VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[kinkyshin]

Well-thought-out theory, but one huge problem with that. If Seth is a descendant of Alexander and Callista, there is no longer a need for the gambit since a male descendant of himself and Callista is exactly what he wants.

Except this particular male descent has a genetic disease that will have him crippled until he dies at a relatively young age. Not exactly the 'perfect' child he was looking for.

Also we don't know the full details. For all we know, perhaps anyone with this disease... will pass it down their child as well? That would make Seth completely useless as an heir.

If anything, he'd have Veronica work to cure Seth, put him in the gambit, find a proper bride for him and leave Kane alone.

When Alexander spoke to Veronica, he seemed very confident that there was no cure. He went on about how she couldn't save Astrid, as it was beyond even her.

Callista likely was given Seth by Yvette, which is probably what the meeting in the park was about ( the logistics of picking up Seth).

You mean when Kane was old enough to speak to Veronica? Why would he think Seth is his brother if his mother was never pregnant and she just shows up with a new baby?

Anyways, the problem with my first 2 points is... why bother testing and hiding Seth's identity if he's completely useless anyways...

 

[kinkyshin]

BTW guys, we all assume that there is some kind of 'bomb' inside of Kane. For a few reasons..
1) Cole says something like "I'm concerned about what you said is in Kane's body. I see why Callista thinks she can't just pick him up."
2) Yvette says there is literal danger inside Kane's body.

But I was digging through old posts and saw:

No time to get to everything, but all I would say is that perhaps it's not Kane or Olivia that is driving her actions but Seth. And is she really in control? Sometimes, someone may gamble that some small chance for three is greater than a stronger chance for two but guaranteeing the third goes down. Callista does not know everything anyway -- certainly she has not shared everything with Olivia, and even Olivia is not aware of everything either -- one needs to be very precise with statements/fact and not context/conclusions from clues/dialogue.

Kind of implied the only reason that she handed the kids over to the Karlssons was that it was the only way to save Seth... not because Kane has some sort of 'bomb' inside of him.

Also kind of implies that Olivia knows a lot, but she's not quite the level of secret agent that we think she is.

 

[cyranoetplume2020]

Greetings,

Perhaps my question is a bit off. But, is this chapter 8; chapter 8 only or the season 2 of the game?
Season 01 is arround 12 Go and this one is 9 Go. So i think it is a bit large to only be chapter 08 but i d like to be sure.

Thank you.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

Greetings,

Perhaps my question is a bit off. But, is this chapter 8; chapter 8 only or the season 2 of the game?
Season 01 is arround 12 Go and this one is 9 Go. So i think it is a bit large to only be chapter 08 but i d like to be sure.

Thank you.

The season 1 file is everything through chapter 7. The first 3 chapters are pretty small. At the end of chapter 7 you can make an import save for season 2.

Season 2 is only chapter 8 so far. Chapter 8 is very large and was broken up into 3 parts. Only the first 2 parts of chapter 8 are out right now.

 

[akki_sky]

Well-thought-out theory, but one huge problem with that. If Seth is a descendant of Alexander and Callista, there is no longer a need for the gambit since a male descendant of himself and Callista is exactly what he wants. If anything, he'd have Veronica work to cure Seth, put him in the gambit, find a proper bride for him and leave Kane alone. I believe the only child of Alexander and Callista died in the hospital which is likely when he became a man-whore.

Callista likely was given Seth by Yvette, which is probably what the meeting in the park was about ( the logistics of picking up Seth). I can't expound upon the rest of my theory until the time of Alexander giving Astrid that disease is verified. Current theory is Alexander infects Astrid, they run across a kid with the same disease, they store him with Callista for safe keeping while observing his symptoms from a distance and they pick him up at the same time as Kane enters the gambit since Alexanders dead and there's nobody else to stop them from experimenting a cure.

This is good theory. Till now I used to believe Seth could be son of Calista and Alexander. But your theory is better. Now I can see why Yevette took risk to meet Calista. She could only do that for her daughter.

Most likely Alexander used disease from Seth's blood. He is not any random same disease person but he is the source of Astrid infection. That is why Yevette gave Seth to most intelligent person she knows to find cure for Astrid.

 

[akki_sky]

BTW guys, we all assume that there is some kind of 'bomb' inside of Kane. For a few reasons..
1) Cole says something like "I'm concerned about what you said is in Kane's body. I see why Callista thinks she can't just pick him up."
2) Yvette says there is literal danger inside Kane's body.

But I was digging through old posts and saw:



Kind of implied the only reason that she handed the kids over to the Karlssons was that it was the only way to save Seth... not because Kane has some sort of 'bomb' inside of him.

Also kind of implies that Olivia knows a lot, but she's not quite the level of secret agent that we think she is.

Calista sent kids over to Karlson's because she wanted to give them chance to earn power to protect themselves.

