VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[PickerLewd]

Finally someone with some sense around here

It was my idea to talk about asses to change the subject of the thread, but it didn't last long .

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

This. Benefiting yourself is not screwing over Zach. And you specifically mentioned Zach. As did I. Remember who you're discussing this with

Giving the food away helps literally no one except Jake (if take Jakes option). Even a concious good guy Kane would not intentionally fuck himself over. Sorry, but that is definitely not protrayed in his character ever, anywhere...except towards his friends.

So sorry Miles, you're wrong on this one. You're intentionally making stupid choices to try and a prove a point I already proved does not exist. Remember, it was you who stated, you have to screw Zach over to not hit K4. This is plain wrong. As SS also stated above, you can take Pat's deal (because in all that is holy in God's name, why would anyone NOT do that in that situation, even if you're a straight up AAA guy...), and still then not do what she wants. As I explicitly stated, you can take the second option for 1 slave point instead of the top choice in the ball test and you can fail to signal Pat about Zach 'breaking' for no cost to yourself and at no cost to Zach either. In that scene, you cannot help Zach...at all...only not fuck him over (which is why doing so gives evil points).

I'll say it again, there is only one choice where you actually, specifically...'help' him...and it gives +1 slave point. Helping yourself at times is not hindering anyone else. You seem to believe it is when the VN does not purport that view. One could argue....the only 'logical' choice for a good guy Kane is giving Jake the food, especially if it's your first time through the game. Even doing this will not put you on the sub path.

So, iirc, you can help him, give jake the food and then take the second choice in the ball test...and still not hit K4 and be a good conscionable guy in the process, as (I agree) is Kane's general nature however, I think again, you're leaning into something that does not exist to try and prove your point. Many of my friends/people who have met me would consiuder me a 'good guy' who helps people out (especially my damn neighbours). Complete strangers? Sorry, but like I would guesstimate at over 90% of the population, why should I give a crap about them, people I don't know, won't meet and in a prison siutation, becomes a them or me situation?

You don't owe them anything and prison? One of the first rules, keep your head down, don't get involved...called self-preservation. You're giving Kane far too much creedance and credit there I'm afraid. Liken it to politics Miles, I don't give a fuck about the rest of the country when I vote, only what will benefit me and those close to me.

Cold and black hearted maybe? Well I am the Dark Lord of the Schwartz....I really don't see (personally) even a good guy Kane being much different to be honest, especially given the context of the world he has grown up in. Sure, help those less fortunate, sure feel bad for them, but (and we're in prison remember...screwed over ourselves)....

When push comes to shove...even a good guy will not intentionally throw themselves under the bus. So again, to sum up, yes, you can be nice to Zach, help him, not screw him over and still look out for yourself and not hit the sub path.

(Edits formatting and grammar).

I also said "or ignore what's happening to him." Taking Pat's deal would require you to ignore what's happening to him.
If Zach can run better, the implication would be he's one of the 20 getting food.
Honestly, we can argue what actions benefit Zach and what don't. But ultimately, K4 comes down to how much Zach likes him. So, to avoid the hangup on that issue, let's just say the difference between K4 and K6 comes down to how evil you're willing to be at that point.
How dominant or submissive Kane is doesn't really matter.

 

[Maviarab]

She didn't raise him to let someone like Zach be bullied, and if Kane doesn't do that, he's doomed to K4

Your original quote....

aking Pat's deal would require you to ignore what's happening to him.

Now you're moving the goalposts slightly....how are you ignoring what's happening to him?

How dominant or submissive Kane is doesn't really matter.

I never once mentioned sub or dom because it does not affect you're ranking all that much compared to the slave points. The two are not terribly tied together. You cannot stop Zach being bullied, except in one situation which does not affect you in the slightest (point wise) and does actually help Zach.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

True, but you can't avoid K4 without trying to help or ignoring what happens to Zach. Both of which would be counter to how Kane was raised.

You quoted the above statement of mines, "Without trying to help or ignoring what happens to Zach." One condition of Pat's deal is that you're not allowed to help the others. In other words, you're ignoring what Pat is doing to the other participants.

As for the food question, we cannot confirm where it goes without Tess. Id argue that based upon future choices, Zach is one of the twenty, I'm assuming you're arguing it doesn't? Depending on where the food goes, we're either screwing over Zach or ensuring that we stay strong.

I never once mentioned sub or dom because it does not affect you're ranking all that much compared to the slave points. The two are not terribly tied together. You cannot stop Zach being bullied, except in one situation which does not affect you in the slightest (point wise) and does actually help Zach.

