- Sep 12, 2020
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Punish her with shaming -> public toilet. Earn $1.Is it possible to prostitute a slave without selling her?
Punish her with shaming -> public toilet. Earn $1.Is it possible to prostitute a slave without selling her?
It don't even pay the cost for washing herPunish her with shaming -> public toilet. Earn $1.
... you can do it more than once ...It don't even pay the cost for washing her![]()
Nice work on the game. It is well put together.
Thanks.Nice work on the game. It is well put together.
There are a few issues with the concept. Don't get me wrong I like the entire slave management business idea.
The training system while complex is well thought out. Seriously good attention to detail. Some might find it a little hard to wrap their head around.
Contextual. If everyone else does it too, it's normalized. This is not a scenario of outlaws going around murdering people. It is lawful to be a cannibal sociopath. Also, a sizeable and influential segment of the population are undead.That said damn this is some seriously dark shit.
This is the stuff you'd expect out of Hannibal Lecter if he was real or Andrei Chikatilo who was real.
You have an entire society of these types of people. Just to be clear. only 1 in 20 serial killers of this type can hold their mental faculties together very long most were complete failures in life other than the one listed above he actually managed to become a teacher.
That's the first issue with the story.
A few issues with the story:
1. I understand some of the general premise of the story because you tell it to slaves to let them know where they stand. This Rome is cut off from other places by the fog. If that's the case how do the girls manage to wander through?
In Rome, there are citizens, residents and slaves. The slums are outside the city walls and at constant risk of monster attack. The people who live in the slums are competing for limited space and resources while hoping for a chance to gain access to the city. The influx of humans from the fogs represents a renewable source of food for the residents of the slums, but when slums residents capture humans from the fogs they also risk coming into conflict with various parties from the city who seek to capture humans for sale as slaves. We see this in the various encounters at the edge of the fogs.2. How are non-slave women determined vs slave women? There doesn't appear to be any sort of system described in the game for that? Given that fact why wasn't Isabelle and all other women enslaved.
They explain in detail if you ask them. Partial excerpt:3. Smugglers? Where are they smuggling from? Are they just going from the edge of the fog to the slums? If so can't really say that is smuggling. It might be smuggling if they were going through the fog bank some how. But no secret like that would last and Rome there would be probably abandoned fairly fast.
Who says they don't? Among the non-player characters, there are plenty of non-humans. We don't have playable non-human slaves because it would complicate the development too much to find adequate images and write text variations for them, but they certainly exist from a lore perspective.4. The magic used to modify women to make them lay eggs and so on. Why not do it to monsters?
Definition of monster is a bit subjective. The opponents you fight at the edge of the fogs include some other residents of the city, who happen to be perfectly respectable vampires and liches from the Necropolis, beastmen from the Outcasts district, etc. As for real cows, see spoiler above. Since they are illegal, anyone found possessing them would be in trouble.5. Why are there some monsters allowed to live in the city when they work so hard to keep them out? Then you feed women to them? I think you are going to find a lot of people rather fail the game than do that. If the source of meat is only females that will probably stop a lot of people when the realize it. (hint smugglers real cows.)
Men come through the fogs too. Consider the backstories of the "normal start" player characters. As for going back, it might be possible in some cases - with magic ability to navigate, combat ability to survive, and if an entry/exit point to that particular world is still open - but most of the men who come to Rome end up dead long before they'd be able to learn how to get back. Females are valued more than males, and females are barely valued. How many? Enough to have around a dozen new slaves at the daily market auction, plus however many are kept by their captors or culled before they make it that far.6. Back to women coming through the fog guessing that is how men ended up there to start. So how many of them come through and what happens to them? Also pretty cowardly for men to not try to get back through the fog the other direction.
Buildings that intersect the fogs have poor structural integrity. Exactly how this happens is unclear, but when you consider that the fogs contain moving portals (effectively). it stands to reason that anything stationary in the fogs would have low life expectancy.If you have a continual influx of labor like that why not put the excess women to work building a tunnel that goes into the fog and keeps going. That way monsters outside it wouldn't be able to attack those on the inside. You would only need to defend the end points. That's a smaller area and easier to control. Apparently there is ground inside the fog or the women wouldn't be able to walk out of it. So the tunnel could go under ground.
There are very few family businesses in Rome because no babies are born there. Some of the ruling class have families on other worlds.You also might want to look at the slave auction back stories on the girls some. I seen one were she was sold into debt when her husband business failed. Granted you get more of that story when at home if you get her to talk. Did she come through the fog or was her family citizens of that Rome? The auctions seem to always suggest through the fog, "she comes from a world where she..."
