VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[YuNobi1]

Ok, it's time to cook. Here’s what I think based on everything we know so far. I'm not spoiling because this is mostly speculation. Luke is likely the son of Alexander and Callista; once that accident happened, which killed Luke, Alexander probably blamed Callista and started slinging dick everywhere.

This leads us to ask why he got rid of Olivia. Was it to punish Elena? Doubtful, that was just an added bonus. I imagine he didn’t want Olivia around him because she resembled one of his sisters, and he didn’t want to be around a constant reminder of what he lost. So in exchange for getting rid of that reminder, he “let Callista go.” Even though I doubt he wanted her around anyway after Cole knocked her up.

As for the daughters. I believe that Astrid is probably older than Alessandra. It likely explains why Alessandra seemingly got off so easily. When we first play the game, we learn that Juliette and Dominique are favored to take over the company, and Veronica is a genius. We later learned that Alexander wanted Astrid to work in the family business, but she didn’t want to play ball. Yet, he largely ignored Alessandra. Why’s that? Because he likely ignored her, and she played up the whole party girl daughter to encourage him to think like that while plotting from the shadows.

One final thing about Grym Gudinna, which is likely unimportant to the overall picture, but it’s a decent revelation. Grym Gudinna translates to cruel goddess in English. Even if you believe the walkthrough didn’t give spoilers away, you can immediately eliminate two of the sisters, as neither Dominique nor Veronica would refer to themselves as that.

The Big Three ("B3" =Veronica/Elena/Yvette) state that Alexander's ultimate goal was a son from him and the perfect woman, or at the very least a son period, and the other sisters confirm this second goal. So why would Alexander destroy either of his lifelong goals is if Luke was his son, by Callista or otherwise. Veronica confirms in a B3 meeting that Kane is THE son of Callista (so Seth isn't her blood son). If the accident "was no accident" and Callista was the sole survivor with as powerful, careful, and paranoid of a planner as Alexander, he arranged it to ensure that Callista survived, and that she was the only one that could. He banged both Elena and Yvette, who had given birth before Callista even fled (pregnant with Kane upon flight, and age gap between Olivia and Kane).

I'm not sure where you're getting that Alexander ignored Alessandra, as she also went through the trials, but she apparently sees her older sisters as being too soft, as they complain about having "invisible scars" while Alessandra views it as "Oh just boring past events that were of no issue" (in so many words). We also learn right off the bat that she's a mathematical genius, and thus runs all of KG's accounting, which apparently isn't a managerial position, which she states she prefers that lack of drudgery-- I mean: responsibility.

I'm also not sure how you can conclude that Dominique and Veronica, who have self-described as being "cruel" and even performing/perpetuating evil, would therefore not refer to herself as "cruel goddess". Furthermore, Callista is supporting Grymm, but Elena will confess that an evil Olivia will effectively make "Callista roll over in her grave after seeing you take this path," so who would a good "good Callista" support in the Gambit?

 

[newdawn75]

How do you get romance open with alessandra?

 

[Sharpshooter890]

Ok, it's time to cook. Here’s what I think based on everything we know so far. I'm not spoiling because this is mostly speculation. Luke is likely the son of Alexander and Callista; once that accident happened, which killed Luke, Alexander probably blamed Callista and started slinging dick everywhere.

This leads us to ask why he got rid of Olivia. Was it to punish Elena? Doubtful, that was just an added bonus. I imagine he didn’t want Olivia around him because she resembled one of his sisters, and he didn’t want to be around a constant reminder of what he lost. So in exchange for getting rid of that reminder, he “let Callista go.” Even though I doubt he wanted her around anyway after Cole knocked her up.

As for the daughters. I believe that Astrid is probably older than Alessandra. It likely explains why Alessandra seemingly got off so easily. When we first play the game, we learn that Juliette and Dominique are favored to take over the company, and Veronica is a genius. We later learned that Alexander wanted Astrid to work in the family business, but she didn’t want to play ball. Yet, he largely ignored Alessandra. Why’s that? Because he likely ignored her, and she played up the whole party girl daughter to encourage him to think like that while plotting from the shadows.

One final thing about Grym Gudinna, which is likely unimportant to the overall picture, but it’s a decent revelation. Grym Gudinna translates to cruel goddess in English. Even if you believe the walkthrough didn’t give spoilers away, you can immediately eliminate two of the sisters, as neither Dominique nor Veronica would refer to themselves as that.

