VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[hu lover]

good game.

 

[Maviarab]

All fair points and factual within what we know. Maybe perhaps Otto will be involved? It seems like his kind of forte perhaps, expecially with him previously having contact with Callista also? He does seem a lot more than he appears to me, like a secret service, black-ops type of man who acting purely as a bodyguard is way below is actual skill-set. Definitely a man for all situations type...

I would say though:

Seems like the only characters who actually care about Kane are Cole, Nadia and Maybe Veronica

According to who exactly? This is another one of things that can differ drastically depending on whether sub or dom path and who you may or may not be chasing as a LI. (specifically referring to Olivia here, especially on the dom path and chasing her. She cares more about you than any single person alive and is very much 'on your side').

 

[Sharpshooter890]

"Well, I (the player) know everything, and this fool (Kane) can't understand the obvious". Except you have to realize that you know it not as Kane, but as a player who, roughly speaking, is just invisibly present at the most important events of the game, while our Kane is somewhere in the bowels of JoyFacility.

I judge Kane only on the merit of the scenes he is in. For example, throughout ep.6 Elena makes slip-ups in Kane's presence that should alert him to what's going on (Fireplace conversation: she channels her inner Dominic Toretto and talks about family; Poolside scene: she almost says "daughter" referring to Olivia). By that point Kane knows exactly what kind of environment he is in and should be paying attention to every word and facial expression of the people 'above' him. And he kinda does that with the department evaluations - Veronica wants someone smart and brave, Juliette - cruel and sadistic, etc. By paying attention he gets all the way to K9 and his 2-seater Bugatti.

 

[Maviarab]

By that point Kane knows exactly what kind of environment he is in and should be paying attention to every word and facial expression of the people 'above' him.

Well..he should...you're right lmao...not sure he entirely does though hehe.

By paying attention he gets all the way to K9 and his 2-seater Bugatti.

Ehh...even as a dom player...I'm not entirely sure very much of it (if at all really) is down to Kane himself (or by paying attention) lol...he still a little clueless and certainly getting every helping hand along the way to progress.

 

[Silver_Crow117]

According to who exactly? This is another one of things that can differ drastically depending on whether sub or dom path and who you may or may not be chasing as a LI. (specifically referring to Olivia here, especially on the dom path and chasing her. She cares more about you than any single person alive and is very much 'on your side').

I’m just saying what I think personally Lol Things do drastically change based on your choices with characters, with Olivia,Juliette, Dominique… also Tess also said this.. if you find it interesting…

Spoiler: Spoiler

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Talks about having choices of evil and good being available for certain characters..

Anyways, those three Characters have shown that they have love/care for Kane no matter if he’s sub or dom… yes we need more information right now for all three characters but for right now, none have them have showed I’ll-intent towards Kane… Maybe Veronica but in..her own unique way (I’m not bias at allll… heh)

 

[Maviarab]

I’m just saying what I think personally Lol Things do drastically change based on your choices with characters, with Olivia… Tess also said this.. if you find it interesting…

Spoiler: Spoiler

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But those three Characters have shown that they have love/care for Kane no matter if he’s sub or dom… yes we need more information right now for all three characters but for right now, none have them have showed I’ll-intent towards Kane… Maybe Veronica but in..her own unique way (I’m not bias at allll… heh)

Nadia I would question...but as we already know, has vastly differing content depending on paths and what you suggest with her really isn't shown on the dom path, at least not yet.

As you already replied though, I'll add this here rather than edit my porevious post (which was what I was about to do...you're too on the ball today SS hehe):

Kane is the biggest idiot around, oblivious to everything around him and with 0 hint of him being apt at, say, research or engineering. Yet some characters have high hopes for his scientific talents. His IQ is lower than my room temperature (in Celsius).

That literally made me LOL for real (and good job I wasn't drinking coffee at the time haha)...but that leads along with my previous post. I do completely agree and as noted in Tess' post which you added, especially on the 'dom' path (which in reality should be re-labelled...the not being walked all over path) it will be nice to actually see a pro-active Kane, making decisions for himself and taking control of his life/situation as opposed to (as I said earlier), by and large receiving lots of helping hands and favors to get where he currently is.

 

[DoverDad]

Cole when he comes back

 

[Stan5851]

I judge Kane only on the merit of the scenes he is in. For example, throughout ep.6 Elena makes slip-ups in Kane's presence that should alert him to what's going on (Fireplace conversation: she channels her inner Dominic Toretto and talks about family; Poolside scene: she almost says "daughter" referring to Olivia). By that point Kane knows exactly what kind of environment he is in and should be paying attention to every word and facial expression of the people 'above' him. And he kinda does that with the department evaluations - Veronica wants someone smart and brave, Juliette - cruel and sadistic, etc. By paying attention he gets all the way to K9 and his 2-seater Bugatti.

