QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]
I'm back long before I wanted to be again, was hoping i could be done here for at least a month. The request to not respond and leave me alone for a while applied to you too augustus, i see the notification and then feel a nagging compulsion to stop what i'm doing and respond before i'm actually ready to. Whatever let's get this over with, I'm calm now, or as calm as i can be given how much this topic infuriates me and that i'm a generally angry and cynical person. Qwerty i appreciate the insight into what's happening behind the scenes, your explanation makes more sense than my mind running wild with theories in a lot of ways. You're definitely correct that me being so bent out of shape was impeding my ability to think rationally and clearly articulate my thoughts, I had also recognised this which is why I'd tried to excuse myself multiple times. Past a certain point it becomes a non-productive feedback loop of poorly focused rage. Let's keep it brief this time to avoid that happening again alright?
I take great offense to the implication i'm entitled to and demanding you implement the changes i want. You can do whatever you want with your version but i can say whatever i want about it too. Frankly I don't think there'd be any point to it at this stage at least in the conventional way changes are implemented - I don't agree with either of your visions for the game, there's almost nothing you've added i don't find baffling and detrimental. It's not worth addressing all of them individually since it's a significantly shorter list to say what i do like, which i've already done. About all i can agree on is fix what's objectively broken, the lore and general tone of the game should be respected (mostly, i think this is a stumbling point sometimes) and changes should be considered carefully, though for the latter i don't think you're being anywhere near careful enough.
When i gave up on your branch (around when ai image inclusion was announced) there were about a dozen things i'd identified as worse which other players had repeatedly raised as issues and been dismissed which usually results in said player leaving the thread. It's the same old arguments no-one's satisfied with each time too but if they don't fight you over it it's treated as resolved and ignored, saw one pop up again in the last few days. But as evidenced by my reaction to this if you do kick up a fuss about it the response is "whoa guy, no need for all that, we are listening". Lose-lose situation. There were more still that felt wrong but i couldn't fully identify at the time - skill rust, soft stat caps, more strict methods needed for improving stats, increased item reliance, item effect changes, taming changes, stat drop on refusal, fear changes, devotion changes, spoil changes etc being a few examples i now know about and there's almost certainly more i still don't. All of the former is poorly explained or not at all and intentional or not this is a fuck you to new players (added complexity to what was already a near impenetrable hyper complex game in its most primitive state) and legacy players that liked how things used to be. It caters specifically and only to hardcore vets with an at least fairly optimal playstyle that want more and new challenges, even then only sometimes because 2.2.2 was too much for most of them as well.
The recent nudges in the direction of what other demographics want lately are just that, nudges and ultimately insufficient. Bandaid fixes that don't address the root cause to problems this version created for the benefit of a tiny niche and to the detriment of everyone else. You often "fix" things that weren't broken and when players say they hate it IF you listen you don't revert the change, or at least not fully, and instead you change something else tangentially related in the hope it'll counteract it but this ultimately leaves the game in a worse state than if you'd done nothing at all. For example the economy changes - you've increased the price of food, various items and rent as well as made it near mandatory to move house into more expensive districts as the game goes on, players don't like it so you give some characters extra starting money as a solution to the problem. Except this doesn't solve the issue at all, it just delays encountering it if you pick one of those characters which is potentially a bad thing for new players if they develop bad habits and don't notice they're going backwards until its too late. Also for anyone picking a character that doesn't get the starting safety net this does nothing but immediately make the game harder and more restrictive in playstyle which is something very few want. Character selection is more than just difficulty selection, there's also more subjective elements like enjoying their playstyle, portrait, backstory, house affiliation etc. - I pick fenris the vast majority of the time, almost everything about him just feels right to me. For versions before he existed it was almost always doc instead and the only other character worth mentioning is johnny who i play when the mood strikes me, the rest i played once either because i was brand new, as a novelty i ultimately decided i didn't like, or not at all because i can tell i won't like them at face value. Saying i have to pick one of them instead now to get a comparable experience is both insulting and not true, the problem would persist even then as well as having to use other characters causing new problems.
