VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[Jinsoyun]

Anybody know why the art seems to be progressively getting worse every update? It's not like the first couple of chapters this game had anymore. My theory is the artist must've quit or retired, thus they had to get a another one, similar to the original art style sure, but ultimately worse. Any idea if we will ever revert to the old, and much better art style?

The artist is the same: Nomo. He is the one who comes up with the story and character designs too, by the way.
The change in the art came from a plan to make simplified, easy to mod pictures to be used in various smaller scenes. It took them quite a long time to get the assets drawn, but in theory the new art will be full quality again and the weaker ones are used as flavor illustration.

 

[Anmitsu]

Lol you said it, but don't give anyone ideas about breaking a record, as we'll be waiting for months to come! The current longest gap between releases stands at 9 months either between 0.9.3>0.10.8, 0.10.5>0.11.2 or 0.11.2>0.12.4, depending on how you wanna count it. To be fair, these 9mo gaps included the outbreak of this current global pandemic, which majorly fucked up alot of stuff across plenty of lives, jobs, and content creation as people figured out new work styles and navigated family tragedies, but 9 months still stands the grandest wait and the current norm across the most recent version releases. So for anyone holding their nut or their breath, we've got about 3 more months of holding tight if this trend is anything to go by.

For anyone who wants the record of the gaps, I've listed them below. I used public release as my reference points, as the early release versions for patrons have become increasingly buggy as time goes on, sometimes necessitating a wait until lower tier patron or public versions drop with ironed out glitches in order to experience the new content:

1. Update 0.1.2: June 01, 2017
2. Update 0.2.2: August 03, 2017 wait time ~2months
3. Update 0.3.3: October 14, 2017 wait time ~2months
4. Update 0.4.2: January 26, 2018 wait time ~3months
5. Update 0.5.2: May 30, 2018 wait time ~5months
6. Update 0.6.4: September 23, 2018 wait time ~4months
7. Sierra Lee's Departure announced: December 30, 2018. The post tells that Sierra left "a few months ago, just before the end of the last update" aka the last update with Sierra's work in it was v0.6. I list this here bc notably, content differences aside, Sierra's departure seems to have made no direct impact on release dates for the next several versions
8. Update 0.7.3: January 6, 2019 wait time ~4months
9. Update 0.8.3: April 17, 2019 wait time ~4months
10. Update 0.9.3: September 30, 2019 wait time ~5months
11. Update 0.10.5: March 15, 2020 wait time ~6months
12. Update 0.10.8: July 3, 2020, it's worth noting that this version update came out, adding some stuff and bugfixes, notably a missing scene that didn't make it into 10.5 upon release. Depending on how exacting one would like to be, this could be billed as the true&complete v0.10 release, which would make the v0.10 wait time 9months if counted from 0.9.3 > 0.10.8
13. Update 0.11.2: December 15, 2020 wait time ~9months (I'm counting from 10.5)
14. Update 0.12.4: September 14, 2021 wait time ~9months
15. Update 0.13.??: TBD, wait time at least 6months and counting

And this is exactly what I was reffering to.
Even since as long ago as 2018 every next update seems to take them longer to release than a previous one. Will they do a c-c-c-combo breaker this time and actually release faster than a time it takes pregnant woman?
I don't think so.

 

[Yukariin]

last update 6 months ago, as far as im concerned this can be considered abandoned.

 

[Jinsoyun]

I think the first few releases were deceptively (badum-tsh) fast. 2 and 3 months sound really nice, but at the time of the first patreon release, NN's final patch has been out for at least 8 months, so Hreinn had a good amount of prep time. If i remember correctly, Ylva was the first new character who's model was drawn after the 0.1 release, back in

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. Up to that point they already had all their art assets, their basic mechanics like stats and combat and a lot of other things prepared in advance, so they mostly "just" needed the art for the scenes and the writing.

0.5 brought the raiding, the first new mechanic since the release, so that delay shows with it's 5 months.

Based on this, if we add a few months of correction to the first few releases due to the added prep time they could ride, it seems to me that 4 months per update is the consistent time for this game. (as i wrote in my last prediction post)

New art assets and game mechanics always seem to go on top of this 4 month cycle, like the +1/+2 month for the raiding in 0.5, the human towns and NPCs in 0.10 and so on. Currently it seems like the repeatable scenes are proven to be a challenge both in terms of mechanics and assets, so a lot of the current delays might come from those.

However.

More than doubling the length of the patch cycle should not be treated as the new norm, even if one by one there was some kind of reason behind it. It's just not a good idea.
And if a random idiot on a forum, like me without any knowledge of writing, drawing or developing can clearly see and point out this pattern then the developers should be aware of it too.

