- Jul 17, 2019
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if I remember correctly, the meaning of stoper's answer was not that.
he generally intended that a reasonable time for each update would be 2-3 months.
but that wasn't his case.
- Thread starter stoper
- Start date
he generally intended that a reasonable time for each update would be 2-3 months.
but that wasn't his case.
- Aug 23, 2020
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I get your frustration with low effort post that just bitch incessantly, but I feel like you're going too far in the other direction. I think there are ample reasons to criticize Stoper's project management skills at this point. Any artist producing a product for public consumption is going to catch criticism, and acting as if everyone should just shut up unless they have nice things to say is unreasonable. For a short time I did support him on Patreon, but it became clear that he was too inconsistent and flakey to justify my continued support. And that's the kind of feedback that he needs to hear.
More broadly I think the AVG industry is suffering from two related epidemics.
- An epidemic of low quality games- most of the games on the AVG industry are low effort shovelware. While they fill a very basic need, I think they make good games like JOHN stand out more clearly. Very few games come close to approaching JOHN in terms of overall quality. So a starved audience gravitates to a handful of games, with few alternatives.
- An epidemic failure in project management- Of the few games like JOHN, almost all in my experience struggle to balance ambition and reality. This is the most fundamental issue in project management. Players are left completely at the whim of devs that seem incapable of setting and sticking to a release schedule. We aren't talking about missing a release by a few days or a week, we're talking about a completely undefined time period. To his credit, Stoper has discussed openly how he changes the scope of each update late into the development cycle. I appreciate the honesty, but that's a horrible approach to managing your project. So we're left with games that feel like they're lost in space for months.
To me it is clear to see why these threads fill up with discontented players. The nature of the market feeds a toxic response that is neither healthy or helpful, but it's entirely predictable.
But again, I agree with you that there are too many low effort shit posters and it gets frustrating.
Stoper has always been slow. He also gets distracted making other things. He eventually delivers high quality content.
He's never going to produce content on a reliable schedule. Yet he's also not specifically blueballing people or milking the game; he's just slow and scattered.
I feel like people could look at the history for this game and either accept that's how stoper works or move on, including whether to support him on patreon. He definitely could make more money if he had better management, but stoper also hasn't given the impression that he even wants to release on a reliable schedule. I think he likes approaching art like this on his terms.
The art in this game is incredible, and I hope stoper continues to work on it. However if I were stoper, I'd pretty much never visit the negativity in this thread. If I did visit, I'd really be unmotivated to work on high quality art for people who are just going to yell at me because I'm slow and not making enough content for specific characters they like.
I think sometimes people get so caught up in creating negativity they forget that stoper doesn't have to show up for the abuse or even make this game. What's the goal? The beatings will continue until morale improves?
He's never going to produce content on a reliable schedule. Yet he's also not specifically blueballing people or milking the game; he's just slow and scattered.
I feel like people could look at the history for this game and either accept that's how stoper works or move on, including whether to support him on patreon. He definitely could make more money if he had better management, but stoper also hasn't given the impression that he even wants to release on a reliable schedule. I think he likes approaching art like this on his terms.
The art in this game is incredible, and I hope stoper continues to work on it. However if I were stoper, I'd pretty much never visit the negativity in this thread. If I did visit, I'd really be unmotivated to work on high quality art for people who are just going to yell at me because I'm slow and not making enough content for specific characters they like.
I think sometimes people get so caught up in creating negativity they forget that stoper doesn't have to show up for the abuse or even make this game. What's the goal? The beatings will continue until morale improves?
this game has the best writing i have read so far 
The update cycle is determined by the game's story and usually spans 1 ingame day. It's also determined by the tiny budget: currently $2350/month and less than $1000/month for most of the project's lifespan. It has nothing to do with "project management", "milking" or whatever fashionable buzzword you want to throw at it.
- May 31, 2020
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While I would like to see a JOHN update as much as anyone else, this bonus set was really hot. I'd very much like to see it in 4K. Stoper is top-tier.