Qwerty is likely correct that 1.7.5 hard is still easier than even 2.2.7.1 easy and i recognise that's probably what he meant rather than "lol git gud", or at at least I hope so and will be charitable in this assumption. Since checking in again after the year long absence none of the issues that caused me to leave were fixed and additional baffling changes have since shown up - arena slaves being limited to 2/5 styles unless you fork out several hundred sparks buying specific armour sets for them in order to use the other 3 being one example. That one doesn't negatively affect me at all since i always pick heavy weapons anyway (consider my personality - blunt, crude, tactless, aggressive, easily angered, zero patience for civilized bullshit, honest, open and straightforward sometimes to a fault - why would i use any other style? Just cave the fuckers skull in right now and be done with it) so this is in no way a selfish thing but i still think it's awful for everyone else who likes those styles and for the game as a whole. I truly believe changes like this and your responses to them have cost you a huge chunk of your playerbase already and only wierdos like me are likely to return to check the current state again. Also since this is a clear pattern now even if you DID make all the changes i want it's highly likely when you make changes later i'll object to those too.
Here's my vision for the game:
I want 1.7.5 with bugfixes and QOL improvements. That's all for me personally, though a good solution to new players bouncing off of it is also high priority. If changes have to be made that i don't like but will bring them in then fine it's worth it but I think it's possible to find a way to make every group truly happy and not just a grumbling "fine, i guess" middle ground. Anything beyond that should be VERY heavily considered before implementation which i don't think is the current process, seems to be just changing things constantly and primarily based on what you and your inner circle want to play.
To make your branch into what myself and anyone else who thought old versions were fine and just need some maintenance want you'd have to rip out the majority of your changes and start over. I think that's unreasonable. The damage is already done, it's way too late and probably wouldn't fix anything - it's unlikely to be what the current dev team or remaining player niche wants so at least some of them will abandon it too. Most of the players who do want that jumped ship a long time ago and probably aren't coming back, how would they even know they're being catered to now if they've stopped checking the thread? It would make the game more accessible to new players again so the rate of them picking it up would increase but only comparatively, the game was never accessible except to those stubborn enough to scale the learning cliff and this is still the case, 1.7.5 is the second hardest branch of the game to exist behind yours so being in line with it won't be new player friendly either. Better tutorial is nice (in theory, higher complexity now makes it and the game harder than ever) but another bandaid fix, most players don't want to sit through all that and would rather just learn as they go which is less viable than ever. Annoyingly since all of the issues i have with 1.7.5 are fixed here that means you made the version i'd want already right at the start of development but even your first release had other changes i think make the game worse overall. This is why even with some of my requests implemented and every version of the game currently accessible fresh in my mind I still prefer 1.7.5. Despite all of its flaws, being very difficult but still possible (for now) to find, years of neglect and large chunks of it missing - even in that awful state i think it's still the best version of jont.
1.7.5 being in such an abysmal state also annoys me and fault lies at least partially with the current dev team, you had access to the game, the gif pack, the image pack and moo mod - possibly even more than that but made no attempt to preserve it - you just used it as a basis for your version then discarded it to be forgotten like all the other jont versions now lost to time. The curse remains unbroken except that you didn't abandon your version when players near universally hated some of your releases, i'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing yet but it's different at least. Also one of you mentioned updating the wiki, please don't do this or at least not in a way that overwrites the old information. If the wiki is updated now first off it'll be pointless for anyone playing your branch since the information players would want from it is starting to be included in game but secondly it'll make it incorrect for anyone who wants to stick with legacy versions and we NEED that resource, it's even more history erasure for a game already plagued by it. Of course i'm pissed about all of this and i have a right to express that anger.