The slavers guild has a monopoly on the trade of slaves. Anyone who doesn't go through them for any transaction involving a slave would be in trouble. As for what keeps people from randomly abducting other people in the city, residents and citizens in the Eternal Rome have the backing of a guild or a great house or both, and offending powerful organizations like that is a good way to win a Darwin award or at the very least incur a lot of economic pain.Given that men probably actually come through the fog as well what is to keep someone from turning you into a slave at their whim? What is to keep someone from filling your house with gas at knight to ensure you stay asleep then break shackle you and stuff you in a cell some place?
Having live offspring is a problem in Rome. Importing live cows is illegal. It would be far more expensive to import cow meat than to slaughter some of the endless influx of humans.7. If you can make women lay eggs with magic why not fully transform them? An actual cow would produce a lot more milk and provide better meat. If those animals can have offspring that are animals you get around the whole eating women issue. It doesn't make much sense that this level of magic doesn't exist when you have what you currently have.
The great houses issue tokens (functionally a sort of passport) to allow people to pass through the city gate. They presumably are magically bound to a person so they cannot be stolen, forged or counterfeit.You could solve part of this by Citizens having some sort of magical seal on their person. Then you would also need to describe how it can't be faked, who issues them and under what basis.
Addressed above. In a city full of immortal vampires, liches and zombies, were-lions, sphinxes, gorgons, etc., where practicing necromancy is not only legal but probably existentially necessary, and where female humans are the only legal source of meat that is readily available ...The two bigger problems are women being eaten and passage through the fog. Without some explanation or attempt on the men's side to get back through the fog it makes the men of Rome look like pussies who took the easy way out.
Frankly, I wouldn't sell any female to any monster to be eaten, to be butchered ... There are somethings you just can't do and keep your man card. Doesn't matter how shitty the situation is.
Babies are stillborn in the Eternal Rome. According to the Vatican, they do not have souls unless secret rituals are performed. The Vatican takes pregnant slaves and either buys them or promises to return them after birth - but keeps the babies. For what purpose?8. Last issue, just realized it. You have a population of people that have children.
Throwing it into the fogs is a viable way to dispose of it, as it'll be eaten by monsters or scattered around the multiverse. Specifically for human remains, aside from -possibly- the contents of the intestines, when you consider the demographics of the city, there are buyers for everything. Organs, bones, skin and all.Plus you have women continually coming in through the fog. You also have monsters coming through. That means you have a constant influx of mass. But you have a limited amount of area. What do you do with the remains and parts you don't use. You apparently aren't eating the monsters so do they let the bodies just rot? If so bodies don't instantly decay. So you would have a huge pile of shit at some point. Maybe, you magically teleport it away? Where, why don't use the teleport to move you there and escape? You can't just say you through it into the fog because the way it currently sits is the fog is a one directional path or Rome would be pretty much abandoned or at the least women would be treated far differently. The problem here is matter doesn't just go away. Even if you burned the corpses you would end up with city buried under the ash of the dead. If you allow for magical incineration the destruction of matter entirely then you conversely should be able to make it. You could conjure or summon fort objects and animals or other beings. Which again makes the need to eat women go away.
Everyone meaning the women or the people eating them? The Eternal Rome has more advanced medicine than we do, so dying of heart disease seems unlikely.In short if you do the math and fattened women up as described in here for meat everyone would die of heart disease.
People drink shitty beer all the time even when they have better options available. In the Eternal Rome, if there's only one kind of meat available, your choices are limited.You would have to pretty much start from child birth and raise them to taste worth a shit.
You mentioned this has lot of lore is it based off of some prior work?Thanks.
Contextual. If everyone else does it too, it's normalized. This is not a scenario of outlaws going around murdering people. It is lawful to be a cannibal sociopath. Also, a sizeable and influential segment of the population are undead.
The fog / mists (pick your translation) are passable, but only those with magical ability/training are able to navigate reliably. The fog / mists connect various places throughout the multiverse, but the entry / exit points are not static.
The smugglers group in the slums, as an example, started as a group of soldiers who wandered into the fog / mists that appeared on their home world and got lost and ended up at Rome.
In Rome, there are citizens, residents and slaves. The slums are outside the city walls and at constant risk of monster attack. The people who live in the slums are competing for limited space and resources while hoping for a chance to gain access to the city. The influx of humans from the fogs represents a renewable source of food for the residents of the slums, but when slums residents capture humans from the fogs they also risk coming into conflict with various parties from the city who seek to capture humans for sale as slaves. We see this in the various encounters at the edge of the fogs.
There are various ways to gain access to the city. Being recruited by a guild or having a token from one of the great houses, for example. It is also possible to volunteer for enslavement, which is rolling the dice hoping to be valued as more than meat.