I can smell your cooking, and I like it.
I agree on Luke theory and dunno on Olivia (need more info). Astrid could be older than Jules/Alessa, she goes to cryosleep because of her sickness, so she might seem younger than she actually is.

As for Grym Gudinna, I kinda thought it was agreed upon that it was Alessa. I swear I've read in this thread before that it's swedish for Cruel Goddess, and there's only one Goddess in the game - Alessa. SecretSub path makes it crystal clear beyond any shadow of a doubt. I'd bet Silver_Crow117's kidneys on it.

How do you get romance open with alessandra?

True love/romance option for her is reserved for SecretSub route I think, look it up in the walkthrough. For the sex scenes, however, all you need is to be a regular Dom.

 

[Maviarab]

Ok, it's time to cook. Here’s what I think based on everything we know so far. I'm not spoiling because this is mostly speculation. Luke is likely the son of Alexander and Callista; once that accident happened, which killed Luke, Alexander probably blamed Callista and started slinging dick everywhere.

This leads us to ask why he got rid of Olivia. Was it to punish Elena? Doubtful, that was just an added bonus. I imagine he didn’t want Olivia around him because she resembled one of his sisters, and he didn’t want to be around a constant reminder of what he lost. So in exchange for getting rid of that reminder, he “let Callista go.” Even though I doubt he wanted her around anyway after Cole knocked her up.

As for the daughters. I believe that Astrid is probably older than Alessandra. It likely explains why Alessandra seemingly got off so easily. When we first play the game, we learn that Juliette and Dominique are favored to take over the company, and Veronica is a genius. We later learned that Alexander wanted Astrid to work in the family business, but she didn’t want to play ball. Yet, he largely ignored Alessandra. Why’s that? Because he likely ignored her, and she played up the whole party girl daughter to encourage him to think like that while plotting from the shadows.

One final thing about Grym Gudinna, which is likely unimportant to the overall picture, but it’s a decent revelation. Grym Gudinna translates to cruel goddess in English. Even if you believe the walkthrough didn’t give spoilers away, you can immediately eliminate two of the sisters, as neither Dominique nor Veronica would refer to themselves as that.

How do you get romance open with alessandra?

Need to be on the dom path with Kane...in the scene where you meet Olivia for the first time and Alessandra appears and you start to massage Alessandra....pick her feet. She will ask if you are more submissive sexually. Follow this along and you're on the path. Be aware, she doesn't treat you terribly nicely to begin with on this path (in the bedroom). The rest of the route is the same as a normal dom path.

First;
not talking to you or calling you out.

Just dropping my two cents cause I can.

Whatever dude....

The Big Three ("B3" =Veronica/Elena/Yvette) state that Alexander's ultimate goal was a son from him and the perfect woman, or at the very least a son period, and the other sisters confirm this second goal. So why would Alexander destroy either of his lifelong goals is if Luke was his son, by Callista or otherwise. Veronica confirms in a B3 meeting that Kane is THE son of Callista (so Seth isn't her blood son). If the accident "was no accident" and Callista was the sole survivor with as powerful, careful, and paranoid of a planner as Alexander, he arranged it to ensure that Callista survived, and that she was the only one that could. He banged both Elena and Yvette, who had given birth before Callista even fled (pregnant with Kane upon flight, and age gap between Olivia and Kane).

I'm not sure where you're getting that Alexander ignored Alessandra, as she also went through the trials, but she apparently sees her older sisters as being too soft, as they complain about having "invisible scars" while Alessandra views it as "Oh just boring past events that were of no issue" (in so many words). We also learn right off the bat that she's a mathematical genius, and thus runs all of KG's accounting, which apparently isn't a managerial position, which she states she prefers that lack of drudgery-- I mean: responsibility.

I'm also not sure how you can conclude that Dominique and Veronica, who have self-described as being "cruel" and even performing/perpetuating evil, would therefore not refer to herself as "cruel goddess". Furthermore, Callista is supporting Grymm, but Elena will confess that an evil Olivia will effectively make "Callista roll over in her grave after seeing you take this path," so who would a good "good Callista" support in the Gambit?

All of Miles' comments and logical assumption come directly from things within the game. Maybe you should learn to start reading things more carefully and/or play all the available paths so you have all the information to hand instead?

