VN Ren'Py Abandoned Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[saint751]

You misunderstood me. Bris actually taking over the tents for a prolonged time makes no sense. The captains or even the shaman would stop it anyway. What i can agree with is Bris TRYING to take over the tents. She was the leader of their caravan after all and her trying to take back control or even escaping with her team after months of being used is logical.

This is one of the scenarios where i much prefer the dom route. There Sabia shuts down Bris' attempt very quickly but she still joins in some of the scenes because she gets horny and wants to have fun. My suggestions to add a few lines follow a similar idea. I don't think that the devs will rewrite half of the last patch in order to get things to make more sense so we are stuck with this scenario.

But if we already are here, then just saying that Sabia knows how she could stop Bris, but she DECIDES not to do so for now either because she is curious or just because she enjoys an excuse for sub sex, could make more sense and open up options for sex scenes as well.

I'm not saying that Bris should run the tents, in fact i've stated the exact opposite in most of my posts since the update. I think Sabia should find a way to take back the tents as soon as possible and even in the current version she shouldn't have lost it like this.

By the way, i don't think Neve would bother running the tents since it could be time consuming and Vehlis would probably do it through a proxy just like she does through Sabia, so that was well written at least.

p.s.: aside from Sabia, Neve is the best girl.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

The devs have gotten the wrong idea, in that they seem to think that every single scenario needs a SUB and a DOM alternative. I really disagree with that decision. The point of this allignment system wasn't to change the flavour text in some areas, but to present some alternate scenarios that are tailored to a submissive or a dominant Sabia. The whole matter with Bris is clearly a DOM event with a sloppy, barely credible SUB rewrite, that all but breaks the suspension of disbelief for the player.
There are scenarios that can be approached from a DOM or a SUB pov and probably have to, in order for the story not to balloon out of control. This wasn't one of them.

I dislike stories where the main character is this completely passiv moron, being thrown about by the whims of fate. And that's what SUB Sabia has turned into. I already sperged about how the sub route could still involve Sabia getting her way, by manipulating the people that think they got her under their thumb. But that necessitates smarter writing and scenes that actually cater to the idea of DECEPTION in a game called "Kingdom of Deception".
Hreinn clearly want to make their updates look a little bigger by putting a variant of every scene in every route. But speaking as someone who can maintain two save files: I'd rather have fewer scenes with more care and thought put into them. If this trend continues I don't even see a point in keeping up with the SUB route.

 

[nyqz]

IMO one of the biggest problems with the sub route is that Sabia just doesn't seem to enjoy sex very much, every single scene she needs to be forced into. Sub doesn't mean they're always unwilling, and it makes a lot of the dom scenes much more interesting to play. If anything sub Sabia should be more willing to proactively use sex as one of her tools, since it's one of her main ways of not ending up in open conflict with people and one of the areas where her character could still have some agency.

And finally on my list on repeated ideas for repeated scenes.. Sabia on the sub route should turn the power play with Bris into a contest of sexual prowess. A "fuck off" if you don't mind the pun. Basically after another scene where Bris orders the guards to humiliate Sabia again, Sabia could get up, tired and messy and say something along the lines of "OK, let's be real. We will do this again one way or another, but if you guys rejoin my team, then you can have Bris as a bonus too". After this it's up to the imagination, but i can think of a few directions for when two experienced women try to convince two increasingly smug orcs to help them instead of the other. Just saying.

This would be an amazing scene. I also think your ideas about her having regular sex friends around the camp + repeatable scenes with the captains would be really good. There's already enough side characters for this. You could also have small elements of the dialog/behavior change after major quests so we get a feel for how her character is changing too.

 

[hakarlman]

All this talk of Sabia/Bris tent plot meanwhile I just want to see some Sabia x Bris lesdom scenes lol. Some repeatable lesbian scenes would be amazing as well.

Whose the dom? Sabia or Bris? If Bris is the dom, what part of the writing makes her dominant for you? Just curious.

If Sabia is dominant, and bris the sub, that makes sense and fits with the story, no matter if Sabia is dom or sub in game, because she's established herself in a position of power over Bris no matter what.