No you didn't, but my point with the original Zach statement was that how dominant or submissive Kane was did not come into the equation of whether or not Kane was a four or a 6. Being dominant or submissive was merely a sexual kink. That Kane was ill-prepared for a game that his mom had over a decade to prepare him for.

 

[Silver_Crow117]

Maviarab Tbh I’m looking forward towards the future where we now have the option for Zach to survive past the gameshow, which initially wasn’t the case! Furthermore, specifically on the sub side, we’ll be able to help/or not Jake and Zach in the course of the game… Tho characters like Juliette and probably others will try and make deals with Kane to get Jake and Zach in lower ranks… also killing Kyle in order to get Juliette’s favorite slave Route..

Spoiler: Tess

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I actually picked for my k4 route Kane to go down to k2 but help Zach and Jake, so I chose Zach to drink Scarlett’s piss +2 Dexterity, Jake drinks Delilah… cuz why not it doesn’t do anything lmao (Jake didn’t get farted on which lowers Dex -1) but my Kane drinker Chanel’s piss (-2 Dex) So that Zach doesn’t get punished in this scene (which Miss Tess has said if you fail games you’ll get punished, which would affect SGame and Dex/stre points)

Spoiler: Zach needs to be saved

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Imma have either Jake lost first to Celeste’s small ass or my character instead of poor Zach (avoids Chanel beating him up!! Hahaha

 

[Sharpshooter890]

Let's do a simple thought experiment and remove Kane from the equasion altogether. What would change as the outcome of the initial evaluation? Nothing. Jake and Zach would still be on the K4 path (Zach probably close to failing the test, while Jake almost reaching K5) and would eventually end up as fodder for Jules or something.

 

[Silver_Crow117]

Let's do a simple thought experiment and remove Kane from the equasion altogether. What would change as the outcome of the initial evaluation? Nothing. Jake and Zach would still be on the K4 path (Zach probably close to failing the test, while Jake almost reaching K5) and would eventually end up as fodder for Jules or something.

Jake wouldn’t be in this Mess in the first place… he’s in the situation he’s in now because of Kane LMAO (was mentioned in part one of episode 8 by Scarlett in the sub path I think..)

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Jake wouldn’t be in this Mess in the first place… he’s in the situation he’s in now because of Kane LMAO

The real question is who would Olivia have to use for that vibrating tongue thing that the doctor offered to do for Olivia? :O

 

[Silver_Crow117]

The real question is who would Olivia have to use for that vibrating tongue thing that the doctor offered to do for Olivia? :O

Well… it’s kinda interesting if you think about it because both versions of Olivia, Demoness and Good have that option of Choosing either Jake and Kane… and it’s brought up a second time for Olivia to go with the plans for Kane having an enhanced tongue or not… with Jake they do it regardless heh but without those two, it’s kinda hard to imagine but I would bet money on Zach… yes he has an s tier tongue (the only thing that he has goin tbh hahaha) but it would be even better with it enhanced…

The SSS Tier Enhanced Tongue slave… ZACH

 

[Maviarab]

You quoted the above statement of mines, "Without trying to help or ignoring what happens to Zach." One condition of Pat's deal is that you're not allowed to help the others. In other words, you're ignoring what Pat is doing to the other participants.

As for the food question, we cannot confirm where it goes without Tess. Id argue that based upon future choices, Zach is one of the twenty, I'm assuming you're arguing it doesn't? Depending on where the food goes, we're either screwing over Zach or ensuring that we stay strong.




No you didn't, but my point with the original Zach statement was that how dominant or submissive Kane was did not come into the equation of whether or not Kane was a four or a 6. Being dominant or submissive was merely a sexual kink. That Kane was ill-prepared for a game that his mom had over a decade to prepare him for.

Sighs....

Tbh I’m looking forward towards the future where we now have the option for Zach to survive past the gameshow,

You are? Weirdo...

Zach needs to be saved!

Mmmm...no...no...he doesn't. Sometimes, despite anything else, people need to start saving themselves as they cannot be helped, no matter how you try or what you do and in most cases, trying will just screw you over in the process. Zach is a lost case, always has been, always will be, even if you're a SubKane and help him.

Jake wouldn’t be in this Mess in the first place… he’s in the situation he’s in now because of Kane LMAO (was mentioned in part one of episode 8 by Scarlett in the sub path I think..)

Don't recall that specific dialogue, though will always bow down to any sub specific dialogue to you. Posting code for that would be useful, save me having to try and find it. What is quite explicitly stated is that Jake had the goods, failed to turn off the tracker and notice the red flashing signal....that had nothing at all to do with Kane....that's Jake being a dumbass (even if he was set up, but Kane can't be blamed for that really can he. May as well blame Olivia at that point instead).

