VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.31 FinalA2] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[harsha_26]

The current economy in KG seems to be based on slave work (which usually isn't very productive compared to our modern production methods using specialists, machines, computers, etc) ... if you free the slaves, there will likely be chaos and the company (without workers) will be destroyed, so no more wealth for the Karlssons and no Z-ranks ...

You would need to transform the economy back to our free mass market society, pay slaves a good salary and then remove the chips ...

A huge problem in the world building of KG is that our current economy is a global economy with 8 billion people living on earth while the isolated South African region in KG likely only has a few dozen million people, most living in slavery or poverty. There seems to be no real consumer market for mass production besides the few wealthy families ruling the 3 regions ... (reminds me a bit of North Korean economy).

Yeah, that's why slavery will be removed but in gradual stages. According to Yvette's plan. And she have two powerful daughters with her to advise her on managing crisis.

 

[harsha_26]

Playing the k4-sub-route I found an event where Dominique whips Kane and confesses :

d "[pname]...I want you to understand that someone like me can do this...just because you're nothing. Your entire purpose for someone like me is entertainment and enjoyment."
d "So be a good boy and just take it while I let off some steam. No game...no long term impact...I just wanted a hunk of meat to hit..."
d "You should feel lucky that I'm not going to use a truly nasty whip. I have some that tear flesh apart with just a few lashes."
d "But this one should do the job. Do you know that I'm probably the most skilled whipper out of anyone?"
d "After all, I've had so much practice. I know the exact number I've whipped too...all the screams...the begging...and especially my body shuddering with pleasure..."
d "You don't need to know the number, but it's...thousands. I have a vast collection of videos too...my trophies for wonderful masturbation material...so so many..."

-> "thousands" indicates that it is going on for years and that her behaviour is not related to any current events in the game ...

Spoiler

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Does it mean, she letting miners die and the thing with amara happens off screen even if we are not in evil domi path?

WTF? For godsake, just go to discord and ask Tess directly. Your lines giving me chills that there is so much in this game and I'm playing ignorant.

More and more reasons why evil Dom is the right path for me. These sisters doesn't deserve any kind of softness.

 

[Sick Bubblegum]

Nah, it sparked some great discussion when you initially posted it.

A few weeks later the conversation resurfaced and I made a single harmless post that somehow immediately led to this guy developing some sort of bizarre grudge against me. I'm just as surprised by this as you likely are.

I don't hold a grudge against you, but I'll refrain from stating my opinion of your efforts at dissecting fictional plot points.
The "bizarre grudge" resides only in your head.
By the way your links to past post don't correspond with your claims.
I guess pointing out other people's faults and making false/misleading claims, while minimizing your own, is your way of coping.
That's all I'm saying on the matter.

Pipip toodle-oo!!

 

[Stan5851]

Even If I believe I kissed Tess Ass, that was much before I played the whole game and dont know how she treat other men in the server. I don't know there is a big history attached to her banning.

I thought she is like any other dev and worthy of requesting her to re-join because I thought may have genuinely done something wrong. She doesn't agreed, then I argued with her to see my point. Then she said, it hurts sub players comments. So, I said, I won't call Karlsson's sisters as "bitches".

You see guys, Tess banned me because I called some characters in game as bitches. Because, the daily ass lickers of Tess (sorry for saying this) have got hurt. I don't want to reveal all this, but if requesting dev equals to begging, Then what you call of some players who are ready to buy Tess's drop of bath water for any cost she choose and always call her as "mistress"? I didn't called her mistress not even once.

It’s funny, it turns out that she banned you just because you told the truth and called a spade a spade. Some of them are bitches (except for you-know-who, lol). I wonder how calling the Karlsson sisters "bitches" could possibly hurt the sensitive snowflakes on her server? Will seeing such harsh names for their goddesses make their tongues slower at kissing Tess’s ass or something?

Anyway, this is some kind of nonsense, and someone is slowly going senile. When Tess was only active in this thread, she was definitely much more level-headed. As I said before, her ass-kissing subs are having a really bad influence on her.

