VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[Jinsoyun]

I think Sierra is one of the best writers who's work can be found on this site and the changes in the writing since her departure can be pointed out rather quickly. I don't want to throw smack at the current writer either, i think he is quite good too, just not one of the best and that can be felt.

But this game was always going to have development issues due to decisions made with Sierra's contribution and a lot of her fans tend to ignore that.

For one, KoD went big. Literally in the case of the art. NN's pictures were 550x420, but for KoD he went all out and drew everything in 2000x1500 at least with full backgrounds. I don't draw myself, but that seems to be a lot of extra work.

Speaking of which, right from the very first release, the story has 4 main routes and so a lot of the story content that's developed would have to be done 4 times. Major patches like the Arena, the Raids, or the warchief's disappearance have significant differences.
Add to this a lot of the other choices on the routes like the sub/dom, the initial freedom/slavery and a few others and it's safe to say that the amount of work necessary to develop an hour of content for KoD is significantly more than it was for NN. 9 months long? Probably not, but even in the best case scenario the devs set themselves up to a lot of work and still slower content.

And finally the switch to Renpy. This was most likely a necessary decision due to the heavy emphasis on politics and branching routes in the game, but the fact still remains that Nomo and Sierra decided to switch to a system neither of them knew and which does require programming and again as far as i've heard neither of them does that either.

I don't want to sound mean, i'm sorry if i do and i'm honestly not blaming anyone either. Sierra is a great writer and a good dev, but she can't do miracles. Some delays in the process were inevitable for example when Nomo had to draw new assets for groping, for humans or minotaurs, and Sierra's presence wouldn't have changed that. She simply left before the inevitable happened.

 

[hakarlman]

Omg, the bar groping stills ends with an anti-climax? She should be able to let the bar gropers fuck her, then convince them to work for Tekrok afterwards.

Fuck, I may be able to mod this scene to fix it, in a VERY convincing way that seems natural to the story. Then the bar groping could be turned into a repeatable scene.

This bar groping anti-climax is the main reason I don't sub to their patreon. It's a huge fuck up. No one gives a shit about a non-sexual murder investigation in a porn game.

 

[Jinsoyun]

So, once again, i wanted to collect my thoughts on the fun possibilities of the re-usable arts, But because i keep forgetting my ideas i decided to write them down and if you guys don't mind, this is as good a place as any.

I'll start with a few i've mentioned before.

The first and most obvious one would be to "grind" for faction bonuses, information or other stats. For example a quest would say that Sabia needs to gather information in the human towns, but she only gathers smaller pieces during each round, so she has to keep going back. Or she would need to be the "employee of the month" in the brothel to get sent to someone important and this could be one of the methods of infiltration.

Similarly, re-used art could be fun as repeated payments for Tekrok's or Ornshakar's help. This has been done before and new major scenes should still get new art, but Sabia could negotiate a system with Tekrok where every time she gets help from his men, Sabia will also have some repeated visits at night for a few days afterwards.

And finally on my list on repeated ideas for repeated scenes.. Sabia on the sub route should turn the power play with Bris into a contest of sexual prowess. A "fuck off" if you don't mind the pun. Basically after another scene where Bris orders the guards to humiliate Sabia again, Sabia could get up, tired and messy and say something along the lines of "OK, let's be real. We will do this again one way or another, but if you guys rejoin my team, then you can have Bris as a bonus too". After this it's up to the imagination, but i can think of a few directions for when two experienced women try to convince two increasingly smug orcs to help them instead of the other. Just saying.

Another fun idea would be to use repeatable scenes to fix the problems of the combat system. This is a porn game after all. Does anyone still remember the early game where Sabia could pay a bit of money to buy training? Yeah, how are these two not combined already? The scenes don't have to be long or complicated, but different art could be used for strength (Sabia top), stamina (Sabia bottom) and endurance/HP (threesome, foursome) training.
This would finally give the devs the ability to create interesting or tougher combat since losing would just mean that Sabia needs to train a bit more...

