RPGM Completed Karryn's Prison [v1.2.9.64 + DLCs] [Remtairy]

[ronadan]

the game is about balance... so, i don't agree.

it's a viable and easy-to-follow strategy for a new player. that said, if you have a better strategy for that stage of the game, I'm sure poisonbug would appreciate hearing it

if you want to criticize, fine. but at least offer an alternative.

 

[Purple_Heart]

...

You wrote exactly my feelings for this game, better than I probably could, everything was spot-on.
Especially the part about hidden information. I feel like just about everything is hidden: enemy stats during battle(all stats, including numeric health), damage preview, turn order, vague edicts with up and down arrows, vague skill descriptions...
This game is full of guessing. Nothing is certain because almost everything is hidden.
Who's gonna act first in battle? Guess.
Who's gonna act next? Guess.
How much damage you can do? Guess.
How much health enemies have? Guess.
How much effects buff and debuff skills have? Guess.
How much crit chance I or enemies have? Guess.
Edicts with up and down arrows, how much of an effect they have? Guess.
Current riot chances of each level? Guess.
Why did I just unlocked a passive that has negative effects? Guess.
There's also hidden mechanics only found by looking at the game's files, when I found this for the first time I said a few insults loudly to devs. I still find this unbelievable. They expect me to play this game lots of times while hiding gameplay mechanics from me. I'm glad I didn't buy it. I've probably spent 1/3 of my gameplay time digging through it's files to discover hidden mechanics and change values of some questionable design choices. Fuck that shit, seriously.

 

[Neriel]

You can beat the bar fight 1st day on Prisoner and no accessories?

Ok, I said how and why your magical, threading the razor's edge 19-29-39-49 Prisoner herobook, no losses, no halberd, armor or stat upgrades, all in one shot strains believability, and then i dropped it, but this one i will call you out on - you are full of it.
And im not talking about trying it until it eventually works out, no.
To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish. No re-tries, obv.
Your words: Prisoner. Day1. No accessories. Go for it, champ.

I am not gonna address all the other stuff, since I don't want this to drag on. I was talking in context of a NG+ run you did and the challenge run. Not a fresh save. But since I am in a good mood, here I did it even on a fresh save, first try. Now to be fair 2 of the Thugs I could not beat down quick enough before they masturbated themselves to death. I could retry until I get it but maybe you now understand why I said, that I could do it since in NG+ you have a lot of more titles and therefor are stronger.



So here again, now with NG+. And this time I beat them without anybody masturbating themselves to death.

So please go ahead how full I am. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it is impossible.

Lets not sugarcoat it here: its not "some" information that's hidden. Just some examples of vital information hidden: enemy stats, combat act order, actual numerical values for health, overblow protection breakpoints, basic damage estimates

That is why I said viewpoint. All those things are for me just one thing in terms of, that the game doesn't give you Statistical Data. Sure if you look at it one by one, in mounts up. But for me this is one issue. Not 10 as an example. But I can repeat myself and seems like people ignore always certain parts of what I say, so whatever not gonna continue it. (also... enemy stats... really? I can understand a lot of things but if you mean, that you need to know exact values of all their Core Stats, then we are starting to talk about hand holding)

 

[gzrtjhgtyhjljk]

You wrote exactly my feelings for this game, better than I probably could, everything was spot-on.
Especially the part about hidden information. I feel like just about everything is hidden: enemy stats during battle(all stats, including numeric health), damage preview, turn order, vague edicts with up and down arrows, vague skill descriptions...
This game is full of guessing. Nothing is certain because almost everything is hidden.
Who's gonna act first in battle? Guess.
Who's gonna act next? Guess.
How much damage you can do? Guess.
How much health enemies have? Guess.
How much effects buff and debuff skills have? Guess.
How much crit chance I or enemies have? Guess.
Edicts with up and down arrows, how much of an effect they have? Guess.
Current riot chances of each level? Guess.
Why did I just unlocked a passive that has negative effects? Guess.
There's also hidden mechanics only found by looking at the game's files, when I found this for the first time I said a few insults loudly to devs. I still find this unbelievable. They expect me to play this game lots of times while hiding gameplay mechanics from me. I'm glad I didn't buy it. I've probably spent 1/3 of my gameplay time digging through it's files to discover hidden mechanics and change values of some questionable design choices. Fuck that shit, seriously.

