that's just my opinion.

I think you forgot about that ^^

And by cyborg, I mean "normal human with normal appearance but mechanical organs". Like those:

Now I have a couple of advices:
This is my personal experience, but when I'm searching idea for new things I love to ask question to myself. In this case if we are talking about I game, I think it would help a lot to ask and focus on the right things.
-What is fun about this game? What does make it an unique and fun experience to play it?
-What is the setting and the "mood" of the game? Will this "idea x" add more to the experience? Or maybe it will ruin it?
-How the base mechanic works? Can I add this new system without breaking other systems? Will the new mechanics improve the general feeling of the game and will add more fun?

Adding things into a game is ALL about creating a fun and joyful experience for the player. That's why "more" doesn't meant "better". I will always remember CDPR answer on Witcher 2 Iron made mode and the removed option from wither 3: "While witcher 2 was a thing and it worked there, we don't trust Witcher 3's world enough too add the mechanic. (Bugs)"

Even is somethings looks cool on paper and it works on other games it doesn't mean that it will work in "game x" too.

Finally the last suggestion and almost a request: You guys are doing a GREAT and amazing work, period. You are dedicating your love to the game without asking anything for it, observing the resurrection of a modding community is always nice.
But, while modding a game, there are always things that can go Very right and very wrong... (the butchering of ALL the unique picture from 1.7.3 to 1.7.5... Cough.... cough).
This created a weird situation: You had a BAG filled with bug fixes and improvements that made the game better... and an mod that literally killed all the cool pics of the games and manage to uses just 40 50 pic in the whole folder while managing to go from 1gb to 5gb of files... Having hundred of unused pics for no apparent reason.
Here the player needed to chose: Do I want better porn with worst gameplay? Or Do I want better gameplay with worst porn?

By unique, you don't mean "each slave had a set of images that were set especially for her", do you? Because, that was never a thing.

But yes, 1.7.3 images were arguably a lot better than in 1.7.5. That's why I re-added them into 2.0.

And we'll be careful not sacrifice porn for gameplay. I'll personnaly be double-checking every art-adition to make sure that porn images never to get worse in terms of quality standard, from now on.

So here is the request/idea:
I have no idea on how the code of the game works, so I don't know if this is possibile.... BUT is possible to actually split things apart?
1 - Improved "vanilla" version of the game with bugs and generic add-on. (Bugs fix, Different quality of life improvements, pics, etc). This, will make everyone happy: their will be able to savor all of your works without fear of possibly unwanted new systems/overhaul of the game.
2 - A patch with the new experimental systems. This will keep the game progressing forward while the "safe" possibility to test the new system without fear of having a "2.2" release with a broken or new unfitting add-on.

This will make much easier too see what it works and what not, with the possibly to be added in the future to the base game... Or just keep it apart. Changing a lot of the base system can deeply modify the feeling of game.
Jack O nine "Original" by the author had a feeling. Jack O nine "Hongfire mod" Had a TOTAL different feeling. You could say almost "Jack o Nine" 2.0.
Now, I stilt had not chance to play your 2.1 version as my last was "1.7.5", but if you plan to keep adding stuff to the game this might slowly lead to a "3.0" version (considering the original version).
So that's why I'm proposing. Is it possible to split things out? For now I think that your version is a an "improved" version of 1.7.5 Which is great, but if things keep moving on and the system will get changed I think that it would be great to leave behind a 2.0 version of the game and start a 3.0 that will almost be a total different game while keeping the same name.

I hear what you say. That's like for Demon's Souls remake, people are rightfully afraid that any change made for the better will change the original aura of the game.

But I think there's no way--for time management sake, and readability of the version branches--that we're going to develop several different versions at once.

We're just going to go with our vision of what's the best for the game, while second guessing ourselves for every decisions, and never say no to rolling back changes that might have been "objectively" detrimental. We'll do our best to protect the game's legacy and not stripping the charm of it. And if some make fair points that some things were better in older versions, we'll consider bringing it back and cancelling our ideas that were good on paper (like the color overhaul I pushed for... as it is now, that was a mistake. But I'll work on it until it's perfect).

 

[Riujin]

But I think there's no way--for time management sake, and readability of the version branches--that we're going to develop several different versions at once.