It's a matter of fact that implementing new things will take time and unfortunately personal problems and tragedies inevitably happen too. And this game will still need new assets without doubt: more human stuff as we get closer to Sabia's family, elves or shamans if we explore the area / back stories a bit more, clothing and a lot more if the current several dozens of set ups are to be followed up.

The devs must know this and they need to make preparations and adjust their communication for their own good too.

Personally i still think that Hreinn would benefit from a "clean" patch next, once the current repeatable scenes are sorted out. No new mechanics, no new major asset batch, just a good old fashioned 4 month update without extra delays. Just to show their patrons and us that they can do it and 9 months won't be treated as the norm.


oshkoshdorosh :Thanks for the list, it's nice to see it with a good format.

 

[sigmazx]

What im asking is probably a foregone conclusion, but ill try anyway:

Im trying to run a pure playthrough - i.e. no dick penetration, and it was going well until i got forced into a scene near the end, as ba'ashi alongside Bris.
That came completely out of the blue, as the game's choices until this point allowed me to opt out or prevent these situations, but this seems like an unskippable story event, which is jarring, since all this time, Sabia has been treating the orcs with what would be most accurately described as barely concealed contempt.
So did i miss something somewhere? Is this at all avoidable?

Same here.

Just finished my playthrough and was shocked by this.

I guess a virgin run is impossible?

 

[haru4am]

anyone got a full save the can share?

 

[Enigmanic]

Same here.

Just finished my playthrough and was shocked by this.

I guess a virgin run is impossible?

Technically it should be possible if (back when you finished the catgirl raids) you chose to let the catgirls go.
That is, unless Nomo and Monsinne decided to write themselves into a corner.

 

[sigmazx]

Technically it should be possible if (back when you finished the catgirl raids) you chose to let the catgirls go.
That is, unless Nomo and Monsinne decided to write themselves into a corner.

I did let the catgirls go but once you reach the latest update, Sabia is suddenly more "open" even when my choices are all dominant and never accepted lewd stuff.

It's just weird. Is it because of the change in writer?

 

[Joe9ty]

I did let the catgirls go but once you reach the latest update, Sabia is suddenly more "open" even when my choices are all dominant and never accepted lewd stuff.

It's just weird. Is it because of the change in writer?

I don't really follow much of the points raised here or others referenced by you to be honest. The notion that you must be able to complete a non sex play through of KoD seems arbitary and somewhat strange. Sure, if Sabia was to live out her life a thousand times in the Orc camp she might be able to get a few runs where the desire/demand for sex is avoidable but given that there are a finite amount of paths you can write in any game like this, why write one where Sabia manages to blue ball everyone?

Equally assumptions over the Kira bad end are exactly that, assumptions. Neve's character for me is still something of a mystery and she is someone I do not trust entirely. Sure, up until now she has proven a strong ally to Sabia, but the full motivation for her being in the Orc camp or for helping Sabia haven't been bottomed out and I think a twist in that tale may well be in the plans. Indeed the lack of concern following the Kira bad end may be a sneek clue to that, as yet unrevealed agenda.

For clarity, I didn't really like the Kira bad end. It was unforeseen by me, but Kira herself is the embodiment of unpredictability and maybe she thinks Sabia being her fuckslut for the rest of her days is her being useful. Besides, death by misadventure can happen in sex games too you know!

 

[sigmazx]

I don't really follow much of the points raised here or others referenced by you to be honest. The notion that you must be able to complete a non sex play through of KoD seems arbitary and somewhat strange. Sure, if Sabia was to live out her life a thousand times in the Orc camp she might be able to get a few runs where the desire/demand for sex is avoidable but given that there are a finite amount of paths you can write in any game like this, why write one where Sabia manages to blue ball everyone?

Equally assumptions over the Kira bad end are exactly that, assumptions. Neve's character for me is still something of a mystery and she is someone I do not trust entirely. Sure, up until now she has proven a strong ally to Sabia, but the full motivation for her being in the Orc camp or for helping Sabia haven't been bottomed out and I think a twist in that tale may well be in the plans. Indeed the lack of concern following the Kira bad end may be a sneek clue to that, as yet unrevealed agenda.

For clarity, I didn't really like the Kira bad end. It was unforeseen by me, but Kira herself is the embodiment of unpredictability and maybe she thinks Sabia being her fuckslut for the rest of her days is her being useful. Besides, death by misadventure can happen in sex games too you know!

I don't mind the Kira stuff. She's crazy so I was expecting it.

But till now the game was consistent with choices and everything, you know? Now I feel like Sabia is on auto mode. Doing whatever.

