RPGM Completed Karryn's Prison [v1.2.9.64 + DLCs] [Remtairy]

[Nazzar]

I dont want to crunch the actual numbers to prove it, but I assure you, maintaining a 15 order as of day 6 (until which point, youve only been selecting financial imrovements), with smart usage of control edicts earns you a massive net gain, as opposed to entering time limit control loss with combat edicts, having maintained ~60 order at that point (which is an overall severe loss in subsidiaries multiplier), so you can afford staying 4-5 extra days over me - again at a lower subsidiary multiplier - until you are forced out of the floor.

 

[Assassin3]

You can beat the bar fight 1st day on Prisoner and no accessories?

Ok, I said how and why your magical, threading the razor's edge 19-29-39-49 Prisoner herobook, no losses, no halberd, armor or stat upgrades, all in one shot strains believability, and then i dropped it, but this one i will call you out on - you are full of it.
And im not talking about trying it until it eventually works out, no.
To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish. No re-tries, obv.
Your words: Prisoner. Day1. No accessories. Go for it, champ.

I can backup on Neriel's claim on this one. Did it on the first try on prisoner mode, day 1 and without accessories. Possibly could've came down to RNG but I wouldn't know cause it was my first time attempting the bar fight on day 1. Take my word or don't, idc.

And about avoiding the Thugs.

Since when I started playing the game for the first time I've always avoided the inmates in the bar cause Karryn herself fucking said so when she enters the bar for the first time. In which at that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

 

[Sepheyer]

I can backup on Neriel's claim on this one. Did it on the first try on prisoner mode, day 1 and without accessories. Possibly could've came down to RNG but I wouldn't know cause it was my first time attempting the bar fight on day 1. Take my word or don't, idc.

And about avoiding the Thugs.

Since when I started playing the game for the first time I've always avoided the inmates in the bar cause Karryn herself fucking said so every time she enters the bar for the first time. In which that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

Thanks for the tip. I am one of those people on whom the option to pass through the bar was completely lost. I read the dialog, yet such nuance didnt register at all.

Welp, good to know.

Spoiler: Illustration

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[Neriel]

I dont want to crunch the actual numbers to prove it, but I assure you, maintaining a 15 order as of day 6 (until which point, youve only been selecting financial imrovements), with smart usage of control edicts earns you a massive net gain, as opposed to entering time limit control loss with combat edicts, having maintained ~60 order at that point (which is an overall severe loss in subsidiaries multiplier), so you can afford staying 4-5 extra days over me - again at a lower subsidiary multiplier - until you are forced out of the floor.

I would say more to almost 10 Extra Days with also almost 15 Extra Edicts. Also again. I only get Combat Edicts First Day. Not every Day.

 

[gzrtjhgtyhjljk]

I can backup on Neriel's claim on this one. Did it on the first try on prisoner mode, day 1 and without accessories. Possibly could've came down to RNG but I wouldn't know cause it was my first time attempting the bar fight on day 1. Take my word or don't, idc.

And about avoiding the Thugs.

Since when I started playing the game for the first time I've always avoided the inmates in the bar cause Karryn herself fucking said so every time she enters the bar for the first time. In which that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

I tested it as well. I bought the two edicts Neriel recommended, fought the two enemies on the way to the bar to level up a bit. I started the fight with no debuffs and level 3 character. The bar fight was 5 waves, with a total of 3 thugs. Karryn got knocked down several times, but there was no issue during the first 4 waves to use healing thoughts and revitalize. The fifth wave was the hardest. This thug knocked Karryn down several times and I had to use the two stances a bunch of times to get rid of the cooldown on revitalize. But in the end it wasn't that hard and I doubt that bad RNG will give you an unwinnable fight. I ended up with 30% pleasure and way more fatigue than Neriel.

One sidenote: not recommended for a serious playthrough because you take a massive load of fatigue.

 

[Nazzar]

I would say more to almost 10 Extra Days with also almost 15 Extra Edicts. Also again. I only get Combat Edicts First Day. Not every Day.

If you can afford going almost 10 extra days into the rapidly increasing control loss time limit, that means you went in with a greater order than ~60. Which snowballs into you having essentially no subsidiary income until that point.
Subsidiary increases arent flat numbers: the gain from going 75->50 order is proportionately far less than the one you get going 50->25. Your saving grace is having the extra edicts, but thats a questionable benefit with limited resources to spend them on.
The fact that i managed to maintain some infrastructure, *and* afford having both halberd tech trees maxed should serve as a point in favor of my method of financial management.

that very moment pretty much gives u the hint that enemy encounters r avoidable. Like seriously, how can plp be soo slow to catch on? Unless u completely skipped the dialogue then that's ur own damn fault.