- Jun 22, 2017
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The only problem is the time betwen updates, but the game is in my top 3 , history, renders, animations, are just amazing
- Mar 25, 2018
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Stoper is such a milker, almost came in my pants watching the bonus set. I am glad he doesn't shy away from penises.
He doesn't like to repeat things so we won't find a similar scene in JOHN though, I guess, which is a shame.
He doesn't like to repeat things so we won't find a similar scene in JOHN though, I guess, which is a shame.
- Aug 23, 2020
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I can't speak for Italy, but in the United States $2,700 before taxes is $32,400/year. That is the definition of barely getting by, and would qualify him for financial support in almost every state in the US. So while maybe BorgiaBou may have been wrong about Italy specifically, you're incorrect to act as though $2,700/year is good money everywhere.
Edit- To keep this on topic though, I would just reiterate that I think Stoper is leaving a lot of money on the table because of his development cycles. Clearly this is a passion project for him, and that's cool; but objectively I think there are thousands of dollars out there that he could earn if he was able to buckle down and put out consistent releases. Not everyone is driven by money, and Stoper is clearly not a greedy person, I'm just stating what I think is a fact- he could be financially much more successful with this project than he currently is.
- Jul 24, 2021
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The heck has to do this with the usa i swear you american folks are so ignorant sometimes no wonder why the rest of the world "loves" your country so much, i clearly specify that he lives in Italy that's in Europe like i said he can have a decent living not a luxury living with that money in Italy in eastern Europe where i'm from with that you'd be rich and have a good life...
Dude i have close friends who are working in Italy for 1800-2000€ and they get by just fine, they even manage to send back home to their loved ones some money monthly...
- Jul 3, 2021
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Do you see what I'm trying to say here? If you just want to "get by", that's fine.
Oh, and one more thing. I personally love the USA. Been there twice and it's a great country. And unlike what you say, not every country and it's citizens hate on the US. That's pretty dumb anyway if you ask me.
- Apr 25, 2020
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And why are you saying that? Stoper seems to be satisfied to "get by" with what he has now
- Jul 3, 2021
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Did you even read the previous posts? I'm not talking about Stoper, but about what BorgiaBou had to say about money. If Stoper or anyone is fine with just getting by, that's fine with me.
As a person who lived in Italy for a few months, and currently living in the US, I would say that 2300 euro in Italy in is like 5000 dollars in USA. Why? Because of the fucking rent. I pay 2500 for a slightly larger studio rn. In Italy this would cost me 650 to 700. And the doctors dont cost a fortune.
Though I think dev is making less than the amount shown. Patreon takes a cut and also the taxes. I would say the taxes alone is costing him 350 euros. But I think there are ways to get that lowered. So, even though he makes a "decent" wage, I don't think he is making bank. Though I think of he focused morehere, he would definitely grow faster.
- Apr 12, 2020
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- Jul 17, 2019
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the fact is, most users think that increasing the gain increases the speed of development.
this is not true.
if not minimally.
sure more money can get you better hardware but we have had a lot of evidence that the delays are due to scene creation, and not hardware dependent.
the only solution would be to work in a team; but it is difficult for a craetore to transfer his ideas to others. we have an example on Summertime Saga: there are many in the team, but only DC designs the scenes; the same goes for L&P.
having said that, the update will certainly not come out, as I assumed, in November; Unfortunately.
this latest bonus set took a long time; I already told you what I think about it.
this is not true.
if not minimally.
sure more money can get you better hardware but we have had a lot of evidence that the delays are due to scene creation, and not hardware dependent.
the only solution would be to work in a team; but it is difficult for a craetore to transfer his ideas to others. we have an example on Summertime Saga: there are many in the team, but only DC designs the scenes; the same goes for L&P.
having said that, the update will certainly not come out, as I assumed, in November; Unfortunately.
this latest bonus set took a long time; I already told you what I think about it.
- Jul 17, 2019
- 5,439
- 13,008