Maybe it's silly of me but I was happy to do a virgin run because I love the "temptations" mind games and the challenge.

 

[Joe9ty]

I don't mind the Kira stuff. She's crazy so I was expecting it.

But till now the game was consistent with choices and everything, you know? Now I feel like Sabia is on auto mode. Doing whatever.

Maybe it's silly of me but I was happy to do a virgin run because I love the "temptations" mind games and the challenge.

Well for what it's worth, I think managing to get Sabia to navigate a virgin route for so long is very good going!

I love this game, probably my favourite game as a concept, but I do think the dev team are struggling tbh. I would love someone like Dr Pinkcake or Mutt & Jeff (who are creating Pale Carnations) to take this project on and see what they could do with it.

My biggest issue is that the sub route (which should be the most fun) just feels like a long bad end right now and I'm guessing that is where you see the 'auto mode' Sabia being most evident.

I would love to see the sub story-line re written or an additional path added that allows Sabia to be submissive but at the same time manipulative, being used but at the same time working towards her own goals.

Nomo deserves immense credit for taking the game as far as he has but it feels like he needs help, I hope he gets it because this game could be and should be a masterpiece.

 

[oshkoshdorosh]

Well call me an April fool, but there's rumblings in the discord. Apparently the artist is sending the coder CG image layers to be coded into the game, so maybe that's signs of an update soon™?

Spoiler: April foolishness?

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[AlienBreeder]

I saw that myself and wondered if an update might be near, though haven't asked as they may be angling for a 'first of the month' release. I myself am foreign and it's already April the second, so I'll give it a few days before inquiring on discord.

 

[Jinsoyun]

Well call me an April fool, but there's rumblings in the discord. Apparently the artist is sending the coder CG image layers to be coded into the game, so maybe that's signs of an update soon™?

Spoiler: April foolishness?

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That's nice to hear either way. And Sabia seems to be working again, at least in part time, which is always great.

I'm on the side of cautious optimism here: the coding probably still needs to be done, then Hreinn usually writes a patreon post about the update drawing near and they take a week or two for bug testing in most cases.

But it was mentioned that this was the last set that needed to be added to the patch, so at least there is hope.

 

[Brother Penetrātus]

That's nice to hear either way. And Sabia seems to be working again, at least in part time, which is always great.

I'm on the side of cautious optimism here: the coding probably still needs to be done, then Hreinn usually writes a patreon post about the update drawing near and they take a week or two for bug testing in most cases.

But it was mentioned that this was the last set that needed to be added to the patch, so at least there is hope.

As long as anything don't happen, like an earthquake, an alien invasion or the grandma of the coder dies... Just like the previous updates.

 

[Joe9ty]

Well call me an April fool, but there's rumblings in the discord. Apparently the artist is sending the coder CG image layers to be coded into the game, so maybe that's signs of an update soon™?

Spoiler: April foolishness?

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There's something very very special about a pic of Sabia getting groped. Put simply, it makes me happy. Artwork looks on the money, hope that bodes well for the next update.

 

[Karminator]

There's something very very special about a pic of Sabia getting groped. Put simply, it makes me happy. Artwork looks on the money, hope that bodes well for the next update.

Since they are going to be only 2 paths , this is definitely sub path

 

[Decathect]

I don't mind the Kira stuff. She's crazy so I was expecting it.

No, no, no, thats just the lazy justification a talentless hack would use to explain someone acting out of character: "they are crazy so anything goes".
Its insulting to the intelligence of the audience and the only thing making it worse is when said audience parrots that bullshit excuse.

More to the point, the person in question is in a position of leadership. You dont get or hold onto that by being batshit insane and being randomly counterproductive all the time.
There is always a method to the madness, thats what makes such characters interesting.
And this is where they drop the ball. There is no valid reason for the player to suspect that accepting Kira's invitation would result in a gameover. The premise is "be useful or begone", and as i stated earlier, its not followed because of halfassed lazy writing.

You wana know just how lazy; kira killing sabia after the successful mission simply throws you on the same sequence as failing the tests.
Not a single line indicating that she'd gone back on her word and killed off a promising recruit - who had the backing of someone whose word she trusts - on a whim just to get her rocks off that one time. That whole sentence doesnt even hit the marks for "crazy". Only "stupid".

"she is crazy so its ok" is the insultingly incompetent reasoning of a two-bit amateur, and only a chump would accept it as good writing.

snip

Considering the events that take place prior, like her trusting you with the secret to her armor: suggesting Neve knowingly allowed your fate for some heretofore unknown grand design is just reaching. Youd also have to explain why would she bother with Sabia at all if whatever her agenda is can afford her being killed off out of hand without the plan being inconvenienced in the slightest.
Or you are just a contrarian, playing devil's advocate out of boredom.