 

[Stan5851]

Does it mean, she letting miners die and the thing with amara happens off screen even if we are not in evil domi path?

Yeah, I also read this for the first time, since I don’t follow the sub route. Well, everything is even worse than I imagined. I don't know about the miners, but regarding Amara, yes, as far as I can judge from my dom saves, Dominique’s fun with her continues off-screen in any case, regardless of whether you pushed her to be more selfish or not.

More and more reasons why evil Dom is the right path for me. These sisters doesn't deserve any kind of softness.

From the Dom perspective, I like Dominique in any form (good or evil)...But I can understand your feelings.

In general, sometimes it’s better not to know what a particular character is doing on the sub route, heh...coz otherwise, considering the totality of their actions, it would be easier to just shoot them all, since you won’t get any remorse from them anyway.

Only Elena repented during her redemption arc, but repentance alone is not enough—one must earn forgiveness and atone for their sins. However, those who live “to the fullest,” like Jules, Domi or Alessa, definitely have no intention of repenting. And although someone mentioned a certain path of redemption for Dominique, it’s still unclear how effective it will be for her.

 

[harsha_26]

Yeah, I also read this for the first time, since I don’t follow the sub route. Well, everything is even worse than I imagined. I don't know about the miners, but regarding Amara, yes, as far as I can judge from my dom saves, Dominique’s fun with her continues off-screen in any case, regardless of whether you pushed her to be more selfish or not.

From the Dom perspective, I like Dominique in any form (good or evil)...But I can understand your feelings.

In general, sometimes it’s better not to know what a particular character is doing on the sub route, heh...coz otherwise, considering the totality of their actions, it would be easier to just shoot them all, since you won’t get any remorse from them anyway.

Only Elena repented during her redemption arc, but repentance alone is not enough—one must earn forgiveness and atone for their sins. However, those who live “to the fullest,” like Jules, Domi or Alessa, definitely have no intention of repenting. And although someone mentioned a certain path of redemption for Dominique, it’s still unclear how effective it will be for her.

I think Dominique can be redempted through Cole and Alesandra by "Gambit Queen".

But, If evil Dom is active, your parents won't join you in your faction and thus, less chances for these redemption paths lol.

 

[f96zonetrooper]

...

In general, sometimes it’s better not to know what a particular character is doing on the sub route, heh...coz otherwise, considering the totality of their actions, it would be easier to just shoot them all, since you won’t get any remorse from them anyway.

Only Elena repented during her redemption arc, but repentance alone is not enough—one must earn forgiveness and atone for their sins. However, those who live “to the fullest,” like Jules, Domi or Alessa, definitely have no intention of repenting. And although someone mentioned a certain path of redemption for Dominique, it’s still unclear how effective it will be for her.

Imho :
What about "neutral" Veronica who invented or perfected the shock chips which cause the sub characters so much pain and keep slaves from revolting? In one canon scene in season 1 she used deafened slaves to clean her office.

Elena is reported as sadistic and evil in the past. If the player chooses a "good" Olivia who saves Seth, Elena will abstain from evil actions for Olivia but that does not mean that she repents her past crimes. If necessary she would likely kill an unlimited number of people to help Olivia win the Gambit. (motherly love)
Edit : If sub Kane rejects Olivia's and Elena's offer for cooperation at the end of E8.1 (elenasubsponsor), there is an (optional) punishment event at start of E8.2 with Elena and Sam punishing Kane for not pledging loyalty to Olivia (pegging, spanking).

A lot of shy and less dominant characters are used in the sub path to "learn" domination which can be funny.
The society is hierarchical, so the girls get trained to lick (or suck) the ones above and whip the ones below or make them lick them.

Yvette and Astrid are the only "Karlsson" main characters who seem not evil. Astrid likely has no option to be evil due to her illness, the cryo sleep and the search for a cure which is more important than sadistic fun.