The beautiful part here is that everything makes sense and is logical, but you need to fail first before realizing this. Most game mechanics are explained by the guards in the break room and the prisoners in the mess hall and courtyard. Core stats are explained really well when you look at the edicts that improve the growth rate. However, I agree that this is done very poorly because the information is spread over 4 or 5 edicts. All the other things that you mention are vague by design. You get an estimate what the effects of a certain edict will be, but never the exact numbers.

The only real issues for new players are the decreasing subsidies when your order is high (again, this is logical if you think about it) and not specializing in a certain stat (also logical, since you'd be mediocre at everything). And of course also the fact that autosave is on by default when you play on normal difficulty. That's the only thing I find truly annoying about this game, but you can make manual backups of your saves throughout the game.

 

[gzrtjhgtyhjljk]

I am not gonna address all the other stuff, since I don't want this to drag on. I was talking in context of a NG+ run you did and the challenge run. Not a fresh save. But since I am in a good mood, here I did it even on a fresh save, first try. Now to be fair 2 of the Thugs I could not beat down quick enough before they masturbated themselves to death. I could retry until I get it but maybe you now understand why I said, that I could do it since in NG+ you have a lot of more titles and therefor are stronger.

View attachment 1874448

So here again, now with NG+. And this time I beat them without anybody masturbating themselves to death. View attachment 1874458

So please go ahead how full I am. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it is impossible.

Which edicts did you buy for those two runs?

 

[Neriel]

Which edicts did you buy for those two runs?

Mind Training 1 and Healing Thoughts. If you don't buy the +10 Acc. Items, which makes sence in a Aspring Hero Challenge Run, you need to have staying power. So being able to replenish Energy is a must. Now ofc I would still not fight in the Bar. It only takes a bad roll with a red Thug to ruin your day.

 

[Purple_Heart]

The beautiful part here is that everything makes sense and is logical, but you need to fail first before realizing this. Most game mechanics are explained by the guards in the break room and the prisoners in the mess hall and courtyard. Core stats are explained really well when you look at the edicts that improve the growth rate.

The only real issues for new players are the decreasing subsidies when your order is high (again, this is logical if you think about it) and not specializing in a certain stat (also logical, since you'd be mediocre at everything). And of course also the fact that autosave is on by default when you play on normal difficulty. That's the only thing I find truly annoying about this game, but you can make manual backups of your saves throughout the game.

You're assuming I'm new to the game, I didn't the complete the game AND I didn't read a few poorly written "explainations" that can be found by talking to npc's. That's lots of assumptions.

There's no excuse for the lack of information. If it is all by design, it is a bad design that deserves all the negativity it gets.
If I was making a turn based strategy game, the first thing I do would be creating an easy to read ui that has lots of information, especially turn order.
If I was making a game with lots of management options like this game has(edicts) I'd make sure they have exact descriptions of what they do in order to NOT leave the player playing the guessing game.

None of this is excusable, play any other turn based strategy game and see how they work. Go ahead and play xcom 2 for example. See how that game explains everything perfectly and has no bs hidden mechanics. Perfectly clear base management, perfectly clear combat. Nothing is hidden. If you lose it's your fault. If you lose in karryn's prison it's either because you didn't know what happened due to lack of information(example: stacked negative passives without knowing why) or game decided it is time for you to lose by spawning a rare powerful enemy. You rarely lose because it is your fault, which isn't fun at all.

 

[Nazzar]

-snip-

Where to start...Ok for the most obvious, images can in no way show items equipped or game difficulty. For all i know, you slapped some accessories then removed them after the fight, and I have no way to know how many tries it took you. Or played secretary. But thats neither here nor there.

Moving on, I cant help notice you are missing 1100 starting gold. You wouldnt happen to have used them for edicts that will help with this *specific* fight would you...?

There is a reason i said

To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish

Because no one in their right mind, intending to play normally would start the game buying items and skills specifically directed for the entirely inconsequential and optional event of fighting in the bar. No, the smart thing anyone would do is shore up their financial situation with -expense and +income edicts.
And that's *not* what you did, is it?
The point was simulating an actual run, like mine, whose success - by all accounts - you severely hampered by opting for day 1 combat purchases. Its not a playthrough you ever intended to finish, which invalidates the whole premise of the experiment.

Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it is impossible

...you are just wanking to the sound of your keystrokes with this one. And again, you are completely missing the idea. Barfight can be done day 1. Just not even close to reliably enough, so that one would risk actually doing it in a run, you'd intend to finish.

