VN Ren'Py Jessica O'Neil's Hard News [v0.65] [stoperArt]

[Busted1201]

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Come on man
Even this game is my absolute favorite, I will give it a rest for some months.
Really... A beta with the boring 2 out comes, that nearly nobody want to see.
Thats a big disappointment.
I mean really? 6 months developing for a lesbian and a vanilla scene..
Have fun with this beta update
See ya
By the way, to be honest. I believe this game will be abondend soon.
The developer/stoper sees for him self that he can not meet the expectations of the fans

 

[TheUberstuff]

It's a great point. The evolution of the AVG industry took a huge step forward with Patreon, but I really do think we're at a crossroads. Developers either need to become more professional and team-centric, or they need to scale down and become more modest. We're seeing too many games with immense potential collapse under their own weight. As I see it, there are three related problems:

1. Amateur single-person development teams
2. Artist-first developers
3. Overly ambitious, and poorly defined, games

These three issues are contributing towards a glut of high quality, but ultimately doomed, projects. You can be an amateur developer if you're able to keep your art and ambitions in check. You can be an artist first and foremost, but it's helpful if you aren't an amateur developer and keep your ambitions in check. Or you can be super ambitious, but you better have some experience as a developer and artist. You can mix and match, but I think as a general rule there needs to be a compromise between these three issues.

To bring it back to JOHN for a second, I really think Stoper owes his patrons (not us) a true mea culpa. There are a lot of patrons that deserve a better explanation about why this update has turned into such a clusterfuck. He doesn't owe us anything, but he owes them a lot. At absolute best Stoper has been disingenious to some degree about the development process for this update. Months of effort have resulted in next to nothing and an update that will only be released as an unfinished beta. At worst, Stoper has been outright dishonest and was unproductive for months, all while collecting payment. At minimum Stoper should pause the collection of payments until the full release is out and guarantee anyone who was a patron during the last month or two full access to the update when it's released.

Once the full-version is released, I think Stoper needs to seriously consider putting this game on pause. I understand that makes it far more likely that the game will be abandoned, but at this point I think it's time for a radical change. Something about this game has ground development to a halt, and I think Stoper needs to take some time to figure himself out. Pausing the game and continuing development in the background could be a method to get his head right without the pressure of expectations or paying patrons.

In my opinion his reputation and credibility are on the line. I think his long-term viability as a developer is in question.

I completely agree, especially about being at a crossroads. The problem with Patreon as I see it is that it is basically the same thing as Early access on steam for games. You can "help" the dev by buying the game at its current state and hope that the game gets more developed and ultimately "released" in a completed state. I have done that a few times on steam and been screwed the few times I did it with the dev either abandoning the game or finishing it but the finished product was crap.

Bottom line for both Patreon donators and people who purchase EA games on steam is there are no guarantee's and there really can't be. What I see as a possible solution is that people who want to donate to a project, game whatever pay for incremental progress where devs set goals and if they complete the goals on time they get something extra from their donators but if they don't they get less something like that. That way they have more of an incentive not to just jerk people around.

Of course life happens and I have sympathy for some devs who I believe sincerely tried to live up to what they said they would do mainly because their product was really good and they kept in constant contact and didn't give new dates ALL THE TIME, which is my problem with Stoper at this point.

Sorry for the long post but I think people continuing to donate without getting hardly anything back is a big part of why some devs delay as long as they can because they get more that way they if they put the updates sooner. If donators paid for a block of the game it wouldn't be as much about time passing more about content being completed.

 

[andy.ivanoff]

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Does anyone will still pay money for this?!

 

[kaptaan]

Why am I not surprised or disappointed with the latest news? Maybe it’s because I could already foresee the outcome. Kudos to him for all his art quality but it’s time for me to move on. Game won’t survive for longer if he doesn’t change his attitude. Anyway, thanks for the game. It really was an amazing experience.

 

[onlyfunfunf]

What is happening with developers, there are more and more developers that are delaying updates or giving miserable update with scene or two. This game was one of the best but I think it is over, 6 monts for 1lesbian or faithful scene thats crazy. Stoper needs to decide or to abandon the game or bigger updates with little bit less quality. This is unfair for people that are playing the game.