Spoiler

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[Sharpshooter890]

Yes, he overlooked the same caveat with Elena, but I think if he had connected both dots in that conversation with her, it would have been problematic for Tess to film a good scene between him and Olivia, which awaits us in episode 8. In the sense that it wouldn't have been a surprise to Kane anymore.

And there lies the problem - a storyteller must find a way to seamlessly connect these dots. Otherwise, you get 'Somehow, Palpatine returned' kind of crap.

 

[Maviarab]

And there lies the problem - a storyteller must find a way to seamlessly connect these dots. Otherwise, you get 'Somehow, Palpatine returned' kind of crap.

Wait..wtf...Palpatine returned! Alexander's brother???

 

[Stan5851]

I do completely agree and as noted in Tess' post which you added, especially on the 'dom' path (which in reality should be re-labelled...the not being walked all over path) it will be nice to actually see a pro-active Kane, making decisions for himself and taking control of his life/situation as opposed to (as I said earlier), by and large receiving lots of helping hands and favors to get where he currently is.

That literally made me LOL for real (and good job I wasn't drinking coffee at the time haha)...but that leads along with my previous post. I do completely agree and as noted in Tess' post which you added, especially on the 'dom' path (which in reality should be re-labelled...the not being walked all over path) it will be nice to actually see a pro-active Kane, making decisions for himself and taking control of his life/situation as opposed to (as I said earlier), by and large receiving lots of helping hands and favors to get where he currently is.

I don't agree that Kane is an idiot, he's just a man with no specialised training who's put in an extreme situation and has to learn literally on the fly despite all his knowledge from his upbringing.

But I agree that so far KaneDom's path looks like a walk so far in many ways... and I too would love to see an independent Kane, taking full control of his life and relying less on help and favours from the powerful around him. But I think we're a long way from that yet and we're not in a position to turn down help and allies just yet. On the contrary, in ep8 we will have to find new ones and decide which faction we are willing to join. Allies are needed even for the sisters already at the top and our KaneDom isn't even Z1 yet to try and play his own game.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Unless he has hidden knowledge and is also acting like Olivia. It could be plausible.

This dude had to have it spelled out for him that he was being felt up. I don't see him being Kaiser Sose.

 

[Maviarab]

But I think we're a long way from that yet and we're not in a position to turn down help and allies just yet. On the contrary, in ep8 we will have to find new ones and decide which faction we are willing to join. Allies are needed even for the sisters already at the top and our KaneDom isn't even Z1 yet to try and play his own game.

*le-sigh*...you're right...

Let's get through the game show (though I'm very interested in my no game show path now given we're looking at what, three updates for Chapter 8?)...then once we're through that and not skewered against a wall in our birthday suit, we shall see how much more assertive we start being!

In the meantime I'm gonna have a coffee while I sit in my lounger and watch Amy wax the Bugatti...poor girl working up a sweat

 

[Sharpshooter890]

In the meantime I'm gonna have a coffee while I sit in my lounger and watch Amy wax the Bugatti...poor girl working up a sweat

Hmm, I personally wouldn't trust Amy with a Bugatti. She's clumsy AF, that's how she ended up in here. Better put that immigrant Svetlana to work while Amy does what she does best - serving you on her knees.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Kane and Olivia didn't grow up in poverty. He lived in poverty as an adult. As for the rest, re-read my post about whether Callista had a choice at all... Also, don't forget that here we have a dystopia in a post-apocalyptic world, and it's a bit strange to me to see you complaining that Kane wasn't asked for consent or that the chances of Kane dying are greater than 0...

Everyone has a chance to die in this world, and as you know, only 3 characters are guaranteed not to die. And personally, I wouldn't want to play as Kane if he, like Olivia, was assigned to some important position like Warden right after the events started, where he would live quietly and peacefully. Where's the challenge then? The game would lose interest if Kane was invulnerable to failure (and even death). I think that's an obvious fact.

I am sure that in time the whole truth will be revealed to us, and then you and I with a clear head will be able to assess what happened and make appropriate decisions.

Im not questioning the game or why Kane needs to be in trouble from a gameplay aspect. That reasoning works fine.

My issue lies in Callista's actions. She absolutely didn't have to put him in danger. She clearly had options and still chose to put him in the path of the Karlssons. Look at every other mother in the game and look at her. Hell compares Elena's actions to Callista's actions. Kane is supposedly her favorite kid, and she basically fucked him over. If the canon ending doesn't revolve around Kane being a dominant personality, Callista has a lot of explaining to do.
Kane's not in danger because of his actions; he's in danger because Mommy's old boyfriend has a crush on her, and Mommy decided to put him in the path of that bullshit without preparing or even asking if he wanted it.

