latex lvr

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May 3, 2019
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I imagine kitty rose by being Elena's right hand woman, though I do wonder how that happened given that in the flashbacks at least she appeared to be under Alexander's thrall
Well As Alexander and Elena were close maybe Kitty transferred to Elena. Although I think I remember when Elena and Olivia were talking in the office and Elena wanted to kitty to serve Olivia as she had her, Elena said that kitty had be serving her for a long time.
 

MilesEdgeworth

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Nov 8, 2021
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Well As Alexander and Elena were close maybe Kitty transferred to Elena. Although I think I remember when Elena and Olivia were talking in the office and Elena wanted to kitty to serve Olivia as she had her, Elena said that kitty had be serving her for a long time.
I don't imagine Alexander and Elena were all that close after he blamed her for breaking up him and Callista and he had her daughter kidnapped
 
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Hantol

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Dec 18, 2024
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There is something I don't understand about Callista and it has been bothering me for a long time.
First of all, she could have taken her family to a safe place with the help of deCOCKS. (if only Alexander's men were to be feared)
If Alexander had threatened Kane with a programmed disease or poisoning or chip she could have asked help from the deCOCKS then put Kane into stasis. (like Astrid)
Finally she could have blackmailed Alexander then Veronica with Olivia's life. (and in this way she could have obtained help for Seth or stasis)
In the light of the above, I think it is clear that that the gambit is far more important for Callista than the life of Kane.
 
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Hantol

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Dec 18, 2024
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The other is that in the light of what I have read recently(above the comment section), there is no such sub thread that Kane just succumbs under the weight of the circumstances (so he is not a real sub, just a broken person)
At the same time, if this is true, there won't be an ending where Callista can save her son (outsider ending) since the one who was once his son is now only a crawling worm.
 

Hantol

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Dec 18, 2024
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If it was that easy, Callista would just tell Veronica to knock it off, since callista is basically one of the only two people that Veronica respects.
If you are right about this (and I don't think it is necessarily the case), there are still the two options I wrote about above.
On the other hand, she didn't even try to convince her let alone blackmail her for his son's freedom
 

Stan5851

Engaged Member
Oct 18, 2019
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There is something I don't understand about Callista and it has been bothering me for a long time.
First of all, she could have taken her family to a safe place with the help of deCOCKS. (if only Alexander's men were to be feared)
If Alexander had threatened Kane with a programmed disease or poisoning or chip she could have asked help from the deCOCKS then put Kane into stasis. (like Astrid)
Finally she could have blackmailed Alexander then Veronica with Olivia's life. (and in this way she could have obtained help for Seth or stasis)
In the light of the above, I think it is clear that that the gambit is far more important for Callista than the life of Kane.
The problem with all such reasoning is that it doesn't address the reality of the game in any way... All these events with little Kane and Olivia happened 20 years before the game started (i.e. before Kane's first day in prison). And while theorizing about some current events makes sense if only because by analyzing the facts available to us we can arrive at the truth, abstract speculation about what happened decades ago is worthless. At least until we have new facts about these events from which we can draw some conclusions.

The only evidence we can take into account right now is Callista's words in the scene with Elena on the bridge, where she said that she simply had no other choice and not fulfilling Alexander's terms directly threatened the lives of Kane (and Olivia).
screenshot0059.png --> screenshot0058.jpg
So take that as a given, as an axiom, because that's what Tess decided to do, making it a given in her game. Well, at least we should wait for the son and the mother to meet so we have more information. For now, Tess is hiding this information and only Elena knows the full version of events about why Callista did what she did (their dialog in one of the caves where they went after the conversation on the bridge, which of course we were not shown).

And I don't even see the point in discussing the fact that the only cryostasis center we know of belongs not to the DeKocks, but to the Karlssons, and the fact that the principles of cryostasis/anabiosis we know (described in science fiction) allow us to immerse a person in this state, allowing them not to age...So in Kane's case (even if we imagine that the DeKocks had access to such technology) it turns out that in 20 years we will have not a 20+ year old guy, but a one year old child/infant whose normal development was frozen thanks to cryostasis.