As for demands and entitlements i think that's deliberate negative framing to try and manipulate opinion to your viewpoint but if you insist on using it then sure here's a list of things i demand and feel entitled to. Should be comprehensive but if not anything i'm forgetting is along the same vein. Also all of this applies in reverse, you'll get the same treatment i expect.
I demand:
You don't lie to me or use any dishonest or manipulative tactics.
You respect my time and don't expect a 3000 word essay on the pros and cons of my suggestions for it not to be glossed over, or that i larp as Xenophon for several days debating it with you.
I am entitled to:
My opinion and the right to express it uncensored.
That's it. I don't think i'm being unreasonable here. If you agree to this then I'll clarify my position on whatever you're confused about, briefly, and rejoin the discussion as long as it doesn't drag on for too long. If you think this is unacceptable then i won't comment here again, it's not worth the time or mood cost and 1.7.5 is still good enough as far as i'm concerned. I've given it a lot of thought and have one idea that i think will make almost everyone happy and be future proof. However it'll probably be a lot of work initially so if you are going to do this you should save it for a later main release so you can get that abandoned tag lifted.
Fuck me this post was meant to be short, look at all that shit up there and i've barely scratched the surface of what's wrong.
I take great offense to the implication i'm entitled to and demanding you implement the changes i want. You can do whatever you want with your version but i can say whatever i want about it too. Frankly I don't think there'd be any point to it at this stage at least in the conventional way changes are implemented - I don't agree with either of your visions for the game, there's almost nothing you've added i don't find baffling and detrimental. It's not worth addressing all of them individually since it's a significantly shorter list to say what i do like, which i've already done. About all i can agree on is fix what's objectively broken, the lore and general tone of the game should be respected (mostly, i think this is a stumbling point sometimes) and changes should be considered carefully, though for the latter i don't think you're being anywhere near careful enough.
When i gave up on your branch (around when ai image inclusion was announced) there were about a dozen things i'd identified as worse which other players had repeatedly raised as issues and been dismissed which usually results in said player leaving the thread. It's the same old arguments no-one's satisfied with each time too but if they don't fight you over it it's treated as resolved and ignored, saw one pop up again in the last few days. But as evidenced by my reaction to this if you do kick up a fuss about it the response is "whoa guy, no need for all that, we are listening". Lose-lose situation. There were more still that felt wrong but i couldn't fully identify at the time - skill rust, soft stat caps, more strict methods needed for improving stats, increased item reliance, item effect changes, taming changes, stat drop on refusal, fear changes, devotion changes, spoil changes etc being a few examples i now know about and there's almost certainly more i still don't. All of the former is poorly explained or not at all and intentional or not this is a fuck you to new players (added complexity to what was already a near impenetrable hyper complex game in its most primitive state) and legacy players that liked how things used to be. It caters specifically and only to hardcore vets with an at least fairly optimal playstyle that want more and new challenges, even then only sometimes because 2.2.2 was too much for most of them as well.
The recent nudges in the direction of what other demographics want lately are just that, nudges and ultimately insufficient. Bandaid fixes that don't address the root cause to problems this version created for the benefit of a tiny niche and to the detriment of everyone else. You often "fix" things that weren't broken and when players say they hate it IF you listen you don't revert the change, or at least not fully, and instead you change something else tangentially related in the hope it'll counteract it but this ultimately leaves the game in a worse state than if you'd done nothing at all. For example the economy changes - you've increased the price of food, various items and rent as well as made it near mandatory to move house into more expensive districts as the game goes on, players don't like it so you give some characters extra starting money as a solution to the problem. Except this doesn't solve the issue at all, it just delays encountering it if you pick one of those characters which is potentially a bad thing for new players if they develop bad habits and don't notice they're going backwards until its too late. Also for anyone picking a character that doesn't get the starting safety net this does nothing but immediately make the game harder and more restrictive in playstyle which is something very few want. Character selection is more than just difficulty selection, there's also more subjective elements like enjoying their playstyle, portrait, backstory, house affiliation etc. - I pick fenris the vast majority of the time, almost everything about him just feels right to me. For versions before he existed it was almost always doc instead and the only other character worth mentioning is johnny who i play when the mood strikes me, the rest i played once either because i was brand new, as a novelty i ultimately decided i didn't like, or not at all because i can tell i won't like them at face value. Saying i have to pick one of them instead now to get a comparable experience is both insulting and not true, the problem would persist even then as well as having to use other characters causing new problems.