Of course! Mine was mostly a suggestion, as I don't even know how the whole thing is working and how easy is to do it.
But, just to clarify, I was only talking about major changes of the system like the idea of adding a new possibilities to earn money that might change a lot of things. (if it's intended as a deep change, of course)

 

[Lokplart]

Riujin I understand your point of view but the idea of continuing to develop a finished game will always lead to changes from the original. In my opinion the mechanics are old, and not old good, but just old. Code wise, the fighting is done so that the game can have fighting. And most of the shops and NPCs are done so that the game has shops and NPCs.
You can strip this game down to the main player houses, the guild and a general store that sells all the items and you'll still have mostly the same game.

I'm probably the only one in the current dev team who's never played before 2.1. I did download 1.7.5 but I only looked at the art, and then I deleted it . So I have no nostalgia or attachment to any of the mechanics or things like that.

I strongly agree with you that there should not be the ability to make everyone into anything but I also acknowledge the setting of the games which has no boundaries due to the magic and technology levels that are present.
The steroids addition, wouldn't make anything into anyone, it would just shave a bit of time at that point in the game when things get a bit samey and repetitive, and you're just chewing through slaves.
For the neoplasty subject. I think straight up 50% chance of death for B -> A and 75% for A -> S is a pretty good balancing factor considering that beauty is a limiting factor of a slave. If you really want to push a slave to it's limits, you'd not only need money but you'd also need to land a coin flip. So when you get that low pride ugly slave, you can have a conversation in your head.. "Do I spend my time and money on this, risking to ruin it all, or do I wait for the perfect one.". And this is easily justifiable by saying that, to increase the slave's beauty further, they need to straight up remodel parts of her face, which has a high chance of going bad.

2.2 is mostly bugfixes and sfx. Except the cow changes. And my image system if you want but that doesn't have that much of an impact on gameplay, only on the technical side of image adding.
The most we can do is keep a permanent link to that version which will hopefully have as little bugs as possible.

 

[qwertyu12359]

For the neoplasty subject. I think straight up 50% chance of death for B -> A and 75% for A -> S is a pretty good balancing factor considering that beauty is a limiting factor of a slave. If you really want to push a slave to it's limits, you'd not only need money but you'd also need to land a coin flip. So when you get that low pride ugly slave, you can have a conversation in your head.. "Do I spend my time and money on this, risking to ruin it all, or do I wait for the perfect one.". And this is easily justifiable by saying that, to increase the slave's beauty further, they need to straight up remodel parts of her face, which has a high chance of going bad.

That's just a bit too extreme ^^ A possible beauty malus is more cohesive and less punitive. Example: Michael Jackson.

Again, before making such a game-design decision, we'll gather litterature on the subject, and see what are the odds that an aesthetical chirurgy by the best doctor in the world turns out bad for the patient. Then we'll reduce the odds to our assumption of how much JONT surgeon is better than the best one on Earth, and tadaa we'll have our new mechanic.

 

[Lokplart]

That's just a bit too extreme ^^ A possible beauty malus is more cohesive and less punitive.

Alright, but it needs to be serious enough for you to really want that surgery to happen to justify doing it.
I think that for the game's design sake, realism needs to stop at one point when key core gameplay features are being changed.
I was going to push for this when the subject would have been in full development but since it came into discussion I'll say it now. My goal for this is to give possibilities but I never want the player to be sure of the fact that he can take an ugly slave to the S+ beauty at all. I'm ok with the idea of "Doing something with everyone" but I really don't like the idea of "Doing anything with anyone". That's the main limiting factor of a slave and it should stay the main limiting factor of a slave, otherwise we take away the satisfaction of actually finding a good slave.

 

[drebin]

Having limitations on neoplasty, like it is now is fine and dandy, but making it simply undesirable isn't the solution.

I agree with qwerty that simply having a flat % chance for the slave to die is not a good design decision. You might as well just take out the whole neoplasty option all together with that change. After implementing a chance of critical failure, you would basically only throw in the cheapest slaves to surgery you don't even care about, and are completely expendable in case you roll high with one of them. Do we really want a russian rulette in the hospital?
Giving a negative effect you can get on failure can still be a deterrent if you're not a gambling man. There's other options to rectify the exploitation of neoplasty. For example if you fail too many times they get the trait "artificial", which makes their max Beauty cap out at B and can never be raised again through surgery.

I also don't think that you should be able to make the same exact copy of a slave from any old slave you buy, but there are better solutions for that. Traits, fears and likes are one of those.