They explain in detail if you ask them. Partial excerpt:
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Who says they don't? Among the non-player characters, there are plenty of non-humans. We don't have playable non-human slaves because it would complicate the development too much to find adequate images and write text variations for them, but they certainly exist from a lore perspective.
Definition of monster is a bit subjective. The opponents you fight at the edge of the fogs include some other residents of the city, who happen to be perfectly respectable vampires and liches from the Necropolis, beastmen from the Outcasts district, etc. As for real cows, see spoiler above. Since they are illegal, anyone found possessing them would be in trouble.
Men come through the fogs too. Consider the backstories of the "normal start" player characters. As for going back, it might be possible in some cases - with magic ability to navigate, combat ability to survive, and if an entry/exit point to that particular world is still open - but most of the men who come to Rome end up dead long before they'd be able to learn how to get back. Females are valued more than males, and females are barely valued. How many? Enough to have around a dozen new slaves at the daily market auction, plus however many are kept by their captors or culled before they make it that far.
Buildings that intersect the fogs have poor structural integrity. Exactly how this happens is unclear, but when you consider that the fogs contain moving portals (effectively). it stands to reason that anything stationary in the fogs would have low life expectancy.
There are very few family businesses in Rome because no babies are born there. Some of the ruling class have families on other worlds.
The slavers guild has a monopoly on the trade of slaves. Anyone who doesn't go through them for any transaction involving a slave would be in trouble. As for what keeps people from randomly abducting other people in the city, residents and citizens in the Eternal Rome have the backing of a guild or a great house or both, and offending powerful organizations like that is a good way to win a Darwin award or at the very least incur a lot of economic pain.
Having live offspring is a problem in Rome. Importing live cows is illegal. It would be far more expensive to import cow meat than to slaughter some of the endless influx of humans.
The lactation surgery replaces the womb with something that processes semen and uses it to boost lactation. At the same time, lactating slaves can be used for other purposes, which makes them more valuable than a dairy cow.
The great houses issue tokens (functionally a sort of passport) to allow people to pass through the city gate. They presumably are magically bound to a person so they cannot be stolen, forged or counterfeit.
Addressed above. In a city full of immortal vampires, liches and zombies, were-lions, sphinxes, gorgons, etc., where practicing necromancy is not only legal but probably existentially necessary, and where female humans are the only legal source of meat that is readily available ...
Babies are stillborn in the Eternal Rome. According to the Vatican, they do not have souls unless secret rituals are performed. The Vatican takes pregnant slaves and either buys them or promises to return them after birth - but keeps the babies. For what purpose?
Throwing it into the fogs is a viable way to dispose of it, as it'll be eaten by monsters or scattered around the multiverse. Specifically for human remains, aside from -possibly- the contents of the intestines, when you consider the demographics of the city, there are buyers for everything. Organs, bones, skin and all.
As for the idea that women would be treated differently if it were possible to help them return home ... let's suppose that you had an endless stream of refugees coming to your door. Maybe you'd help some of them, at first. But how long would you continue helping them? How long could you? What if all your neighbors were instead murdering them (with full support from the legal authorities) and selling their possessions and using the money to enrich themselves? While you exhaust your resources in a Sisyphean attempt to behave morally.
Everyone meaning the women or the people eating them? The Eternal Rome has more advanced medicine than we do, so dying of heart disease seems unlikely.
People drink shitty beer all the time even when they have better options available. In the Eternal Rome, if there's only one kind of meat available, your choices are limited.
The Eternal Rome also has plenty of non-humans and demi-humans who presumably have different palates and react differently to the composition of meat.
I think the only canon lore is what you find inside the game (dialogues, descriptions...), minus what's been added since 1.21 (though it can be considered head canon if it doesn't bring any inconsistencies).You mentioned this has lot of lore is it based off of some prior work?
Think I found it.You must be registered to see the links
If there is more info than what is on here and this other site I'd be interested.
I can only base judge soming based on what is available to me.
Darkness has nothing to do with legality. It has to do with the difference between evil and good.
Slavery though once legal in the US was still considered a dark period in US history.
Human's aren't animals (well most, some choose to act like animals), they have soles and self awareness and hopefully more intellect.
As to monster, I'd say monster is determined by the actions of the individual. There is nothing precluding an monster from being intelligent or for that matter having a sole.
Considering what we are talking here. Every last inhabitant of the city might just fall into the category monster.(Even the humans)
It wasn't about women being so much treated better but by the complete imbalance the game shows.
Take Veal for example most of it comes from male cows not female. Because males/ bulls only have one primary purpose when fully grown, breeding. So young males they don't see a future for are butchered. Beef usually comes from milk cows that have gotten old. The game linked above even shows a male slave.