Qwerty is likely correct that 1.7.5 hard is still easier than even 2.2.7.1 easy and i recognise that's probably what he meant rather than "lol git gud", or at at least I hope so and will be charitable in this assumption. Since checking in again after the year long absence none of the issues that caused me to leave were fixed and additional baffling changes have since shown up - arena slaves being limited to 2/5 styles unless you fork out several hundred sparks buying specific armour sets for them in order to use the other 3 being one example. That one doesn't negatively affect me at all since i always pick heavy weapons anyway (consider my personality - blunt, crude, tactless, aggressive, easily angered, zero patience for civilized bullshit, honest, open and straightforward sometimes to a fault - why would i use any other style? Just cave the fuckers skull in right now and be done with it) so this is in no way a selfish thing but i still think it's awful for everyone else who likes those styles and for the game as a whole. I truly believe changes like this and your responses to them have cost you a huge chunk of your playerbase already and only wierdos like me are likely to return to check the current state again. Also since this is a clear pattern now even if you DID make all the changes i want it's highly likely when you make changes later i'll object to those too.
Here's my vision for the game:
I want 1.7.5 with bugfixes and QOL improvements. That's all for me personally, though a good solution to new players bouncing off of it is also high priority. If changes have to be made that i don't like but will bring them in then fine it's worth it but I think it's possible to find a way to make every group truly happy and not just a grumbling "fine, i guess" middle ground. Anything beyond that should be VERY heavily considered before implementation which i don't think is the current process, seems to be just changing things constantly and primarily based on what you and your inner circle want to play.
To make your branch into what myself and anyone else who thought old versions were fine and just need some maintenance want you'd have to rip out the majority of your changes and start over. I think that's unreasonable. The damage is already done, it's way too late and probably wouldn't fix anything - it's unlikely to be what the current dev team or remaining player niche wants so at least some of them will abandon it too. Most of the players who do want that jumped ship a long time ago and probably aren't coming back, how would they even know they're being catered to now if they've stopped checking the thread? It would make the game more accessible to new players again so the rate of them picking it up would increase but only comparatively, the game was never accessible except to those stubborn enough to scale the learning cliff and this is still the case, 1.7.5 is the second hardest branch of the game to exist behind yours so being in line with it won't be new player friendly either. Better tutorial is nice (in theory, higher complexity now makes it and the game harder than ever) but another bandaid fix, most players don't want to sit through all that and would rather just learn as they go which is less viable than ever. Annoyingly since all of the issues i have with 1.7.5 are fixed here that means you made the version i'd want already right at the start of development but even your first release had other changes i think make the game worse overall. This is why even with some of my requests implemented and every version of the game currently accessible fresh in my mind I still prefer 1.7.5. Despite all of its flaws, being very difficult but still possible (for now) to find, years of neglect and large chunks of it missing - even in that awful state i think it's still the best version of jont.
1.7.5 being in such an abysmal state also annoys me and fault lies at least partially with the current dev team, you had access to the game, the gif pack, the image pack and moo mod - possibly even more than that but made no attempt to preserve it - you just used it as a basis for your version then discarded it to be forgotten like all the other jont versions now lost to time. The curse remains unbroken except that you didn't abandon your version when players near universally hated some of your releases, i'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing yet but it's different at least. Also one of you mentioned updating the wiki, please don't do this or at least not in a way that overwrites the old information. If the wiki is updated now first off it'll be pointless for anyone playing your branch since the information players would want from it is starting to be included in game but secondly it'll make it incorrect for anyone who wants to stick with legacy versions and we NEED that resource, it's even more history erasure for a game already plagued by it. Of course i'm pissed about all of this and i have a right to express that anger.
