You guys are expecting it to come out this century?
- Jan 2, 2020
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what is a kike? As for slurs,it didnt involve any,in fact it was quite short in which i didnt recommend it to others and thats it.
This is a site for pirating PORN games out of all things and they cant bother to tolerate a 1 start review? Or "hate speech" just say something that they dont like and boom its gone, f em sjws,Gobbels would be proud.
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I mean half life 3 and victoria 3 came out so,yes i fully expect it to come out this century unless the devs are full of shit.
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What can you expect? Their target "audience" is a bunch of horny bois who may or not be in school still or college,this gives them alot of free time and money. In their mind paying 5$ or more montly ain't a problem no matter if they get something or not,add to this their tactics to keep them hooked like "updates",pictures,etc and they are just about doing the same thing as alot of "devs" in this bussnice.
I will never understand why people pay some total strangers,which they have no way of holding accountable or any guarantee that they will get a finished game or atleast their money back, to make a "game" that usually boils down to a visual novel with some extra steps.
ehhh you're on the way to figuiring out what kike means eventually
- Jul 28, 2017
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There are at least two rational ways of thinking behind supporting a patreon. The most obvious one is to just get access to a content. In this case it's the best idea to either pay when the content is posted or when the patron wants to get access in general. For example if an artist posts packs each month, but someone is fine with waiting for half a year to gather up more in one go, then that also belongs into this group.
Another one is if the patron just has the intention to keep an artist/project/dev team going. You can say that this isn't something that you would do and it certainly plays into the general problems of the patreon system. But before you just mark it down as a bad practice, just answer one question to yourself: out of the games featured on this site how many do you think would still exist if the only way people supported them was a fixed price at the full release?
- Nov 3, 2019
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It's because some devs consistently release updates every month, and have never missed a deadline except to take a pre-planned one-month vacation once a year (which they clearly communicate with their patrons).
I get it, most devs aren't like this. Hreinn Games is definitely a poor communicator with a poor work ethic, which doesn't justify paying them. But don't forget there are devs out there who are excellent.
Also, don't look down on visual novels. Trying to write a good story, consistently, is extremely hard. Again, I don't think the writing in Hreinn Games is all that stellar, so I get where you're coming from, but some devs genuinely have good writing that is worth paying for.
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I suppose less than now but is it really worth the risk to get scammed? How many games on this site are abandonned DESPITE having a patreon? I've seen plenty of examples.
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Might be but my main problem with them is that they are disgusting people,milking a game since 2017 without getting even close to the end,poor communication,2 of my comments were removed bc of "off topic" despite them beign on topic but were too much for some ultra-sensitive a$$hole.It's because some devs consistently release updates every month, and have never missed a deadline except to take a pre-planned one-month vacation once a year (which they clearly communicate with their patrons).
I get it, most devs aren't like this. Hreinn Games is definitely a poor communicator with a poor work ethic, which doesn't justify paying them. But don't forget there are devs out there who are excellent.
Also, don't look down on visual novels. Trying to write a good story, consistently, is extremely hard. Again, I don't think the writing in Hreinn Games is all that stellar, so I get where you're coming from, but some devs genuinely have good writing that is worth paying for.
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Again, I'm not defending Hreinn Games. I'm just advising caution against labeling all patreon game devs as assholes, because although most are, there are some exceptions.
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Did i say all? I say most are which makes it not worth to look for those few who aren't. If they are serious about making games then they should have no problem waiting for full realease price. Might be to you that having as many people make games through patreon be a good idea but its not really,in addition to scamm the volume of bad quality games is quite high,thats why RPG maker has such bad rep despite some games beign very good in it,ex: MGQ paradoxAgain, I'm not defending Hreinn Games. I'm just advising caution against labeling all patreon game devs as assholes, because although most are, there are some exceptions.
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That's not the devs though, devs are not the ones that own this thread even, it's forum moderators that think it's probably WAY too much whining for whining sake on square meter, so they decided to delete it.
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I know,thats why i said "some" and not dev but you didnt take your time to read it did you? As for whining there wasnt any,if by whining you mean questioning the dev's lack of progress in 4 years then yes. Censorship is bad no matter the context.
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I mean, you do see how your sentence looks like? I just thought maybe you mistook mods' actions for developers... am i insane to think that....?
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Well, your question consists of many parts being rolled into one, so i'll just go with it one step at a time.
Is it worth it? I don't know, ask each and every single person individually who supports something on any crowdfunding. I'm sure you will get dozens of different answers ranging from absolutely yes to absolutely no. The worth and value of their money is determined by them in the end.
Getting scammed. Without question we could name a lot of games and projects that were just flat out scams from the start or turned into one. But since we are in this thread, let's bring this a bit closer to home. This game has over 110 entries in the gallery section with 45+ completely unique scenes (eg. every single variant of the tent scenes counted as one, sketches, groping and artless interactions not included). There are full, finished games that are a lot smaller than this one.