Edit: I almost forgot, it's not really true that beauty is a hard limiting factor, since you can get the same effect from increasing fame, which can have a death penalty if you aren't prepared enough. But that's the thing, when you're training someone to be a gladiator, you can lower the risks by training her and giving her gear and so on. With a flat chance of death from surgery, you would only punish the people who want their favorite slave to be drop dead gorgeous.

Personally I don't even use it on slaves I like, since it brings the whole unnatural stigma with it. You can see it in the stats screen. It's going to haunt you forever.

 

[Riujin]

You can strip this game down to the main player houses, the guild and a general store that sells all the items and you'll still have mostly the same game.

You got the point! That's it, that's the "game". This is why I talked about the change on the "money" system, cause you are touching the core of the game. A soft touch like the barn would be forgettable, but a deep change can change the game. The game is about economic survival and training slaves.
If you change the trophy system no one will miss it, if you change the fighting system no one will miss it. But, if the economic system is indirectly touched: ex. every fight gets you an S+ slave... this will change the game.

With the 3.0 I was talking about major changes that directly and heavy affect the game.

Beauty system and Michael Jackson

I think myself that death could be a bit "too much".

For Michael Jackson, his color and deformation wasn't the result of a "chirurgical" operation went bad, but a disease. He was affected by a disease that was slowly creating white spots on his skin and leaving scars on his face and body.
When the almost every part of his body was covered by these "white stains" he did the operation to get an uniform color all over the body and others to "reconstruct" his face from the damage of the scars.

I'm not an huge fan of RNG in these kind of things, cause it can be easily save scummed... But I think it might work in this fashion:

2/3 types of operations.
1 - Unsecure and fast/low cost
2 - Secure and medium in cost/time
3 - Perfect and high cost/time.

Every operation gone wrong might get the slave without beauty improvements and soft/heavy scars. If you get the scar, you can remove them with another operation and tempt again later.
What is the detrimental factor? Time and money and health. Time between every operation, money or health as a bad result might hit hard the health of the slave for a maybe some days.

Example with rough generic values:
1 - Cost: 250
Shady "surgeon"
RNG results: 3
20% - The operation is a great success. Improvement in beauty without negative effects
35% - The operation is a success, but a minor surgical scar is left on the girl.
45% - Total failure. No beauty boost and a major scar is left on the girl.

2 - Cost: 500
Guild surgeon
RNG results: 2
35% - The operation is a great success. Improvement in beauty without negative effects
65% - The operation is a success, but a minor surgical scar is left on the girl.

3 - Cost: 1000
High class surgeon
100% Operation success

Scars: can be healed with operations
Downtime for operation: 20/30 days until the next surgical beauty improvement operation can be performed.
Downtime for scar operation: none or 2 3 days. (No idea the current value, if it's present)

Now here is the point: can multiple operations after an improvement might me performed? Depends

20/30 days of waiting time is an huge detrimental to exploit the function to sell it... BUT Here is the idea:

My goal for this is to give possibilities but I never want the player to be sure of the fact that he can take an ugly slave to the S+ beauty at all. I'm ok with the idea of "Doing something with everyone" but I really don't like the idea of "Doing anything with anyone".

While I 100% agree with this, I also like the idea of literally grabbing the worst possible girl you can get into the fog and move her to the best.... At a price. We could make that every operation after the first successful will increase the price.

Price= y
1st: yx1
2nd: yx2
3rd: yx3.... and so on.

I mean... waiting 120 days and spending 40.000k to improve your girl.... What do you think about it?

Also all of this might lead to the "utilize" of surgeon skill for the player.
I have no idea on how many ranks are there, but let's say there are 10 different stages of the skills.
1 - 2 "Butcherer" quality
3 - 5 "Shady" quality
6 -9 Guild quality
10 High class quality

You will lead the operation and will not pay for the surgeon decreasing the cost of the operation by half (You will always need the equipment and to rent a suitable place to do the operation)

This might actually do the "surgeon" start/character a thing and it might be a chance to raise even more the prices for the operations leaded by official surgeons


EDIT: it can also work that only some surgeons can improve beauty rating after some points:
F to C The shady
F to A the Guild one
F to S/S+ The high class one (no idea if S+ is actually a thing in grades)

 

[drebin]

So here is the request/idea:
I have no idea on how the code of the game works, so I don't know if this is possibile.... BUT is possible to actually split things apart?
1 - Improved "vanilla" version of the game with bugs and generic add-on. (Bugs fix, Different quality of life improvements, pics, etc). This, will make everyone happy: they will be able to savor all of your works without fear of possibly unwanted new systems/overhaul of the game.
2 - A patch with the new experimental systems. This will keep the game progressing forward while the "safe" possibility to test the new system without fear of having a "2.2" release with a broken or new unfitting add-on.

