VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.1] [Hreinn Games]

[souldead341]

Is that the only reason?

If I stretched your arm back, could you give any reasons you prefer one over the other?

I do wonder if KoD is scrutinized more on it's writing / artworking because there is literally nothing else to judge it on.

Oh, most of its gameplay is pretty shitty too. The problem is that so much of the gameplay has been abandoned for years. There's an ok to decent turn based combat systems, which I don't recall being used at all for like 3-4 years. Then there's the raiding system which was used for all of 1 (IIRC, maybe 2) update. The raiding system was just bad IMO, but again it's been left out of updates for years now.

Then there's the time based quests, which have 2 (that I remember) total events on it (saving the one orc from being executed in the beginning of the game and saving the merchant lady in the human town). I'm not generally a fan of those, but they can be fine if done well. I don't think either are done well in KoD, especially the merchant quest since SO many people ask how to not get the bad end.

Beyond that it is just a CHYOA / branching visual novel.

 

[DreamingAway]

Oh, most of its gameplay is pretty shitty too. The problem is that so much of the gameplay has been abandoned for years. There's an ok to decent turn based combat systems, which I don't recall being used at all for like 3-4 years. Then there's the raiding system which was used for all of 1 (IIRC, maybe 2) update. The raiding system was just bad IMO, but again it's been left out of updates for years now.

Then there's the time based quests, which have 2 (that I remember) total events on it (saving the one orc from being executed in the beginning of the game and saving the merchant lady in the human town). I'm not generally a fan of those, but they can be fine if done well. I don't think either are done well in KoD, especially the merchant quest since SO many people ask how to not get the bad end.

Beyond that it is just a CHYOA / branching visual novel.

All of these things feel 'tacked-on'.

The combat matters a lot.. then stops being used at all.
The raid system matters for a bit, then stops being used at all.
The Outfit system matters for a bit, then stops being used largely.
The mini-games are all ad-hoc one-offs. (Reconstruct a map.. once.. how long did it take for this to be implemented and never used again..?)

I'm not really a huge fan of "renpy gameplay" - I actually enjoy Noxian Nights a lot as a JRPG, I enjoyed leveling up and fighting the secret bosses.

 

[Lemix]

I only like rpgm when there is a heavy emphasis on fightning and leveling, otherwise its always a waste, like you take any rpgm corruption game in modern setting without combat and wonder why the fuck it is rpgm, you just waste your time walking from map to map searching for events, it was nice in noxian nights because you could fight and the map wasnt that big, but i generally prefer renpy.
I feel like it would work in this game just fine, maybe it would even help it(combat system is build in so you dont have to waste time on developing it), i havent played in a while but if combat that you learn at the beggining does not matter later that kinda lame, would be cool if dom solved problems with combat and you could train further while sub solved stuff with sex(or sex "dyplomacy" to lift you troops spirits or somethin), dropping your systems that you worked hard on for months is a bad look and shows lack of vision.
I dont even understand what so complex about this plot, you had like 3 potential warchiefs or something, make it so you seduce one and align with them(like 1 dom 1 sub and 1 neutral or something), then you do some "unite clans/different races that do not like humans" or something plot and then you go to war and win/lose, make like a common ending to the main plot and then expand from the middle into different routes/add endings and post endings.
Claire's Quest has the same problem(basically abandoned main plot for side stuff long ago), but atleast scenes and writing quality is consistently good and you know it will never drop.

 

[CourierNPC]

Why is it lazy?

What constructive criticisms have you raised?
(Is there a post that sums them up? If you already wrote this I don't expect you to write it again, you can just link it.. or point me to it.)

What do you mean every scene is a "rapefest" - how is that different from Noxian Night scenes when you take certain story routes?

What would you consider "back on track" ?

Note to mods: I merely giving an example. Not a promotion. If this is deemed as a sign of me promoting someone else's work, do let me know and I'll delete this reply myself.

Thank you for understanding.
Sincerely,
CourierNPC

Spoiler: If you prefer the long version

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

TL;DR:

What makes them lazy is that they didn't put in the effort to make the game enjoyable and went off-track for so long that they don't know what are they doing or what plans they've had in the long run, which contributes to the fact that most scenes nowadays is either hardest fucking with no context ever or, as some would say... "rapefest" or a combination of both that doesn't land anywhere.