 

[Silver_Crow117]

You are? Weirdo...

Mmmm...no...no...he doesn't. Sometimes, despite anything else, people need to start saving themselves as they cannot be helped, no matter how you try or what you do and in most cases, trying will just screw you over in the process. Zach is a lost case, always has been, always will be, even if you're a SubKane and help him.

Don't recall that specific dialogue, though will always bow down to any sub specific dialogue to you. Posting code for that would be useful, save me having to try and find it. What is quite explicitly stated is that Jake had the goods, failed to turn off the tracker and notice the red flashing signal....that had nothing at all to do with Kane....that's Jake being a dumbass (even if he was set up, but Kane can't be blamed for that really can he. May as well blame Olivia at that point instead).

I’m not weird!! I’m just a good person…in that save… heh.. It doesn’t matter if he’s ultimately a screw up! There’s a reason/chance for Miss Tess letting us able to save Zach! Plus.. he’s definitely not the type to turn his back on someone!!.. also Miss Tess was thinking about all three, Jake,Kane and Zach escaping everything entirely… but yeah just because he’s a good for nothing, always looking for help from others individual, doesn’t mean I’ll stop helping him, it’s the right thing to do… it’s naive but hey, imma do it in one of my playthroughs anyways He was brought up in a rough life (being in the Karlsson Academy for god knows how long…) it’s the only thing he’s known, conditioned for… at least I can help him in one of my saves… he deserves it!

and thanks for bowing down to me Mav, just one step closer for you becoming submissive… Hahaha but seriously with Jake, he was blamed by the Karlssons faction because he was Intwined with Kane.. Yes he was Hitting on Olivia, but he most likely met Olivia through Kane.. Plus Characters have mentions Jake’s in the program because of Kane… I’ll try and find the dialogue when I can tho! Just busy atm

 

[Sharpshooter890]

He was brought up in a rough life (being in the Karlsson Academy for god knows how long…) it’s the only thing he’s known, conditioned for… at least I can help him in one of my saves… he deserves it!

Isn't he related to Claudia and Celeste? That would mean he grew up with a silver golden spoon up his ass, not wanting for anything. You know what, I feel even less sympathy for that sad excuse of a human, if you can even call him that. Fuck him, spoiled little bitch got exactly what he deserved.

All power to the Soviets!

 

[MagicMan753]

Isn't he related to Claudia and Celeste? That would mean he grew up with a silver golden spoon up his ass, not wanting for anything. You know what, I feel even less sympathy for that sad excuse of a human, if you can even call him that. Fuck him, spoiled little bitch got exactly what he deserved.

All power to the Soviets!

He is not related to them, he was just in the academy with them, where Celeste and friends made his life hell.

Also it would be full incest if they were related with what they have been doing with Zach, and Tess won't do actual incest. The only type of incest will be Olivia, where they will still be saying brother and sister probably a little, but they aren't actually related by blood.

 

[Silver_Crow117]

Found one of the mentions in part 1… Also, There’s some discussion of Zach being Harry’s Son but nothing is confirmed…

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

yea Zach and Delilah's parental sitch throw me off. Incest pretty much eliminates the obvious answer for both of them yet there's little to no hints on that front from anything else in the game

 

[Maviarab]

Isn't he related to Claudia and Celeste? That would mean he grew up with a silver golden spoon up his ass, not wanting for anything. You know what, I feel even less sympathy for that sad excuse of a human, if you can even call him that. Fuck him, spoiled little bitch got exactly what he deserved.

All power to the Soviets!

Correct. Not confirmed (why grey in my character sheet) if he is Harry's or his brothers son. But he is related yes.

Found one of the mentions in part 1… Also, There’s some discussion of Zach being Harry’s Son but nothing is confirmed… View attachment 4307562

Yeah I recall now but again, as said previously, may as well blame Olivia for it. Hell...in fact blame may as well just blame Callista for it, if she never left the Karlsson group and Alexander, Kane would never have met Jake in the first place would he? Hahahaha...I'm being pedantic I know..and yes, in reality, Jake is there by association...but we can hardly blame Kane for it can we.

(plus..one cana argue, much like Zach....Jake only has himself to blame for being in his current position. Took the same test as Kane, his dumb ass attitude and incompetence keeps him as a sub.

(and yes, I will also have saves as Dom and Sub where keep both of the useless idiots alive...just to see how the story plays out. They both going down in pretty much every other run though hahahaha).