Don't take this the wrong way, but the vanilla version you are requesting as a different fork with added fixes, is a community project that has been on-going for 6 years now, a project that changed hands more than a few times. Yes Crushboss made a very stable version in 1.7, but saying that you want that version to be maintained while there are other changes to a secondary one is kind of disrespectful to Crushboss's legacy and all of those that came before him, not to mention the fine gentlemen working on it right now.

1.7 (1.7.5 if you prefer that one) wasn't the only good version, the thing about community developement is that it has it's ups and downs, but after a while it will always return to the best it can be, since if someone doesn't like the changes in the longrun, they'll make their own continuation to the project.

More on a psychological note, but 1.7 and 1.7.5 is on a pedestal right now, because so much time has passed since it was finalized, people had time to accept it and get familiar with it. Marinated on it, and after all this time someone tries to change that working formula. I understand, I like the old one as well, drowned way too much time on it to not think that. Still, I implore you, at least give them a chance.

 

[Riujin]

Don't take this the wrong way, but the vanilla version you are requesting as a different fork with added fixes, is a community project that has been on-going for 6 years now, a project that changed hands more than a few times. Yes Crushboss made a very stable version in 1.7, but saying that you want that version to be maintained while there are other changes to a secondary one is kind of disrespectful to Crushboss's legacy and all of those that came before him, not to mention the fine gentlemen working on it right now.

1.7 (1.7.5 if you prefer that one) wasn't the only good version, the thing about community developement is that it has it's ups and downs, but after a while it will always return to the best it can be, since if someone doesn't like the changes in the longrun, they'll make their own continuation to the project.

More a psichological note, but 1.7 and 1.7.5 is on a pedestal right now, because so much time has passed since it was finalized, people had time to accept it and get familiar with it. Marinated on it, and after all this time someone tries to change that working formula. I understand, I like the old one as well, drowned way too much time on it to not think that. Still, I implore you, at least give them a chance.

I played 1.21, hf 1.5, 1.6 and 1.7.5... And, for me, the difference between 1.2.1 and the successive felt heavy, in good way.

There is already a bazillion of work in 2.1, huge improvement in the quality without alterating the gameplay and feeling of the game. (they are heroes just for the image pack..)

Maybe I didn't express myself good in the first post, but this is what Intended to say:

"IF you guys have FUTURE projects to DEEP change the GAMEPLAY or the experience of the game... Just warp things up and move things on a 3.0 version".
If you heavily change things from 2.x to 2.y and have plans on changing deeper and deeper the feeling/mechanics of the game, I think it will be much more fitting to move on a new release while leaving behind a stable version.

Now, while working on both could be neat to have both version upgraded and fully polished, it will not be worth if it's more time consuming than a copy and paste of 2/5 minutes to upgrade the game. They already answered and this is not the case.

For the "patch": If I'm creating something experimental and I'm not sure of the result, I would make an "experimental" version and work on it. Players will be able to test it and enjoy it while not directly touching the base game at the first try.

I'm talking about things that touch the CORE of the game, not small add-on. I don't know if they are some coming. It was a speculation.

I don't see how this is sounding disrespectful. I'm just thinking in a very pragmatic way.

 

[Lokplart]

For example if you fail too many times they get the trait "artificial", which makes their max Beauty cap out at B and can never be raised again through surgery.

Every operation gone wrong might get the slave without beauty improvements and soft/heavy scars. If you get the scar, you can remove them with another operation and tempt again later.
What is the detrimental factor? Time and money and health. Time between every operation, money or health as a bad result might hit hard the health of the slave for a maybe some days.

While I 100% agree with this, I also like the idea of literally grabbing the worst possible girl you can get into the fog and move her to the best.... At a price. We could make that every operation after the first successful will increase the price.

I like these. I think they can be combined nicely with eachother.
Here's my draft:
Each consecutive neoplasty gets increasingly more expensive and more likely to result in a failure (Up to 35%? Would that be ok?). Each failure has a chance to give scars. After more then 2 successful neoplasty surgeries, critical failures start to be a thing. Upon a critical failure the doctor can give you two choices: To either cut your losses and accept to let him replace her face with a fully artificial premade face, for a moderate price, which caps the girl at B+ beauty and gives her a price penalty, or you can choose the pay a ludicrously high amount of money for a full facial reconstruction which will put the girl back at the beauty level she was before the surgery and also reduce a bit the accumulated chances for failures. So if you want, you can keep trying to improve her from there.