FACTS:
1) Veronica tells Olivia that Alexander's relationship with Dominique's mom was already finished by the time he and Callista began their relationship.
2) Dominique tells Kane that her mom died when she was very young.
3) Dominique has her own private Japanese bamboo (thick, Chinese is thin) garden and pagoda inside the Joy Facility.
4) Callista tells Grymm that Alexander's single moment of happiness in his life was when he fell in love [no doubt with Callista] on the steps of the Shinto Temple in Africa.

Theory: Dominique's mother was a practitioner of Japanese Shintoism, but having died shortly after Dominique's birth, her funeral rites took place at the temple, where Callista, likely a friend of the dearly departed, comforted Alexander in their mutual grief (on the temple steps) where he fell in love, and seeing Callista's heart, on top of her intellectual and artistic genius, Alexander realized that he had found the perfect woman. Due to the prior association, and the fact that Otto states Cole and Alexander together recruited the esteemed scientist Callista, and her friend Elena to found KG, the company therefore existed before Dominique lost her mother, but debatable whether it also predates Dominique's birth.
As for Alessandra's and Juliette's mothers, most likely they were the replacement Board members after Callista "disappeared" and Cole was "murdered". What happened to them is anyone's guess

Nice theory, but completely contradicted by Tess and or events in the story.

Also, Otto has thirty-third hand information..and is also pressing a narrative of his own.
We only have Dominique's (second-hand) word her mother actually died.
Tess has said they were all friends before the forming of the KG.

Gonna say it again...start actually digesting what you read in the VN and not fitting stuff that exists in your head to suit a narrative that isn't there.

With the pier flashback, Cole tells Callista what to name [MC], so she's pregnant with him when she flees, and far enough along to know her pre-born child is a boy (and therefore would definitely know if there was more than one). Luke is only mentioned in the first helicopter crash flashback, and since Callista doesn't worry over or even mention [MC] in her womb, she's certain any fetus(es) was/were unaffected by the crash, so Luke was at least another passenger who "didn't survive" as the doctor reported. My money is that he was the pilot.

Luke wasn't in the helicpter crash...it was years earlier. There are no twins...Callista in hospital and the helicopter crash are literally years aapart and completely seperate events...seriously...

I do wonder where some of your thoughts actually come from or if you really do pay attention because when you fail to grasp even those simple facts (amongst many, many others), it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

The Big Three ("B3" =Veronica/Elena/Yvette) state that Alexander's ultimate goal was a son from him and the perfect woman, or at the very least a son period, and the other sisters confirm this second goal. So why would Alexander destroy either of his lifelong goals is if Luke was his son, by Callista or otherwise. Veronica confirms in a B3 meeting that Kane is THE son of Callista (so Seth isn't her blood son). If the accident "was no accident" and Callista was the sole survivor with as powerful, careful, and paranoid of a planner as Alexander, he arranged it to ensure that Callista survived, and that she was the only one that could. He banged both Elena and Yvette, who had given birth before Callista even fled (pregnant with Kane upon flight, and age gap between Olivia and Kane).

I never said that Alexander caused the accident. I imagine that Alexander had plenty of enemies that would want him and those close to him dead. If Luke was the first kid, which he would have to be, what he did after doesn't matter for this theory.

I'm not sure where you're getting that Alexander ignored Alessandra, as she also went through the trials. Still, she apparently sees her older sisters as being too soft, as they complain about having "invisible scars" while Alessandra views it as "Oh just boring past events that were of no issue" (in so many words). We also learn right off the bat that she's a mathematical genius, and thus runs all of KG's accounting, which apparently isn't a managerial position, which she states she prefers that lack of drudgery-- I mean: responsibility.

Veronica was the genius, and we know Alexander used her big time. Juliette and Dominique were both his proposed heirs at the beginning of the game. Astrid was punished for defying him. The fact that the only thing we know about Alessandra's connection with her father is that he's her father, and she didn't mind what she went through is telling about how much attention he paid to her.

I'm also not sure how you can conclude that Dominique and Veronica, who have self-described as being "cruel" and even performing/perpetuating evil, would therefore not refer to herself as "cruel goddess". Furthermore, Callista is supporting Grymm, but Elena will confess that an evil Olivia will effectively make "Callista roll over in her grave after seeing you take this path," so who would a good "good Callista" support in the Gambit?

Dominique is conflicted and constantly tries to be good; she would never call herself a cruel goddess. Veronica might do cruel things, but she does them in the name of science. She doesn't revel in her cruelty, definitely wouldn't give herself a name that would boast about her cruelty.
Where do you get she's supporting Grymm? She's working with her because she has to, doesn't mean she supports her or the things she does.