 

[Silver_Crow117]

Correct. Not confirmed (why grey in my character sheet) if he is Harry's or his brothers son. But he is related yes.

Yeah I recall now but again, as said previously, may as well blame Olivia for it. Hell...in fact blame may as well just blame Callista for it, if she never left the Karlsson group and Alexander, Kane would never have met Jake in the first place would he? Hahahaha...I'm being pedantic I know..and yes, in reality, Jake is there by association...but we can hardly blame Kane for it can we.

(plus..one cana argue, much like Zach....Jake only has himself to blame for being in his current position. Took the same test as Kane, his dumb ass attitude and incompetence keeps him as a sub.

(and yes, I will also have saves as Dom and Sub where keep both of the useless idiots alive...just to see how the story plays out. They both going down in pretty much every other run though hahahaha).

Yeah its pretty much sums up to a bunch of “What Ifs” at the point of who’s to blame when it comes to why Jake is in there…

I will agree that it’s mostly their fault on where there at right now, more on Jake’s side because he hasn’t been as traumatized as much as Zach to an extent of the situation their in… They’re both in K3 I believe so.. it will be interesting to see all the branching within Kanes pod during the gameshow.. Especially with Juliette wanting Jake and Zach dead or at k1 by the end of it to earn sub Kane the lvl of k5+ (And be her personal favorite slave), probably other characters wanting to make deals with only Kane, Kane being good or evil, and then Kane himself being a friend of Jake or not…

AND AT LEAST YOUR SAVING THEM IN ONE PLAYTHROUGH!

 

[Stan5851]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one.

As for who's pervert and who's not - I prefer not to judge other people's kinks. Whatever rocks you boat, as long as it's kept private and doesn't hurt others.

Spoiler

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[Maviarab]

Spoiler

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To go way off-topic to the current conversation...while it's in my head and your post chain-reactioned my thoughts....

I think you hit the nail on the head with saying crawling around on the floor. I was actually thinking about this earlier (because yes, the plot and mysteries of KG really do occupy my mind at times hehe, especially when having a coffee and a cig in my garage...my meditation and thinking time in a way).

The old Dom/Sub debate...is it really when we break things down? Again, we both have a very clear and defined image of our Kane which often conflict with others views. Now, is Kane submissive? In my opinion, based on everything we actually see, no he isn't. Not even on the sub path. Now I can see Silver's temples bulging thinking wtf is Mavi on about now lol. Let me break it down:

DomKane isn't dominant in the slightest really, a coupkle of flashes from EP7 onwards in a couple of lewd scenes. Sure, at times he may not take any flak and stick up for himself when he thinks he can...but to me, that's just normal behaviour (if you're not....I'll come back to this in a moment). Throughout the VN, the 'dom' choices are not really dominant...more how to say, assertive would perhaps be the right word. Now, SubKane...is he really submissive? Does he (not the player...Kane) actually enjoy what is happening to him? Sorry folks, but the answer to that question is a resounding no. Why? Because nothing is consensual, he's a slave, he has no choice in the matter. He is treated like literal utter garbage. Submissive 'by nature'? Perhaps...however....

Would a 'submissve by nature' person get into a fight to defend their brother? In my experience, the answer to that is also a resounding no. What did Kane do? He put the guy on his ass. Well done Kane, being assertive, dominant, taking control of a situation. That to me is proof alone of Kane's true 'nature' and what we see of him in flashbacks. He is not some trembling natural submissive not wanting to get involved and just letting shit happen around and to him.

To backtrack though, Dom/Sub...femdom...none of it actually...really exists when you truly think about what happens and what we see. DomKane is not really dominant, neither in nature or sexually (though as said, there's hints of it appearing). SubKane is not submissive at all for me, everything is forced on him and from what I can recall, there are no ocassions where he is liking, enjoying or getting any pleasure from the attrocious behaviour he is subjected to. So, does SubKane actually exist? Is there really any femdom, as like with D/s...femdom requires a lot of trust and more importantly, be willing subjected to whatever your Mistress/Master wants of you...

To me, there is only one true 'SubKane'....and that's the SecretSub route Kane.

Nothing on the actual sub route really constitutes femdom in my mind...and nothing is consensual. Now, if one is a slave, no voice, no opinion...can it then even be called femdom? Plenty of sadism abound for sure, but....

________
Now I'm sure that puts me into the catagory of being a...what was it again...oh yes...a conceited know it all...oh well *shrugs*

 

[Silver_Crow117]

That’s cool and all dom players but..

Spoiler: Mouthful

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Sam’s ass is growing on me