 

[Joe9ty]

I think the Bris dom route is a credible storyline, I just don't think it's a particularly fun one. Bris was caravan leader and in blackmailing Sabia, Bris gets to enjoy the power and influence Sabia has. Sabia goes along with it because she sees her situation as hopeless or too precarious to risk being exposed so goes along with it until she can come up with an escape strategy, that's what generally happens in blackmail situations and in this respect the story is credible. However everything just happens to Sabia, rather than her influencing it. In this respect I wonder if those of us who dislike the sub route have conflated submission with manipulation.

I would much prefer the sub route was one where Sabia harnesses powe through the manipulation of others. She is controlled and at times required to do things she otherwise wouldn't or wouldn't want to but in her mind it is worth it to get access to the power of the person who is 'dominating' her. That sounds to me like a very fun and enjoyable storyline, the problem is that it is more likely to take Sabia in a completely different direction from her Dom route, meaning artwork and even the characters she interacts with most often are completely different.

Going back to my point about confusing submission with manipulation. If the sub route is simply a long bad end and a route to ultimate failure then it has been 'successful', but for me it's not a huge amount of fun and in that respect the effort the devs have put into it has been wasted on me. If there were to be a middle route where Sabia takes on a manipulator and seemingly submissive role but actually is working those who seek to exploit her from the back with the end game her progression within the camp and a return to some sort of status then that would work. Yes, I want to see her getting fucked and controlled by Orcs, Humans and Minotaurs but there has to be progression and the prospect of an endgame for this to be fun for me.

 

[dreyk]

can someone help me to get to bris content TwT i tried everything but past the minotaur (avion) quest i can't do anything. i tried to look at the walkthough and i think i'm at the tentacle monster quest were you need fresh venaison but i can't buy it.. i finished velis quest with merchant, meet amelia and did the first part of ornshakar quest...

 

[Snowmanly]

People that complain about the sub route not being a manipulative way to dom the characters - you understand that the Dom route is exactly that right? I haven't gotten into it, because I don't like it, but from the scenes I saw it's more like 'I am going to use sex as a reward for my servants to keep them loyal' or 'I am going to use sex to extract info' and the very same thing you guys want in the sub route. I for one, like the sub route. It's nice and gets the horny done. Someone inherently dominating that controls people usually ends up as a dom or a switch. Just like the Dom route. Don't like it? Don't play it, all I am going to say to that end. Just like how I am not really playing the dom route just looking at the scenes to get an idea what it is about.

To that end - the Bris scenes are done good. Nomo is a beginner writer that as far as I know, only writes for KoD. That's ok. In fact, for how little experience he has, it is alright to do it in a way he sees fitting. Dom Sabia - uses Briss as the whore to keep the tents in control. Sub Sabia - The roles switch on the opposite end and she becomes Briss' bitch. It's simple, and it gives us what we want to see. Honestly at this point I feel like this forum has become a bit entitled towards finding nitpicks on the game. They literally doubled the scenes in the game with the last update and people are still not freaking happy lol

 

[Jinsoyun]

People that complain about the sub route not being a manipulative way to dom the characters - you understand that the Dom route is exactly that right? I haven't gotten into it, because I don't like it, but from the scenes I saw it's more like 'I am going to use sex as a reward for my servants to keep them loyal' or 'I am going to use sex to extract info' and the very same thing you guys want in the sub route. I for one, like the sub route. It's nice and gets the horny done. Someone inherently dominating that controls people usually ends up as a dom or a switch. Just like the Dom route. Don't like it? Don't play it, all I am going to say to that end. Just like how I am not really playing the dom route just looking at the scenes to get an idea what it is about.

To that end - the Bris scenes are done good. Nomo is a beginner writer that as far as I know, only writes for KoD. That's ok. In fact, for how little experience he has, it is alright to do it in a way he sees fitting. Dom Sabia - uses Briss as the whore to keep the tents in control. Sub Sabia - The roles switch on the opposite end and she becomes Briss' bitch. It's simple, and it gives us what we want to see. Honestly at this point I feel like this forum has become a bit entitled towards finding nitpicks on the game. They literally doubled the scenes in the game with the last update and people are still not freaking happy lol

I think you are right and i mostly agree with you.

Just to clarify i only speak for myself here as always and so far i only wanted two scenarios to be altered a little bit: the shaman's case and the tents with Bris one. I don't ask these to be rewritten or anything. For one i like the scenarios and it would also be very douche for me to demand anything considering the circumstances.