 

[Stan5851]

Imho :
What about "neutral" Veronica who invented or perfected the shock chips which cause the sub characters so much pain and keep slaves from revolting? In one canon scene in season 1 she used deafened slaves to clean her office.

Veronica did not deaf her slaves.This was confirmed by Tess.The wars about Veronica’s personality raged hundreds of pages ago. I don’t want to repeat the same thing over and over again. If you’re interested in my opinion, look for my old posts about her. No offense.

 

[Stan5851]

Astrid likely has no option to be evil due to her illness, the cryo sleep and the search for a cure which is more important than sadistic fun.

Nope, that’s not the reason. She was perfectly healthy and studied at the same Karlsson Academy, where teachers successfully brainwashed other sisters and their future and current female servants and employees. However, unlike her sisters, Astrid did not buy into this propaganda about female superiority and other false narratives.

This girl had everything one could wish for, but she had the courage and determination to rebel against the evil of her father, for which she paid the price when Alexander infected her with a fatal disease. So no, she had a choice to become evil sadist, but she consciously rejected it.

 

[f96zonetrooper]

In E8.1 at the end of the script there is an easter egg for k1pro only.

label finalboaty:
...
    if k1pro:
        $ tesssubeyes = True
...

label eastereggfork:

    if tesssubeyes:
        jump subeastereggt
    elif True:
        jump endeight
       
...

Spoiler: Easter Egg

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[kinkyshin]

Spoiler

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[kinkyshin]

And since I love Harry Potter so much:

Spoiler

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[f96zonetrooper]

Veronica did not deaf her slaves.This was confirmed by Tess.The wars about Veronica’s personality raged hundreds of pages ago. I don’t want to repeat the same thing over and over again. If you’re interested in my opinion, look for my old posts about her. No offense.

No offense taken.

I try to argue based only on the ingame conversations. Tess' statements on discord do not affect the game's story as long as they are not implemented.

The scene is in E5 : gambitrevealone

Spoiler

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The line
v "And it is a bit inhumane to make these servants deaf, but I must protect information at all costs."
may prepare the player that V may be willing to sacrifice others for the "greater good" ...

I wonder what Yvette did when she "... was having a lovely time with Phoebe ..." ???

 

[Stan5851]

I try to argue based only on the ingame conversations. Tess' statements on discord do not affect the game's story as long as they are not implemented.

Are you kidding me or what? What Discord? You didn’t even bother to open my link and read what’s written there. If you had read it, you would have understood that Tess responded in this thread. And this response is not in the “implemented/not implemented” category. It was given to resolve our long-standing disputeabout whether Veronica deafened the slaves or not.

There were many theories, including the idea that the slave at her feet was behaving unnaturally for someone supposedly deprived of hearing. Later, when Tess came here, she clarified the situation. So this is a fact: Veronica did not deafened the slaves, but she deceived her mother by lying about it.

 

[kinkyshin]

stuff

Hey man, I'm not personally bothered by it and you're not doing anything wrong but just letting you know that the reason you're getting somewhat cold reception is because you're digging through the script and posting it like we haven't all done this already. We have. Many months ago. I mean, at this point (so many months after the latest release) pretty much the only people that still posting here are the diehard fans lol

Playing the k4-sub-route I found an event where Dominique whips Kane and confesses :

Spoiler

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-> "thousands" indicates that it is going on for years and that her behaviour is not related to any current events in the game ...

Yes, I understand this... Dominique does both evil things and good things, which is what she is conflicted about... There are other clues as well that she has been doing this for a very long time besides this (such as Veronica saying that Dominique is the best with the whip). But what I was saying is that there are some options to gently tip the scales in one direction or the other... such as pushing the injured worker into lava instead of saving him or Kane insisting on her saving Kwame. And these small differences may factor in whether or not Cole has the option to convince Dominique to embrace being a good person. Err, is there something about this or my original post that you quoted that you disagree with?