I didn't last even a minute before it went limp because of the bad writing and the thought of "what the heck with this writing" suddenly popped up in my head

 

[CourierNPC]

I do wonder if KoD is scrutinized more on it's writing / artworking because there is literally nothing else to judge it on.

If your procrastinating-ass feel bad about yourself, this game has been in the works since 2017, and I got my degree just last month.

Says quite a lot about their progress, I'd say.

 

[BootLicking Appreciator]

Is that the only reason?

If I stretched your arm back, could you give any reasons you prefer one over the other?

I do wonder if KoD is scrutinized more on it's writing / artworking because there is literally nothing else to judge it on.

Noxian nights for me as the other person said just kinda felt super... Relaxing I guess. I get that it wasn't exactly a easy game but defeating a boss always made me feel nice. The combat system almost makes you forget it's a porn game lol. But that's about all the reasons I can think of, I don't really know much about these 2 programs, this one and renpy, although if NN didn't have bosses and fights it would definitely be way more boring and annoying to just walk around. Also I agree with the last part. They dumped many things in KOD after 2 patches but that's not something that hasn't been said many times before.

 

[DreamingAway]

Put this side-by-side with any of their recent releases, and you'll see what makes them lazy from the story's perspective. Meaning the former lead writer had a good idea of how to set up a scene and make them hotter with playful words and idioms and phrases or even sexual innuendos while the new writer, which is one of the current members of Hreinn Games, based off the writing from generic callsigns, shall we say (cum rag, whore, bitch, one of these words probably used quite a lot, too)

If the current writer is half-as-capable as their former writer, they would see the pictures Nomo sent and then try to craft/hone their inner creative writing by utilizing whatever they had on the picture itself, which also may contribute to the scene overall and your hard-on. Some jack off to writing, some jack off to pictures -- gotta balance both to get the best of both worlds.

Interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write all that.

Do you or anyone else know when Sierra left KoD and they officially stopped writing for the game?
I'd be interested in a more apples to apples comparison of early KoD writing vs late KoD writing.

(AKA - If I know when in the story they stopped writing I can go dig the dialogues out myself, maybe I'll just compare act 1 trial stuff to the last act released)

 

[CourierNPC]

Interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write all that.

Do you or anyone else know when Sierra left KoD and they officially stopped writing for the game?
I'd be interested in a more apples to apples comparison of early KoD writing vs late KoD writing.

(AKA - If I know when in the story they stopped writing I can go dig the dialogues out myself, maybe I'll just compare act 1 trial stuff to the last act released)

I mean, Sierra's departure marked the slow, painful downfall for KoD in general. First the writing went down the hill, then the art, now you'd be lucky not to get errors or game-breaking bugs down the line


And yes, everyone in this thread knew Sierra left. You could go back to page 300 and there'd be someone who mentioned Sierra at least once or twice. Or just use the search button and see how many Sierras were mentioned.

 

[DreamingAway]

I mean, Sierra's departure marked the slow, painful downfall for KoD in general. First the writing went down the hill, then the art, now you'd be lucky not to get errors or game-breaking bugs down the line


And yes, everyone in this thread knew Sierra left. You could go back to page 300 and there'd be someone who mentioned Sierra at least once or twice. Or just use the search button and see how many Sierras were mentioned.

That wasn't what I was asking..

When in KoD's story does the writing stop being Sierra's . Is it after the Cat girl raid, or after the war chief goes missing?

 

[Enigmanic]

That wasn't what I was asking..

When in KoD's story does the writing stop being Sierra's . Is it after the Cat girl raid, or after the war chief goes missing?

Iirc, it was just before the warchief went missing.

 

[CourierNPC]

That wasn't what I was asking..

When in KoD's story does the writing stop being Sierra's . Is it after the Cat girl raid, or after the war chief goes missing?

My mistake. Misunderstood the whole question.

But, yeah, since the Warchief goes missing and that was the mildest of the bunch, I'd say. The art is still decent but the writing has some noticeable downfalls and people getting skeptical about it if I remember correctly.