So now, you could go for 2 to 3 levels, regardless of which levels, with low to moderate chances of failure. Which would be the investment that most likely pays off.
You can also take your chances and try to go full on for perfection from nothing with worth rewards if it works or substantial losses if it doesn't
You also have the ability to eventually get that one slave you like to S+ regardless of her starting level but I don't think it should be expected to make that much if any profit off of her if you go through with the full facial reconstruction. If you choose to sink that much money and time into one girl, then you're doing it for your own personal interests.

Also, the idea for the master doing the neoplasty... I think it could work...?
But it can go to C- at most. I would be cheaper then the doctor, to make it worth it, but I think there should be a bit higher chances of failure.
F -> D if you have A+ surgeon skill
F -> C if you have S+ surgeon skill

We have to be careful though.. adding so many benefits to the surgeon skill is going to make it kind of OP.. We either cut some, or make sure to give the other skills monetary benefits as wll, that hold up the surgeon's.

-----------------------------------------

For the "patch": If I'm creating something experimental and I'm not sure of the result, I would make an "experimental" version and work on it. Players will be able to test it and enjoy it while not directly touching the base game at the first try.

Those are the dev versions. Any change we make there is one click away from being reverted and either changed so it fits, or if that's not possible, taken out completely.

"IF you guys have FUTURE projects to DEEP change the GAMEPLAY or the experience of the game... Just warp things up and move things on a 3.0 version".

I agree with this. I don't think the fighting changes deserve the "3.0" label but the economy ones might.

 

[qwertyu12359]

Ryujin, one thing to consider is that 2.0 and 2.1 could have been named 1.8.1 and 1.8.2.

We named it 2.0 because it was planned to be a complete overhaul already, with the uncensoring, the new art, the musics, and the new UI (that wasn't finished). But in the end, there weren't new quests, new mechanics, and some people were expecting that from the name 2.0 alone.

Meaning there's really no need for "3.0" and keeping a "2.0" branch. The game has already changed hands and economical changes have already been implemented in 2.1 (ability to buy an apartment if you're a patrician). We're only following on it. In other words, 2.0 is already the overhaul project you're thinking about; it just took time to be explicitly noticeable.

Edit: But one perfectly fitting solution would be to keep a 2.1 or a 2.2 link available at all times, even when 2.3 will be out.

 

[drebin]

I like these. I think they can be combined nicely with eachother.
Here's my draft:
Each consecutive neoplasty gets increasingly more expensive and more likely to result in a failure (Up to 35%? Would that be ok?). Each failure has a chance to give scars. After more then 2 successful neoplasty surgeries, critical failures start to be a thing. Upon a critical failure the doctor can give you two choices: To either cut your losses and accept to let him replace her face with a fully artificial premade face, for a moderate price, which caps the girl at B+ beauty and gives her a price penalty, or you can choose the pay a ludicrously high amount of money for a full facial reconstruction which will put the girl back at the beauty level she was before the surgery and also reduce a bit the accumulated chances for failures. So if you want, you can keep trying to improve her from there.

So now, you could go for 2 to 3 levels, regardless of which levels, with low to moderate chances of failure. Which would be the investment that most likely pays off.
You can also take your chances and try to go full on for perfection from nothing with worth rewards if it works or substantial losses if it doesn't
You also have the ability to eventually get that one slave you like to S+ regardless of her starting level but I don't think it should be expected to make that much if any profit off of her if you go through with the full facial reconstruction. If you choose to sink that much money and time into one girl, then you're doing it for your own personal interests.

I think this would be a pretty good compromise. If you can't make huge profits off of the surgery, because you need to invest about the same amount into a perfect girl, it should be well balanced.

A comment to an earlier point you guys were discussing about the guild contracts. Personally I always thought it was stupid that the guild could only offer you one contract per day, and most of the time you would get something like a pony girl request with C-D endurance which in early game on the harder difficulties is simply an unrealistic request.
So you would have to return next day and waste a day and sparks, it only provides frustration and a reason to savescum.
The bounty board is a perfect solution to this. If you can choose from 5 contracts most likely less people will try to find the optimal one, and just go with a mediocre, but still reasonable request.