Last, but definitely not least, Sabia could now have casual sex friends in the camp. From random lucky orcs through minor npcs like the named goons of the captains or shamans to important characters. The later ones would obviously need their own major scenes eventually, but poor Lutvrog didn't get any action in 6 patches and a system like this could make the camp a bit more lively in a fashion we know from NN.
Neve even has her full sex friend arc ready in the bonus scenes, just tweak them a bit and make it official.

Any thoughts on this? How would you guy use the repeated arts if it was up to you?

 

[Alicja Erberg]

So, once again, i wanted to collect my thoughts on the fun possibilities of the re-usable arts, But because i keep forgetting my ideas i decided to write them down and if you guys don't mind, this is as good a place as any.

I'll start with a few i've mentioned before.

The first and most obvious one would be to "grind" for faction bonuses, information or other stats. For example a quest would say that Sabia needs to gather information in the human towns, but she only gathers smaller pieces during each round, so she has to keep going back. Or she would need to be the "employee of the month" in the brothel to get sent to someone important and this could be one of the methods of infiltration.

Similarly, re-used art could be fun as repeated payments for Tekrok's or Ornshakar's help. This has been done before and new major scenes should still get new art, but Sabia could negotiate a system with Tekrok where every time she gets help from his men, Sabia will also have some repeated visits at night for a few days afterwards.

And finally on my list on repeated ideas for repeated scenes.. Sabia on the sub route should turn the power play with Bris into a contest of sexual prowess. A "fuck off" if you don't mind the pun. Basically after another scene where Bris orders the guards to humiliate Sabia again, Sabia could get up, tired and messy and say something along the lines of "OK, let's be real. We will do this again one way or another, but if you guys rejoin my team, then you can have Bris as a bonus too". After this it's up to the imagination, but i can think of a few directions for when two experienced women try to convince two increasingly smug orcs to help them instead of the other. Just saying.

Another fun idea would be to use repeatable scenes to fix the problems of the combat system. This is a porn game after all. Does anyone still remember the early game where Sabia could pay a bit of money to buy training? Yeah, how are these two not combined already? The scenes don't have to be long or complicated, but different art could be used for strength (Sabia top), stamina (Sabia bottom) and endurance/HP (threesome, foursome) training.
This would finally give the devs the ability to create interesting or tougher combat since losing would just mean that Sabia needs to train a bit more...

Last, but definitely not least, Sabia could now have casual sex friends in the camp. From random lucky orcs through minor npcs like the named goons of the captains or shamans to important characters. The later ones would obviously need their own major scenes eventually, but poor Lutvrog didn't get any action in 6 patches and a system like this could make the camp a bit more lively in a fashion we know from NN.
Neve even has her full sex friend arc ready in the bonus scenes, just tweak them a bit and make it official.

Any thoughts on this? How would you guy use the repeated arts if it was up to you?

Repeateable scenes without a sense of progression or any kind of conflict are just that - get boring quickly. One of your ideas is ok as a quest partial solution - to get information, win favors etc. If you want the sexual grinding to be somehow meaningful, you'd have to introduce sexual and mental stats / sexual experience, e.g.

1) Sabia has to overhear meaningful information that would help her solve some quest, the only way to get that is to be either good enough at sneaking or fucking. The discussion takes a place in a larger tent in camp. She can enter it and provide her sexual services as an entartainment for the participants. The thing is, if she is not sexually skilled enough, she loses her concsiousness due to running out of stamina or taking too much sexual abuse (e.g. passing out while getting choked or deepthroating or simply in too much pain) before being able to overhear important information (the orcs do fucking first and discussing things later)

2) Sabia needs a lot of money to convince one of the orcs to do her bidding. However, in order to get such an amount she needs to step up her sexual game in relief tents. She can ask for extra nasty or brutal treatment to get orcs more excited and pay for the extra sexual services. However, each extra sexual service provides dimnishing results as the novelty wears off so in order to get required sum of money she needs to be more and more creative (or should we say sexually depraved). She could offer herself to gangbangs, wear vagina chastity belt so that orcs abuse her ass only, do double anal or double vaginal, provide ass to mouth, allow to be fisted etc. Basically each new scenario should be more and more demanding both stamina and mentaly wise - so it wouldn't be possible to do them in easy progression - Sabia should've been more prepared (more elastic orifices due to constant overstretching) and depraved before attempting something new.