Or if you want a version build to make things easier, right after 0.8.3 or 0.9.3. Maybe from 0.9.3 onwards, since Sabia looked like half-anime half-Nomo-style when she got manhandled by Avion's ritual and cum drinking challenge at the Silvertusk

Art comparison:

Spoiler: Sabia up to 0.8.3

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Sabia transition from 0.8.3 to 0.9.3

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: What we got now (0.10.5+)

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

So, TL;DR

Sabia used to have smaller breasts and a rather toned body and after a few years of updates (and she's quite the killer as well, both looks and personality). Now, she got... shall we say, bimbofication, for lack of a better word to describe it. Shown by the bigger volume breasts and ass but rather... unenticing facial feature(s). The transition between 0.8.3 and 0.9.3 is still decent, albeit not in the same quality control as Sabia from before 0.9.3 or 0.10.5.

Dunno if Nomo remembers that Sabia got a tattoo on her arm depicting a skull of an Ox or something bovine, maybe a cow or bull.

 

[bitchass92]

Iirc, it was just before the warchief went missing.

Oof bud I'm pretty sure it's before that. Some current patrons ought to be able to see but I'm pretty certain it was pre warchief missing.

 

[Enigmanic]

Oof bud I'm pretty sure it's before that. Some current patrons ought to be able to see but I'm pretty certain it was pre warchief missing.

No, it was around the time of the catgirl raid or right after.

 

[CourierNPC]

Why she left?

All I can say is, to put it... uh... simply, Sierra left due to creative differences with the ones that run Hreinn now.

 

[DreamingAway]

CourierNPC - really good explanation and before / after comparison. Thanks for taking the effort & time.


Enigmanic - Got it.. so I should compare pre-cat girl raid to the latest quests to get a really good contrast in writing styles. Thanks!

 

[CourierNPC]

CourierNPC - really good explanation and before / after comparison. Thanks for taking the effort & time.


Enigmanic - Got it.. so I should compare pre-cat girl raid to the latest quests to get a really good contrast in writing styles. Thanks!

You're welcome

 

[Negativpro0]

All of these things feel 'tacked-on'.

The combat matters a lot.. then stops being used at all.
The raid system matters for a bit, then stops being used at all.
The Outfit system matters for a bit, then stops being used largely.
The mini-games are all ad-hoc one-offs. (Reconstruct a map.. once.. how long did it take for this to be implemented and never used again..?)

I'm not really a huge fan of "renpy gameplay" - I actually enjoy Noxian Nights a lot as a JRPG, I enjoyed leveling up and fighting the secret bosses.

I agree with this, i told them about this in their server while trying to give some constructive criticism. The potions crafting mechanic, the combat, the raiding, all were abandoned, they should have tried to keep them, use the assets for the game, or never try them in the first place, just a waste of work this way

 

[DreamingAway]

I agree with this, i told them about this in their server while trying to give some constructive criticism. The potions crafting mechanic, the combat, the raiding, all were abandoned, they should have tried to keep them, use the assets for the game, or never try them in the first place, just a waste of work this way

Oh, right, the crafting system.

All of these things feel like "need-to-haves" on a checklist vs being well integrated into the gameplay.

When I can buy 99% of everything I need next door from a cat waitress, what was the point?

The problem with endlessly tacking new one-offs like this is that it takes a lot of time. If these systems were modular and easily extendable, you could make them engaging and interesting with a lot less work from the developer.

EDIT

A developer should always try to maximize their ROI of [dev work] to [gameplay / content].
Probably this is something said 100 times in this thread already though.

 

[Ajajainu]

Any hero for the latest bonus extras?

I don't think we will have a hero this time

 

[Partyboy78]

Just throwing my hat into the ring for a second to agree with the past couple pages.

The story abandoning itself is a downturn along with ignoring the just mentioned mechanics, but I have played a couple other games that have that issue as well, so it doesn't bother me as my biggest gripe. But, the artwork comparison does, sadly, esp. with the orcs. The noticeable change in Sabia's physique is clear, but I'm disappointed in how the art has moved in sharp, crisp lines that make the characters look unappealing. I think it's most viewable in Sabia's hair or the orcs upper body where they look blocky instead of muscular. It certainly doesn't help that since this change in art, the scenes they've created with it are reused. This combination makes the newest updates feel lazy overall (the new Ylva scenes were actually alright, imo but that was it), but that's been a valid complaint for a long time now.

Pretty disappointing because I wasn't very keen on this game at first, but I've gone back and played through it a few times now. The JMod & additional scenes created for it through the community were great though they've unfortunately stopped as well but I guess that's to be expected when the developer barely updates the game for the community to even expand upon.