Edit: But one perfectly fitting solution would be to keep a 2.1 or a 2.2 link available at all times, even when 2.3 will be out.

There are links to the old versions on the wiki already. Just put one up there.

 

[qwertyu12359]

A comment to an earlier point you guys were discussing about the guild contracts. Personally I always thought it was stupid that the guild could only offer you one contract per day, and most of the time you would get something like a pony girl request with C-D endurance which in early game on the harder difficulties is simply an unrealistic request.
So you would have to return next day and waste a day and sparks, it only provides frustration and a reason to savescum.

100% agreed.

There are links to the old versions on the wiki already. Just put one up there.

Unfortunately, we can't just put a version in there like before. The new obstacle is that we have to keep track of the "loli patch" versions now...

And I haven't been able to post a full version, after only a few days my Mega and Google Drive accounts got banned, even with a password. It seems one guy signaling is enough for the file to be taken down without verification.

We'll give it a try however.

 

[Riujin]

After more then 2 successful neoplasty surgeries, critical failures start to be a thing. Upon a critical failure the doctor can give you two choices: To either cut your losses and accept to let him replace her face with a fully artificial premade face, for a moderate price, which caps the girl at B+ beauty and gives her a price penalty, or you can choose the pay a ludicrously high amount of money for a full facial reconstruction which will put the girl back at the beauty level she was before the surgery and also reduce a bit the accumulated chances for failures. So if you want, you can keep trying to improve her from there.

If you choose to sink that much money and time into one girl, then you're doing it for your own personal interests.

Do you mind if we stop for a second? Considering that I don't mind myself the system as it works at the moment and considering that the game was "MEANT" to work like that:

Neoplasty
In order to get Neoplasy performed on your slave the following must occur:

1. The slave cannot already be maxed on beauty (Exquisite)
2. You must have a minimum of 250 sparks in your inventory
3. Neoplasty has not already been performed on the slave (Neoplasty can only be performed once per slave)
4. The slave cannot be recovering from another procedure (rehabilitation time cannot be displayed in the traits section of the slave)

If the idea is to add the thing, I suggest to keep it as simple as it can get while striking the objective.
For what reason you do neoplasty?
1 - You want to sell your slave at a better price, get her good enough for a quest.
2 - You found a good slave with high other stat (for example endurance that is actually NOT possible to increase by surgery, which add more value at idea) and low beauty.
3 - You totally don't care about money and you just want to improve to the best rank your slave, cause you are end game and stuff.

The ideas: high prices, chances of scars and critical failures.
I personally don't like the idea to make it a gamble thing with that critical failure thing... People will just save scum OR if you really plan to waste 10/20/30/40k of money on a girl you will probably simply don't care about money and it will be just a boring wait between operations... wishing for the RNG god to bless you.

Now, let's say that: 1 is a early player, 2 is a mid game player and 3 is an end game player.
Improving more than 1 level in beauty is already broken in my opinion, so it might be ok to consider: 1 level for early players, 2 for mid game players, 3+ late game players.

I love the idea of possibly leaving a scar on the girl (that can be healed later with another normal operation) but I would throw away the idea of critical failures... For one simple reason: if you get behind upgrade 2... you already have in consideration to spend and huge sum of money on that girl cause you are late game.

Let's kept it simple:
First upgrade: Standard procedure - 250 sparks
Second upgrade: Advanced procedure - 500/600 sparks
Third and so on upgrades: TOP class procedure, 2000/4000/5000 sparks for upgrade
This means that if I have an ugly slave I'll need around 12.750/16.750/20.750 coins for the whole process (or more, depends on how high is the cost of the third procedure).
You'll make every 3 players happy without too much RNG blessings, also it might work with the setting and the story.
The standard procedure is our common tier of "tecnology"
The high level procedure is a very intense procedure, that will improve further the girl beauty without making her look artificial.
Top class tier, same as above plus let's add that the changes are so deep that the procedure might kill the girl.. So to avoid that you need a very top tier equipment. (Of course it's all flavor text to contextualize)

Last but not least, every procedure have a fixed chance to leave a scar on the girl... Which is a nice touch in my opinion.

Also, the idea for the master doing the neoplasty... I think it could work...?