 

[Stan5851]

*le-sigh*...you're right...

Let's get through the game show (though I'm very interested in my no game show path now given we're looking at what, three updates for Chapter 8?)...then once we're through that and not skewered against a wall in our birthday suit, we shall see how much more assertive we start being!

In the meantime I'm gonna have a coffee while I sit in my lounger and watch Amy wax the Bugatti...poor girl working up a sweat

I'd prefer Amy to polish my spear, and Kane's personal virgin maid, Svetlana, will do a good job polishing the Bugatti.

Spoiler: something like this xD

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[MilesEdgeworth]

Cole when he comes back View attachment 3297621

Cole when he finds out Callista's the reason that Kane is in that crazy assed gambit.

 

[Maviarab]

Better put that immigrant Svetlana to work while Amy does what she does best - serving you on her knees.

I'd prefer Amy to polish my spear, and Kane's personal maid virgin maid, Svetlana, will do a good job polishing the Bugatti.

Alright alright...awite....that works too I guess....*grumbles*.....where Amy go?

Cole when he finds out Callista's the reason that Kane is in that crazy assed gambit.

 

[Stan5851]

Im not questioning the game or why Kane needs to be in trouble from a gameplay aspect. That reasoning works fine.

My issue lies in Callista's actions. She absolutely didn't have to put him in danger. She clearly had options and still chose to put him in the path of the Karlssons. Look at every other mother in the game and look at her. Hell compares Elena's actions to Callista's actions. Kane is supposedly her favorite kid, and she basically fucked him over. If the canon ending doesn't revolve around Kane being a dominant personality, Callista has a lot of explaining to do.
Kane's not in danger because of his actions; he's in danger because Mommy's old boyfriend has a crush on her, and Mommy decided to put him in the path of that bullshit without preparing or even asking if he wanted it.

That Callista had options is still just your assumption, but it can't be confirmed, we just don't know it. Whereas the fact that Alexander (and it's very likely since it's hinted at in the game) deliberately allowed Callista to raise Olivia (and Kane) away from herself and thus allowed her to keep their "pure hearts and souls", we do know for sure. So I wouldn't jump to premature conclusions yet about "evil" Callista.

Also, I find Maviarab's explanation very reasonable, it lays it all out very well. And it answers perfectly the question about the different approach to training Kane and agent Olivia.

Bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

As for the actual topic...I'm going to give you all a slightly different take on it.

If we assume Calista knew they would both at some point, somehow, be 'summoned' for the Gambit (assuming she was fully aware of Alexander's plans to have a gambit, which I think she was)...then it is entirely possible as Stan pointed out, that it may have been a condition of his.

However, if we look at this from a logical and rational perspective, knowing how brilliant of a mind Calista had, knowing about Alexander's real true final wishes (male heir), then Calista would have known that whatever happens to Kane, as was mentioned before, he is the Neo of this story in a way, especially on the dom path. All the sisters know how important he is, many of the staff also and many even bring this up. On the dom path, he is almost an untouchable God in a way who 'will' rise the ranks. Because, ultimately, he is the single only person who can realise Alexander's wishes (if we forget Seth for a moment, who may or may not actually be Calista's son).

Olivia on the other hand...is just another sister ultimately and completely not required for the Gambit to be successful, there are five other sisters available to bare a male heir with Kane (whether he on the sub or dom path is irelevent to him making babies). So if we continue that particular train of thought, surely (as far as Calista is concenred) it is far better, more logical and far more beneficial to train Olivia up to a standard where she can 'compete' with her half-siblings, given how ruthless, cut-throat and downright dangerous they can all be (yes, even your fave soft-freckled red head lol).

Kane really has a free pass to baby making heaven with a sister (at least for those board members actively trying to achieve Alexander's ultimate wishes) providing he doesn't royally fuck it up for himself. He doesn't even need to be made of aware of this, as everyone else is.

Olivia...she is very much on her own really against the rest of them....

 

[rai1230]

Im not questioning the game or why Kane needs to be in trouble from a gameplay aspect. That reasoning works fine.

My issue lies in Callista's actions. She absolutely didn't have to put him in danger. She clearly had options and still chose to put him in the path of the Karlssons. Look at every other mother in the game and look at her. Hell compares Elena's actions to Callista's actions. Kane is supposedly her favorite kid, and she basically fucked him over. If the canon ending doesn't revolve around Kane being a dominant personality, Callista has a lot of explaining to do.
Kane's not in danger because of his actions; he's in danger because Mommy's old boyfriend has a crush on her, and Mommy decided to put him in the path of that bullshit without preparing or even asking if he wanted it.

exactly until now from her actions she is really a shitty mother to say the least