As for demands and entitlements i think that's deliberate negative framing to try and manipulate opinion to your viewpoint but if you insist on using it then sure here's a list of things i demand and feel entitled to. Should be comprehensive but if not anything i'm forgetting is along the same vein. Also all of this applies in reverse, you'll get the same treatment i expect.
I demand:
You don't lie to me or use any dishonest or manipulative tactics.
You respect my time and don't expect a 3000 word essay on the pros and cons of my suggestions for it not to be glossed over, or that i larp as Xenophon for several days debating it with you.
I am entitled to:
My opinion and the right to express it uncensored.
That's it. I don't think i'm being unreasonable here. If you agree to this then I'll clarify my position on whatever you're confused about, briefly, and rejoin the discussion as long as it doesn't drag on for too long. If you think this is unacceptable then i won't comment here again, it's not worth the time or mood cost and 1.7.5 is still good enough as far as i'm concerned. I've given it a lot of thought and have one idea that i think will make almost everyone happy and be future proof. However it'll probably be a lot of work initially so if you are going to do this you should save it for a later main release so you can get that abandoned tag lifted.
Fuck me this post was meant to be short, look at all that shit up there and i've barely scratched the surface of what's wrong.
- Aug 31, 2022
- 109
- 376
Amazing, such a massive write up on something that can only be described as an opinion.
At least the ending came with a conclusion " 1.7.5 is still good enough as far as i'm concerned ", which youd think should be the first thing that come to mind when writing this essay.
At least the ending came with a conclusion " 1.7.5 is still good enough as far as i'm concerned ", which youd think should be the first thing that come to mind when writing this essay.
Answered in line ->
The intention with all of the tweaks to slaver progression is to make starting choices more impactful. Took a lifetime to achieve those levels...
-> i absolutely agree with that realistic approach for starting proficiencies. But as a game it feels bad when you have to play it and spend a whole in-game year to raise a skill from B to A.
If a skill drops, you exceeded the soft cap.
-> i'd like to be able to see the caps on my currently played character
High diligence is fairly common even with low rankings.
-> not saying it's impossible, but the messages don't have a colored blurb to indicate the performance. Could you color the "deserves a perfect score" text in green for S result for example, like it's done for lessons/trainers? I think it could help the players.
This change was to close a nonsensical loophole of spamming deliberately low-quality lessons as a means of raising slaver skill faster.
->understandable. Linked to the above point, color telling the player when it happens would help clarity.
Depends on play style. Do you spend a long time on one slave before starting the next or do you work on short and long term projects in parallel? Skills have other methods to raise to D besides lessons. If you just play without focusing on slaver skills, their rise is a pleasant surprise/reward instead of a source of frustration.
->i work 1 slave at a time, i don't mind spending some more days. parallel projects aren't my thing in this game, too much micromanaging. i can be a bit of a perfectionist sometimes so when my mind says i want X to be green, who am i to say no and it can frustrate me. but that's a me thing.
->i'd like to have a progress score on the skill level like there is for slaver strength.
Magic also rises through application. Seems quite realistic if it's easier to master in fine arts than in medicine.
->the magic skill states that only magic of the highest applicable rank counts for this. so when your skill is B, only Tremedio counts. And you're probably not casting that often, i know i'm not casting it more than once per slave early, or perhaps never if i don't need to push for 4 fear early. I'd rather raise fear over a couple more days with less despair to avoid damaging base mental stats.
Slaver's energy is best spent on sex training as no one else can do it. An assistant is a "free" teacher for common skills once the slave is obedient enough.