Cole is concerned about body pain chip that is inside Kane. On maximum setting it can kill person after few seconds. If I remembered correctly, we have seen this when Kane kills guy who is responsible for his imprisonment. That is what Yevette also mentioned. For same reason revolution gang want that hacker who worked on chips to help them deactivate chips.

 

[Stan5851]

Also kind of implies that Olivia knows a lot, but she's not quite the level of secret agent that we think she is.

No one claimed Olivia's knowledge was absolute or close to it. No agent can know everything. But even what Callista has passed on to her is enough to have hidden advantages that no one else knows about. Besides, assuming that it was Liv who was at Alesander's deathbed (which is the basic tenet of "agent Olivia" theory) and it was her that Alexander himself wanted to talk to before he died (a bold hint of this is shown at the end of the very first scene from Ep0.8.2 pt1), that would be enough to consider Olivia an agent who knows much more than the Karlsson sisters think. (imo)

Regarding the "bomb" in Kane's body. It's hard to say what is meant, but if we think rationally and take into account the fact that Kane as the future (and, apparently, the only) probable father of the future heir suits everyone, it's unlikely that this "bomb" can threaten him in terms of genetic diseases and the like.

I think Tess will hide the truth as long as possible, and we won't soon find out what was really meant by Kane's "unique blood" and the very "bomb" inside him... And I'm not even ruling out that those two different definitions actually mean the same thing.

 

[Stan5851]

Cole is concerned about body pain chip that is inside Kane. On maximum setting it can kill person after few seconds.

I highly doubt there is such a chip in Kane's body. At least, I haven't seen any mention of it. As far as I can tell, Callista ran away from Alexander with her unborn child (Kane). So she "controlled" all of Kane's childhood and adolescence, and no one could just implant Kane with such a chip.

As you know, Alexander did the easier thing - he gave Callista an ultimatum, one of the conditions of which was that the adult Kane would participate in a special program. In exchange, he guaranteed Callista that he would not kill either Liv or Kane (perhaps these threats were an empty bluff, but I can't claim that 100%.. either way, Callista believed it).

 

[Ricthequick]

BTW guys, we all assume that there is some kind of 'bomb' inside of Kane. For a few reasons..
1) Cole says something like "I'm concerned about what you said is in Kane's body. I see why Callista thinks she can't just pick him up."
2) Yvette says there is literal danger inside Kane's body.

But I was digging through old posts and saw:



Kind of implied the only reason that she handed the kids over to the Karlssons was that it was the only way to save Seth... not because Kane has some sort of 'bomb' inside of him.

Also kind of implies that Olivia knows a lot, but she's not quite the level of secret agent that we think she is.

Hmm I don't know, a year or so ago I was providing some feedback about Callista and her actions, and as part of the answer Tess wrote me this.



So yes your theory might be right without having to discount the fact that there is indeed a "bomb" inside of Kane.

 

[kinkyshin]

Till now I used to believe Seth could be son of Calista and Alexander.

Well, you're the only person here who thought so. We have all long since ruled it out since it's not possible if Seth and Olivia are not related...

Cole is concerned about body pain chip that is inside Kane. On maximum setting it can kill person after few seconds. If I remembered correctly, we have seen this when Kane kills guy who is responsible for his imprisonment. That is what Yevette also mentioned. For same reason revolution gang want that hacker who worked on chips to help them deactivate chips.

No, it's definitely not.
Kane is very well aware of the shock chip inside of him, but when Yvette told him that there's danger literally inside of him, his reaction was '(What would distract me and shit... literally inside doesn't sound good...)' Why would she say that if it was just the shock chip (which he already knows about) and why would he be surprised if that was the case...

Regarding the "bomb" in Kane's body. It's hard to say what is meant, but if we think rationally and take into account the fact that Kane as the future (and, apparently, the only) probable father of the future heir suits everyone, it's unlikely that this "bomb" can threaten him in terms of genetic diseases and the like.

I think Tess will hide the truth as long as possible, and we won't soon find out what was really meant by Kane's "unique blood" and the very "bomb" inside him... And I'm not even ruling out that those two different definitions actually mean the same thing.

In regards to the 'bomb', Yvette says "No distractions... there is real danger to you knowing a few things too early. Danger literally inside of you." By saying this, I feel like she sort of implies that the 'bomb' is related to him knowing certain things too early. Both Elena and Otto tell Kane that Callista should've taken more risk and told him more. Obviously it's very possible that the 'bomb' likely isn't whatever we think it is, but yea... I think Yvette's sentence is interesting.

I highly doubt there is such a chip in Kane's body. At least, I haven't seen any mention of it. As far as I can tell, Callista ran away from Alexander with her unborn child (Kane). So she "controlled" all of Kane's childhood and adolescence, and no one could just implant Kane with such a chip.