So it would make more sense that elderly males who aren't capable of performing a function such as being a soldier or other jobs would be used as feed rather than women. A young woman is better at doing a task than a decrepit old man.
As for breaking making slaves out of citizens you still haven't given anything to prevent it. Think of it this way. I can go to the mist as you call it capture a female bring her in and brand her. So I go to my competitors house capture all his family brand them and sell them off. Who is going to tell on me. The guy I sold them to? Not likely. That's especially true if they won't be around long and end up as feed. The only thing you need to know shit like this will go down is look at the real slave trade history of this world. Even when most of slavery has been outlawed stuff like that still happens today.
Also a lot of what you describe seems to tie back to a law of not bringing living creatures such as cows.
Strange how animals would be treated better than people.
Most laws are made with a reason in mind. Especially when it comes to religious institutes creating them.
I can't for the life of me think of a reasonable excuse for such a law. The amount of health meat in a cow vs a female and the requirements to grow it or maintain it are far less. Not to mention it produce a lot more milk.
Tunnels breaking:
Hello you created a world with magic!!! Shields, auto repair / mending... For that matter it's a mist filled with portals to other realms. Cast your own portal no guessing where it goes required.
If we assume that the cow vs woman part is correct. It still doesn't explain the female used as a pig. If you are going to go through all that trouble may as well get the better taste and turn her into a pig. You could always transform her back if you decide nope. With the magic you already put into the game it proves these would be possible. So why would they not reap the benefits. Let me guess it might upset the Minitaur you had a cow or are the orcs going to get bent out of shape that we ate pig?
Yet, its cool to eat humans we are all ok with that.
Other meat sources:
It's not really necessary to show every source of every item. There are countless items in the world you don't show the source for.
I get humans aren't the entirety of the populace. But lets think of it this way. Vampires have more reason to keep human's alive than kill them. So long as they live they are a source of blood. Second, they are also a source of replacement.
Lichen(s) don't eat flesh. It would stand to reason beastmen might retain natural instincts to hunt their preferred pray. Like that foxen would hunt the rabbits. Given humans seem to be the primary meet source in your game you can pretty much assume that anyone and everyone but the vampires and liches and other similar entities are about the only one's not with one foot sitting on someone else's dinner plate.
Frankly, the way other stuff I read and what you described are the base I would estimate the cities survival time would be less than 10 days before all hell broke loose.
A city won't last if the people in it don't feel safe. You have nothing that prevents a citizen from ending up on someone else's dinner plate. There would need to be some sort of truce between races in the city as citizens and an authority powerful enough to enforce it. Think large scale military force that can put down riots between the most powerful of the races if it happens.
The thing about crimes is they happen because people think they can get away with them and not get caught. They stop when people tend to feel the risk out weighs the gain. Some times threat of life isn't enough. Something more immediate and long term tends to have more weight. If you kill someone its done and over with as far as they are concerned. But tell them they will spend the rest of their life being tortured in some gruesome way. Or cut their limbs off and force them to live without them. That tends to have a more lasting effect in people's minds.
The game's own text is the only source of lore I'm using. What each of the NPCs say and the descriptions of various activities and places.You mentioned this has lot of lore is it based off of some prior work?
If you look at nature, there are plenty of cannibalistic species, and when put in conditions where cannibalism is a survival imperative, even species that do not normally practice it will start doing so. To describe cannibalism as evil is simply a moral judgment. The fact is, in a scenario where there is a constant influx of meat that requires zero effort to obtain (it literally walks itself to you), and where there is insufficient space to keep it and the prospect of returning it to where it came from is chancy at best and extremely high risk and expense even if possible... well, a lot of that meat is going to be disposed of one way or another.Darkness has nothing to do with legality. It has to do with the difference between evil and good.
So what?Slavery though once legal in the US was still considered a dark period in US history.
Humans are very good at rationalizing behaving like animals, and humans are extremely good at hurting other humans.Human's aren't animals (well most, some choose to act like animals), they have soles and self awareness and hopefully more intellect.
Missing the point. The threat of the fogs includes the presence of creatures that do not follow laws and are extremely dangerous. Those creatures sometimes emerge from the fogs and rampage. This is a constant threat that the city counters with walls and soldiers.As to monster, I'd say monster is determined by the actions of the individual. There is nothing precluding an monster from being intelligent or for that matter having a sole.
Considering what we are talking here. Every last inhabitant of the city might just fall into the category monster.(Even the humans)
The is a constant influx of both men and women through the fogs. The women are enslaved and the men are left to fend for themselves in the slums (if they aren't killed immediately). The facts that there are no male slaves and that men are not slaughtered for meat are not explained, but it stands to reason that the consequences of enslaving or eating males are prohibitive, otherwise there would be a market for both.It wasn't about women being so much treated better but by the complete imbalance the game shows.
