VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.31 TestB] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

That actually kinda bothered me a bit on a sub playthrough. It makes perfect sense for Dom Kane to show initiative and even confront Veronica, but Sub Kane is a whole different animal - weak-willed, pathetic sad excuse of a man who doesn't even own his own dick. Why on Earth would he feel so strongly about saving Maria as to defy that bitch Goddess Veronica? Worms like him don't get to make decisions, their job is to obey.

At least, that's my understanding of the Sub mindset in general. Real Subs, please correct me if I'm wrong here.

To not just obey was Kane's internal struggle if I remember right. Don't remember the dialogue justification on insisting on doing it anyway.

I could see a k4 doing it since the mentality and final role for them is supposed to be more "butler" as opposed to "dirt slave". Though that's only given lip service a couple of times and they are treated like the rest of the slaves.

 

[Stan5851]

To not just obey was Kane's internal struggle if I remember right. Don't remember the dialogue justification on insisting on doing it anyway.

I could see a k4 doing it since the mentality and final role for them is supposed to be more "butler" as opposed to "dirt slave". Though that's only given lip service a couple of times and they are treated like the rest of the slaves.

This proves once again that the entire sub route is nothing more than fan service aimed at a specific audience who don't need any justification for their MC to behave like a pathetic slave..Whereas the only real goal in Gambit is not to fall any lower, but to rise as high as possible, having come all the way "from slave to Caesar" and ultimately taking all power into his own hands. (imho)

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

This proves once again that the entire sub route is nothing more than fan service aimed at a specific audience who don't need any justification for their MC to behave like a pathetic slave..Whereas the only real goal in Gambit is not to fall any lower, but to rise as high as possible, having come all the way "from slave to Caesar" and ultimately taking all power into his own hands. (imho)

If you're k5 you are only a slave on paper. Not really treated as one and more like an intern doing job training at a company. Fan service in the opposite direction for player's fantasy. Most Dom players wouldn't like it if they were treated as a slave as they work their way out of it. Instead of players always talking about "revenge" when Dom Kane gets in power, I'd send a thank you gift basket for giving me slave girls, a Bugatti, and control of the company as a part of my "slave treatment".

There is no "slave to Caesar" in this game unless you start as k4.

 

[Stan5851]

If you're k5 you are only a slave on paper. Not really treated as one and more like an intern doing job training at a company. Fan service in the opposite direction for player's fantasy. Most Dom players wouldn't like it if they were treated as a slave as they work their way out of it. Instead of players always talking about "revenge" when Dom Kane gets in power, I'd send a thank you gift basket for giving me slave girls, a Bugatti, and control of the company as a part of my "slave treatment".

There is no "slave to Caesar" in this game unless you start as k4.

I think I should clarify what I mean. So I'll just quote my old post.

I mean, Kane gets a motivational verbal kick in the ass from literally every woman in JF telling him that Kane will only have a better future if he shows character, is not a spineless worm, is a confident strong and determined man...This is said by almost all the sisters, this is said by the staff...And this motivation haunts us as we move from rank to rank (up to K9).And Tess herself has written many times that she loves strong and self-confident men, and that's why in all these motivational speeches that fall on Kane, I see, among other things, the desire of Tess herself to convey between the lines a simple (and, perhaps, for some, "unfashionable") idea that women love confident men, on whose strong shoulder they can lean.

Remember all those sadistic bitches, how they melted in Kane's arms and how all their pomp and superiority disappeared when they realized that they don't have to pretend anymore and they can just be themselves, be a simple woman next to a strong man... So I agree with Maviarab that sub path is an artificial construct, a kind of fan service, but the true victory will be possible only when Kane gets to the top of the power pyramid as an independent player (Dom), and not as someone's slave, who will then be sold at auction or who will remain someone's personal pet/toilet.

As for “from slave to Caesar,” technically (on paper, according to rank), even Dom Kane is formally a slave until he receives the M+rank.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

I think I should clarify what I mean. So I'll just quote my old post.