 

[f96zonetrooper]

Are you kidding me or what? What Discord? You didn’t even bother to open my link and read what’s written there. If you had read it, you would have understood that Tess responded in this thread. And this response is not in the “implemented/not implemented” category. It was given to resolve our long-standing disputeabout whether Veronica deafened the slaves or not.

There were many theories, including the idea that the slave at her feet was behaving unnaturally for someone supposedly deprived of hearing. Later, when Tess came here, she clarified the situation. So this is a fact: Veronica did not deafened the slaves, but she deceived her mother by lying about it.

No offense.
I had opened your link, skimmed the text in the images but found it not conclusive compared to what I see in the game/script.
Since it contained screenshots I mistook it for the type of discord discussion where people post discord screenshots. My bad.

I think the general problem is how to treat the (game/script) vs (game/script+Tess' comments). Tess may have the complete story but we don't have the complete game ... and maybe Tess changes the story before she implements it ...

In that discussion between Elena, Yvette and V, many statements are by Elena who also in other conversations points out the cruelty of others.

 

[f96zonetrooper]

Hey man, I'm not personally bothered by it and you're not doing anything wrong but just letting you know that the reason you're getting somewhat cold reception is because you're digging through the script and posting it like we haven't all done this already. We have. Many months ago. I mean, at this point (so many months after the latest release) pretty much the only people that still posting here are the diehard fans lol

No offense.
If everything that can be said about the game is already said, then the thread could be closed or suspended until next update, maybe except for the patreon news and preview images.
The thread is for everybody to discuss the game ... it has currently more than 18k posts (or 900+ pages) ... players come and go, especially with now ca a year between updates ....

I remember another game where discussions went wild and they split the discussions in two parts ... general game thread and an unmoderated discussion in off-topics for diehard fans ...

Yes, I understand this... Dominique does both evil things and good things, which is what she is conflicted about... There are other clues as well that she has been doing this for a very long time besides this (such as Veronica saying that Dominique is the best with the whip). But what I was saying is that there are some options to gently tip the scales in one direction or the other... such as pushing the injured worker into lava instead of saving him or Kane insisting on her saving Kwame. And these small differences may factor in whether or not Cole has the option to convince Dominique to embrace being a good person. Err, is there something about this or my original post that you quoted that you disagree with?

I try to argue based on how variables are used in the current script, not how they are named and might be used in future updates. If the variable has an impact on Dominique in future updates, I will respect that in the future when I have the update.
I posted the two dialogs who change based on player choice how Dominique treats the injured worker in E7. That's all I found in current scripts. Maybe we get more player options to influence her in future updates.

Thoughts/speculations :
Cole was Alexander Karlsson's best friend, so they were probably about the same age ... I guess Dominique sees in Cole the strong and morally good "father" she never had? Dominique probably knows Cole her whole life, allthough he was held captive all that time.
Dominique to Cole :
d "I know. I credit you for being a very impressive man. You're definitely better than my father ever was...it's not even close. But I guess I never met the best version of him."
cole "No, you didn't. He was a great man...once upon a time."
d "I'm not the most wholesome person myself, but I respect a strong man. Men like you barely exist anymore...I wish...I could find even one strong, young man."
d "But sad to say...men like you are an endangered species in today's world..."
Cole cannot be a love interest for Dominique since Cole is Callista's partner, so his options to affect Dominique are limited.

I would expect Kane to have a bonus with Dominique due to being Cole's son, but I don't remember such a reaction by her in the game.
If Kane is K9, Elena says :
ec "[pname] has reached K9 already in the program. And it's not just because he's your son. He's been impressive."
ec "I think he has more potential than both Alexander and Cole. I don't say that lightly."
If Dominique would consider (dom) Kane a worthy son of Cole and as a potential lover, she probably would have said so ...

In the script Cole is first mentioned in E6, so maybe he could not affect the story in earlier episodes due to being one of the many secrets Tess reveals in small pieces ...