As you know, Alexander did the easier thing - he gave Callista an ultimatum, one of the conditions of which was that the adult Kane would participate in a special program. In exchange, he guaranteed Callista that he would not kill either Liv or Kane (perhaps these threats were an empty bluff, but I can't claim that 100%.. either way, Callista believed it).

He just means the regular shock chip that Kane received when he entered the program.

 

[kinkyshin]

Hmm I don't know, a year or so ago I was providing some feedback about Callista and her actions, and as part of the answer Tess wrote me this.

View attachment 4921537

So yes your theory might be right without having to discount the fact that there is indeed a "bomb" inside of Kane.

Okay, so I guess a 'bomb' isn't so far off then. Cool post.

 

[kinkyshin]

Hmm I don't know, a year or so ago I was providing some feedback about Callista and her actions, and as part of the answer Tess wrote me this.

View attachment 4921537

So yes your theory might be right without having to discount the fact that there is indeed a "bomb" inside of Kane.

So...

I'm wondering if Callista has a 'bomb' inside of her as well.

mom "Even with a gun pointed at me...you and I have still given him a chance love..."
scene e8pool2 with mediumdissolve
mom "I think he's had a pretty good childhood...a home of love and laughter."
mom "Away from them..."
scene e8pool3 with mediumdissolve
mom "...it's more than we could have hoped for..."
scene e8pool4 with mediumdissolve
mom "I didn't listen to my heart...it always knew the truth...until it was too late. I'm so sorry."
mom "I'm so sorry for everything...some genius I am."
scene e8pool5 with mediumdissolve
mom "But I won't give up."
mom "There's still a chance for [pname], but I don't have much hope for myself anymore..."

And the bracelet that Kane was given (which opens an access point), as well as Nadia's obsession with Kane being at least k7 to 'gain access' is related to diffusing this.

 

[Stan5851]

So...

I'm wondering if Callista has a 'bomb' inside of her as well.



And the bracelet that Kane was given (which opens an access point), as well as Nadia's obsession with Kane being at least k7 to 'gain access' is related to diffusing this.

Well, that makes sense. Maybe Nadia knows about the "bomb" too (whatever it is) and is trying to help Kane somehow...Yeah, I remember those words from Yvette (dialog when Kane was talking to her and Astrid), but they didn't provide any clarity. Based on Tess' response quoted above, it appears as follows:

The bomb inside Kane is still some sort of remote access device(?) that could stop Kane's life instantly. If that's the case, it could be one of the few things V hasn't been able to hack into, which Alexander promised to give her access to if she fulfills his last request for a meeting with (insert the right name, mine is Liv).

So, then perhaps Kane's life could be in the hands of Veronica, who is not noted for her hasty decisions and impulsive actions. If so, Kane's life is safe for the moment. I dont know how Yvette could even know about this "bomb" if Tess mentions that only Callista and one other person knows about it (probably Alexander). So most likely Veronica could have told Yvette about it..And the worst case scenario is if this "bomb" is not under V control, but I honestly can't imagine that.

 

[Stan5851]

It's because Kane can be killed immediately inside his body (only Callista and another person know this) so she needs to ensure this is resolved first. She has to ensure a specific person does not know she is alive and/or hope that person doesn't kill Kane right away.

Hmm, it doesn't seem to be Alexander at all, since he knows full well that Callista was alive and raising Kane and Liv all those years...Well, things just got even more confusing.

 

[kinkyshin]

Well, that makes sense. Maybe Nadia knows about the "bomb" too (whatever it is) and is trying to help Kane somehow...Yeah, I remember those words from Yvette (dialog when Kane was talking to her and Astrid), but they didn't provide any clarity. Based on Tess' response quoted above, it appears as follows:

The bomb inside Kane is still some sort of remote access device(?) that could stop Kane's life instantly. If that's the case, it could be one of the few things V hasn't been able to hack into, which Alexander promised to give her access to if she fulfills his last request for a meeting with (insert the right name, mine is Liv).

So, then perhaps Kane's life could be in the hands of Veronica, who is not noted for her hasty decisions and impulsive actions. If so, Kane's life is safe for the moment. I dont know how Yvette could even know about this "bomb" if Tess mentions that only Callista and one other person knows about it (probably Alexander). So most likely Veronica could have told Yvette about it..And the worst case scenario is if this "bomb" is not under V control, but I honestly can't imagine that.

Err, it's definitely not Veronica if that's what you meant.

It's because Kane can be killed immediately inside his body (only Callista and another person know this) so she needs to ensure this is resolved first. She has to ensure a specific person does not know she is alive and/or hope that person doesn't kill Kane right away.

Hmm, it doesn't seem to be Alexander at all, since he knows full well that Callista was alive and raising Kane and Liv all those years...Well, things just got even more confusing.

