VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Stan5851]

To go way off-topic to the current conversation...while it's in my head and your post chain-reactioned my thoughts....

I think you hit the nail on the head with saying crawling around on the floor. I was actually thinking about this earlier (because yes, the plot and mysteries of KG really do occupy my mind at times hehe, especially when having a coffee and a cig in my garage...my meditation and thinking time in a way).

The old Dom/Sub debate...is it really when we break things down? Again, we both have a very clear and defined image of our Kane which often conflict with others views. Now, is Kane submissive? In my opinion, based on everything we actually see, no he isn't. Not even on the sub path. Now I can see Silver's temples bulging thinking wtf is Mavi on about now lol. Let me break it down:

DomKane isn't dominant in the slightest really, a coupkle of flashes from EP7 onwards in a couple of lewd scenes. Sure, at times he may not take any flak and stick up for himself when he thinks he can...but to me, that's just normal behaviour (if you're not....I'll come back to this in a moment). Throughout the VN, the 'dom' choices are not really dominant...more how to say, assertive would perhaps be the right word. Now, SubKane...is he really submissive? Does he (not the player...Kane) actually enjoy what is happening to him? Sorry folks, but the answer to that question is a resounding no. Why? Because nothing is consensual, he's a slave, he has no choice in the matter. He is treated like literal utter garbage. Submissive 'by nature'? Perhaps...however....

Would a 'submissve by nature' person get into a fight to defend their brother? In my experience, the answer to that is also a resounding no. What did Kane do? He put the guy on his ass. Well done Kane, being assertive, dominant, taking control of a situation. That to me is proof alone of Kane's true 'nature' and what we see of him in flashbacks. He is not some trembling natural submissive not wanting to get involved and just letting shit happen around and to him.

To backtrack though, Dom/Sub...femdom...none of it actually...really exists when you truly think about what happens and what we see. DomKane is not really dominant, neither in nature or sexually (though as said, there's hints of it appearing). SubKane is not submissive at all for me, everything is forced on him and from what I can recall, there are no ocassions where he is liking, enjoying or getting any pleasure from the attrocious behaviour he is subjected to. So, does SubKane actually exist? Is there really any femdom, as like with D/s...femdom requires a lot of trust and more importantly, be willing subjected to whatever your Mistress/Master wants of you...

To me, there is only one true 'SubKane'....and that's the SecretSub route Kane.

Nothing on the actual sub route really constitutes femdom in my mind...and nothing is consensual. Now, if one is a slave, no voice, no opinion...can it then even be called femdom? Plenty of sadism abound for sure, but....

________
Now I'm sure that puts me into the catagory of being a...what was it again...oh yes...a conceited know it all...oh well *shrugs*

I have to admit, I'm impressed by your post. But let's take it one step at a time. That Kane's dominance (except for some of the scenes you mentioned) isn't pure dominance and he looks like a confident and assertive partner so far, I agree, we discussed this long ago and came to a consensus...And we'll see more pronounced dominance as Kane continues to gain momentum. There's no objection to Kane's true identity, that's my position too.

But what you wrote about femdom in this game, I have to admit, surprised me a lot. I mean, as a person who plays the Dom route, I naively thought that the sub route should a priori assume that the Kane character (not the player) must like everything that happens to him, otherwise what's the point of it all? Plus, the character KaneDom likes all the sexual experiences he gets on his route, so why should it be any different for KaneSub?

But from what you say, it appears that sub Kane is having it all forced on him and what's more, he doesn't even like it! You're right, then it doesn't sound like femdom at all, where as in any power exchange roleplay there has to be trust between the participants, not to mention the basic principle of consensual and safety. Well, then it's even sadder than I thought.

 

[Stan5851]

That’s cool and all dom players but..

Spoiler: Mouthful

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Sam’s ass is growing on me

When you have nothing substantive to argue, you post a random picture. Silver, it doesn't work that way.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

OK if Zach isn't getting banged by celeste and or claudia in sub why were people implying incest?

Back to my original theory that he's the son and claudia is likely putting him in the program to remove him thus removing the last remaining male heir or something like that.

(plus..one can argue, much like Zach....Jake only has himself to blame for being in his current position. Took the same test as Kane, his dumb ass attitude and incompetence keeps him as a sub.

Id argue neither Zach nor Jake are to blame for their current positions. Jake was framed and offered a way out in a game where there's a small chance of advancement ( there's a 5 percent advancement rate for this group if Kane makes k6), Zach is in trouble for the crimes of his father (or uncle if that's the theory). I doubt either could've done anything different. I won't put Jake on Kane but the Karlsson corp is def fucked up.

It does make one wonder how Alexander managed to stay on top in a company with so many female shark executives who hated him. Because every other male in power in this game is either overthrown or dead.

 

[MagicMan753]

It is real tiring watching all these dom players trying to push dom kane as canon and saying sub kane isn't his personality...so on and so on.