->well, IF you have an assistant. it's more for the early game where you have to split your little energy between everything, especially when staying in the slums for a while. And, does assistant lessons raise slaver skills? if yes, it's contradictory because speaks of lesson that the slaver conducts himself.
Combat requires investment to advance. As does food.
-> they do, but i like spending more sparks than neurons for this.
Slaver and slaves were never the same. The continuity of slaver stats makes it possible to hover at the border and "maintain" with constant effort.
->i remember staying at the border of B/A slaver strength for a while because of cooking level, had to sex my assistant once to get that +1 and get back to A STR then train my slave's stamina, haha. it can feel a bit weird bt it's honestly alright.
It's not the same. Young fiend gives 1. Huge fiend gives 4.
->didn't really realize there was a difference. grinding 500 pts from A to S is just such a big gap compared to B -> A. It's the cap, i get it, but still discouraging.
Mood from clothing is very dynamic.
->i know traits can affect a slave's liking for clothing, bronies definitely don't hate pony gear (actually they get a mood bonus iirc). I guess it's fine as it is, it's just when tweaking an outfit to stay in a positive mood that it can get annoying but you can learn that easily per slave in a couple of days.
Maybe. Where? When switching difficulties?
->honestly no idea. switching difficulties is probably not meant to happen often so having a popup at that moment sounds good to me.
Thought we fixed that already?
->apparently not on may 31st 2.2.7 build, sorry. it happened to me with brony and pet slave. doesn't seem to happen for some other traits like nurse.
Examples?
->nothing comes to mind as is, it's just my feeling overall. Do stuff, hope it pushes things in the right direction.
-> i'm sorry. competitive rock paper scissors doesn't get more hardcore than this.
Yes, mood limits meal prep quality when not supervised. If skill is sufficient but meal quality is lacking, stock more variety of ingredients. Meat is optional.
->ah, so that's why. but no one supervises the assistant when she's the one cooking! Also, when an ingredient reaches 0, sometimes i get a downgraded meal (lower recipes) instead of assistant doing groceries again? Having the ingredient reach 0 before cooking when i have the "buy X" rule active feels weird. If i ask for cheese, i expect a constant supply of dairy goodness.
Unless i'm mad and assistant with ecstatic mood can still mess up (i usually fuck assistant to get her arousal down before she cooks to avoid distractions)
->
Well. Since I have completed all special tasks in my recent Johny gameplay, I do not pay much attention to latest updates. Howerver, I still found a BUG. If you end a day when slave refuses to wear what she is wearing due to mood or some other reasons. The day counter will increase but you will not experience the day you passed. Here is a save. Firstly, I take this bug wrongly, so do not pay much attention to this save's name. I just not want to change its name.
Made a change in the latest dev build to skip auto meal prep if ate already and unable to produce better than canned food (unless living without a kitchen where no higher quality is possible).
First saved game, yeah. I describled what will happen in old version. There is no same problem in new version. The cow's weight stopped dercreasing endlessly. I just think the new mechanic introduced to restore this problem is a little bit weird, at least, not fit my own intention. The huge calorie in some particular day makes Cow's weight increase not so smooth as it used to be and I find no good reason to explain this situation. "The farmhand finds the cow starve and feed her more in the following day?"
Second saved game, I just want to stopping her from fatting. I can not tolerate a Corpulent slave due to my own taste, so I sold her, since I do not have empty slot for her. Of course, I am too lazy to manage to spare time excrise her. Especially the micromanagement of this game is so time-ocuppying.
Third saved game. I am not sure but I think if the assistant starve in one day, then she will lose one point energy in the following day. Is my guess right or not? If right, I do not think it is a good design, since it is an inevitable way to lose daily energy.
Well, I still have many opinions, and it needs time to translate into English. And I think some of them hard to change.
Anyway, thanks a lot. I have spent a lot of time with this game happy.
Wow, you have found and solved this problem.
"Such delligence deserves a reward!"
LOL
The cow is more hungry.