I can smell your cooking, and I like it.
I agree on Luke theory and dunno on Olivia (need more info). Astrid could be older than Jules/Alessa, she goes to cryosleep because of her sickness, so she might seem younger than she actually is.

As for Grym Gudinna, I kinda thought it was agreed upon that it was Alessa. I swear I've read in this thread before that it's swedish for Cruel Goddess, and there's only one Goddess in the game - Alessa. SecretSub path makes it crystal clear beyond any shadow of a doubt. I'd bet Silver_Crow117's kidneys on it.

I forgot to put this part, but Olivia looks like one of Alexander's sisters revelation comes from the beginning of chapter 5 during Olivia's talk with her mother.
Once again, I deny myself important information due to my refusal to do sub-things

 

[Maviarab]

I forgot to put this part, but Olivia looks like one of Alexander's sisters revelation comes from the beginning of chapter 5 during Olivia's talk with her mother.

Correct...a scene difficult to miss really given Olivia's reaction to the photo.

Once again, I deny myself important information due to my refusal to do sub-things

Yup..on the secret sub path Alessa demands you call her your Goddess.

 

[YuNobi1]

Also, Otto has thirty-third hand information..and is also pressing a narrative.
We only have Dominiques (second-hand) word her mother actually died.
Tess has said they were all friends before the forming of the KG.

I do wonder where some of your thoughts actually come from or if you really do pay attention because when you fail to grasp even those simple facts (amongst many, many others), it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

Then please clear up where my confusion is:




Help me with my math: If Otto has at least 2 sources that are firsthand witnesses, what level of witness does that make him?

Luke wasn't in the helicpter crash...it was years earlier. There are no twins...Callista in hospital and the helicopter crash are literally years aapart and completely seperate events...seriously...

I do wonder where some of your thoughts actually come from or if you really do pay attention because when you fail to grasp even those simple facts (amongst many, many others), it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

Okay, I concede that apparently I have been spending too much time on this forum and not in the game, as I got it in my head that there were TWO helicopter crashes, one caused by Alexander when Callista tried to escape, and the second staged by Callista. "I don't believe this was an accident" is applicable to any vehicular crash... and several other types of "accidental" deaths. Since Callista fell unconscious in the "not accident", and remained so during the whole trip to the hospital until now, and she does not name to Dr. Smith who she wants a status update on, that means there was but one "him", and no one else, with Callista in the "not accident". Since Callista thinks about only Luke, and not Olivia, Kane, or Seth, so this "not accident" happened either before they were an entity under her care (likely considering her age), or they were otherwise inexplicably not with her. Callista confirms in Ep. 8

Spoiler

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If Cole is so sure that Callista's escape plan will work, then their farewell at the pier has to occur before the "not accident"

You were the one who theorized Luke being a fetus. ...For one, the preferred language for an in utero death is "[we/you] lost him/her," not "he's gone" which is common language for a post-birth death, but regardless: Callista is pregnant with Kane on the eve of her escape, and far enough alone for Cole to know that it's a boy and thus name his son.

So in order for your "Luke is a fetus" theory to be correct, with the "not accident" happening after Callista left KG, but before the "Olivia Pact" with Alexander, which itself occurs before Kane's birth, the "not accident" most logically occurred during Callista's pregnancy with Kane, and probably happened in her actual escape attempt, Luke would have to be Kane's lost twin brother. Now, it's certainly possible that Kane has a dead/lost brother, who isn't Seth, as Veronica believes Kane is Callista's only son.

All of Miles' comments and logical assumption come directly from things within the game. Maybe you should learn to start reading things more carefully and/or play all the available paths so you have all the informaiton to hand instead?

So you're saying that Miles is right in theorizing that Alexander wanted to destroy the very thing he wanted most in life: His son via Callista?

The current situation is merely a "final opportunity" to fulfill his lifelong dream.

We know that this isn't a lie Veronica is peddling.



As for Alessandra:






Since Veronica is hiding Astrid from the Board, she isn't the evidence "we (V/D/J) have". This highly suggests "invisible scars", especially considering their "mood crash" when Kane suggests that they had it easier than he can ever face.






While Alessandra admits that her father's brutality "was hard" she is not phased by it like her sisters are (who have a complete change of attitude). While she manages KG's finances, she is only sister who's not a department head, and she says that she likes it that way, believing that such stress is what keeps V/D/J from being happy. She also clarifies that her lifestyle and running the company are not the same path, and that Kane could make her life his, or "win the Gambit".