My problem with these two scenarios in particular is that the sub path is completely passive. She does not have a plan nor does she even stop to contemplate her options. She could just have one short monologue going through what the captains, Vehlis, Neve or anyone else would do if she asked for help and decided that she had to put up with the current situation for a while and all my points would fly out the window.

I don't think the sub route should be all about manipulation and i don't suggest anything new either to be honest. For example Noxian Nights had 3 submissive women as protagonists and they pursued their goals, discussed their situations and even took the initiative in both sex and action from time to time.
Sabia has been and in most scenarios still is very similar. She initiated sex with Tekrok during the raids, she initiates basically every scene involving Lutvrog on both dom and sum route, she made additional preparations for the Arena event, she pursued clues both when the warchief went missing and when Grak was killed and a lot of these scenarios involved some of the hottest scenes in the game so far.

The sub route is not bad, i play it first on every patch because i like it more. But right now Sabia is at a very low point there as she basically lost everything so far and only Nomo knows how she will get out of this. Again, this is not inherently a bad thing, Sabia being on the bottom of the food chain can be a fun thing in the sub route.

As an example for what i'm missing look at the Raid patch. The patch before the Raids ended with Sabia sitting down in the middle of the camp to think about how to proceed when a group of orcs walked up to her and said that she seemed to have a plan and they want to be in on it. Sabia smiled since she had a bit of extra muscle on her side for the first time. Similarly the Raid story ended on both Rokgrid and Tekrok's side on both dom and sub route by Sabia noting that yeah, this thing with the captains could work.

Just a few lines like this at the end of the patch is all i'm suggesting, just what this game used to have. Sabia would still be a sub, she would still be the bitch of everyone, i could still look forward to enemies and even friends filling up that dog bowl for her, but it would show that she still has her goals on her mind and she is prepared to continue her adventure.

 

[Enigmanic]

People that complain about the sub route not being a manipulative way to dom the characters - you understand that the Dom route is exactly that right?..

Speaking as someone who has been supporting this game while running multiple erotic D&D campaigns for the last four years, let me educate you about proper sub and dom paths:

Dom - You use sex to manipulate people and get what you want. You are a sexually dominant person so you are almost always in charge during sex in addition to bossing people around outside the bedroom.

Sub - You are sexually submissive and you use that to manipulate people. They get to dominate you during sexual encounters and in exchange you end up getting assistance and making progress toward your goals. This also leaves you vulnerable to being bullied or pressured into additional sexual encounters that may not help with your goals.

The sub path in KoD is a dumpster fire. Sub Sabia rarely manipulates people with sex. Much more often she simply gets raped and/or gangbanged at every turn. She's a trainwreck of a whore with Stockholm Syndrome. As has been discussed before, the writing in this game is shit for various reasons. More sex content in the game is nice for those who just want spank material but for the rest of the fans and supporters who were/are invested in the game, we are also concerned about the writing, gameplay and story progression. The sub path in this game is a joke.

 

[saint751]

Speaking as someone who has been supporting this game while running multiple erotic D&D campaigns for the last four years, let me educate you about proper sub and dom paths:

Dom - You use sex to manipulate people and get what you want. You are a sexually dominant person so you are almost always in charge during sex in addition to bossing people around outside the bedroom.

Sub - You are sexually submissive and you use that to manipulate people. They get to dominate you during sexual encounters and in exchange you end up getting assistance and making progress toward your goals. This also leaves you vulnerable to being bullied or pressured into additional sexual encounters that may not help with your goals.

The sub path in KoD is a dumpster fire. Sub Sabia rarely manipulates people with sex. Much more often she simply gets raped and/or gangbanged at every turn. She's a trainwreck of a whore with Stockholm Syndrome. As has been discussed before, the writing in this game is shit for various reasons. More sex content in the game is nice for those who just want spank material but for the rest of the fans and supporters who were/are invested in the game, we are also concerned about the writing, gameplay and story progression. The sub path in this game is a joke.