 

[gzrtjhgtyhjljk]

Mind Training 1 and Healing Thoughts. If you don't buy the +10 Acc. Items, which makes sence in a Aspring Hero Challenge Run, you need to have staying power. So being able to replenish Energy is a must. Now ofc I would still not fight in the Bar. It only takes a bad roll with a red Thug to ruin your day.

A sensible strategy and probably the only strategy that's close to being viable on day 1.

But I'm going to call bullshit too because you have 1 corruption. You only get corruption from buying accessories (which you can't because you don't have edict points left), from fighting the guards near the office (the chances of you having a nice rounded 900 gold in both screenshots after that fight are one in a billion) and certain edicts (which you can't buy because you have no points left). Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm pretty sure those are all the sources of corruption in the game.

 

[Neriel]

Where to start...Ok for the most obvious, images can in no way show items equipped or game difficulty. For all i know, you slapped some accessories then removed them after the fight, *or* how many tries it took you. But thats neither here nor there.

Oh yeah, because the very obvious Corruption 1 doesn't clearly show, that I didn't buy a single Acc. Item. Or the -9 in Control doesn't show, that it is Prisoner Mode with the insane - in income I have. Now with the tries... look I really don't care. It is clear, that you will question everything anyway, even if evidence slaps you in the face and since I cannot prove that it was first try, think what you want.

Moving on, I cant help notice you are missing 1100 starting gold. You wouldnt happen to have used them for edicts that will help with this *specific* fight would you...?

My first day I always go for Edicts that improve my fighting ability. Normally that would be 2 Acc. Items with +10 Agi and +10 Dex to make fights easier. So same Story here. Just that I go for Mind Training 1 and Healing Thoughts. I don't worry too much about money, since the main income will happen anyways at the start from low Order and farming money on the First Floor, not because of Edicts.

There is a reason i said
Because no one in their right mind, intending to play normally would start the game buying items and skills specifically directed for the entirely inconsequential and optional event of fighting in the bar. No, the smart thing anyone would do is shore up their financial situation with -expense and +income edicts.
And that's *not* what you did, is it?
The point was simulating an actual run, like mine, whose success - by all accounts - you severely hampered by opting for day 1 combat purchases. Its not a playthrough you ever intended to finish, which invalidates the whole premise of the experiment.


...you are just wanking to the sound of your keystrokes now.

Well maybe then you are doing something wrong? Or maybe, just maybe, there are more ways to play the game. Crazy thought. It is actually kinda funny, that somebody like you, comes at me like this. If you would have been here a few months people would have said to you, the things you are doing are impossible on Prisoner Mode since you need x Titles. You are actually good enough to beat Prisoner Mode without the help of NG+ but at the same time, somehow are very limited in your viewpoint. I never start with fixing my Income right away. I focus on making fights as easy as possible, to make farming on the First Floor easy. So yes, I was simulating how I would start a run like that. Ok I would not fight in the Bar, since it is still a risk that you don't have to take but that would be hard to do in an argument, that is about beating the Bar Day 1.

 

[Neriel]

A sensible strategy and probably the only strategy that's close to being viable on day 1.

But I'm going to call bullshit too because you have 1 corruption. You only get corruption from buying accessories (which you can't because you don't have edict points left), from fighting the guards near the office (the chances of you having a nice rounded 900 gold in both screenshots after that fight are one in a billion) and certain edicts (which you can't buy because you have no points left). Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm pretty sure those are all the sources of corruption in the game.

You always start with 1 Corruption.

 

[Nazzar]

It only takes a bad roll with a red Thug to ruin your day.

Its weird to see you acknowledge this, as the general impression i got was that you hold undisputed dominion over all things RNG.

Ok I would not fight in the Bar, since it is still a risk that you don't have to take but that woudl be hard to do in an argument, that is about beating the Bar Day 1.

That was the point of the exercise. The inconsequential barfight can be done day 1. Just not even remotely close to reliably enough, so that anyone would risk actually doing it in a serious prisoner run one intends to finish.

I never start with fixing my Income right away. I focus on making fights as easy as possible, to make farming on the First Floor easy

Those 2 sentences seem self-contradictory; how do you go about making fights easy without the bank to buy edicts or items?
Best long-term planning day1 start for any difficulty is firing the imperial guards, taking "self-paid equipment" edict then going to bed.
And that, ill fight anyone on.

 

[Neriel]

That was the point of the exercise. The inconsequential barfight can be done day 1. Just not even remotely close to reliably enough, so that anyone would risk actually doing it in a serious prisoner run one intends to finish.