Dominique is conflicted and constantly tries to be good; she would never call herself a cruel goddess. Veronica might do cruel things, but she does them in the name of science. She doesn't revel in her cruelty, definitely wouldn't give herself a name that would boast about her cruelty.
Where do you get she's supporting Grymm? She's working with her because she has to, doesn't mean she supports her or the things she does.

As for Veronica's and Dominique's cruelty, I already have too many screenshots, so I'll just list a few. Evil is pain and death for the sake of pain and death, thus Juliette, Alessandra, and Evil Olivia/Kane inflict pain and death on others, and get a kick out of doing so. Good is mercy, forgiveness, foregoing any form of punishment, as exemplified by Good Olivia/Kane chooses. Veronica and Dominique exert the same cruelty as their sisters and Y/E occasionally minus the evil. Dominique still punishes/tortures her slaves for no reason (e.g. has a slave in her video conference room kneel in the corner all day with a metal casing covering his hold head), and gets off on inflicting pain on others (punishment during manager training). The key difference between Dominique and Juliette is that Dominique needs to maintain a "healthy" workforce, so killing or torturing to the point of work-hampering injury is going to eat away at said workforce, and it still seems time-intensive to acquire and train new replacements, so she takes the pragmatic approach of not killing too much, though she has no qualms about killing. Veronica, just look at her inventions: shock collars, shock chips, pain pads, "liquid pain", the "products" (slaves) she creates for Juliette to market (see Veronica's first scene), her direct and directed (Katsumi and Juliette) torture of Seth. GoodKane is the poster child of "not cruel", Dominique is "cruel" Veronica is "more cruel" (because at least the torture for Dominique's victims "quickly" ends), and Alessandra and Juliette are competing for "most cruel".


EDIT:

Where do you get she's supporting Grymm? She's working with her because she has to, doesn't mean she supports her or the things she does.

Callista's giving Grymm secrets and clues, and talking strategy to help her win. Do Republican donors ensure that Joe Biden is provided critical winning information, advantage, and strategy? Please point to any line(s) in the conversation that demonstrates Callista needs Grymm at all? Callista clearly has more information than Grymm. Now if you submit that Grymm and Black Mask are the same sister, then yes, I can see Callista needing Grymm, as Black Mask (Veronica) is her agent running the entire Gambit from within. If they are separate, then Grymm makes no contribution, outside of complaining about Elena, instead Callista provides her everything.


If Callista's ultimate goal is to ensure that Kane survives/wins the Gambit, and she knows exactly how the sisters are, then would she ever tell a sister, whom she doesn't want her son to end up with, to therefore turn Kane into that sister's direction?

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Then please clear up where my confusion is:
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Help me with my math: If Otto has at least 2 sources that are firsthand witnesses, what level of witness does that make him?



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Okay, I concede that apparently I have been spending too much time on this forum and not in the game, as I got it in my head that there were TWO helicopter crashes, one caused by Alexander when Callista tried to escape, and the second staged by Callista. "I don't believe this was an accident" is applicable to any vehicular crash... and several other types of "accidental" deaths. Since Callista fell unconscious in the "not accident", and remained so during the whole trip to the hospital until now, and she does not name to Dr. Smith who she wants a status update on, that means there was but one "him", and no one else, with Callista in the "not accident". Since Callista thinks about only Luke, and not Olivia, Kane, or Seth, so this "not accident" happened either before they were an entity under her care (likely considering her age), or they were otherwise inexplicably not with her. Callista confirms in Ep. 8

Spoiler

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If Cole is so sure that Callista's escape plan will work, then their farewell at the pier has to occur before the "not accident"

You were the one who theorized Luke being a fetus. ...For one, the preferred language for an in utero death is "[we/you] lost him/her," not "he's gone" which is common language for a post-birth death, but regardless: Callista is pregnant with Kane on the eve of her escape, and far enough alone for Cole to know that it's a boy and thus name his son.
View attachment 3387871
So in order for your "Luke is a fetus" theory to be correct, with the "not accident" happening after Callista left KG, but before the "Olivia Pact" with Alexander, which itself occurs before Kane's birth, the "not accident" most logically occurred during Callista's pregnancy with Kane, and probably happened in her actual escape attempt, Luke would have to be Kane's lost twin brother. Now, it's certainly possible that Kane has a dead/lost brother, who isn't Seth, as Veronica believes Kane is Callista's only son.
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So you're saying that Miles is right in theorizing that Alexander wanted to destroy the very thing he wanted most in life: His son via Callista?