I know. We talked on that before. I wasn't disputing your sub route thought and yes dom fits "better", but dom route still feels a little clunky too with the overall theme of "be a hard man and go through hard things and prove you're a badass". All you do is not roll over and you win. Hardly a "test" for Kane to prove himself that Alexander makes it out to be to mimic his own life journey.

Elana: Alright Kane. Grovel.
Kane: No. You wouldn't be here if you didn't need me. So make your offer.

Every women: What a badass fuck meeeeeee. Have everything on a silver platter from now on.

 

[harsha_26]

In my opinion, on both routes, women behave somewhat "artificial" to believe. Women like Junko will treat you like shit just because you are on sub Path, and Women like Phoebe, Celeste will respect you and name villa in your name just because you "assisted them" in their netori fantasies, where majority of the stuff happened in those scenes will be lead by women only. Alesandra and domKane (pure) have zero chemistry but they have sex with no problems just because you are in for a new paris harem settlement.

Women like Elena, who talks all emotional with Callista, who have been like best friend of her, but treat her son as shit and cruel and told him to get into car dicky as there is no place, But in Dom path, she sees you like a son she never had.

There are so many examples like this. But what really domKane done to girls logically to earn their respect? Nothing Much. Everything is a cake walk to him. Its like you writing karlsson's exam but the proctors (sisters and their fem gang) are already telling you the answers to most of the questions (except some).

 

[harsha_26]

If you're k5 you are only a slave on paper. Not really treated as one and more like an intern doing job training at a company. Fan service in the opposite direction for player's fantasy. Most Dom players wouldn't like it if they were treated as a slave as they work their way out of it. Instead of players always talking about "revenge" when Dom Kane gets in power, I'd send a thank you gift basket for giving me slave girls, a Bugatti, and control of the company as a part of my "slave treatment".

There is no "slave to Caesar" in this game unless you start as k4.

I mean the way you are treated in Prison is nothing less to slave even if you are dom. So, that kind of qualifies Slave to Caesar or like Prisoner to Caesar, Like Gladiator but a ruler too?

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

I mean the way you are treated in Prison is nothing less to slave even if you are dom. So, that kind of qualifies Slave to Caesar or like Prisoner to Caesar, Like Gladiator but a ruler too?

Nah.
I prison where Kane is given the upmost care and consideration over everyone else beyond a usual prisoner since he is vital for the gambit's success. More of a holding area to force Kane to participate in the "test" that is his program.

The game has various narrative clashes that come up often ."Sub" Kane not really being sub but slave, "Dom" Kane not domming much and not being dom, but instead just "not sub", Alexander's "test", Calista things, etc, etc various other things that have been stated a bit here.

Not to mention that the game is ultimately a fun scenario fantasy and needs to cater to that. Nothing wrong with that. Just stating what is.

 

[Stan5851]

I know. We talked on that before. I wasn't disputing your sub route thought and yes dom fits "better", but dom route still feels a little clunky too with the overall theme of "be a hard man and go through hard things and prove you're a badass". All you do is not roll over and you win. Hardly a "test" for Kane to prove himself that Alexander makes it out to be to mimic his own life journey.

Yes, the Karlssons placed Kane in a similar environment to the one Alexander himself had been in, but it would be good to remember how Alexander's thorny path ended—he defeated all the sadistic bitches and became the Boss. Can sub Kane, within the framework of what Tess has prepared for him, achieve what Alexander achieved? No, he can't.

At best, he will become someone's butler, i.e., a servant...a follower, not a leader. So yes, Alexander experienced a lot of humiliation in the process of his ascent, but after going through it, he was able to become king of the mountain. As for sub Kane, according to what I have read in this thread, he has neither the motivation nor the ability to achieve such success, and he simply goes with the flow and grovels without thinking about anything.