Let's keep even this as simple as above: let's consider just Medic(surgeon): B, A and S
B level let's you perform The standard procedure
A level let's you perform the advanced procedure + 50 Sparks discount on procedure Standard and 100 on advanced
S level let's you perform the top tier procedure + 100 Sparks discount on procedure Standard, 150/200 on advanced and 500/1000 on top tier

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meaning there's really no need for "3.0" and keeping a "2.0" branch. The game has already changed hands and economical changes have already been implemented in 2.1 (ability to buy an apartment if you're a patrician). We're only following on it. In other words, 2.0 is already the overhaul project you're thinking about; it just took time to be explicitly noticeable.

Touching the fight system or adding quest and small features will not drastically chance the game in his complex. Buying an apartment will kill the weekly/monthly bills... But that is an end game feature that will not touch the feeling of the game that much.

If you plan to ad and extreme change like: let's merge whoremaster brothel system with Jack.... That will count for me like a very major change into the game, cause your are slowly turning a 100% slave trainer game into something else.
But again, that's my opinion and I get what it seems to be your idea from the starts. I'm curious

Edit: But one perfectly fitting solution would be to keep a 2.1 or a 2.2 link available at all times, even when 2.3 will be out.

 

[Riujin]

Lokplart

Level of beauty text doesn't fit ("cute" = C+, while C+ is supposed to be Poor). Let it be: Hideous / Ugly / Homely / Average Looking / Pretty / Beautiful.

While I do understand your point, you need to consider them based on the contract requirements in my opinion.
These are the names from: 1.7.5
Ugly / Plain / Cute / Pretty / Beautiful / Exquisite
You need a:
Exquisite slave for S+ Rank
Beautiful slave for A Rank
Pretty Slave for B rank
Cute Slave for C rank
Plain Slave for D rank
Ugly get's you nowhere

Rome is a society where go hunting other worlds for girl so I think of having them just accepting the "best" is a pretty understandable thing... If you also think that the ugly ones get's you nowhere and that the butcher is working nonstop... You get the point.LOL

Also a B Contract is already an high contract, so it's understandable to have people asking for pretty slaves.. While the S contract are only asked by the most rich citizens that ask for Rare beauties.

PS: I beg to keep Exquisite like final tier I love the sounds of it like more that "beautiful" as a final tier, plus it seems exotic like a "RARE" beauty for an S class contract should be (and Yeah, I know that "exotic" is already a thing, but you got my point)

Isabella says she's not beautiful in her intro, yet her beauty is A+. Make her C+ or D+.

Also this might be even the reason for this part: Isabella is saying that she is not that "good looking" for "Rome" standards. A beautiful traits gets you at max into an A contract... Plus you need to be trained into every sort of sexual and common manners. D and C class contract are only asked by low social class people and when you buy her she is C+.

Also, her carefully "choosing" the words to use on you might be another thing: Hey I'm old and tired and I wanna stop living a life of danger... I would love to live like a princes, bought by a pratician (S class citizen) but I'm not that good looking... And I might need lot's more of weird training. So HEY! I was a "slaver" myself in the past so I have knowledge that might help you in the future (she comes with many different skills already at B+) ... While living a comfortable life as an assistant without being used in any sort of sexual way...

I think It might be a very nice touch for a smart ass like she claims to be.
What do you think?

 

[qwertyu12359]

Lokplart


While I do understand your point, you need to consider them based on the contract requirements in my opinion.
These are the names from: 1.7.5
Ugly / Plain / Cute / Pretty / Beautiful / Exquisite
You need a:
Exquisite slave for S+ Rank
Beautiful slave for A Rank
Pretty Slave for B rank
Cute Slave for C rank
Plain Slave for D rank
Ugly get's you nowhere

Rome is a society where go hunting other worlds for girl so I think of having them just accepting the "best" is a pretty understandable thing... If you also think that the ugly ones get's you nowhere and that the butcher is working nonstop... You get the point.LOL

Also a B Contract is already an high contract, so it's understandable to have people asking for pretty slaves.. While the S contract are only asked by the most rich citizens that ask for Rare beauties.

PS: I beg to keep Exquisite like final tier I love the sounds of it like more that "beautiful" as a final tier, plus it seems exotic like a "RARE" beauty for an S class contract should be (and Yeah, I know that "exotic" is already a thing, but you got my point)



Also this might be even the reason for this part: Isabella is saying that she is not that "good looking" for "Rome" standards. A beautiful traits gets you at max into an A contract... Plus you need to be trained into every sort of sexual and common manners. D and C class contract are only asked by low social class people and when you buy her she is C+.