It is ok to have your preference, it is ok to have your opinions, but when you try to say something like Kane only has one true sub path, he is assertive by nature, etc. It is dumb and you need to stop trying to push something as a canon path or canon Kane, when both are canon both are his personalities, otherwise Tess wouldn't of created two paths.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, you dom players can try to respond and talk about whatever you want, but if you are that closed minded, you aren't worth my time.

 

[PickerLewd]

Does he (not the player...Kane) actually enjoy what is happening to him? Sorry folks, but the answer to that question is a resounding no. Why? Because nothing is consensual, he's a slave, he has no choice in the matter. He is treated like literal utter garbage.

What? and I suspected as much, but I thought ......

knock-knock-knock-knock Oh! somebody knocking on the door.



EVERYTHING is acted and consensual in a super production, hahaha similar to "Photo Hunt", for a moment I almost fell for it.

Hey! Someone calls me, I come right back.

sound of footsteps running out.

 

[Stan5851]

What? and I suspected as much, but I thought ......

knock-knock-knock-knock Oh! somebody knocking on the door.

View attachment 4309823

EVERYTHING is acted and consensual in a super production, hahaha similar to "Photo Hunt", for a moment I almost fell for it.

Hey! Someone calls me, I come right back.

sound of footsteps running out.

What's this all about, PickerLewd ? We're not talking about formally agreeing to something just so Patreon can't pick on the game, we're talking about the gameplay itself. And yes, if anything, I have no problem even with games that are banned on Patreon that have non-consensual sex in them...

But answer me this: if Maviarab is right (and he is) and KaneSub (the character, not the player) doesn't like being treated like worthless garbage and as a slave without a voice and opinion, then what's the point of calling it sub/femdom, which, like any form of BDSM, implies certain obligations of the participants to each other? Well then, let's be honest and call the "sub route" the "slavery route", wouldn't that be more correct?

 

[Silver_Crow117]

When you have nothing substantive to argue, you post a random picture. Silver, it doesn't work that way.

I’m not arguing for anything… I’m joking around…
Chill
Your not changing my mind and I’m not changing yours I’m not gonna do this back and forth about what’s canon, what’s sub/dom means, it’s just an echo chambered argument at this point…

 

[Silver_Crow117]

It is real tiring watching all these dom players trying to push dom kane as canon and saying sub kane isn't his personality...so on and so on.

It is ok to have your preference, it is ok to have your opinions, but when you try to say something like Kane only has one true sub path, he is assertive by nature, etc. It is dumb and you need to stop trying to push something as a canon path or canon Kane, when both are canon both are his personalities, otherwise Tess wouldn't of created two paths.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, you dom players can try to respond and talk about whatever you want, but if you are that colsed minded, you aren't worth my time.

Facts man, Facts

 

[PickerLewd]

Well then, let's be honest and call the "sub route" the "slavery route", wouldn't that be more correct?

That's correct, but technically Kane is still a slave as long as he's classified K, regardless of which path he takes.

 

[d5aqoep]

It seems like people here are going to complete the story before actual release

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

yea all sub and dom is , is basically the players sexual kink. Its just connected to negative activities in the game which is why people see it as negative.

But yea sub or dom should have no effect on canon

 

[Silver_Crow117]

yea all sub and dom is , comes down to the players sexual kink. Its just connected to negative activities in the game which is why people see it as negative.

Honestly at this point, I hope everyone enjoys this game to their fullest, bout to catch some Zzzs but hopefully we can return to fruitful discussions that don’t involve bashing one side or the other

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Honestly at this point, I hope everyone enjoys this game to their fullest, bout to catch some Zzzs but hopefully we can return to fruitful discussions that don’t involve bashing one side or the other

Indeed, it's probably my fault for going in on the Callista business, so I shall put such attacks on pause until at least the next update so we can get back to speculation. This way, Dom and sub players can work together to get the entire story.

 

[Sharpshooter890]

It seems like people here are going to complete the story before actual release

Never underestimate the power of internet autism.

 

[Stan5851]

That's correct, but technically Kane is still a slave as long as he's classified K, regardless of which path he takes.

Yeah, the only difference is that on the Dom route it is exactly "technically", and in fact it is pure formality (we drive Bugatti Veyron, live in luxurious apartments, have personal slave girls, sexual female assistants and have fucked all the Karlsson sisters, not to mention a significant part of the JoyFacility staff. Whereas in the case of the sub route it is like a true slavery where no one asks the slave's opinion and sadistic bitches abuse and humiliate them as they please.

But yea sub or dom should have no effect on canon

Tess realized what a minefield she was stepping into, so like a smart person, decided to make two different canon endings (In addition to the "usual" 15 endings) - one for the Dom route and one for the Sub.