 

[Joe9ty]

No, no, no, thats just the lazy justification a talentless hack would use to explain someone acting out of character: "they are crazy so anything goes".
Its insulting to the intelligence of the audience and the only thing making it worse is when said audience parrots that bullshit excuse.

More to the point, the person in question is in a position of leadership. You dont get or hold onto that by being batshit insane and being randomly counterproductive all the time.
There is always a method to the madness, thats what makes such characters interesting.
And this is where they drop the ball. There is no valid reason for the player to suspect that accepting Kira's invitation would result in a gameover. The premise is "be useful or begone", and as i stated earlier, its not followed because of halfassed lazy writing.

You wana know just how lazy; kira killing sabia after the successful mission simply throws you on the same sequence as failing the tests.
Not a single line indicating that she'd gone back on her word and killed off a promising recruit - who had the backing of someone whose word she trusts - on a whim just to get her rocks off that one time. That whole sentence doesnt even hit the marks for "crazy". Only "stupid".

"she is crazy so its ok" is the insultingly incompetent reasoning of a two-bit amateur, and only a chump would accept it as good writing.



Considering the events that take place prior, like her trusting you with the secret to her armor: suggesting Neve knowingly allowed your fate for some heretofore unknown grand design is just reaching. Youd also have to explain why would she bother with Sabia at all if whatever her agenda is can afford her being killed off out of hand without the plan being inconvenienced in the slightest.
Or you are just a contrarian, playing devil's advocate out of boredom.

I had to chuckle at your comments, take a chill pill mate.... might do you some good. Lots of misplaced anger in there which may be due to your frustration at the lack of progress in the game, I don't know???. I didn't say that Neve had an unknown grand design, simply that I haven't made up my mind about her motives and making assumptions that she would act in a particular way and presenting that is evidence of poor writing isn't necessarily correct. Yeah she tells us about the shiny magic armour, not exactly revealing an achillies heal with that one is she?

We clearly see the game differently and probably life in all probability. This is a fantasy game where the unexpected can and often does happen, films, tv shows and games both adult and mainstream thrive on twists.

If you have Neve as a nailed on good guy, then fine. Me, I'm not 100% and I do think there is a twist still to come (No doubt that means I have trust issues or suffer from paranoid delusions in your world). Whether or not that manifests in a malicious way, again I don't know, but there are other prominent characters I trust far more than Neve from Sabia's perspective.

In terms of Neve's agenda,I'm not quite sure why you think I would have to explain that to you. The full plot has not been revealed to us as yet and my opinion on the game will probably change a number of times before the full plot is known. If you feel the need to nail your colours to the mast on every issue, good luck. I tend to be a little more flexible in my opinion and on what the potential possibilities are and explanations for them.

Yours

Satan's Lawyer
(currently out of work)

 

[bitchass92]

No, no, no, thats just the lazy justification a talentless hack would use to explain someone acting out of character: "they are crazy so anything goes".
Its insulting to the intelligence of the audience and the only thing making it worse is when said audience parrots that bullshit excuse.

More to the point, the person in question is in a position of leadership. You dont get or hold onto that by being batshit insane and being randomly counterproductive all the time.
There is always a method to the madness, thats what makes such characters interesting.
And this is where they drop the ball. There is no valid reason for the player to suspect that accepting Kira's invitation would result in a gameover. The premise is "be useful or begone", and as i stated earlier, its not followed because of halfassed lazy writing.

You wana know just how lazy; kira killing sabia after the successful mission simply throws you on the same sequence as failing the tests.
Not a single line indicating that she'd gone back on her word and killed off a promising recruit - who had the backing of someone whose word she trusts - on a whim just to get her rocks off that one time. That whole sentence doesnt even hit the marks for "crazy". Only "stupid".

"she is crazy so its ok" is the insultingly incompetent reasoning of a two-bit amateur, and only a chump would accept it as good writing.



Considering the events that take place prior, like her trusting you with the secret to her armor: suggesting Neve knowingly allowed your fate for some heretofore unknown grand design is just reaching. Youd also have to explain why would she bother with Sabia at all if whatever her agenda is can afford her being killed off out of hand without the plan being inconvenienced in the slightest.
Or you are just a contrarian, playing devil's advocate out of boredom.

Bro, is this a sex game or a fucking novel.
I get it the original premise was supposed to be a little bit more lore heavy and a deep, rich world

But that shit was out the window well before Kira showed up.

Also, I mean, the fuck do you really know about Kira? She's a renegade.

Bad ends also are probably not "canon" so who really gives a fuck. I mean, besides you.