The current situation is merely a "final opportunity" to fulfill his lifelong dream.
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We know that this isn't a lie Veronica is peddling.
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As for Alessandra:
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Since Veronica is hiding Astrid from the Board, she isn't the evidence "we (V/D/J) have". This highly suggests "invisible scars", especially considering their "mood crash" when Kane suggests that they had it easier than he can ever face.

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While Alessandra admits that her father's brutality "was hard" she is not phased by it like her sisters are (who have a complete change of attitude). While she manages KG's finances, she is only sister who's not a department head, and she says that she likes it that way, believing that such stress is what keeps V/D/J from being happy. She also clarifies that her lifestyle and running the company are not the same path, and that Kane could make her life his, or "win the Gambit".

As for Veronica's and Dominique's cruelty, I already have too many screenshots, so I'll just list a few. Evil is pain and death for the sake of pain and death, thus Juliette, Alessandra, and Evil Olivia/Kane inflict pain and death on others, and get a kick out of doing so. Good is mercy, forgiveness, foregoing any form of punishment, as exemplified by Good Olivia/Kane chooses. Veronica and Dominique exert the same cruelty as their sisters and Y/E occasionally minus the evil. Dominique still punishes/tortures her slaves for no reason (e.g. has a slave in her video conference room kneel in the corner all day with a metal casing covering his hold head), and gets off on inflicting pain on others (punishment during manager training). The key difference between Dominique and Juliette is that Dominique needs to maintain a "healthy" workforce, so killing or torturing to the point of work-hampering injury is going to eat away at said workforce, and it still seems time-intensive to acquire and train new replacements, so she takes the pragmatic approach of not killing too much, though she has no qualms about killing. Veronica, just look at her inventions: shock collars, shock chips, pain pads, "liquid pain", the "products" (slaves) she creates for Juliette to market (see Veronica's first scene), her direct and directed (Katsumi and Juliette) torture of Seth. GoodKane is the poster child of "not cruel", Dominique is "cruel" Veronica is "more cruel" (because at least the torture for Dominique's victims "quickly" ends), and Alessandra and Juliette are competing for "most cruel".

1. Yes for Luke to be a fetus, this has to have happened before the events of the story. I don't believe anybody was arguing against that. You thought that Alexander who had a deal in place with Callista to let her escape either was lying or changed his mind after she left and caused said accident?
2. I didn't theorize that, you cant just put words in my posts just to fit your theory
3. You literally just posted a screenshot that proves that Alessandra plays the game enough to get people to leave her alone and she works from the shadows. Why wouldn't she do that with her father?

4. Doesnt matter what you think is cruel it matters how veronica and dom see themselves. Neither one of them would refer to themselves as a cruel goddess.

 

[Maviarab]

So in order for your "Luke is a fetus" theory to be correct, with the "not accident" happening after Callista left KG, but before the "Olivia Pact" with Alexander, which itself occurs before Kane's birth, the "not accident" most logically occurred during Callista's pregnancy with Kane, and probably happened in her actual escape attempt, Luke would have to be Kane's lost twin brother. Now, it's certainly possible that Kane has a dead/lost brother, who isn't Seth, as Veronica believes Kane is Callista's only son.

I'm not even reading the rest of it....

Luke was BEFORE she left the Karlsson Group. *throws arms in air*...

Spoiler: Do these look like someone all the same age????

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The Luke scene (for me..just my opinion) was at least 2 years before Callista left with Olivia (three months pregnant with Kane), if not even longer..... This is the pivotel moment where he 'changed''...where he 'lost something very precious to him'....and was 'never the same'...

Remember key conversations with Callista...Veronica...Alessa....his daughters never knew the man he once was....he wasn't always that way. Also keep in mind, Olivia is approx 2 years old when Callista leaves (this is not assumption..this is fact as told by Tess to me). She is a toddler in the Asian temple scene when she gives birth to Kane (tess won't reveal exactly how old), which if we take a 14 week gestation period before being able to identify the sex of Kane...makes that scene approximately 6 months after Callista left.

That means Callista hung around for almost 3 years after finding out Alexander was fucking every other woman with 2 legs and a pair of tits (whether that be part of his Gambit plan or otherwise). Now this also throws up a new question...why? Their relationship was over when she found him with her best friend.