...Whom are you even addressing? I hope its not me, as that'd mean you quoted that one paragraph out of context and read nothing before or beyond that.
Again:

I never fought the bar enemies in any of my games. Dont know why this became a narrative as i never once mentioned the bar.
More importantly, the game - in a very rare show of courtesy - actually *tells you* not to fight the bar when you first enter, so I wouldn't actually have grounds to say anything in the first place. The 2 thugs were located in the rooms above, part of a 3wave, using a basic prisoner sprite

I dont know why everyone keeps mentioning the bar fight, as i never once said "bar" in my initial run summary. The basis of the experiment was that no one intending a serious prisoner run - much less a challenge one - would ever fight the in the bar day1, assuming the more than likely failure there wouldnt be re-doable and youd have to finish the run as-is. And no one took that up. Instead everyone went for specific edicts and/or items targeted towards that particular fight and beelined for the bar, never intending to continue the game, which invalidates the whole premise.

 

[Sepheyer]

I'll almost feel guilty if i don't address at least some points in a 2-page debate for my benefit, so here goes:

It isn't. There is a difference between the crowds that look for saves and gallery - those are the ones who don't want to deal with gameplay, just look at the smut - and those that ask to cheat and edit. The latter clearly intends to play the game and not just watch pretty pictures, but cant deal with the egregiously antagonistic approach the game takes towards players.


Lets not sugarcoat it here: its not "some" information that's hidden. you're heavily downplaying it. The "tutorial" npc cover mostly basic stuff, nothing of substance. The useful things they are vague about and in 2 instances they outright lie to you.

Just some examples of vital information hidden: enemy stats, combat act order, actual numerical values for health, overblow protection breakpoints, basic damage estimates - like how the hell do i know the difference between slam and blunt attack's effectiveness?? Does cleave use different damage formula from slash? Does skewer have either higher or lower base chance to hit than thrust? Player is given nothing to make an informed decision about pretty much anything.

To say nothing of the extremely vague descriptions of edicts who express effects in arrows up or down, as opposed to anything you can clearly calculate or plan out. Just one example is "staff efficiency" - 0 explanation - its just there as a statistic. Riot chance arrow up/down? Well bully for me, that still does jack in helping me plan or calculate my odds. It resembles nothing close to how a proper risk management mechanic should be.

And do they say enemies level up for each riot that happens? I had to look at the code to learn that one. Thats just 1 example; most of the actually important stuff is only accessible if you scour the game files with a fine-tooth comb. All of this is on purpose. They even go the extra mile to design the game so that even if you simply defend yourself long enough, you will *still* turn out a massive whore. As i said before, they take the time to make fun of the player, saying that they are expected to repeatedly fail and game over, which goes way beyond an average metric of player antagonism.

And they know it. That is why their steam description of the game is so defensive: "the game is fairly unfair", my ass.


I'm gonna borrow the Elden Ring simile here to make a point. I'm not critiquing KP's difficulty. I'm saying that the game is hard for all the wrong reasons, hence why i said "poor design choices". Its hardships are tied to purposefully vague, timewasting and convoluted gameplay. Withholding information, forcing you to stumble blind, 1 failure at a time. And even if you fail, it does nothing to teach you what could've been done better. It just says "take whatever titles you got and try again".

KP is not difficult in the traditional sense of the word. Elden ring and Sekiro are difficult. I've finished Sekiro's mortal journey boss rush gauntlet. I know "difficult".
The fights are insane, their special moves come from every which way, can 1/2-shot you easily, have an excessively aggressive AI, demand split-second reaction time and a posture break mechanic that makes it unfavorable to the player to stall for time and turtle.

The great difference here and there is that no matter how stacked the odds, everything is dependent entirely on the player. All the game mechanics are laid bare and nothing is hidden. Its up to you to negotiate the difficulty through your own skill, reflexes and judgement. That i why there are videos of some maniacs who kill the last boss in FromSoftware games at level 1, with 0 equipment or upgrades. Because insanely difficult as it, success is still reliant solely on the player. THAT is what you can call "fairly unfair".
Can KP be finished without edicts and accessories? No. It intentionally denies player agency in what goes on inside the game.


Untrue. How many games posted in 07.2019 can boast 1284 pages? I'll tell you - not nearly close to that many. My speculation is that people are interested and *want* to play this, but they end up cutting their losses when they realize that learning the game will require them to live in its .js files for a couple of days first, break down and ask for cheats and edits or just quit instead. Like this person:

Or like me: I didnt feel gratification after finishing my plays. I felt like i spent far too much researching, learning and playing this, than I should've. For what it is, the artificially inflated learning curve required to play the game, siphoned far more time than is remotely reasonable.
Which, again, seems to support my initial argument.