 

[harsha_26]

So guys, other than the non-kink elements of the story (which is great and im playing this game mainly for non-kink elements), both routes are fan service. Tess is inspired by Mass Effect games and she is really a vanilla woman. Yes, she have Sadistic tendencies but inside, she just want a strong man (admitted by herself). That's why you see those sadistic elements in sub route, where as dom route goals, especially if you follow good route, feels like vanilla-focused and Veronica is the only best woman you can end up with.

Poor Astrid. I hope she can be so many times better than her sister in TQA and a hopeless romantic.

 

[harsha_26]

Nah.
I prison where Kane is given the upmost care and consideration over everyone else beyond a usual prisoner since he is vital for the gambit's success. More of a holding area to force Kane to participate in the "test" that is his program.

The game has various narrative clashes that come up often ."Sub" Kane not really being sub but slave, "Dom" Kane not domming much and not being dom, but instead just "not sub", Alexander's "test", Calista things, etc, etc various other things that have been stated a bit here.

Not to mention that the game is ultimately a fun scenario fantasy and needs to cater to that. Nothing wrong with that. Just stating what is.

"Kane is given the upmost care and consideration over everyone else beyond a usual prisoner"
Sure, but still got shock torture and slaps as well in conversation with Elena.

 

[Stan5851]

There are so many examples like this. But what really domKane done to girls logically to earn their respect? Nothing Much. Everything is a cake walk to him. Its like you writing karlsson's exam but the proctors (sisters and their fem gang) are already telling you the answers to most of the questions (except some).

That's right, only the female examiners speak with Tess's voice, and she also prompts the correct answers to most of the questions. That is, as I have written about many times, a fairly transparent reflection of her own views on men and their "canon patriarchal role" (to be strong, self confident, and determined, to be the breadwinner, to be the boss, to take responsibility, etc.).

Yes, Dom's path is an easy walk in the park, but who said that a fantastic porn game should cause suffering? I suppose we have a sub route for suffering, lol.

Yes, she have Sadistic tendencies but inside, she just want a strong man (admitted by herself).

Not only does it acknowledge this, but it actively conveys it in the game through most of the female characters (at least on the Dom route), which I have written about many times, but some subs usually prefer to ignore this, because such an approach by the dev completely shatters their patterns/expectations.

where as dom route goals, especially if you follow good route, feels like vanilla-focused and Veronica is the only best woman you can end up with.

Veronica isn't the most obvious choice here. From the very beginning, the game pushes us to build a relationship with Olivia, and personally, I think she's the ideal LI for the GoodDom route.

As for the "vanilla" on the Dom side, there may be many factors at play here, ranging from gender issues (when female developers are unable to accurately portray male power fantasies in games... The same applies to male developers, who may also have difficulty conveying female perspectives, points of view, and behavior in their games) to the presence of Tess own favorite kinks.

In addition, there may be issues related to the policies of gaming platforms, which are much more tolerant of torture and humiliation of men (poor us!) than of women...So there could be many reasons for the vanilla nature of the Dom path, and we are unlikely to ever find out unless Tess decides to be candid about it and explains the reasons herself.

 

[Hazardgaming]

Why you want to sabotage bridge route, especially in dom? There might be a chance for Kane to rule both karlssons and decocks too, hopefully with new paris.

I’m not sure that explaining it would make much sense, as it’s not based on good logic. I despise bad ultimatums.. and the bridge project is built upon the foundation of a bad ultimatum. I.E. Callista giving in to Alexander’s demands.

What would Alexander have gained, if Callista had stood her ground and allowed Kane to die as a result of whatever was placed inside of him? The answer is nothing. Had Alexander gained what he wanted no matter if his ultimatum was accepted or rejected, then I would have been fully on board with Callista’s bridge project.

 

[Stan5851]

Sure, but still got shock torture and slaps as well in conversation with Elena.

It is not necessary. It all depends on the decisions you make during your conversation with Elena (in the prison). You can reasonably express your unwillingness to obey her, and she will listen to you and praise Kane for your unconventional response. However, if you are cocky, then yes, Kane will receive a shock.