Thank God though you finally accept they are two different scenes though...was about to ask you why the hell Callista would be so damn upset over a helicopter pilot...and/or why she'd be pregnant at 40+ years old...

*shakes head*

Edited for better clarity

 

[arrlubuthi]

wait. You guys are actually following lore??? Just not skipping to good parts?

 

[Don Sucio]

wait. You guys are actually following lore??? Just not skipping to good parts?

Of course, lore is cool hahaha, but i understand you, the first time i played i only cared about sex, then i realized this game hid a lot of information and i started to pay attention to the plot.

 

[Sick Bubblegum]

wait. You guys are actually following lore??? Just not skipping to good parts?

I just look at the pictures and animations of perty girls being mean to wimpy boys. The plot is entirely necessary. Especially unnecessary when my (imaginary)wife, Callista is blowing me, while I whip WilsonAmy. (couch cushions tied to a volley ball., and dressed in white rags)

 

[Maviarab]

wait. You guys are actually following lore??? Just not skipping to good parts?

Don't give up your day job.

 

[Maviarab]

Ehhh...this thread too quiet today so, for all the Goddess fans:

 

[Silver_Crow117]

If I gotta end Zachy to get the Delilah route for sub Kane then I don’t mind… (obviously Delilah already has a sub route for Kane but still…

Spoiler: Spoiler

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[Maviarab]

If I gotta end Zachy to get the Delilah route for sub Kane then I don’t mind… (obviously Delilah already has a sub route for Kane but still…

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Lemme know if you need any help. Being on the verge of rank 10 has it's perks...I have...friends....

 

[Silver_Crow117]

Lemme know if you need any help. Being on the verge of rank 10 has it's perks...I have...friends....

This is between subs… thanks for the offer to assist tho!

 

[YuNobi1]

I'm not even reading the rest of it....

Luke was BEFORE she left the Karlsson Group. *throws arms in air*...

The Luke scene (for me..just my opinion) was at least 2 years before Callista left with Olivia (three months pregnant with Kane), if not even longer..... This is the pivotel moment where he 'changed''...where he 'lost something very precious to him'....and was 'never the same'...

Remember key conversations with Callista...Veronica...Alessa....his daughters never knew the man he once was....he wasn't always that way. Also keep in mind, Olivia is approx 2 years old when Callista leaves (this is not assumption..this is fact as told by Tess to me). She is a toddler in the Asian temple scene when she gives birth to Kane (tess won't reveal exactly how old), which if we take a 14 week gestation period before being able to identify the sex of Kane...makes that scene approximately 6 months after Callista left.

The PREVIEW has failed me...

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[Sharpshooter890]

The PREVIEW has failed me...

Where do you get that Luke dies before Callista left KG? PLEASE show me where in the game that says Luke died so early. Luke is not mentioned by anyone other than Callista, and only in this one scene. Her Pier Farewell and Hospital are either the same age OR she's at least older in the hospital, but this might just be because of the bruises. If your justification is that the flashbacks happen in order, they can't as here is the DEFINITE chronological order: Pier (Ep. 5), Sanctuary (Ep. 7), Park 1 (Ep. 3),* Park 2 (Ep. 6),** SPOILER (Ep. 8), Hike (Ep. 7), Helicopter (Ep. 6)***

*Hospital (Ep. 4) must happen before Park 1, due to Callista's hair change, and I have already given my reasons it happened before Sanctuary.

**In Park 1, Callista cuts Kane's playground time short after talking to Yvette and Veronica, but doesn't know their names. Park 2 Kane is mad at Callista, avoiding her, when he meets Veronica, who calls herself "Stacy", and he never sees Yvette. Kane's lines are also "younger" in Park 1 compared to Park 2.

***Piano (Ep. 6) based on Olivia's face and hair style seems to follow Hike, and likely precedes Helicopter, but possibly shortly after (it's not stated how long Callista's been "dead"). It is also unknown how close Piano is to Hike or Helicopter.


Tess has intentionally kept the timing/cause of Alexander's "implosion" vague, and I would even say fluid.
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Dominique (and apparently Yvette and Elena), apparently feel that Alexander didn't truly break until Cole's "Betrayal" was discovered, which would have been after Callista escaped KG, however Cole claims that he already lost his heart long before that moment.