Since we have the option to play good and evil Kane and probably will also have the option to save or destroy the Karlsson Group and so the power base of the Karlsson sisters, I guess that Dominique's fate in the end will depend on the game ending, so there will likely be both good and an evil Dominique endings.

 

[kinkyshin]

No offense.

None taken.

I try to argue based on how variables are used in the current script, not how they are named and might be used in future updates. If the variable has an impact on Dominique in future updates, I will respect that in the future when I have the update.
I posted the two dialogs who change based on player choice how Dominique treats the injured worker in E7. That's all I found in current scripts. Maybe we get more player options to influence her in future updates.

Okay, but... if the variables are 'dominiquegood' and 'dominiqueevil', surely we can make some pretty safe assumptions on what they represent based on their names?

Dominique to Cole :

Spoiler

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I would expect Kane to have a bonus with Dominique due to being Cole's son, but I don't remember such a reaction by her in the game.

Well, I don't really know what you mean by "bonus with Dominique due to being Cole's son" but in the same scene that you referenced, she also asks Kane what he knows about his father and then says she heard that he was an impressive man and that Kane would've been proud to see him in action. Doesn't that count?

Also, slightly unrelated but I've always thought it's weird though that none of the Karlssons (except Olivia) will tell Kane what his father's name is WHILE simultaneously being surprised that Callista never told him. Feels like these two things should contradict one another Ah, never mind. Just realized that they're not surprised that Callista didn't tell him his father's name. They're surprised that she didn't tell him about his father while just excluding his name. But now that I think about it further, I think I know why she didn't tell him.

 

[harsha_26]

Imho :
What about "neutral" Veronica who invented or perfected the shock chips which cause the sub characters so much pain and keep slaves from revolting? In one canon scene in season 1 she used deafened slaves to clean her office.

Elena is reported as sadistic and evil in the past. If the player chooses a "good" Olivia who saves Seth, Elena will abstain from evil actions for Olivia but that does not mean that she repents her past crimes. If necessary she would likely kill an unlimited number of people to help Olivia win the Gambit. (motherly love)
Edit : If sub Kane rejects Olivia's and Elena's offer for cooperation at the end of E8.1 (elenasubsponsor), there is an (optional) punishment event at start of E8.2 with Elena and Sam punishing Kane for not pledging loyalty to Olivia (pegging, spanking).

A lot of shy and less dominant characters are used in the sub path to "learn" domination which can be funny.
The society is hierarchical, so the girls get trained to lick (or suck) the ones above and whip the ones below or make them lick them.

Yvette and Astrid are the only "Karlsson" main characters who seem not evil. Astrid likely has no option to be evil due to her illness, the cryo sleep and the search for a cure which is more important than sadistic fun.

I think Evil Elena is canon and flows better in the story, because, her redemption path doesn't looked that convincing. It felt inconsistent and not have enough build up to have a impact in players (especially the ones who already played her evil paths in sub routes) those who want to give her a chance to redeem, especially the dom players.

In other games, I may have said that "Well, it isn't happened in my canon path, so who cares", but in this game, whether you play those routes or not, characters will do some things no matter what (example: Dominique), the only difference is whether you are included in that path or not.

So, yeah, whether you want to do for personal revenge or just want to deliver some kind of "eye for an eye" justice to slaves, I think, atleast for me, evil dom is my canon. Sorry guys, you may have your own reasons to see this game in different eyes, but not me. And I admire Tess for making this game where my hidden emotions coming out so well that weren't part of me normally lol.

The only disappointment is, this "eye for an eye" justice thing wont see it's true potential because of demon path ban. But, that is only for me. I can perfectly understand if other evil dom players are not into extremes.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

I think Evil Elena is canon and flows better in the story, because, her redemption path doesn't looked that convincing. It felt inconsistent and not have enough build up to have a impact in players (especially the ones who already played her evil paths in sub routes) those who want to give her a chance to redeem, especially the dom players.

As much as I hate it, Olivia being good due to MOY's teachings and turning Elena makes more sense for the story then Olivia just suddenly turning to the dark side cuz she's in power