There's actually a lot of potential in the Sub route. You have several characters that fancy themselves leaders and have power fantasies, that a clever submissive can exploit.
Tekrok isn't exactly dumb, but he's incredibly straight forward and has some big delusions of grandeur. You can see how Sabia can infiltrate his ranks and play him by exploiting his ego. The shaman is also a guy you could play submissive to until he lets his guard down and you sell him out to a more powerful party. Similarly, Kira seems to be driven by bloodlust and other base desires that a smart character can easily use to get the better of her.
Even Neve and Luvtrog, who will be your fuck-buddies either way, could be manipulated to feel protective of you.

At the end of the day I feel like Sierra Lee might have had a plan, but she clearly didn't share her outline with the rest of Hreinn, because these last couple of updates were nothing but meandering excuses for sex scenes with a mostly reactive Dom!Sabia resolving issues that just came up, while Sub!Sabia stumbles her way through a chain of events and arriving at the same conclusion somehow.

 

[heehatatt]

My problem with sub Sabia, specifically the new Bris scenes, is that Sabia a:

-full member of the tribe
-champion of the red gods arena
-proven raid leader
-kentark(same rank as Lutvrog) in training
-personal friend of the temp chieftain

allows herself to be pushed around by some random catgirl that was very recently enslaved. I actually really like the scenes, I just wish that they found a way to implement them that makes sense.

 

[Dante477]

My problem with sub Sabia, specifically the new Bris scenes, is that Sabia a:

-full member of the tribe
-champion of the red gods arena
-proven raid leader
-kentark(same rank as Lutvrog) in training
-personal friend of the temp chieftain

allows herself to be pushed around by some random catgirl that was very recently enslaved. I actually really like the scenes, I just wish that they found a way to implement them that makes sense.

I mean, that's the whole point of it all; Sabia getting humiliated by someone who's physically weaker than her.

Secondly, Bris isn't any random Cat-girl like you speak of, she's literally the leader of her own caravan. Bris despises Sabia(for obvious reasons) and her outsmarting/blackmailing the arrogant human THREE times does show that she's really dangerous when given so much volubility.

Lastly, I think many of us forget that the tents/Bris quest is literally unfinished. It's obvious that the devs decided to cut content here. I assume we're at the early stages of the event, maybe that's why Sabia still doesn't have a solid or concrete plan at the moment. Overall, I think the quest does make sense and the potential is really high.

(Plus I can't wait to see Sabia's reaction when Bris hands her this HOT and humiliating gift lol)

 

[NaughtyOppaiDragon]

I mean, that's the whole point of it all; Sabia getting humiliated by someone who's physically weaker than her.

Secondly, Bris isn't any random Cat-girl like you speak of, she's literally the leader of her own caravan. Bris despises Sabia(for obvious reasons) and her outsmarting/blackmailing the arrogant human THREE times does show that she's really dangerous when given so much volubility.

Lastly, I think many of us forget that the tents/Bris quest is literally unfinished. It's obvious that the devs decided to cut content here. I assume we're at the early stages of the event, maybe that's why Sabia still doesn't have a solid or concrete plan at the moment. Overall, I think the quest does make sense and the potential is really high.

(Plus I can't wait to see Sabia's reaction when Bris hands her this HOT and humiliating gift lol)
View attachment 1529060

Any year now

 

[heehatatt]

I mean, that's the whole point of it all; Sabia getting humiliated by someone who's physically weaker than her.

Secondly, Bris isn't any random Cat-girl like you speak of, she's literally the leader of her own caravan. Bris despises Sabia(for obvious reasons) and her outsmarting/blackmailing the arrogant human THREE times does show that she's really dangerous when given so much volubility.

Lastly, I think many of us forget that the tents/Bris quest is literally unfinished. It's obvious that the devs decided to cut content here. I assume we're at the early stages of the event, maybe that's why Sabia still doesn't have a solid or concrete plan at the moment. Overall, I think the quest does make sense and the potential is really high.

(Plus I can't wait to see Sabia's reaction when Bris hands her this HOT and humiliating gift lol)
View attachment 1529060

I don't mind her getting humiliated by someone weaker than her, I mind that shes being humiliated by someone with literally no standing in the tribe besides "i pay the tent guards."