In latest dev build, I've reduced daily calories for egglayers not on fattening diet to avoid unwanted weight gain.
Yes, that is correct. But with the current design, if you are careful with her calories and consume enough for her to lose weight without starving, she will start eating more. So she adapts to how much you use her.
It's harder to reply when you format your post that way. (Reply/quote only captures what is quoted above.)
Isn't it just a matter of aligning expectations to a slower progression?
Thinking about how best to address this.
I’ll add this to the queue
Unlike attributes, skill progress has always been opaque. I’m reluctant to piece this veil.
We need to fix that text, it’s not correct. If you auto-cast magic you’ll eventually get to S+ on those spells alone.
You can train an assistant in the slums too. Assistant training slave does not raise slaver skills. In early game unless playing with an S+ teacher it’s more efficient to use other methods to raise common skills.
Assistant shopping happens before cooking. If you see this again upload your end day autosave from the night before.
Fuck off peanut gallery shit stirrer. I made that opinion clear right at the start when i said i don't agree with this dev teams design philosophies and in a previous post where I realised i miss 1.7.5 and said i intend to go back to it. The point of it all was also clearly to elaborate that there's no point addressing individual concerns and solutions to problems i have with this branch, there's just too many of them. Maybe i am just an old man yelling at clouds now but there's also a ton of examples of my theory being correct. Both this branch and the russian one which are all that's left in active dev are objectively bigger gameplay departures from what the game used to be between 1.0 and 1.7.5. Almost none of those old versions are well preserved and if they were i wouldn't care what any other branch does, i'd have my version i'm happy with. How dare I have an opinion and express it, what a mystery why i rarely think it's worthwhile anymore.
To keep it short make every change since then optional, a gui launch settings exe where you can enable or disable checkboxes for whatever changes appeal to each player. Have a few presets like your vision, qwerty's vision, legacy with no changes except bug fixes and qol changes etc. That would bring me back at least, while i don't think the issues with legacy were particularly bad i'd still prefer legacy's issues fixed so at that stage i'd consider your version better. I have no clue how you'd get the word out to the others that gave up, but if they do come back to try it we'll find out whether i'm right. Either way you'll be able to gather data on what most players find ideal and just leave that as the default settings while also giving total freedom to customise for anyone that disagrees. The stainless steel mod for medieval 2 total war has a more simplistic version of this mostly focused on ai behaviour as an example, don't have it installed right now to get a screenshot but it's a simple concept and i'm confident you get the picture.
More optionality heard. As you rightly called out, a full 1.7.5 emulation mode would at this point be a massive effort since we would have to branch the entire codebase with “if 1.7.5 do old thing”. Plus deciding for every difference whether it constitutes a "bug fix" or a "qol change".
Before going to that extent, I suggest we examine each of your points of contention in the current version to see if we can bridge the gap:
skill rust, soft stat caps, more strict methods needed for improving stats, increased item reliance, item effect changes, taming changes, stat drop on refusal, fear changes, devotion changes, spoil changes, economy changes, gladiatrix armor requirements
Skill rust and soft stat caps — these are the same, aren’t they? This is optional with custom starts. Which are also the answer to “I want portrait X with stats Y.”
More strict methods needed for improving stats — what do you mean by strict methods? How do you measure the problem? Time to improve stats is longer than it was in 1.7.5? On easy custom starts there is an option to adjust the training multiplier, so you can for example set the rate of progression to 2x.
Increased item reliance — could you clarify your views on the “minimum viable playstyle” that I asked about in my second-to-last response?
Item effect changes — what is the biggest problem here?
Taming changes — referring to taming being harder to raise with slaves having high nature? You want only-goes-up taming?
Stat drop on refusal — what’s the problem here? Doesn't it make sense that resisting the slaver’s will is reflected as a small reduction in obedience? You want only-goes-up obedience?
Fear/devotion/spoil — what are the problems with each of these?