Take Veal for example most of it comes from male cows not female. Because males/ bulls only have one primary purpose when fully grown, breeding. So young males they don't see a future for are butchered. Beef usually comes from milk cows that have gotten old. The game linked above even shows a male slave.
So it would make more sense that elderly males who aren't capable of performing a function such as being a soldier or other jobs would be used as feed rather than women. A young woman is better at doing a task than a decrepit old man.
To be clear, the great houses are factions, not families. Naturally there are some assassinations and abductions happening all the time, but "making slaves out of people" is an exclusive privilege of the slavers guild. If someone who isn't sanctioned by the slavers guild tries to pass off some citizens as slaves, the buyer is also committing a crime, and the citizens who are being "enslaved" also know this. If they are constantly imprisoned to avoid any outside contact then they're not really slaves, they're prisoners. Consider what happens when someone from an organized crime family is abducted or killed. If the family doesn't know who to blame, they might go after everyone they suspect, or investigate and call in favors until they find someone to blame. Likewise, if a citizen disappears in Rome, the absence will be noted and their faction and allies will expend some amount of effort to find them or identify and punish the responsible parties. The amount of effort will depend on how valued the citizen was.As for breaking making slaves out of citizens you still haven't given anything to prevent it. Think of it this way. I can go to the mist as you call it capture a female bring her in and brand her. So I go to my competitors house capture all his family brand them and sell them off. Who is going to tell on me. The guy I sold them to? Not likely. That's especially true if they won't be around long and end up as feed. The only thing you need to know shit like this will go down is look at the real slave trade history of this world. Even when most of slavery has been outlawed stuff like that still happens today.
Human females arrive at Rome every day on their own. No cost to import. Cows would have to be transported by armed guards. Expensive! It's not possible to breed cows in Rome to produce more cows. Each and every cow would need to be imported. The space where you would keep the cows is space not available for keeping humans. The cost efficiency of cow vs. cow girl milk production is debatable when you consider that lactation in Rome is augmented and that cow girls are useful for more than food production.Also a lot of what you describe seems to tie back to a law of not bringing living creatures such as cows.
Strange how animals would be treated better than people.
Most laws are made with a reason in mind. Especially when it comes to religious institutes creating them.
I can't for the life of me think of a reasonable excuse for such a law. The amount of health meat in a cow vs a female and the requirements to grow it or maintain it are far less. Not to mention it produce a lot more milk.
Rome builds permanent structures in the form of city walls and gates and builds temporary fortifications around the city as rallying points for soldiers whose job is to deal with the constant influx of dangerous creatures from the fogs. Building inside the fogs is impractical. Magic is costly (literally consuming sparks, which originate from the flame of creation, a portion of which is found in living souls . . .). Rome expends sparks daily on rituals to push back the fogs, which on average maintains a certain amount of space between the walls of the city and the edge of the fogs, but the position of that border shifts. Consequently, the slums outside the walls are at constant risk of being consumed by the fogs. Which is why that land is left as slums instead of being moved inside the walls. The Vatican supplies the sparks for the rituals, which makes everyone in the city dependent on the Vatican for survival. (Think, where does the Vatican get the sparks from?)Tunnels breaking:
Hello you created a world with magic!!! Shields, auto repair / mending... For that matter it's a mist filled with portals to other realms. Cast your own portal no guessing where it goes required.
The feed used for slaves designated as pigs can make a girl corpulent in a matter of days, at a cost of health. Evidently it also produces a marketable flavor profile. Your proposal to apply other forms of transformative magic assumes that such transformative magic is both possible and cost effective. Transformative magics aren't necessarily permanent. What happens inside a person who eats transformed meat when the transformation wears off?If we assume that the cow vs woman part is correct. It still doesn't explain the female used as a pig. If you are going to go through all that trouble may as well get the better taste and turn her into a pig. You could always transform her back if you decide nope. With the magic you already put into the game it proves these would be possible. So why would they not reap the benefits. Let me guess it might upset the Minitaur you had a cow or are the orcs going to get bent out of shape that we ate pig?
Yet, its cool to eat humans we are all ok with that.
Every day new humans arrive. Vampires keep some as cattle and turn some into new vampires, but there is not enough space to keep them all. There needs to be constant culling simply to maintain a stable population.I get humans aren't the entirety of the populace. But lets think of it this way. Vampires have more reason to keep human's alive than kill them. So long as they live they are a source of blood. Second, they are also a source of replacement.