Looks like a lot of people know at this point lol. Callista, Nadia, Otto, Kiyomi, Cole, and Yvette all seem to know. Perhaps Elena too since Callista told her that she would explain to her why she did the things the way she did... which would be impossible without telling this information, as it was critical to her decisions.

I'm very confident that the 7th board member could only be Astrid or a character that hasn't been introduced yet. If it's the latter, perhaps that's the person with the power to delete Kane/Callista. I'm also wondering if either Juliette or Alessandra has a mother that's still around. Alexander did warn Olivia that his former lovers will scheme until their dying breath. So far we've only seen 3 of his former lovers and 2 of them are completely on Olivia's side lol.

 

[Stan5851]

Err, it's definitely not Veronica if that's what you meant.



Looks like a lot of people know at this point lol. Callista, Nadia, Otto, Kiyomi, Cole, and Yvette all seem to know. Perhaps Elena too since Callista told her that she would explain to her why she did the things the way she did... which would be impossible without telling this information, as it was critical to her decisions.

I'm very confident that the 7th board member could only be Astrid or a character that hasn't been introduced yet. If it's the latter, perhaps that's the person with the power to delete Kane/Callista. I'm also wondering if either Juliette or Alessandra has a mother that's still around. Alexander did warn Olivia that his former lovers will scheme until their dying breath. So far we've only seen 3 of his former lovers and 2 of them are completely on Olivia's side lol.

Well, if things get really bad and this mysterious(?) malcontent gets in our way, I hope V has an analog of a Faraday cage or some sort of completely shielded from waves and electromagnetic fields bunker to isolate Kane and extract this "bomb".We have a few geniuses (Veronica, Astrid, Callista, Cole) so surely there must be specialists with the appropriate competence in minimally invasive surgery.

About the 7th board member, yeah, I'm sticking to that same theory (either Astrid or someone we haven't been shown yet).

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Except this particular male descent has a genetic disease that will have him crippled until he dies at a relatively young age. Not exactly the 'perfect' child he was looking for.

I feel like the same veronica that can determine the sex of a child before they're born can probably remove any defects from Seth's sperm if it came to that.

So now two new theories possibly come to light.
Whether or not Callista was trying to save Seth?
Possible, but helping Seth helps Astrid; I don't see why Callista would have to use her other son to save him.

Who is this mysterious person who doesn't know Callista is alive, or they'd kill Kane?
By process of elimination, we can probably figure it out. We can remove anybody not on the board. Dekocks wouldn't do it they'd be killing their power source. Claudia would be interesting, but that's not how she operates, and nobody else is big enough to have access to something like that in the game.
Let's now eliminate the board members. Elena and Veronica both know Callista is alive, since she has told them herself. Yvette is all about the revolution and keeping her daughters after. Juliette and Dom want to be the head of the company, and killing Kane is detrimental to that. This leaves two options: our mysterious seventh member or Alessandra. Until we find out the seventh member, I'll tentatively consider Alessandra. Callista didn't reveal herself to Alessandra when she could've easily done so near the beginning. Her father, at the beginning, told her she could kill him. She fits well. Especially if it comes out that Veronica worked with Callista to kill Alexander ( that's a theory for another day).

 

[Ricthequick]

Well, if things get really bad and this mysterious(?) malcontent gets in our way, I hope V has an analog of a Faraday cage or some sort of completely shielded from waves and electromagnetic fields bunker to isolate Kane and extract this "bomb".We have a few geniuses (Veronica, Astrid, Callista, Cole) so surely there must be specialists with the appropriate competence in minimally invasive surgery.

About the 7th board member, yeah, I'm sticking to that same theory (either Astrid or someone we haven't been shown yet).

I hope I didn't start a red herring chase to the "bomb" or whatever by sharing that message I got on Patreon.
All I can add is that back then I was on my 2nd playrthough, with a very dumb Kane, and while I was expressing my overall compliments for the VN I was pointing out how the 2 scenes at the begiining of that chapter:

• Kane + Callista = Flashback in the undergrownd lake
• Elena + Callista = on the hanging bridge

were imo working with a dominant (or at least partially sucessfull) Kane, one who's not suffering too much, but were giving me a whiplash effect with a submissive Kane who was suffering like hell (I think it was provisional K1, I was trying my best to fail at everything haha).

Why would a loving mother, by then fully aware of how badly her son is faring not do anything more urgently to save him?
She clearly could waltz in the Karlsson institute, and not only that, but also inside of Veronica's sancta sanctorum, what would stop her from helping him?

The answer is the one I got in that screenshot.

 

[kinkyshin]

Claudia would be interesting, but that's not how she operates, and nobody else is big enough to have access to something like that in the game.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

View attachment 4922328

Claudia tortures, she doesn't kill right away. Look at what she's doing to her husband