VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Hantol]

The other is that in the light of what I have read recently(above the comment section), there is no such sub thread that Kane just succumbs under the weight of the circumstances (so he is not a real sub, just a broken person)
At the same time, if this is true, there won't be an ending where Callista can save her son (outsider ending) since the one who was once his son is now only a crawling worm.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Finally she could have blackmailed Alexander then Veronica with Olivia's life. (and in this way she could have obtained help for Seth or stasis)

You think he gives a shit about Olivia? He has four daughters he doesn't want. Getting rid of the fifth one would probably be doing him a favor.

 

[Hantol]

You think he gives a shit about Olivia? He has four daughters he doesn't want. Getting rid of the fifth one would probably be doing him a favor.

After Alexander's death, Veronica is in charge. Olivia is incredibly important to her.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

After Alexander's death, Veronica is in charge. Olivia is incredibly important to her.

If it was that easy, Callista would just tell Veronica to knock it off, since callista is basically one of the only two people that Veronica respects.

 

[Hantol]

If it was that easy, Callista would just tell Veronica to knock it off, since callista is basically one of the only two people that Veronica respects.

If you are right about this (and I don't think it is necessarily the case), there are still the two options I wrote about above.
On the other hand, she didn't even try to convince her let alone blackmail her for his son's freedom

 

[Stan5851]

There is something I don't understand about Callista and it has been bothering me for a long time.
First of all, she could have taken her family to a safe place with the help of deCOCKS. (if only Alexander's men were to be feared)
If Alexander had threatened Kane with a programmed disease or poisoning or chip she could have asked help from the deCOCKS then put Kane into stasis. (like Astrid)
Finally she could have blackmailed Alexander then Veronica with Olivia's life. (and in this way she could have obtained help for Seth or stasis)
In the light of the above, I think it is clear that that the gambit is far more important for Callista than the life of Kane.

The problem with all such reasoning is that it doesn't address the reality of the game in any way... All these events with little Kane and Olivia happened 20 years before the game started (i.e. before Kane's first day in prison). And while theorizing about some current events makes sense if only because by analyzing the facts available to us we can arrive at the truth, abstract speculation about what happened decades ago is worthless. At least until we have new facts about these events from which we can draw some conclusions.

The only evidence we can take into account right now is Callista's words in the scene with Elena on the bridge, where she said that she simply had no other choice and not fulfilling Alexander's terms directly threatened the lives of Kane (and Olivia).
-->
So take that as a given, as an axiom, because that's what Tess decided to do, making it a given in her game. Well, at least we should wait for the son and the mother to meet so we have more information. For now, Tess is hiding this information and only Elena knows the full version of events about why Callista did what she did (their dialog in one of the caves where they went after the conversation on the bridge, which of course we were not shown).

And I don't even see the point in discussing the fact that the only cryostasis center we know of belongs not to the DeKocks, but to the Karlssons, and the fact that the principles of cryostasis/anabiosis we know (described in science fiction) allow us to immerse a person in this state, allowing them not to age...So in Kane's case (even if we imagine that the DeKocks had access to such technology) it turns out that in 20 years we will have not a 20+ year old guy, but a one year old child/infant whose normal development was frozen thanks to cryostasis.

But in any case, this is all nonsense and empty reasoning that has nothing to do with game reality. And the facts (at this point in time) are that Callista simply had no other choice. And we can't judge what was most important to her until we know her whole plan and at least talk to her (on Kane's behalf).

 

[kinkyshin]

There is something I don't understand about Callista and it has been bothering me for a long time.
First of all, she could have taken her family to a safe place with the help of deCOCKS. (if only Alexander's men were to be feared)
If Alexander had threatened Kane with a programmed disease or poisoning or chip she could have asked help from the deCOCKS then put Kane into stasis. (like Astrid)
Finally she could have blackmailed Alexander then Veronica with Olivia's life. (and in this way she could have obtained help for Seth or stasis)
In the light of the above, I think it is clear that that the gambit is far more important for Callista than the life of Kane.

We don't have all the information, but the reality from what we can tell so far is that the gambit is a possible solution to a problem that IS far more important than Kane's life.

Humanity is legitimately on the brink of extinction. If the Karlssons and the DeKocks work together, then with some luck they might actually be able to fix the planet. Callista isn't sure exactly how things will play out and might have some backup plans but she seems to be placing the bulk of her chips on her son being able to unite the two families.

Survival for Kane was never going to be easy no matter what. The gambit is the best way to save Kane AND the best way to save humanity. As for Kane going into stasis like Astrid, what good does that do if there's no one alive to even figure out a cure to the disease lol.

 

[Hantol]

We don't have all the information, but the reality from what we can tell so far is that the gambit is a possible solution to a problem that IS far more important than Kane's life.

Humanity is legitimately on the brink of extinction. If the Karlssons and the DeKocks work together, then with some luck they might actually be able to fix the planet. Callista isn't sure exactly how things will play out and might have some backup plans but she seems to be placing the bulk of her chips on her son being able to unite the two families.