Not seeing your point here.Lichen(s) don't eat flesh. It would stand to reason beastmen might retain natural instincts to hunt their preferred pray. Like that foxen would hunt the rabbits. Given humans seem to be the primary meet source in your game you can pretty much assume that anyone and everyone but the vampires and liches and other similar entities are about the only one's not with one foot sitting on someone else's dinner plate.
Everything starts from the fact that the city's survival depends on constantly spending sparks, which means constantly generating new sparks, which means converting some renewable resources into sparks. Sparks derive from souls. The Vatican is at the heart of this process, and incidentally stakes a claim to all pregnant females. Anyone who doesn't toe the line set by the Vatican finds themselves short of sparks and unable to ward off the fogs. So the great houses enforce the Vatican's laws within their territories. The Vatican's laws are set up to ensure the city's survival and to maintain the hierarchy of power and the social order. As with any centralized and authoritarian government, there is of course ample corruption, constant shifting of political alliances and policies as various interest groups seek to manipulate the economic landscape, and plenty of bureaucracy that only benefits bureaucrats.Frankly, the way other stuff I read and what you described are the base I would estimate the cities survival time would be less than 10 days before all hell broke loose.
Each of the great houses maintain organized militias and enforce order within their territory. Even being a resident of the city is a privilege that has to be earned and constantly maintained by providing value to society (or living off the labor of others, for those who have sufficient wealth or power to do so).A city won't last if the people in it don't feel safe. You have nothing that prevents a citizen from ending up on someone else's dinner plate. There would need to be some sort of truce between races in the city as citizens and an authority powerful enough to enforce it. Think large scale military force that can put down riots between the most powerful of the races if it happens.
The thing about crimes is they happen because people think they can get away with them and not get caught. They stop when people tend to feel the risk out weighs the gain. Some times threat of life isn't enough. Something more immediate and long term tends to have more weight. If you kill someone its done and over with as far as they are concerned. But tell them they will spend the rest of their life being tortured in some gruesome way. Or cut their limbs off and force them to live without them. That tends to have a more lasting effect in people's minds.
Try upgrading to 2.2.3.Just started the tutorial with guild house and game keeps freezing on me when I click on end day.
Hey, it worked! Thanks fren.Try upgrading to 2.2.3.You must be registered to see the links
You only need to download the "complete edition" code link (~40MB), not the media. Make sure you also enable "ignore version check when loading" in the Game drop-down menu.
The game's own text is the only source of lore I'm using. What each of the NPCs say and the descriptions of various activities and places.
"moral judgment", exactly moral as in right and wrong, good or evil not legal or illegal.If you look at nature, there are plenty of cannibalistic species, and when put in conditions where cannibalism is a survival imperative, even species that do not normally practice it will start doing so. To describe cannibalism as evil is simply a moral judgment. The fact is, in a scenario where there is a constant influx of meat that requires zero effort to obtain (it literally walks itself to you), and where there is insufficient space to keep it and the prospect of returning it to where it came from is chancy at best and extremely high risk and expense even if possible... well, a lot of that meat is going to be disposed of one way or another.
It's one of the ways you can tell we aren't animals. Animals don't behave as bad as us unless we teach them to.Humans are very good at rationalizing behaving like animals, and humans are extremely good at hurting other humans.
We were talking about the one's living in the city not the one's in the fog.Missing the point. The threat of the fogs includes the presence of creatures that do not follow laws and are extremely dangerous. Those creatures sometimes emerge from the fogs and rampage. This is a constant threat that the city counters with walls and soldiers.
Men are easier to catch and control than women. Women are naturally suspicious. Men are in general stupid. They think they can take care of themselves. If they end up in an odd place they look for a way to survive and entertainment and food. All can be used to trap them easily.The is a constant influx of both men and women through the fogs. The women are enslaved and the men are left to fend for themselves in the slums (if they aren't killed immediately). The facts that there are no male slaves and that men are not slaughtered for meat are not explained, but it stands to reason that the consequences of enslaving or eating males are prohibitive, otherwise there would be a market for both.
Your character is a member of the guild. He goes to the wall and catches slaves. How are those people to prove to anyone they are a citizen? If it was a simple as saying I'm a citizen every slave captured would say it. What about citizens in Rome who go into debt they aren't enslaved? Are they just allowed to not pay their debt? So we make up some fake documents to show they owed a high debt and refused to pay. Most likely people sell bank notes and debts to other people. You have a loan shark in this game or money lender. So I bought the note from him because he had no means of collecting I paid him 20cent on the dollar. I promised to take it out of their hide for not paying.To be clear, the great houses are factions, not families. Naturally there are some assassinations and abductions happening all the time, but "making slaves out of people" is an exclusive privilege of the slavers guild. If someone who isn't sanctioned by the slavers guild tries to pass off some citizens as slaves, the buyer is also committing a crime, and the citizens who are being "enslaved" also know this. If they are constantly imprisoned to avoid any outside contact then they're not really slaves, they're prisoners. Consider what happens when someone from an organized crime family is abducted or killed. If the family doesn't know who to blame, they might go after everyone they suspect, or investigate and call in favors until they find someone to blame. Likewise, if a citizen disappears in Rome, the absence will be noted and their faction and allies will expend some amount of effort to find them or identify and punish the responsible parties. The amount of effort will depend on how valued the citizen was.