 

[FMag]

What is happening with developers, there are more and more developers that are delaying updates or giving miserable update with scene or two. This game was one of the best but I think it is over, 6 monts for 1lesbian or faithful scene thats crazy. Stoper needs to decide or to abandon the game or bigger updates with little bit less quality. This is unfair for people that are playing the game.

Yeah I noticed that too. Lately we had a lot of big delays and what "scares" me the most is that there's a propensity to adopt the "icstor's philosophy" of ignoring supporters. This is not good.

 

[Benutzername]

As long as enough people are paying, there's no reason for him to change it.

 

[Chucked_Sandwich]

I feel like these devs look at each other and think, hmmmm, well he's doing it this slow..... I'll go slower.

Remember in the good old days when most devs had monthly updates. that is long gone.

 

[DanThaMan]

I feel like these devs look at each other and think, hmmmm, well he's doing it this slow..... I'll go slower.

Remember in the good old days when most devs had monthly updates. that is long gone.

Back then devs had the decency to only charge per major update too, now most devs have stopped caring about their patrons.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

What is happening with developers, there are more and more developers that are delaying updates or giving miserable update with scene or two. This game was one of the best but I think it is over, 6 monts for 1lesbian or faithful scene thats crazy. Stoper needs to decide or to abandon the game or bigger updates with little bit less quality. This is unfair for people that are playing the game.

Yeah I noticed that too. Lately we had a lot of big delays and what "scares" me the most is that there's a propensity to adopt the "icstor's philosophy" of ignoring supporters. This is not good.

I think you're seeing a couple things.

1. Confirmation bias- you're concerned about a trend so you're more likely to notice it elsewhere.
2. Maturation of Patreon economy- Patreon as a portal for funding adult games has been around long enough now that I think we're seeing the maturation of the economic model. And that model is showing many shortcomings. Creators who learned of Patreon three or four years ago and jumped onboard, are now reaching a point of exhaustion. I think there's a collective coincidence where after three or so years developers start getting tired of their projects.
3. COVID Burnout- Coupled with the maturation of the Patreon economy, the last two years saw an explosion in attention (and profit) for creators. For example, immediately following the shutdown in March 2020, F95 experienced a dramatic rise in new members. For creators, this opened up a vast new captive audience. This new audience wasn't only captive in their home, they were also deeply engaged. Correspondingly, devs now had fewer distractions and could focus on their games. But now, almost two full years later, I think we're seeing COVID burnout. Audiences are ferociously engaged, and the shine of the games has worn off. Now more is being demanded from the devs at a time when they're burnt out.

I really think 2 and 3 are the main culprits of what you're seeing. Without COVID burnout, we would probably still be seeing a lot of slowdown in the AVG market because of natural burnout. But considering the last two years, I think you're seeing an even higher degree of burnout than normal. So it feels like all of these great games are collapsing at the same time, and I think there's at least some truth to that. It may not be as severe as we think, but certainly some of the most highly regarded games on this forum are struggling to release new material. This isn't just a coincidence, I think there's probably a shelf life to every AVG before burnout sets in and the last two years have made the burnout more extreme.

This thread was started in July of 2018, so it's more than three and a half years old. Considering that there are still many years of development in front of the game, I think we're seeing a natural burnout from Stoper. Some will call this milking, but I don't see it that way. I think most devs want to finish their games, but they didn't plan ahead very well and are simply too burnt out to carry on. There's a lesson here for future devs, try to keep your games to something that can be completed in 36 months.

 

[umby]

This update only having 1 event, with 2 variations, is to say the least...not good. Especially for 6 months of work. Even more so since he decided to take out the 3rd variation, which was the one most people were looking forward to the most.

He makes good art, and I don't like doing this, but there are other developers who make just as good art in larger quantity and quicker timeframes. His workflow obviously doesn't work. He may think it does, but this update isn't going to be worth a download for a lot of people.

This is another example, on the big ol' pile of examples, that being a perfectionist isn't compatible with making a game. If you ever want to complete your game, you have a compromise. Either settle for less than perfect art, or slim down the story so you don't need to do as much of it. Not doing either isn't sustainable. A flawed game that gets completed is better than a perfect game that get's abandoned.

my thesis is also that perhaps the work on ren py is not for him.