Economy changes — since the risk of game over from lack of sparks is the core time limiting mechanism, costs have to be balanced around how long it takes to generate income. If you could complete training in half the time (see 2x multiplier above), how would that affect your opinion about the current economy?
Re: "made it near mandatory to move house into more expensive districts as the game goes on" this is actually the opposite of what we've done. It's entirely possible (intentionally so) to stay in one district forever if you prefer. There's an entry in slaver diary encouraging you to move up, and access to the Taurus club is gated by living standard, but it offers nothing you can't achieve in other ways.
Gladiatrix armor requirements — pony racing even in 1.7.5 required pony gear to be viable. The arena styles that now require armor are styles that use armor. I’m thinking that to better balance the unarmored styles we could add a requirement to bring your own weapon after winning the championship. Why should the arena be a source of free sparks with no investment except medical bills? Why is it possible to equip slaves with armor if it's never used?
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Look while i appreciate the attempt at dialogue to accomodate me it's just too much, i have more issues with even the latest dev version of your branch (which i like the most) than all of the other jont versions before you took over combined. It's been a month now since i started posting here again and that whole time has been an unpleasant experience i wish i hadn't started, i don't want to talk or think about this game anymore for a while. Maybe i'll come back to discuss it in the future but at the end of the day i finish playthroughs on your branch annoyed and relieved it's over instead of satisfied that i won, which isn't the case for any prior branch. Revisiting them shows that's still the case and not something that changed about me over time. It's far easier and more pleasant for me to just stay on versions i like than to came here and argue for what i want your version to be.
It was productive though in a roundabout way.
Before revisiting old versions again i hadn't realised just how much i prefer them over this one. I've figured out what versions of the game i do like, saved several from being lost forever and improved them non destructively to the best of my ability - i've restored the image pack for 1.7.5 but i'm hanging onto the gifs as well even though i don't like them. Just need moo mod now. I've made my own changes to isabella that i think are better than any other version released, but all of those are archived too. I even managed to find a copy of 1.7.3 and while i probably won't play it much it still deserves to live so we can look back on it later if nothing else. Plenty of old abandoned ideas were actually good while newer ones were awful - just look at how isabella was in default 1.7.5 for an example, then go look what she was like all the way back in 1.2.1. If we keep losing old versions we'll keep repeating the same mistakes.
Even for your branch which i'm unlikely to revisit anytime soon, if ever, there are players happier with the game now that my changes were implemented so that's productive too. But all that said if i could rewind time to before i posted here i never would've bothered either. I hope this has shown how calcified this versions playerbase has become and why different demographics will rarely speak up with those that do quickly regretting it.
If i do come back to suggest changes i'll let you know.
It was productive though in a roundabout way.
Before revisiting old versions again i hadn't realised just how much i prefer them over this one. I've figured out what versions of the game i do like, saved several from being lost forever and improved them non destructively to the best of my ability - i've restored the image pack for 1.7.5 but i'm hanging onto the gifs as well even though i don't like them. Just need moo mod now. I've made my own changes to isabella that i think are better than any other version released, but all of those are archived too. I even managed to find a copy of 1.7.3 and while i probably won't play it much it still deserves to live so we can look back on it later if nothing else. Plenty of old abandoned ideas were actually good while newer ones were awful - just look at how isabella was in default 1.7.5 for an example, then go look what she was like all the way back in 1.2.1. If we keep losing old versions we'll keep repeating the same mistakes.
Even for your branch which i'm unlikely to revisit anytime soon, if ever, there are players happier with the game now that my changes were implemented so that's productive too. But all that said if i could rewind time to before i posted here i never would've bothered either. I hope this has shown how calcified this versions playerbase has become and why different demographics will rarely speak up with those that do quickly regretting it.
If i do come back to suggest changes i'll let you know.
Thanks for the feedback you were willing to share. Looking forward to continuing the conversation if you are ever open to it.