Moving on to the thug thing:

And how is a new player supposed to know that?? Ok, you have that one npc that squats in the yard that warns about thugs. Big whoop - that does nothing to tell you how to avoid them. A metric for good game design is the ability to finish it successfully on your first attempt, with no prior knowledge, if you pay attention, manage your risks and make use of the various mechanics, tools and information made available to you.
How the hell is a player just starting the game supposed to know which packs have the gameover thugs in them? And not just walk straight out of the first 2 corridors of the game into a fight he cant possibly hope to win. More to the point - the sprites of the enemies have nothing to do with the actual enemies inside the fight. You can approach that goblin sprite and see 0 goblins. You can approach that prisoner sprite and eat 2 thugs.

Yet another example of a design choice that is purposefully vague and antagonistic towards the player. No experimentation or breathing room for failure allowed - take your rape scene and either try again, crippled with passives, which sets you up to fail later, but not before realizing that you are an inescapable downward spiral, several hours in.(word for word what the devs' cat actually tells you)
Or start over.

I have absolutely no idea what this sentence meant.
I made no absolute statements. I described my experience in an entirely neutral summary. And with regards to "playing to full potential" at the risk of sounding conceited, I'm fairly certain finishing 2 prisoner challenge runs puts me in the upper percentile of people playing this, meaning i *do* have an inkling of what i am talking about, so you shouldnt dismiss my views so entirely.


I never fought the bar enemies in any of my games. Dont know why this became a narrative as i never once mentioned the bar.
More importantly, the game - in a very rare show of courtesy - actually *tells you* not to fight the bar when you first enter, so I wouldn't actually have grounds to say anything in the first place. The 2 thugs were located in the rooms above, using a basic prisoner sprite, because , well, fuck me.


The "mathematical impossibility" i addressed was winning the fight that included two thugs+prisoner as its 2/3 wave. Again, not the bar. I was all of 5-6 level at the time with 0 accessories, and as stated in my summary, it was the absence of +10 accessories that made it hard.



You can beat the bar fight 1st day on Prisoner and no accessories?

Ok, I said how and why your magical, threading the razor's edge 19-29-39-49 Prisoner herobook, no losses, no halberd, armor or stat upgrades, all in one shot strains believability, and then i dropped it, but this one i will call you out on - you are full of it.
And im not talking about trying it until it eventually works out, no.
To fit with what you just implied, plus the espoused narrative from the herobook conversation, where you can calculate down to a hair's breadth all things RNG that may, could or will happen, you'll need to work beating the bar into an actual play you intend to finish. No re-tries, obv.
Your words: Prisoner. Day1. No accessories. Go for it, champ.

What a smooth writer. A pleasure to read such elegantly crafted sentences. Them fuckers are swaying like thicc mama's thighs, making the onlookers drool and their wives purple with raging rage.

 

[Neriel]

If you can afford going almost 10 extra days into the rapidly increasing control loss time limit, that means you went in with a greater order than ~60. Which snowballs into you having essentially no subsidiary income until that point.
Subsidiary increases arent flat numbers: the gain from going 75->50 order is proportionately far less than the one you get going 50->25. Your saving grace is having the extra edicts, but thats a questionable benefit with limited resources to spend them on.
The fact that i managed to maintain some infrastructure, *and* afford having both halberd tech trees maxed should serve as a point in favor of my method.

No, you just believe that it favors your method because you think, you have figured the game out. You don't even understand how my runs work very obviously. But keep judging.

I dont know why everyone keeps mentioning the bar fight, as i never once said "bar" in my initial run summary. The basis of the experiment was that no one intending a serious prisoner run - much less a challenge one - would ever fight the in the bar day1, assuming the more than likely failure there wouldnt be re-doable and youd have to finish the run as-is. And no one took that up. Instead everyone went for specific edicts and/or items targeted towards that particular fight and beelined for the bar, never intending to continue the game, which invalidates the whole premise.

Even if I would do it, how would I prove that exactly now? You would just be like "Mimimi I don't know if you fought Day 1 in Bar!" Or some other excuse. And the Bar thing brought the Person up, that was arguing with me. So ask them why they brought it up.

 

[Nazzar]

I am actually curious, because I like talking about strats so this is not meant in any disrespectful way

You expressed interest in discussing strategies, which i took on good faith and defended every point I made with actual arguments.