Survival for Kane was never going to be easy no matter what. The gambit is the best way to save Kane AND the best way to save humanity. As for Kane going into stasis like Astrid, what good does that do if there's no one alive to even figure out a cure to the disease lol.

What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

 

[IllDisposed]

What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

Because her son is a member of humanity, as are all 3 children she raised, and would die too if everyone else dies?

 

[kinkyshin]

What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

Of course Callista wants to save everyone, not just Kane... She's not a fucking psychopath lmao. Also, Kane isn't even her only child. She has a responsibility to not only help Kane, but Seth, and Olivia, and other people who are important to her as well like Cola and Veronica.

And, Kane is going to die anyways... because humanity is dying... she is literally giving him a chance to save himself AND save everyone. Not only that, but she seems to have a backup plan or two anyways in case Kane is a complete failure.

 

[fatki_chaddi]

What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

Well human psychology is inherently complex. The drive to protect those closest to someone can sometimes overshadow larger, abstract ideals, like saving humanity. The world we live in has countless positive and negative examples of such behavior.

 

[Hantol]

Of course Callista wants to save everyone, not just Kane... She's not a fucking psychopath lmao. Also, Kane isn't even her only child. She has a responsibility to not only help Kane, but Seth, and Olivia, and other people who are important to her as well like Cola and Veronica.

And, Kane is going to die anyways... because humanity is dying... she is literally giving him a chance to save himself AND save everyone. Not only that, but she seems to have a backup plan or two anyways in case Kane is a complete failure.

Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?

 

[Hantol]

Because her son is a member of humanity, as are all 3 children she raised, and would die too if everyone else dies?

What "humanity" could be saved? (a few million starving and vegetating unfortunates and a few hundred amoral controllers/managers headed by the 7 demonic board members) Besides who would be the possible leaders of the exodus? (Veronica, Olivia, Elena and maybe Callista they would surely create a true paradise for those they choose)
This opportunity is worth risking your son's life for.

 

[Stan5851]

Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?

Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?

 

[Nifferman]

Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?

True man even in game no one blames/praise Calista just Kane depending on what route u are.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?

Believe it or not, me and Stan have been over this for a couple of years, and honestly, it's a hard point to argue either way without all the information. It will take a few more flashbacks before we can determine one way or the other what type of person Callista is and what options she actually had.

 

[Maviarab]

Alright, day three...let's go for two bad girls today

Spoiler: The lovely and sexy....Dr. Eloise Chastain and the equally beautiful Erica

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[latex lvr]

Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?

I do agree with you in that it is us the players that are controlling Kane and to certain Aspects other's also. (ie we do make a few choices for the Karlsson sisters ect)

I don't necessarily blame Calista as yet, We still don't have enough information about her or her reasons for what she did. Except to say that she took Olivia with her when she left too protect Kane. We do know that all though Olivia grew up being loved and cared for by Calista, She did treat her differently to Kane and Seth and was a bit harsher on Olivia than the other 2.

However Calista is one of the foundling members of the Karlsson Group. It could be argued that it was because of Calista leaving Alexander, that he became lost. Calista was his love. Therefore by Calista leaving him turned him nasty and thus his 4 daughters were bought up the way they were.
If we look at the 4 children in the order they were born. We have Dominique who is the eldest Although she is quite a strong woman and does have evil tendencies she is a firm but fair woman. Next we have Veronica. I think deep down Veronica is basically a good woman and she is working behind the scenes to help humanity with her various projects. Yes it could be argued that she is the one who has developed the shock chips and the "pain serum" ect But I think she has done that so that she could try and control her Father and ultimately what the group does. She has no interest in running the organisation. (I also think that Calista perhaps had the biggest impact on Veronica because of their shared interest in science.)
Then we have when Olivia was born and Calista Leaving Alexander and thus when he became lost. We have Juliette born who is true Evil and the Same for Alesandra who also is evil but is also A spoilt Princess. These two have obviously has the biggest influence from Alexander on how they were brought up. I don't know where in that order Astrid fits in but I would guess she would be the youngest of all and therefore because Veronica is her (full) big sister and wanting to protect her from Alexander and the other sisters she arrange for her to be taken to Island 4. We don't know much about Astrid yet so hard to comment as to her character.

So based on all of this I feel that Calista does have to take some of the blame and certainly has some hard questions to answer. I also hope that when Kane and her do meet that it is will be a meaningful conversation and she answers those hard questions and not like what we have been getting in the game so far with questions being avoided or being told we are not ready to tell you yet, Also not a conversation where Kane is so pleased to see his mom that he doesn't ask her the difficult questions.

 

[Stan5851]

Alright, day three...let's go for two bad girls today
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Oh yes, Mav, they are beautiful, especially Eloise....But I'm wondering where the 1st and 3rd screenshots above are from? (and I'm not sure about the 2nd one). There must have been some new devlog from Tess that I missed for some reason..

 

[Maviarab]

Oh yes, Mav, they are beautiful, especially Eloise....But I'm wondering where the 1st and 3rd screenshots above are from? (and I'm not sure about the 2nd one). There must have been some new devlog from Tess that I missed for some reason..

First is from upcoming Part 2, third is from Part 1.