She is completely random compared to Sabia, she is a literal nobody that was recently (at least in my playthrough) a tent slave. Tent slave catgirl vs tribe member, kentark in training, raid leader, arena champion Sabia. This is a very big part of why her blackmailing Sabia makes literally no sense. Who would actually believe the catgirl whore over proven warrior and tribe member Sabia? Especially when Sabia's friend Jak is the temporary chieftain? At least when the shaman pulls his shit its somewhat believable because he's a shaman and has high standing in orc society

 

[saint751]

I don't mind her getting humiliated by someone weaker than her, I mind that shes being humiliated by someone with literally no standing in the tribe besides "i pay the tent guards."

She is completely random compared to Sabia, she is a literal nobody that was recently (at least in my playthrough) a tent slave. Tent slave catgirl vs tribe member, kentark in training, raid leader, arena champion Sabia. This is a very big part of why her blackmailing Sabia makes literally no sense. Who would actually believe the catgirl whore over proven warrior and tribe member Sabia? Especially when Sabia's friend Jak is the temporary chieftain? At least when the shaman pulls his shit its somewhat believable because he's a shaman and has high standing in orc society

The only way I can see it working is if Bris is way more subtle. She has a big secret to lord over Sabia, but if it actually came out, they'd both be screwed, since it's literally the only bit of leverage Bris has on anyone. So I can see how Bris could force Sabia to submit to her in private and take control of the tents that way. And maybe, MAYBE you can involve the Bai Ashi disguise for a more open humiliation every once in a while.
But she can't involve anyone else in it, because a) that would raise questions for the reasons mentioned above and b) it seems unlikely that Sabia wouldn't just kill Bris at that point, due to the danger she poses. We literally have ludonarrative disonance in the sense that Sabia slaughters dozens of guys, but gets overpowered by two no-name orcs and a catgirl.
There's story potential in Bris and Sabia trying to get one over on each other and Bris getting the upper hand for a while, but not if they both act like morons about it.

 

[Dante477]

I don't mind her getting humiliated by someone weaker than her, I mind that shes being humiliated by someone with literally no standing in the tribe besides "i pay the tent guards."

She is completely random compared to Sabia, she is a literal nobody that was recently (at least in my playthrough) a tent slave. Tent slave catgirl vs tribe member, kentark in training, raid leader, arena champion Sabia. This is a very big part of why her blackmailing Sabia makes literally no sense. Who would actually believe the catgirl whore over proven warrior and tribe member Sabia? Especially when Sabia's friend Jak is the temporary chieftain? At least when the shaman pulls his shit its somewhat believable because he's a shaman and has high standing in orc society

The game mentioned and answered everything you have complained in v10.
So, I will let the game speak for it self:







And for the last part, Sabia being strong and powerful doesn't mean she's invincible, with the right plan and knowledge, she can be exploited. Bris is one of Sabia's mistakes, she left her unchecked, and now she's paying the consequences of her actions.

 

[Dante477]

The only way I can see it working is if Bris is way more subtle. She has a big secret to lord over Sabia, but if it actually came out, they'd both be screwed, since it's literally the only bit of leverage Bris has on anyone. So I can see how Bris could force Sabia to submit to her in private and take control of the tents that way. And maybe, MAYBE you can involve the Bai Ashi disguise for a more open humiliation every once in a while.
But she can't involve anyone else in it, because a) that would raise questions for the reasons mentioned above and b) it seems unlikely that Sabia wouldn't just kill Bris at that point, due to the danger she poses. We literally have ludonarrative disonance in the sense that Sabia slaughters dozens of guys, but gets overpowered by two no-name orcs and a catgirl.
There's story potential in Bris and Sabia trying to get one over on each other and Bris getting the upper hand for a while, but not if they both act like morons about it.

You really make some fine points but I disagree with the ludonarrative dissonance part.

Sabia can clearly overpower both orcs and Bris if she wants to, but that will start a trial and Sabia being the one who initiated the fight, she may lose the tents and her standing in the orc camp; plus Bris will share everything she knows to the orcs. It's a very risky move and Sabia knows it, that's why she's looking for alternative options.

 

[saint751]

You really make some fine points but I disagree with the ludonarrative dissonance part.

Sabia can clearly overpower both orcs and Bris if she wants to, but that will start a trial and Sabia being the one who initiated the fight, she may lose the tents and her standing in the orc camp; plus Bris will share everything she knows to the orcs. It's a very risky move and Sabia knows it, that's why she's looking for alternative options.