Examples could go on, basically if you want the repeatable scenes to be fun, you need to provide an interesting context (why is she allowing to get fucked/abused and how she feels about it). That way, even if visual representation is mostly the same, what matters is what are Sabia thoughts when she e.g. sucks a dirty orc schlong that has just been in her ass or how game mechanics reflects on that. Is it too much for her and she passes out or starts vomiting thus cancelling the positive effects of her ordeal or her corruption is so great already that she bears with it? If her ass is sore because she had an anal only gangbang the night before, will she be able to endure the pain for the next night of constant assfucking or quit in tears?

 

[aaaaaaaaaaaaaa1]

booba

 

[Loktar27]

where booba?

 

[Bawunga]

booba

Finally, a sensible post.

 

[LichG]

People began to create their own vision of the game besides the official one. Keep it up tho, looks impressive

 

[Jinsoyun]

People began to create their own vision of the game besides the official one. Keep it up tho, looks impressive

Well, yeah, but that has been going on since day one. A lot of people have written down their ideas and wishes here and i like a lot of those more than my own stuff.

Noxian Nights had a ton of repeated art in it and i liked that game just like most of us here, so ever since i joined the conversation here i said that this game could also benefit from re-using some art as well as long as it is done to compliment the new pictures and not replace them. Now that we have the assets i wanted to see what uses i could come up for them and Alicja made some good observations on the point.

I'm no different than anyone who just asks for more Neve or more orcs, i'm just prone to rambling.

 

[hakarlman]

I finally figured out how to solve the Rescue Vehlis quest. Spoiler below.

Spoiler: Here are my steps:

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God bless you man. Fuck this quest. What the fuck was the developer thinking.

EDIT: my god, bris taking over the tents makes absolutely no sense. terrible writing. none of this makes any sense. It's a complete turn off. The better angle would be for sabia to just work at the fucking tents to reward the orcs after winning battles against her mage sister; that would fit along side the severely neglected main story.

Either Vehlis should take over the tents, NEVE, or whoever Sabia sided with. If Sabia sided with Tekrok, Tekrok takes over the tents and appoints one of his minions or something. Then they use the money to fund the war effort against Sabia's sister.

Fuck, this writing went to total and utter shit.

Bris taking over the tents makes no fucking sense. She's had almost no character development. It should be either Vehlis, Neve, or whichever Orc Sabia sided with.

 

[Jinsoyun]

God bless you man. Fuck this quest. What the fuck was the developer thinking.

EDIT: my god, bris taking over the tents makes absolutely no sense. terrible writing. none of this makes any sense. It's a complete turn off. The better angle would be for sabia to just work at the fucking tents to reward the orcs after winning battles against her mage sister; that would fit along side the severely neglected main story.

Either Vehlis should take over the tents, NEVE, or whoever Sabia sided with. If Sabia sided with Tekrok, Tekrok takes over the tents and appoints one of his minions or something. Then they use the money to fund the war effort against Sabia's sister.

Fuck, this writing went to total and utter shit.

Bris taking over the tents makes no fucking sense. She's had almost no character development. It should be either Vehlis, Neve, or whichever Orc Sabia sided with.

Bris trying to grab power makes sense, but Sabia's reaction to it on the sub route is baffling to me. Sabia is currently trying to take down one of the strongest person on the continent who rules one of the strongest houses in the strongest empire and when a random catgirl convinces two orcs to side with her against Sabia, she just stands there and thinks: "whelp, there is nothing i can do about this now."