A female can't stay in a pen the same way a cow can without suffering massive side effects which would mean running her back and forth to a doctor. Worse would be the psychological damage it would cause. There is a reason prison cells have grown in size. So you are going to need a bedding area and more. Also it is unhealthy to eat in certain position for humans unlike animals. You end up with issues like Achalasia where they can't eat.Human females arrive at Rome every day on their own. No cost to import. Cows would have to be transported by armed guards. Expensive! It's not possible to breed cows in Rome to produce more cows. Each and every cow would need to be imported. The space where you would keep the cows is space not available for keeping humans. The cost efficiency of cow vs. cow girl milk production is debatable when you consider that lactation in Rome is augmented and that cow girls are useful for more than food production.
Your saying the vatican gets sparks from the infants at birth.Rome builds permanent structures in the form of city walls and gates and builds temporary fortifications around the city as rallying points for soldiers whose job is to deal with the constant influx of dangerous creatures from the fogs. Building inside the fogs is impractical. Magic is costly (literally consuming sparks, which originate from the flame of creation, a portion of which is found in living souls . . .). Rome expends sparks daily on rituals to push back the fogs, which on average maintains a certain amount of space between the walls of the city and the edge of the fogs, but the position of that border shifts. Consequently, the slums outside the walls are at constant risk of being consumed by the fogs. Which is why that land is left as slums instead of being moved inside the walls. The Vatican supplies the sparks for the rituals, which makes everyone in the city dependent on the Vatican for survival. (Think, where does the Vatican get the sparks from?)
What happens when the corpulent wears off of the dead girls body. Suddenly you though you ate a steak and find out all you ate was a bites worth.The feed used for slaves designated as pigs can make a girl corpulent in a matter of days, at a cost of health. Evidently it also produces a marketable flavor profile. Your proposal to apply other forms of transformative magic assumes that such transformative magic is both possible and cost effective. Transformative magics aren't necessarily permanent. What happens inside a person who eats transformed meat when the transformation wears off?
Your training women to fight and use magic. You use magic in the enslavement of them. Why not use the women with a binding on them teach them to go through the fog and bring what you want back if they survive 10 trips set them free they can stay on the other side rather than return on the 10th trip. This way the population is controlled, you get use of the women. Women who don't want to take the risk will most likely voluntarily enter into servitude.Every day new humans arrive. Vampires keep some as cattle and turn some into new vampires, but there is not enough space to keep them all. There needs to be constant culling simply to maintain a stable population.
My point was you have all these supposed races of beings there but you entirely ignore their own natures and potentials.Not seeing your point here.
So no other race other than human's has a soul? If that isn't the case what I said above all races and groups should be slaves.Everything starts from the fact that the city's survival depends on constantly spending sparks, which means constantly generating new sparks, which means converting some renewable resources into sparks. Sparks derive from souls. The Vatican is at the heart of this process, and incidentally stakes a claim to all pregnant females. Anyone who doesn't toe the line set by the Vatican finds themselves short of sparks and unable to ward off the fogs. So the great houses enforce the Vatican's laws within their territories. The Vatican's laws are set up to ensure the city's survival and to maintain the hierarchy of power and the social order. As with any centralized and authoritarian government, there is of course ample corruption, constant shifting of political alliances and policies as various interest groups seek to manipulate the economic landscape, and plenty of bureaucracy that only benefits bureaucrats.
What proof does any person hold that they are a citizen and not someone who walked in from the fog?Each of the great houses maintain organized militias and enforce order within their territory. Even being a resident of the city is a privilege that has to be earned and constantly maintained by providing value to society (or living off the labor of others, for those who have sufficient wealth or power to do so).
The original author of Валет Плетей ( Jack-o-nine-tails) goes by the name OldHuntsman. He is the creator of the setting for this game as well as the slave training system which makes up the core of the gameplay. A lot of other talented people have added to this game over the years. They have built up the game's world, improved upon the systems, sights, sounds and translated the text to other languages.First, the only reason I am telling you this stuff is so you can fix the plot holes.