 

[harsha_26]

That's right, only the female examiners speak with Tess's voice, and she also prompts the correct answers to most of the questions. That is, as I have written about many times, a fairly transparent reflection of her own views on men and their "canon patriarchal role" (to be strong, self confident, and determined, to be the breadwinner, to be the boss, to take responsibility, etc.).

Yes, Dom's path is an easy walk in the park, but who said that a fantastic porn game should cause suffering? I suppose we have a sub route for suffering, lol.

Not only does it acknowledge this, but it actively conveys it in the game through most of the female characters (at least on the Dom route), which I have written about many times, but some subs usually prefer to ignore this, because such an approach by the dev completely shatters their patterns/expectations.

Veronica isn't the most obvious choice here. From the very beginning, the game pushes us to build a relationship with Olivia, and personally, I think she's the ideal LI for the GoodDom route.

As for the "vanilla" on the Dom side, there may be many factors at play here, ranging from gender issues (when female developers are unable to accurately portray male power fantasies in games... The same applies to male developers, who may also have difficulty conveying female perspectives, points of view, and behavior in their games) to the presence of Tess own favorite kinks.

In addition, there may be issues related to the policies of gaming platforms, which are much more tolerant of torture and humiliation of men (poor us!) than of women...So there could be many reasons for the vanilla nature of the Dom path, and we are unlikely to ever find out unless Tess decides to be candid about it and explains the reasons herself.

Yeah evil dom path is doomed due to policies of gaming platforms where as sub route gets very harsh kinks. Hope someone will create a game where doms can also enjoy all the harsh kinks on women.

I asked tess for female torture content which is already in the game for sub path by female on men, like pissing, slapping, whipping, kicking, farting on women. But she ignored. So, yeah, Dom paths are really vanilla focused in future too even when Kane is into Z ranks. In evil dom route, evil kinks will be there, but it mostly gonna be girl on girl torture where we just order them our kinks indirectly.
I think tess should change the dom path to Non-Sub or Girl-on-Girl Dom.

 

[harsha_26]

It is not necessary. It all depends on the decisions you make during your conversation with Elena (in the prison). You can reasonably express your unwillingness to obey her, and she will listen to you and praise Kane for your unconventional response. However, if you are cocky, then yes, Kane will receive a shock.

Whatever the reasons, there is a way to get tortured and slapped but still get a k5 rank, so "Slave to Ceaser" aka Vanilla King or "Indirect Maledom King" lol.

 

[akki_sky]

Veronica is the only best woman you can end up with.

Dev ruined Veronica for me. Kane cannot lead when he is on her route. Only Olivia is getting Island 4 points. That is main reason Veronica is not in my favorite list.

 

[harsha_26]

Dev ruined Veronica for me. Kane cannot lead when he is on her route. Only Olivia is getting Island 4 points. That is main reason Veronica is not in my favorite list.

Yes, it is right on veronica route (true world state B), Kane cant lead. Either Olivia or Veronica or Cole will. But, you can do one thing, Romance with both veronica and olivia (sub), they wont lead. Father will lead. He is a good dom man.

 

[risky0]

Veronica is the only best woman you can end up with.

NO.

I don't want to go down that rabbit hole again, but Veronica's shock device, which she invented to enslave people, and the disgusting experiments she conducted on them, put her at the top of my list of people to kill at the first opportunity. That woman is very dangerous and makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Stan5851]

Dev ruined Veronica for me. Kane cannot lead when he is on her route. Only Olivia is getting Island 4 points. That is main reason Veronica is not in my favorite list.

I think leadership in factions is overrated. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter who the leader is, the only thing that matters is who gets power over the Corporation and who controls all the processes...A faction is not a ruling political party, but rather an informal association of people who share common goals and interests and are ready to defend them.

As for Veronica, I don't know if this will help you, but if your DomKane tries very hard and fulfills a number of game conditions, you can get a harem of Liv+Veronica within World State B.