But in any case, this is all nonsense and empty reasoning that has nothing to do with game reality. And the facts (at this point in time) are that Callista simply had no other choice. And we can't judge what was most important to her until we know her whole plan and at least talk to her (on Kane's behalf).
 

kinkyshin

Member
Jun 8, 2020
271
662
There is something I don't understand about Callista and it has been bothering me for a long time.
First of all, she could have taken her family to a safe place with the help of deCOCKS. (if only Alexander's men were to be feared)
If Alexander had threatened Kane with a programmed disease or poisoning or chip she could have asked help from the deCOCKS then put Kane into stasis. (like Astrid)
Finally she could have blackmailed Alexander then Veronica with Olivia's life. (and in this way she could have obtained help for Seth or stasis)
In the light of the above, I think it is clear that that the gambit is far more important for Callista than the life of Kane.
We don't have all the information, but the reality from what we can tell so far is that the gambit is a possible solution to a problem that IS far more important than Kane's life.

Humanity is legitimately on the brink of extinction. If the Karlssons and the DeKocks work together, then with some luck they might actually be able to fix the planet. Callista isn't sure exactly how things will play out and might have some backup plans but she seems to be placing the bulk of her chips on her son being able to unite the two families.

Survival for Kane was never going to be easy no matter what. The gambit is the best way to save Kane AND the best way to save humanity. As for Kane going into stasis like Astrid, what good does that do if there's no one alive to even figure out a cure to the disease lol.
 

Hantol

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Dec 18, 2024
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We don't have all the information, but the reality from what we can tell so far is that the gambit is a possible solution to a problem that IS far more important than Kane's life.

Humanity is legitimately on the brink of extinction. If the Karlssons and the DeKocks work together, then with some luck they might actually be able to fix the planet. Callista isn't sure exactly how things will play out and might have some backup plans but she seems to be placing the bulk of her chips on her son being able to unite the two families.

Survival for Kane was never going to be easy no matter what. The gambit is the best way to save Kane AND the best way to save humanity. As for Kane going into stasis like Astrid, what good does that do if there's no one alive to even figure out a cure to the disease lol.
What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.
 

IllDisposed

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Apr 3, 2018
19
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What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.
Because her son is a member of humanity, as are all 3 children she raised, and would die too if everyone else dies?
 
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kinkyshin

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Jun 8, 2020
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What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.
Of course Callista wants to save everyone, not just Kane... She's not a fucking psychopath lmao. Also, Kane isn't even her only child. She has a responsibility to not only help Kane, but Seth, and Olivia, and other people who are important to her as well like Cola and Veronica.

And, Kane is going to die anyways... because humanity is dying... she is literally giving him a chance to save himself AND save everyone. Not only that, but she seems to have a backup plan or two anyways in case Kane is a complete failure.
 

fatki_chaddi

Member
Oct 18, 2021
112
92
What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

Well human psychology is inherently complex. The drive to protect those closest to someone can sometimes overshadow larger, abstract ideals, like saving humanity. The world we live in has countless positive and negative examples of such behavior.
 
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Hantol

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Dec 18, 2024
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Of course Callista wants to save everyone, not just Kane... She's not a fucking psychopath lmao. Also, Kane isn't even her only child. She has a responsibility to not only help Kane, but Seth, and Olivia, and other people who are important to her as well like Cola and Veronica.

And, Kane is going to die anyways... because humanity is dying... she is literally giving him a chance to save himself AND save everyone. Not only that, but she seems to have a backup plan or two anyways in case Kane is a complete failure.
Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?
 

Hantol

Newbie
Dec 18, 2024
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Because her son is a member of humanity, as are all 3 children she raised, and would die too if everyone else dies?
What "humanity" could be saved? (a few million starving and vegetating unfortunates and a few hundred amoral controllers/managers headed by the 7 demonic board members) Besides who would be the possible leaders of the exodus? (Veronica, Olivia, Elena and maybe Callista they would surely create a true paradise for those they choose)
This opportunity is worth risking your son's life for.
 

Stan5851

Engaged Member
Oct 18, 2019
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Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?
Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?
 
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Nifferman

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Feb 7, 2018
879
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Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?
True man even in game no one blames/praise Calista just Kane depending on what route u are.
 

MilesEdgeworth

Engaged Member
Nov 8, 2021
2,356
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Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?
Believe it or not, me and Stan have been over this for a couple of years, and honestly, it's a hard point to argue either way without all the information. It will take a few more flashbacks before we can determine one way or the other what type of person Callista is and what options she actually had.
 
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