No, you just believe that it favors your method because you think, you have figured the game out. You don't even understand how my runs work very obviously. But keep judging.

Your response was one that essentially amounted to: "Thats not true and your thinking is wrong. [passive-aggressive addendum]."

...superb debate skills.

 

[NekoPi]

A sensible strategy and probably the only strategy that's close to being viable on day 1.

But I'm going to call bullshit too because you have 1 corruption. You only get corruption from buying accessories (which you can't because you don't have edict points left), from fighting the guards near the office (the chances of you having a nice rounded 900 gold in both screenshots after that fight are one in a billion) and certain edicts (which you can't buy because you have no points left). Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm pretty sure those are all the sources of corruption in the game.

Lmao u always start with 1 corruption

 

[Neriel]

You expressed interest in discussing strategies, which i took on good faith and defended every point I made with actual arguments.

Your response was one that essentially amounted to: "Thats not true and your thinking is wrong. [passive-aggressive addendum]."

...superb debate skills.

Oh yes if you would not say around every corner "my playstyle is the best" "yours is wrong" "that doesn't work" "the only way to play at start is this way" etc. I would not use that kinda language. What comes around goes around. Still like the fact the way you are playing. Since you came with that up yourself. Still you are a dick about it. So that is that.

 

[NekoPi]

On a side note...getting those rare trophy's!

 

[Assassin3]

...Whom are you even addressing? I hope its not me, as that'd mean you quoted that one paragraph out of context and read nothing before or beyond that.

About not getting the hint? Anybody in general. I was referring to the whole bunch of posts from before about avoiding the Thugs.

I dont know why everyone keeps mentioning the bar fight, as i never once said "bar" in my initial run summary. The basis of the experiment was that no one intending a serious prisoner run - much less a challenge one - would ever fight the in the bar day1, assuming the more than likely failure there wouldnt be re-doable and youd have to finish the run as-is. And no one took that up. Instead everyone went for specific edicts and/or items targeted towards that particular fight and beelined for the bar, never intending to continue the game, which invalidates the whole premise.

Care to do the honors and do it yourself then? As Neriel said, how can we prove it to u when we're just gonna be bluntly accused of lying? If u yourself won't even do it then u shouldn't have wasted time and brought this up in the first place.

 

[Sepheyer]

Oh yes if you would not say around every corner "my playstyle is the best" "yours is wrong" "that doesn't work" "the only way to play at start is this way" etc. I would not use that kinda language. What comes around goes around. Still like the fact the way you are playing. Since you came with that up yourself. Still you are a dick about it. So that is that.

This wins the argument, sir: "Still you are a dick about it." Well done!

You skillfully kept the opponent in the dark about your game prowess and debating skill, and saved it all for the last, killing blow. Well done again!

Thank you for not using it upfront, as it would have had deprived us of a great discussion. Then again, if you would have had opened up the discussion with "You are a dick " instead of reliably sealing the discussion thusly, I would have similarly congratulate you for bringing novelle and progressively urban forms to the table.

 

[Neriel]

This wins the argument, sir: "Still you are a dick about it." At least you saved it for the last, killing blow. Thank you for not using it upfront, as it would have had deprived us of a great discussion.

Thank you sir, that brings nothing to the discussion.

 

[Assassin3]

This wins the argument, sir: "Still you are a dick about it." Well done!

You skillfully kept the opponent in the dark about your game prowess and debating skill, and saved it all for the last, killing blow. Well done again!

Thank you for not using it upfront, as it would have had deprived us of a great discussion. Then again, if you would have had opened up the discussion with "You are a dick " instead of reliably sealing the discussion thusly, I would have similarly congratulate you for bringing novelle and progressively urban forms to the table.

This guy.

 

[Nazzar]

Care to do the honors and do it yourself then?

...why the hell would I? Lets take another look - possibly the first, as your case may be:

...Because no one in their right mind, intending to play normally would start their game buying items and skills specifically directed for the entirely inconsequential and optional event of fighting in the bar.

Just as you made clear to nobody specific that fighting in the bar is optional, so will i clarify to you - in particular - that i subscribe to the "in their right mind" portion of the aforementioned quote.

 

[DrakeWasHere2]

 

[Shimk]

I should add an edict named "you are a Dick" in the game, just to remind you how much pointless was this discussion XD

 

[Bummenphist]

Is there a way to mute the sound played when Karryn's orgasming? Not the moan but the sound effect (without muting all other sounds).

Edit : Ok I managed to do it myself.

I never turn the sound on in these games. It never adds enough to justify the annoyance for me.