 

[PietruccioTheHilander]

Does anyone will still pay money for this?!

698

 

[PietruccioTheHilander]

Remember in the good old days when most devs had monthly updates. that is long gone.

well, over time the plot of the game itself develops and thickens, becoming more and more complex and complicated.
so if the events that happen today are the consequences of past choices, there are many variations to consider.
In the specific case of JOHN, the Blake event also depends on the first choice made with her at the bar (kiss her or intimidate boy) so today's new event will have to have variations based on that choice.
The most striking case is AWAM, it has so many ramifications that a single event must be done in 2-3 variations.

 

[NTRMANx2]

Cheating path is probably the part most people have been waiting for Next question, is it worth the 6 month update? There must be something special in it It should have a hot sex scene which in fact should have been a long time ago Since being with Mr.Parker but she could only blowjob on him

 

[TammyVeriyan]

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So I'm going to skip this update after all this wait? Let's see that lighter version worth the wait..

 

[PietruccioTheHilander]

I fear many will be disappointed.
We just have to wait

 

[Satiro]

At this stage, i prefer wait a bit more but with the straight cheating path done that a short update and then wait 4 or 5 months for new content.

 

[dolfe67]

I think you're seeing a couple things.

1. Confirmation bias- you're concerned about a trend so you're more likely to notice it elsewhere.
2. Maturation of Patreon economy- Patreon as a portal for funding adult games has been around long enough now that I think we're seeing the maturation of the economic model. And that model is showing many shortcomings. Creators who learned of Patreon three or four years ago and jumped onboard, are now reaching a point of exhaustion. I think there's a collective coincidence where after three or so years developers start getting tired of their projects.
3. COVID Burnout- Coupled with the maturation of the Patreon economy, the last two years saw an explosion in attention (and profit) for creators. For example, immediately following the shutdown in March 2020, F95 experienced a dramatic rise in new members. For creators, this opened up a vast new captive audience. This new audience wasn't only captive in their home, they were also deeply engaged. Correspondingly, devs now had fewer distractions and could focus on their games. But now, almost two full years later, I think we're seeing COVID burnout. Audiences are ferociously engaged, and the shine of the games has worn off. Now more is being demanded from the devs at a time when they're burnt out.

I really think 2 and 3 are the main culprits of what you're seeing. Without COVID burnout, we would probably still be seeing a lot of slowdown in the AVG market because of natural burnout. But considering the last two years, I think you're seeing an even higher degree of burnout than normal. So it feels like all of these great games are collapsing at the same time, and I think there's at least some truth to that. It may not be as severe as we think, but certainly some of the most highly regarded games on this forum are struggling to release new material. This isn't just a coincidence, I think there's probably a shelf life to every AVG before burnout sets in and the last two years have made the burnout more extreme.

This thread was started in July of 2018, so it's more than three and a half years old. Considering that there are still many years of development in front of the game, I think we're seeing a natural burnout from Stoper. Some will call this milking, but I don't see it that way. I think most devs want to finish their games, but they didn't plan ahead very well and are simply too burnt out to carry on. There's a lesson here for future devs, try to keep your games to something that can be completed in 36 months.

Very good points. I would also add that when you start a project it's all new and shiny and you're highly motivated. But after a couple years and the branching increasing, a solo dev can feel bored and lose motivation (covid or not covid, though there was an increase in new projects during it)

 

[Deleted member 4282613]

there will be another update, don't expect anything special, why did you even decide that he would do something special? what you have been waiting for 6 months means nothing, he will release an update whenever he wants, because his audience does not care, they will still support the game, and what people write on a pirate site does not matter to him.

Is this suzi from hillside vn? xD

 

[Sombramain22]

so half a year for 1 event consisting 2 scenes - a lesbian and a faithful route? what a joke, if any of you are still supporting him on patreon i'd advice to just quit like i a did long time ago, stop enabling this type of behaviour




it seems like you spoke too soon, stoper saw the post and decided to throw himself into contention

image getting the game for free in compaing about it I could see if the guy was a a dev that was just taking money but there not plus covid fucked up alot of shit and you want them to just pump out upadates when he is the only fucking one make it get fucking real