Also, her carefully "choosing" the words to use on you might be another thing: Hey I'm old and tired and I wanna stop living a life of danger... I would love to live like a princes, bought by a pratician (S class citizen) but I'm not that good looking... And I might need lot's more of weird training. So HEY! I was a "slaver" myself in the past so I have knowledge that might help you in the future (she comes with many different skills already at B+) ... While living a comfortable life as an assistant without being used in any sort of sexual way...

I think It might be a very nice touch for a smart ass like she claims to be.
What do you think?

I wrote that task in his roadmap. Thanks for stating your opinion but I wasn't convinced by your arguments.

My point is that there's a concrete rank terminology, you can see it when starting sandbox mode. The game doesn't follow it as of now, and it should, for homogeneity and cohesiveness. "Cute" is too much of a meliorative word to be C+ based on the rest of the stats.

Maybe we can keep exquisite at S+, it does sound fancy. But then I have to replace B+ with something over than "average looking" but that conveys basically the same idea.

And if Isabella is not "good looking" for Rome standards, then she shouldn't be rated A+ by Rome standards.

 

[Riujin]

I wrote that task in his roadmap. Thanks for stating your opinion but I wasn't convinced by your arguments.

My point is that there's a concrete rank terminology, you can see it when starting sandbox mode. The game doesn't follow it as of now, and it should, for homogeneity and cohesiveness. "Cute" is too much of a meliorative word to be C+ based on the rest of the stats.

Maybe we can keep exquisite at S+, it does sound fancy. But then I have to replace B+ with something over than "average looking" but that conveys basically the same idea.

And if Isabella is not "good looking" for Rome standards, then she shouldn't be rated A+ by Rome standards.

That's true.. But if you take in consideration that the "poor" ranks mean "average" in every other stats:

Then the normal means "skilled and good":

The "good" means "Excellent and Expert":

And the awesome you are literally a monster as it should be by "Awesome":


I might be wrong, but maybe are instead the "Poor, Normal and Good" ranks that are not that fitting with the rest of the skills.
It might be:
Awesome/Masterful/Great
Excellent/Expert
Good/Adept
Average
Poor/Novice
Awful/Inexperienced

 

[qwertyu12359]

That's true.. But if you take in consideration that the "poor" ranks mean "average" in every other stats:
View attachment 700219
Then the normal means "skilled and good":
View attachment 700220
The "good" means "Excellent and Expert":
View attachment 700223
And the awesome you are literally a monster as it should be by "Awesome":
View attachment 700224

I might be wrong, but maybe are instead the "Poor, Normal and Good" ranks that are not that fitting with the rest of the skills.
It might be:
Awesome/Masterful/Great
Excellent/Expert
Good/Adept
Average
Poor/Novice
Awful/Inexperienced

Alright I'm convinced. It's not the stats that need to be changed, but the color explanation (we'll have to see for the other stats like cleanliness too). I'll change the roadmap when I wake up tomorrow.

However it definitely means that Isabella is D+ beauty and that's hardly arguable.

 

[Riujin]

However it definitely means that Isabella is D+ beauty and that's hardly arguable.

If the customers for ranks are :
S+ = Patrician/High nobles
A+ = Noble/Very rich
B+ = Minor noble/Rich
C+ = Citizens
D+ = Low Citizens
F+ = Beggars - Non citizen (can't afford a slave)

A+ is too much even for me. I'll say D+ to C+ at best if she is trying to "Escape" the fate of being sold as a slave and sweet talking the player into being an assistant.

OR Maybe rewriting her character from a scratch that could lead to some interesting quest about this "smart ass" assistant that tries to buy herself a good life into this weird dystopic world.

No idea just throwing ideas for you guys Good night! ^^

 

[qwertyu12359]

If the customers for ranks are :
S+ = Patrician/High nobles
A+ = Noble/Very rich
B+ = Minor noble/Rich
C+ = Citizens
D+ = Low Citizens
F+ = Beggars - Non citizen (can't afford a slave)

A+ is too much even for me. I'll say D+ to C+ at best if she is trying to "Escape" the fate of being sold as a slave and sweet talking the player into being an assistant.

OR Maybe rewriting her character from a scratch that could lead to some interesting quest about this "smart ass" assistant that tries to buy herself a good life into this weird dystopic world.

No idea just throwing ideas for you guys Good night! ^^

And shouldn't she be closed to doing sexual tasks? Then why the game allows it without an once of resistance?