You see, my issue with that reasoning is that it barely takes the bigger picture into account or all the things Sabia has done so far in the game. Even if she isn't as respected as Dom!Sabia, she's still deeply ingrained with one of the big lieutenants, to whom, no matter how they feel about her, she is an asset. (Even more so since she's in charge of the tents.) The Dom! route actually points out that their difference in social standing would make it very easy for Sabia to get rid of Bris and come up with a reason after the fact. Hell, she could run her through right there, put a dagger in her paw and tell the orcs that Bris attacked her. Since Bris is a bottom-feeder, not part of the tribe and has 0 friends in higher places, nobody would scrutinize the case. I can buy Sabia being concerned, willing to take a little humilliation and pay a certain sum to buy Bris' silence. What I can't buy is her giving up control of the tents, letting Bris humiliate her in public and having the threat of exposure constantly lorded over her. At that point Bris is too much of a liabilty to everything she's trying to accomplish. Even Sub!Sabia has killed people over less.

The writer basically puts the entire situation down to which of the characters is more confident during the blackmail scene. And that's just dumb. Sub!Sabia isn't just a wimp, she's an idiot. - That's my issue.

 

[Enigmanic]

You see, my issue with that reasoning is that it barely takes the bigger picture into account or all the things Sabia has done so far in the game. Even if she isn't as respected as Dom!Sabia, she's still deeply ingrained with one of the big lieutenants, to whom, no matter how they feel about her, she is an asset. (Even more so since she's in charge of the tents.) The Dom! route actually points out that their difference in social standing would make it very easy for Sabia to get rid of Bris and come up with a reason after the fact. Hell, she could run her through right there, put a dagger in her paw and tell the orcs that Bris attacked her. Since Bris is a bottom-feeder, not part of the tribe and has 0 friends in higher places, nobody would scrutinize the case. I can buy Sabia being concerned, willing to take a little humilliation and pay a certain sum to buy Bris' silence. What I can't buy is her giving up control of the tents, letting Bris humiliate her in public and having the threat of exposure constantly lorded over her. At that point Bris is too much of a liabilty to everything she's trying to accomplish. Even Sub!Sabia has killed people over less.

The writer basically puts the entire situation down to which of the characters is more confident during the blackmail scene. And that's just dumb. Sub!Sabia isn't just a wimp, she's an idiot. - That's my issue.

Not to mention, Sabia could easily correct the situation at any time. All she needs to do is find another place to hide the slime creature and have Neve and/or Maply help clean the cave of any traces of the slime. Then if Bris does spill the beans, the orcs will investigate and determine that Bris is lying.

BTW - This entire scenario is fundamentally flawed. The whole blackmail situation starts when Bris slips out of camp and follows Sabia when she goes to visit the slime creature.
Wait, what?! Bris is a slave bound to the pleasure tents. How was she able to leave the camp without the orcs stopping her?

 

[RandomRalts]

What is CG RIP? Also if I download the bonus where do I put it in the files?

 

[Dante477]

You see, my issue with that reasoning is that it barely takes the bigger picture into account or all the things Sabia has done so far in the game. Even if she isn't as respected as Dom!Sabia, she's still deeply ingrained with one of the big lieutenants, to whom, no matter how they feel about her, she is an asset. (Even more so since she's in charge of the tents.) The Dom! route actually points out that their difference in social standing would make it very easy for Sabia to get rid of Bris and come up with a reason after the fact. Hell, she could run her through right there, put a dagger in her paw and tell the orcs that Bris attacked her. Since Bris is a bottom-feeder, not part of the tribe and has 0 friends in higher places, nobody would scrutinize the case. I can buy Sabia being concerned, willing to take a little humilliation and pay a certain sum to buy Bris' silence. What I can't buy is her giving up control of the tents, letting Bris humiliate her in public and having the threat of exposure constantly lorded over her. At that point Bris is too much of a liabilty to everything she's trying to accomplish. Even Sub!Sabia has killed people over less.

The writer basically puts the entire situation down to which of the characters is more confident during the blackmail scene. And that's just dumb. Sub!Sabia isn't just a wimp, she's an idiot. - That's my issue.

Fair enough. It's a subjective quest, some people may like it and some may don't. I for one, do like the idea of Sabia getting her ass handed to her by Bris and the two Orcs, and I'm willing to cut them some slack as long as the writing is some what competent.