If you look at it from this perspective, then supporting Hreinn gives you more content for your money than 5-6 small finished games combined.
I'll agree that it is especially important for story and character driven games like KoD to reach a satisfying ending, but if you are just looking at it from the perspective of raw content/money percentage then there are way worse investments than this one.
I've also seen a lot of people using the term "scam" basically for "not getting exactly what i want", even tho the correct term for that is literally just "risk". "Risk" also involves the chance of not getting anything for your investment.
The patreon model has a lot of problems, we could spend days discussing them all and i'm sure we would agree on almost every one of them too. But for now i'll just comment on one of your other posts too if you don't mind.
"If they are serious about making games then they should have no problem waiting for full realease price."
Passion doesn't pay rent and bills and doesn't buy food.
Hreinn's first game took 2 years to finish. Should Noxian Nights not exist simply because Nomo and Sierra weren't rich enough to go without getting paid for 2 years? I think i understand what you were suggesting there, but this statement as it stands is flat out wrong and there is no way around it.
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As you've said,one thing at a time.
Fair enough
Might be a personal preference but if a game,no matter how small or big is abandoned (not that it doesnt reach a satisfying end) then its pointless and worthless,why? Because a story is about progression,the whole game is a massive hype up to a probably expected outcome,if you stop before you even get a glimpse of that then what is the point? Excuse the example but its like a prostitute giving a bj to a man and leaving him before he has a orgasm,does that man think his money was spent well? Then there's also other factors to take into consideration,they could leave sooner than close to the end and leave big holes in the story,they by taking the money of their patreons pledge to deliver something complete and lets not forget that abandoning a game is a huge middle finger to your patreons and community.
Im not sure if your talking generally or about me but i didnt use the word scam as in "i dont get what i want",its literrary a scam because some barely make any progress,to be more on point lets talking about KoD which didnt have a update in a while and from what their patreons say they have been milking this cow dead and if they keep this up + lack of communication then you might aswell consider it a scam because they are probably working on another game or something in real life,they are only making enough to keep the cash flowing. As one pointed out on the thread,the game was started in 2017 and they have failed to finish it,despite there being larger projects with fewer people who managed.
You misunderstood what i meant,if they are serious about making a game then they should already have a job and ONLY quit it if things get stable enough to live off games NOT start making games without a job,That is plain stupid and reckless.
You dont have to be rich to pay the bills and buy food,if they didnt have a stable situation then they should find a job and do games later as most people are doing.Lets face the truth,patreon is not a full time job and you cant depend on people to pay your food and rent without having something to show for,that is lazy and wrong and has no way around it.
I think there is a point to be made for philosophies like "enjoy it while it lasts" or "the journey is as important as the destination", but in general i agree with you on the first part. As you said, even if the money that has been sunk by a patron can be rationalised or justified, abandoned projects also tend to leave a lot of bitterness and resentment and that is not something people want for their money.
Your second paragraph is the mixed part now, and before anything else, i'll ask you to please clarify something to me, because there seems to be a bit of contradiction among the things you wrote.
I know i'm grabbing the first part out of context at this point, but in the same post you do argue that working on something else contributes to the classification as a scam and that not working on something else unless the patreon income is stable enough is stupid.
I mostly agree with the reasons you listed along with this quoted ones, except for the classification of milking and scam. Scamming would require a malicious intent and i've yet to see anyone who can back that claim up. The question of milking is trickier. As i see it, basically all their faults can be marked down as a lack of exoertise on a field. Hreinn has an artist, a programmer and a writer, but no manager and nobody who is good at honest PR. As the example shows, those are very important jobs even on this indie level. In the case of any project that works better, someone on the team can handle multiple roles. For example Sierra was not just the writer but also the PR behind the first game and the difference in communication is the most visible part of her absence.
You might want to consider a few things in this matter.
As i've mentioned, Noxian Nights took 2 years to be made and while i think that's an awesome game, it has a way smaller scope than KoD. Full linear story, no choices until the very end, small scale art without backgrounds, very few characters. These are not bad things, but KoD aimed to change these and while i also think that Hreinn bit more than they can chew, it can't be realistically expected to be finished in a similar time frame.
And the larger project with fewer people mentioned was Valheim. Just a quick look at their wiki page shows that this example is false. Valheim's development also started in 2017, but it had a bit of exisiting foundation as the head of the game has worked on his side project along with his regular job for a while. The team also had 5 experienced developers, not 2 and later 3 like Hreinn does (with only one programmer). Valheim is also a literal one in a million project. You can probably count on your hand the number of times a game by 5 devs sold 5 million copies.