Veronica's ruminations break her own timeline. She theorizes up to 4 possible breaking points: 1) Losing Callista (either at the breakup, or 2) this could have occurred after her escape as D/Y/E believe, though Veronica appears to disagree with that interpretation), 3) Klara and Karin's successful escape, and 4) before Alexander had even started the project (aka Karlsson Gambit) of impregnating several women, which included Yvette and Elena, but this was before the breakup, discovery, and initial infidelity (we don't know how many times Alexander had sex with Yvett and Elena before he was caught).

If Alexander's insanity began at the Breakup, then Callista is able to tell Grymm that the good man "died" before Grymm was born, so long as Grymm is not Dominique, so no issue. However, Veronica does not believe that even Dominique saw "Good Alexander", and Cole confirms that Dominique never met him, and the only children who don't meet their fathers at birth are those with [temporarily] absent fathers (e.g., deployed military, deadbeats). So either Alexander went bad before Dominique was born, or Alexander had not known of Dominique's birth until after the Breakup. (Since Tess is against incest, then Dominique is definitely not secretly Callista's daughter.)

Callista states that the moment Alexander fell in love (with her) was his sole moment of happiness in his life, yet if we also know that his whole goal in life was to have a child, preferably a son, with Callista, wouldn't the fulfillment of his lifelong dream (Callista conceiving a child, and they confirm his sex) be at least a second moment of happiness, if not trumping the first? Callista also claims that Alexander wasn't able to give up his darkness in order to keep the woman he fell in love with. Since she doesn't say that the darkness began/grew, but instead that he had to give it up after his infatuation, that means Callista sees that the darkness was there from the beginning of their romance. However, hers and Cole's statements about what kind of man "Good Alexander" was suggests Callista had met and known this man, but the darkness came before he fell in love with her. (Alternatively, Callista may have never met the honorable Alexander, and is merely quoting Cole's statements about their mutual early years).

Since Callista and Cole are firsthand witnesses, with Cole claiming that Alexander went bad before Dominique, and Callista indicating he was bad at the start of their love story, then a very early turn to the Dark Side is the only scenario that matches all of their statements, and whatever theories Veronica is able to piece together.


No, I'm saying that Cole's and Callista's plan for Callista's escape wasn't as good as they thought.

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This statement can be made by all the sisters, as they do each enjoy (orgasm) over their evil deeds, but which of the sisters is sefl-reflective enough to be able to make this honest critique?
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Which of the sisters would Callista believe is capable of making the choice her father failed to make, and abandon her darkness for the sake of her ultimate goal?

These are the questions to be asking. Again, based on the rest of the conversation, Grymm offers no information/intel, makes no contribution to Callista's efforts, they also make no mention of an deal/price that Grymm has to pay, instead Callista is providing Grymm insider information, telling her to get close (fuck) her son, advising her on how to "fulfill your father's wishes" (which are the conditions to win the Gambit), her current status in the Gambit, and a strategy for moving forward and upward in this "competition", and here is trying to pull a Luke Skywalker on Grymm. Callista wants a good Grymm, she wants her to win the Gambit, which means that Grymm procreates with Kane. At this point, going strictly on what IS IN THE GAME and not any theory, Callista is more invested in making sure that Grymm wins than...[see spoiler below]... by supplying Grymm the most with insider information.

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Callista is controlling who becomes the mother of her future grandson, and thereby has a vested interest in what type of woman that will be.

For the love of Olivia's perfect butt, please put all that wall of text under a spoiler tag.

 

[kinkyshin]

Slightly off topic but the post got me thinking -- some people on here 100% believe that Grym Gudinna is Alessandra. I've never said this is wrong, but I've never been ready to accept it as a 100% fact.

Re-reading it now though -- she says she's enjoying life too much to be evil. Alessandra also tells Kane (in the SecretSub route I believe) that she's the only Karlsson sister that's actually happy. So maybe it really is her.

Also, as for why Callista would help Alessandra... Alessandra has said several times that she is on Olivia's side (probably a lie, but still).

Maybe it does fit.

Actually just realized something else that could further point to Alessandra being Grym Gudinna. Most likely, not only did she help Nadia get the bracelet to Kane, but she's also helped Nadia get in contact with Cole. And, I'm not sure how Veronica found out about Cole, but I bet Alessandra had something to do with it and the two sisters she's hoping kill each other aren't Dominique and Juliette (Who, rather getting even more hostile with each other actually formed a temporary alliance) but Veronica and Dominique. She was hoping that Veronica would react poorly to Dominique keeping Cole's existence a secret but she's done nothing but kept secret about the fact that she knows.