It wouldn't even need too much extra to make a lot more sense. Just add a quick line saying something like "i know what to do but i need to buy a bit of time", or "let's see what Bris tries to do with this opportunity" or considering that this is the sub route even something along the lines of "this must stop soon, but for now i'll have a bit of fun".

Just 3-4 more sentences and Sabia either stays an active protagonist or she is just giving herself a bit of time to enjoy her kink instead of sitting there helplessly as she does now.

 

[Brother Penetrātus]

Want to quote them again: "...in the next faster update."

Meanwhile, we are heading straight to 3 months without one of these "faster updates".
(I don't even want to start to discuss the dull writing that was mentioned above. At this point, all my hope goes for fappable art and decent mods.)

 

[hakarlman]

Bris trying to grab power makes sense, but Sabia's reaction to it on the sub route is baffling to me.

I think Bris's power grab CAN make sense, but she lacks the character development for it. She needs to be introduced earlier in the game, and placed in a position of power that rivals Neve. She needs to feel just as powerful as Neve, Vehlis, or even the lead Orcs. But then it begs the question, why make a new character? Why not just use Neve or Vehlis? They already have Vehlis funding the tents, so that was the right direction.

Sabia is currently trying to take down one of the strongest person on the continent who rules one of the strongest houses in the strongest empire and when a random catgirl convinces two orcs to side with her against Sabia, she just stands there and thinks: "whelp, there is nothing i can do about this now."

I strongly agree, you nailed it here.

It wouldn't even need too much extra to make a lot more sense. Just add a quick line saying something like "i know what to do but i need to buy a bit of time", or "let's see what Bris tries to do with this opportunity" or considering that this is the sub route even something along the lines of "this must stop soon, but for now i'll have a bit of fun".

It sounds like you're a huge fan of Bris? Be honest, do you like Neve, Vehlis or Bris? If you think Bris running the tents makes a lot of sense, maybe I should give her another chance. But, I just don't see it. Kira would make a better madame than Bris.

Just 3-4 more sentences and Sabia either stays an active protagonist or she is just giving herself a bit of time to enjoy her kink instead of sitting there helplessly as she does now.

It sounds like you like Bris. I just don't see her as a dominate catgirl. The catgirl's are portrayed as highly submissive, and they get conquered.

The name catgirl just screams an aura of submissiveness, not power IMO.

A woman like Kira would make sense for running the tents. Kira, Neve, Vehlis, not Bris. I just don't see it. Even the Averton mayor would make a better Madame. Averton gets conquered and you turn the mayor girl into the tent madame.

 

[mc loving VI]

People began to create their own vision of the game besides the official one. Keep it up tho, looks impressive

Link ?

 

[Jinsoyun]

I think Bris's power grab CAN make sense, but she lacks the character development for it. She needs to be introduced earlier in the game, and placed in a position of power that rivals Neve. She needs to feel just as powerful as Neve, Vehlis, or even the lead Orcs. But then it begs the question, why make a new character? Why not just use Neve or Vehlis? They already have Vehlis funding the tents, so that was the right direction.



I strongly agree, you nailed it here.



It sounds like you're a huge fan of Bris? Be honest, do you like Neve, Vehlis or Bris? If you think Bris running the tents makes a lot of sense, maybe I should give her another chance. But, I just don't see it. Kira would make a better madame than Bris.



It sounds like you like Bris. I just don't see her as a dominate catgirl. The catgirl's are portrayed as highly submissive, and they get conquered.

The name catgirl just screams an aura of submissiveness, not power IMO.

A woman like Kira would make sense for running the tents. Kira, Neve, Vehlis, not Bris. I just don't see it. Even the Averton mayor would make a better Madame. Averton gets conquered and you turn the mayor girl into the tent madame.

You misunderstood me. Bris actually taking over the tents for a prolonged time makes no sense. The captains or even the shaman would stop it anyway. What i can agree with is Bris TRYING to take over the tents. She was the leader of their caravan after all and her trying to take back control or even escaping with her team after months of being used is logical.