 

[Maviarab]

Mistress Tess — Today at 10:01

Just doing little updates here at times -- Two people have successfully tested the entire sub path and given me their list of little things. They are not sub players at all so their advice is much more about basic flow, renders, dialogue, etc. As I tweak those, I will be shifting to what I consider "true" sub players to look at it next (maybe 2-3 people) so I am kind of about 90 percent done with major editing on this side. The dom path content is almost done, I am working on the very last scene and will start editing there when done. On the sub side -- for over 2,100 images it's about 100 renders to correct which is near my typical (5%) or so. Music is not there yet, and not a priority yet until I catch the dom path up to a similar state. (this is the last thing I add for final testing to get vibe checks, etc.)

The process for editing is typically for me --> 1) look for major dialogue and render errors on a first pass (just really obvious at first glance 2) fix/tweak those as I can 3) heavy testing of branches and flags and that they are all working (this is more time consuming as I have to basically use a console shift command to track variables as I go and see if they add/subtract create flags, etc. 4) play test multiple saves from prior update and see if they seem to work well and checking dialogue/renders again 5) let a few others test at this point 6) I go back and re-test with all changes and play as much as possible 7) start adding music last) extras like titles/outros (usually done after Test Version)

It is likely I will not put in 1 scene for the sub path and 1-2 scenes for the dom path in the initial Test Version. It will depend on time (last update I only had I think 1 scene from each side out) but mostly I want to get a lot of feedback from other stuff to ponder how I want to tweak these scenes since they are usually the last ones and important to me. But we'll see.

I anticipate sometime this week I will announce (middle of next week technically) I am done with the dom path content rough draft and I will likely be almost done with sub editing entirely near the same time. That will leave heavy dom path editing left. So hopefully I can in the near future announce an estimated release date for the Test Version 0.8.2

 

[Silver_Crow117]

Mistress Tess — Today at 10:01

Just doing little updates here at times -- Two people have successfully tested the entire sub path and given me their list of little things. They are not sub players at all so their advice is much more about basic flow, renders, dialogue, etc. As I tweak those, I will be shifting to what I consider "true" sub players to look at it next (maybe 2-3 people) so I am kind of about 90 percent done with major editing on this side. The dom path content is almost done, I am working on the very last scene and will start editing there when done. On the sub side -- for over 2,100 images it's about 100 renders to correct which is near my typical (5%) or so. Music is not there yet, and not a priority yet until I catch the dom path up to a similar state. (this is the last thing I add for final testing to get vibe checks, etc.)

The process for editing is typically for me --> 1) look for major dialogue and render errors on a first pass (just really obvious at first glance 2) fix/tweak those as I can 3) heavy testing of branches and flags and that they are all working (this is more time consuming as I have to basically use a console shift command to track variables as I go and see if they add/subtract create flags, etc. 4) play test multiple saves from prior update and see if they seem to work well and checking dialogue/renders again 5) let a few others test at this point 6) I go back and re-test with all changes and play as much as possible 7) start adding music last) extras like titles/outros (usually done after Test Version)

It is likely I will not put in 1 scene for the sub path and 1-2 scenes for the dom path in the initial Test Version. It will depend on time (last update I only had I think 1 scene from each side out) but mostly I want to get a lot of feedback from other stuff to ponder how I want to tweak these scenes since they are usually the last ones and important to me. But we'll see.

I anticipate sometime this week I will announce (middle of next week technically) I am done with the dom path content rough draft and I will likely be almost done with sub editing entirely near the same time. That will leave heavy dom path editing left. So hopefully I can in the near future announce an estimated release date for the Test Version 0.8.2

Thank you for the beautiful update Mav for that, he’s this

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[Maviarab]

That’s cool and all dom players but..

Spoiler: Mouthful

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Sam’s ass is growing on me

Sam's ass is a work of ass...I mean art I've always loved Sam from her first appearance. Crazy as hell...absolute sadistic lunatic...but I still love her. That train scene with Scarlet...damn....was long awaited! All I need to die happy now is a Sam/Pat threesome with them both begging...ugghh...*shudders*

That's correct, but technically Kane is still a slave as long as he's classified K, regardless of which path he takes.

Correct.

Yeah, the only difference is that on the Dom route it is exactly "technically", and in fact it is pure formality (we drive Bugatti Veyron, live in luxurious apartments, have personal slave girls, sexual female assistants and have fucked all the Karlsson sisters, not to mention a significant part of the JoyFacility staff. Whereas in the case of the sub route it is like a true slavery where no one asks the slave's opinion and sadistic bitches abuse and humiliate them as they please.

Good point for sure.

(Apologies for double post)

 

[Stan5851]

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As I tweak those, I will be shifting to what I consider "true" sub players to look at it next (maybe 2-3 people) so I am kind of about 90 percent done with major editing on this side.

Something tells me it's already happening and we definitely know the name of one of these mysterious "true" sub player... who has managed to grace us with new renders from pt2 lately.

 

[Maviarab]

Something tells me it's already happening and we definitely know the name of one of these mysterious "true" sub player... who has managed to grace us with new renders from pt2 lately.
View attachment 4310812

Certainly possible aye....certainly possible...I'm sure he couldn't possibly comment though