You can beat the bar fight 1st day on Prisoner and no accessories?

Ok, I said how and why your magical, threading the razor's edge 19-29-39-49 Prisoner herobook, no losses, no halberd, armor or stat upgrades, all in one shot strains believability, and then i dropped it, but this one i will call you out on - you are full of it.
And im not talking about trying it until it eventually works out, no.
To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish. No re-tries, obv.
Your words: Prisoner. Day1. No accessories. Go for it, champ.

You called me out and I did it. Also I can repeat that feat. The only issue can be, if red Thugs appear as an example. So I can beat the Bar on Day 1. But just because I can, doesn't mean I would do it in a serious run, since it is a risk, that I will not take in a serious run. My original point was never "Hey I always go for Bar Day 1 in my runs!" I said

I can fight in the Bar 1st Day and not lose.

And that is what I did after you were calling me out on it. So can we just leave it be now. Talking about strategies is at least interesting but this is getting tiresome of getting called out on everything.

Those 2 sentences seem self-contradictory; how do you go about making fights easy without the bank to buy edicts or items?
Best long-term planning day1 start for any difficulty is firing the imperial guards, taking "self-paid equipment" edict then going to bed.
And that, ill fight anyone on.

To repeat myself. I make the fights easy, by buying the +10 Acc. Items for Agi/Dex (or in the Challenge Run you did Mind Training 1 and Healing Thoughts). After that I don't need any Fighting Edicts anymore since I am strong enough to farm on the First Floor. Prisoners and Goblins are easy enemies on the First Floor. The only dangerous enemy are Thugs and they only spawn in specific rooms.

And look, you can play however you want but why would I start with those 2 Edicts and go to bed? I would just be wasting a Day that I can train Karryn. And the gain would be what? 200 Gold? Well let's say 400 since Day 2 is only 1 Edict. Do your runs depend so much on those extra 400 Gold? And I am actually curious, because I like talking about strats so this is not meant in any disrespectful way, before somebody calls me out again.

 

[fdgftrtrwr]

View attachment 1873399
Can someone tell me how to fix this i have this problem and i dont know how to fix this

Is it Lenovo y580?

 

[Tw@Computers]

Which is the canon ending? if it's the pure one that would be an interesting twist

 

[Nazzar]

And look, you can play however you want but why would I start with those 2 Edicts and go to bed? I would just be wasting a Day that I can train Karryn. And the gain would be what? 200 Gold? Well let's say 400 since Day 2 is only 1 Edict. Do your runs depend so much on those extra 400 Gold? And I am actually curious, because I like talking about strats so this is not meant in any disrespectful way, before somebody calls me out again.

The going to bed isnt because you cant fight the first packs. Its because its detrimental to do so. Staggering floors 1 and 2 are your best bet to shore up you financial stability before the shitstorm that follows after clearing floors 2 and 3 at which point you are threatened with 2 riots/day. (which - again - "Riot chance arrow up/down" does jack for helping me plan out and resembles nothing close to how a proper risk management mechanic should be.)

In "training" your karyn so early on, you gain order, thus delaying the crucial sub 35 subsidiary breakpoint. The going to bed without fighting is to expedite getting to these lower levels. I continue with income increasing edicts and rest with no fighting unti day 4, where order is dropped to a safe, but very profitable 33. You can even let it fall to 15 for maximum gold gain, as long as you have the kitchen edict still ready for use, just in case.

Then, I start training on the first 2 packs of enemies, ever so slightly pushing order up, but not beyond the breakpoint, while getting stat increases. It takes no mathematician to calculate that - as opposed to your way - you'd not only lose on the day 1 +200gold, youd lose gold on day 2 because of only 1 edict allowed. And you'll probably have something more pertinent to do in day3, so it snowballs to alot more potential income lost.

In addition, you lose even more gold because you push your order higher by training so early, in a way youd never get your subsidiary breakpoints to their optimally beneficial levels for the floor. I use the first 2 floors to shore up my financial stability, because thats the only reliably safe point to do so.
Thats why in my "aspiring hero" save, i have full halberd strengthen+specialization upgrades going into the final boss, whereas you have 0 and no infrastructure to speak of.

I do not say "mathematically xxx" just as a phrase. I take a very clinical approach in any and all things, once i set my mind to do them proper. And out of all approaches the one i described for day1 wins over the alternatives, easy.