This is one of the scenarios where i much prefer the dom route. There Sabia shuts down Bris' attempt very quickly but she still joins in some of the scenes because she gets horny and wants to have fun. My suggestions to add a few lines follow a similar idea. I don't think that the devs will rewrite half of the last patch in order to get things to make more sense so we are stuck with this scenario.

But if we already are here, then just saying that Sabia knows how she could stop Bris, but she DECIDES not to do so for now either because she is curious or just because she enjoys an excuse for sub sex, could make more sense and open up options for sex scenes as well.

I'm not saying that Bris should run the tents, in fact i've stated the exact opposite in most of my posts since the update. I think Sabia should find a way to take back the tents as soon as possible and even in the current version she shouldn't have lost it like this.

By the way, i don't think Neve would bother running the tents since it could be time consuming and Vehlis would probably do it through a proxy just like she does through Sabia, so that was well written at least.

p.s.: aside from Sabia, Neve is the best girl.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

 

[Anastasia7]

My pc crashed while playing this game now i cannot save

 

[Shakira]

All this talk of Sabia/Bris tent plot meanwhile I just want to see some Sabia x Bris lesdom scenes lol. Some repeatable lesbian scenes would be amazing as well.

 

[RPDL]

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- get torrents a few minutes early! (rpdl#6652)

 

[Yukariin]

All this talk of Sabia/Bris tent plot meanwhile I just want to see some Sabia x Bris lesdom scenes lol. Some repeatable lesbian scenes would be amazing as well.

honestly i don't really care about any of the other female characters, all i want to see is sabia and the orcs.

 

[saint751]

You misunderstood me. Bris actually taking over the tents for a prolonged time makes no sense. The captains or even the shaman would stop it anyway. What i can agree with is Bris TRYING to take over the tents. She was the leader of their caravan after all and her trying to take back control or even escaping with her team after months of being used is logical.

This is one of the scenarios where i much prefer the dom route. There Sabia shuts down Bris' attempt very quickly but she still joins in some of the scenes because she gets horny and wants to have fun. My suggestions to add a few lines follow a similar idea. I don't think that the devs will rewrite half of the last patch in order to get things to make more sense so we are stuck with this scenario.

But if we already are here, then just saying that Sabia knows how she could stop Bris, but she DECIDES not to do so for now either because she is curious or just because she enjoys an excuse for sub sex, could make more sense and open up options for sex scenes as well.

I'm not saying that Bris should run the tents, in fact i've stated the exact opposite in most of my posts since the update. I think Sabia should find a way to take back the tents as soon as possible and even in the current version she shouldn't have lost it like this.

By the way, i don't think Neve would bother running the tents since it could be time consuming and Vehlis would probably do it through a proxy just like she does through Sabia, so that was well written at least.

p.s.: aside from Sabia, Neve is the best girl.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

The devs have gotten the wrong idea, in that they seem to think that every single scenario needs a SUB and a DOM alternative. I really disagree with that decision. The point of this allignment system wasn't to change the flavour text in some areas, but to present some alternate scenarios that are tailored to a submissive or a dominant Sabia. The whole matter with Bris is clearly a DOM event with a sloppy, barely credible SUB rewrite, that all but breaks the suspension of disbelief for the player.
There are scenarios that can be approached from a DOM or a SUB pov and probably have to, in order for the story not to balloon out of control. This wasn't one of them.

I dislike stories where the main character is this completely passiv moron, being thrown about by the whims of fate. And that's what SUB Sabia has turned into. I already sperged about how the sub route could still involve Sabia getting her way, by manipulating the people that think they got her under their thumb. But that necessitates smarter writing and scenes that actually cater to the idea of DECEPTION in a game called "Kingdom of Deception".
Hreinn clearly want to make their updates look a little bigger by putting a variant of every scene in every route. But speaking as someone who can maintain two save files: I'd rather have fewer scenes with more care and thought put into them. If this trend continues I don't even see a point in keeping up with the SUB route.