I don't want to be the one to spoil this belief for you. This indicates to me that you see the world in a very different way than I see it. The good news is that there is a lot of other content that won't challenge your beliefs.Animals don't behave as bad as us unless we teach them to.
The world of this game is large and much different from our own world. Many parts of it are never explained. If the game were more along the lines of Papers, Please the details of the systems and methods of identification would be more important.How are those people to prove to anyone they are a citizen?
I understand the world just fine. It doesn't matter what society you look at be it an urban city, a small town, company, office, military, prison... How things work effects stability. When things become to unbalanced shit falls apart.The original author of Валет Плетей ( Jack-o-nine-tails) goes by the name OldHuntsman. He is the creator of the setting for this game as well as the slave training system which makes up the core of the gameplay. A lot of other talented people have added to this game over the years. They have built up the game's world, improved upon the systems, sights, sounds and translated the text to other languages.
It seems like you are having a hard time understanding this world and I don't fault you for that. These things that you see as plot holes are part of what makes this world interesting to me.
Let see, I hunt, camp, fish, x-military and I still own a farm.I don't want to be the one to spoil this belief for you. This indicates to me that you see the world in a very different way than I see it. The good news is that there is a lot of other content that won't challenge your beliefs.
Again there are things that make a society work and things that will tear it apart.The world of this game is large and much different from our own world. Many parts of it are never explained. If the game were more along the lines of Papers, Please the details of the systems and methods of identification would be more important.
You raise valid points but I don't think there's any definitive answer available. We are told by fiat that the society does work, and some facts about it. We're free to try to fill in the blanks and imagine how such a society could function. Do we have to write explanations into the game? I don't think so. There's room for multiple interpretations.There is literally nothing he's offered to actually protect citizens from preying on one another though I pointed that out several time.
And that's the primary problem. "Because, I said so."You raise valid points but I don't think there's any definitive answer available. We are told by fiat that the society does work, and some facts about it. We're free to try to fill in the blanks and imagine how such a society could function. Do we have to write explanations into the game? I don't think so. There's room for multiple interpretations.
I'd suggest calming down ^^And that's the primary problem. "Because, I said so."
Basically anyone that has an inkling of human and social behavior or history is just supposed to accept what they know won't work and pretend it does.
As if that made it impossible for Jont's world to viably exist. This is not:Men are easier to catch and control than women. Women are naturally suspicious. Men are in general stupid. [...]
Ever heard the term Shanghai or Crimping?
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You must be registered to see the links- This guy shanghaid 100 men in a single evening one time!
This is "nitpicking on a fantasy universe with pre-conceived dogmas of how a world is supposed to work".an inkling of human and social behavior or history
thus putting on us the burden to defend the game diegesis' alleged coherence, and change the lore to your liking.plot holes
I only have an issue with fictional works that have blatant issues with them.I'd suggest calming down ^^
You made a few bold claims based on anecdotical evidence:
As if that made it impossible for Jont's world to viably exist. This is not:
This is "nitpicking on a fantasy universe with pre-conceived dogmas of how a world is supposed to work".
... I get it though, we don't all have the same suspension of disbelief. Maybe yours works in a way that you have to heavily criticize a universe until every objection ends up falling flat so that everything finally clicks and make total sense. The problem is that you were quick to assume that your "interrogations" were in fact:
thus putting on us the burden to defend the game diegesis' alleged coherence, and change the lore to your liking.
I'd argue that your interrogations are valid but your claims have just as much of "Because, I said so" than what you accuse our justifications to have.
There's nothing wrong with challenging our preconceived beliefs according to which the game has to make total internal sense, but you went two step further and kind of went with "my questionnements = inconsistencies you guys have to fix" and "my anecdotally backed opinions = objective truth based on understanding the mechanisms of human science".
I'd suggest that you answer your own questions with your own justifications. Only female slaves are being seen in your gameplay? Come up with hypothesis. There's only human meet inside the city market available for you to buy? Come up with a rational explanation. Gaps are meant to be filled; better that they are filled by yourself than by us, whom have come up with our own already, as ours might not satisfy your sense of cohesiveness (and that's fine).
I'd argue that it's more important to make the game interesting than challenging. As I understand it the money mechanics, paying rent and buying items, exists mainly to put a timer on the player. The idea being that with infinite time training any of the girls is easy and would make for a boring game, so by introducing a time limit the player is forced to find efficient strategies which makes the game interesting.No... but I want it to be possible as soon as we balanced everything out and we start to implement new features.
The thing is that allowing a girl to prostitute herself (and any kind of extra activities like selling her paintings) means extra income, which means having to rebalance the game economics entirely. And it's already difficult for us to make the game challenging as soon as you start to sell B+ slaves. So yeah, the idea is there but it'll be a Chinese puzzle to implement.