 

[Neriel]

The going to bed isnt because you cant fight the first packs. Its because its detrimental to do so. Staggering floors 1 and 2 are your best bet to shore up you financial stability before the shitstorm that follows after clearing floors 2 and 3 at which point you are threatened with 2 riots/day. (which - again - "Riot chance arrow up/down" does jack for helping me plan out and resembles nothing close to how a proper risk management mechanic should be.)

Well I actually agree with everything here said. With the exeption of that it is detrimental to fight Day 1 but we will get to that.

In "training" your karyn so early on, you gain order, thus delaying the crucial sub 35 subsidiary breakpoint. The going to bed without fighting is to expedite getting to these lower levels. I continue with income increasing edicts and rest with no fighting unti day 4, where order is dropped to a safe, but very profitable 33.

Well I can already tell, that you cannot stay to long on the First Floor if you on purpose let your Order fall that quick. My idea of farming is, to stay as long as possible on the First Floor to farm there as much as possible. So I need to keep Order at the start higher, so when the Control Penalty hits I can farm longer. Sure you are getting a head start but not so sure, if you actually come out with a + compared to me after leaving the First Floor, since I stay a long time on the First Floor. Would be interesting to know, which is more money effective.

Then, I start training on the first 2 packs of enemies, ever so slightly pushing order up, but not beyond the breakpoint, while getting stat increases. It takes no mathematician to calculate that - as opposed to your way - you'd not only lose on the day 1 +200gold, youd lose gold on day 2 because of only 1 edict allowed, in addition to losing gold because you push your order higher by training so early, in a way youd never get your subsidiary breakpoints to their optimally beneficial levels for the floor. I use the first 2 floors to shore up my financial stability, because thats the only reliably safe point to do so.
Thats why in aspiring hero save, i have full halberd strengthen+specialization upgrades going into the final boss, whereas you have 0.

Same point as before. I stay longer on the First Floor compared to you, so who knows, who makes more money.

I did not say "mathematically xxx" just as a phrase before. Im very clinical in any and all things, once i set my mind to do them proper. And out of all approaches the one i described for day1 wins over the alternatives, easy.

Easy over other alternatives? Nah, but always nice to see different approches working.

 

[Assassin3]

True, but this is a prison where the inmates apparently are all armed. So...?

Armed? I don't recall it mentioned anywhere in game or even on this thread that inmates were armed with weapons. Unless they have a gun point towards her head a little fucking shiv isn't gonna be enough to threaten her to obey their every command. We r talking about Karryn here, where she doesn't end up like a little weak bitch through out the entire game.

 

[Nazzar]

Well I can already tell, that you cannot stay to long on the First Floor if you on purpose let your Order fall that quick.
I stay longer on the First Floor compared to you, so who knows, who makes more money.

I stay on floor 1 and 2 up until *and* including the first day that goes over the limit and increases control loss by 1. So that cant be true, unless you deliberately stay on the same floor for days on end after your time limit, deliberately losing massive amounts of control points, for some unfathomable reason

I can and I have maintained order at 15 for maximum gold gain/day, and kept kitchen+guard edicts still ready for use as a backup, in case fighting isnt enough to push it. Which i can afford because of the surplus gold i have. So i still stand behind firing imperials, cutting costs and going to bed is the best deal one can take day1.

 

[Neriel]

I stay on floor 1 and 2 up until *and* including the first day that goes over the limit and increases control loss by 1. So thats not true, unless by some unfathomable reason you deliberately stay on the same floor for days on end after your time limit.

I can, and have, let order drop to 15 for maximum gold gain/day, and keep kitchen+guard edicts still ready for use as a backup, in case fighting isnt enough to push it. Which i can afford because of the surplus gold i have.

Yes, that is what I do on the first Floor. And why is it an unfathomable reason, to farm longer on the 1st Floor now? 1st Floor are no Riots, so I can let Order fall as low as I want because I don't have to worry a Riot happening, until the Point in which I would lose the game. Doesn't matter if I have a Control penalty of -10 and lose 20 Order a Day. If I have 25 Order, then I know, I can farm another day. Then I get Kitchen to extend that period just a bit longer. Then I proceed to the Boss on a Day, in which I only have 1 Edict point, so I have 2 Edict Points on the Second Floor right away for important purchases.

deliberately losing massive amounts of control points, for some unfathomable reason

You do know, that the Control Penalty resets, when you enter a new Floor? So why would that be a problem?