Avaron1974

Resident Lesbian
Aug 22, 2018
24,886
84,987
General comment to the thread:
One of my businesses was providing technical talent to various companies. I'm chatting with a prospect, only to discover a weird connection. In my neck of the woods, various companies had male and female basket ball teams. A very close friend coached the women's team for his company. They made it to the finals and lost by a last minute shot at the buzzer.

So I'm talking with her and she describes making that shot and watching, with great satisfaction, the opposing coach (my friend) crumple. This takes us into a set of conversations outside what is common for a business interview, and we end up making each other available for conversations and the occasional lunch. She's gay and in a 10 year relationship with a woman with whom she mutually owns a house.

Long story short I get a ping to meet her for lunch because she want's to talk about her life. So she met a guy and she decided that she didn't want to be in a lesbian relationship any longer. She didn't want to hurt her partner, but she'd found someone who could make her happy. She said she wanted my advice, but I think the just wanted to talk through her feelings and options. Her choice cost her almost all of her female friends (which I suspect is why she chose to talk through it with me), but roughly 18 months later she was married, pregnant, and as happy as someone can be in the real world.

My point is this. When it comes to relationships, and the human heart, things can change drastically in a matter of weeks or even days. Real life is more varied than any of us can understand. Low probability doesn't equate to NO probability.
The problem isn't them wanting to be with him, it's that they want to be together but if he only wants one of them they will break up.

It's not their choice, it's his.

He's entering their relationship and saying "well, I want you but I don't want you so now you break up".

The main problem with the whole throuple not throuple thing is that 99% of the game is so well done. Not only is mental health dealt with incredibly well, it plays with the heartstrings easily with most of the cast.

Then you come to Kira and Robin and it's so badly done and full of so much bullshit that it's like it was added on by someone else. It's so bad it just doesn't fit with the rest of the game.

It's like added DLC because people wanted a possible throuple but the dev didn't have the time so he outsourced it to his drunk Uncle Fred who's only relationship is with pornhub, a box of tissues, some orange scented lube and his right hand.

It would have been far better if they were just friends but could have been more if you went that route rather than the absolute hot mess it currently is.
 

slick97

Member
Dec 2, 2021
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The problem isn't them wanting to be with him, it's that they want to be together but if he only wants one of them they will break up.

It's not their choice, it's his.

He's entering their relationship and saying "well, I want you but I don't want you so now you break up".

The main problem with the whole throuple not throuple thing is that 99% of the game is so well done. Not only is mental health dealt with incredibly well, it plays with the heartstrings easily with most of the cast.

Then you come to Kira and Robin and it's so badly done and full of so much bullshit that it's like it was added on by someone else. It's so bad it just doesn't fit with the rest of the game.

It's like added DLC because people wanted a possible throuple but the dev didn't have the time so he outsourced it to his drunk Uncle Fred who's only relationship is with pornhub, a box of tissues, some orange scented lube and his right hand.

It would have been far better if they were just friends but could have been more if you went that route rather than the absolute hot mess it currently is.
I always figured it was deliberate that drifty opened up the game introducing us to Kira and Robin. However I always figured the narrative reasoning behind their inclusion of MC into their relationship was meant to add context behind their conflict later on in chapter 5/6. It's definitely a believable conflict caused by a lack of communication as Robin believes she "stole" Kira's chance at life and raising a family away from her, but I never went with the option of forcing them to breakup since to me that would end up breaking the story later on.

The potential relationship dynamic feels out of character compared to the rest of the story, but it definitely feels as though there is an intentional path Drifty wants us to take. While some of the other relationships (like Steph and Linda) feel better integrated into the main plot, both Kira and Robin suffer as a throuple or solo relationship with either of them breaks the plot in a significant way.

It's always difficult writing a story with branching paths in mind since the complexity of the plot increases exponentially. However this story is one of the few that handled it surprisingly well without too many continuity errors.
 
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slick97

Member
Dec 2, 2021
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It's a story, of course I knew what was coming... but then unexpectedly it got so much more
None of us were prepared for how hard that scene was going to hit. I knew it was going to be a brutal scene based on the warning screen and title of the chapter, but I was severely underprepared for just how close to reality it was.

It didn't happen the exact way it happened to Cece in the story. But the story is inspired by the dev's own family tragedy, with a few of his real life experience as a father mixed in.
That message at the end makes a ton more sense now. I figured Drifty must've experienced someone suffering from depression, but it never crossed my mind that he was essentially recounting a personal story of his.
 

Sh0gvn

Active Member
Dec 19, 2021
622
10,520



Thank you for the questions. I've tried answering them to the best of my abilities, but if I botched something, just nod and smile like I'm doing great. :)

I've skipped a few questions, as they were similar to other questions where I've included the answer to both when answering.

What is the scene you're most proud of..and is there one you would redo?
- tonymack21

Looking at LoF as a whole, I can't really pinpoint a single scene I'm the most proud of. When I release a chapter I always want it to have (a) scene(s) that stands out in some way. Mostly, these scenes spawn from me having a brainstorming moment, and two weeks later when I put it together and watch the result I sit there thinking "did I just use two weeks making this scene which lasts 1,5 minutes?" But I think these scenes are worth it and add to the more kinetic way of telling a story with images and text, and I take more pride in putting these in than being able to select one of them. But when I sat there in Daz Studio, with the MC in the bunny slippers, bopping his toes up and down to the music playing in the background, giggling to myself, I just thought "fuck it, I'm doing it". And I'm glad I did. Your reaction to it helped me realize I should just lower my shoulders and do stuff like that more often.

There's not a particular moment I'd like to redo visually. LoF also tells the story of me having downloaded Daz studio and started this right away to where I'm now. Sure, there are some facial expressions that can be improved here and there, the Kira and Robin path could have done with a rework, and maybe some images that could have been improved with better lighting or higher quality textures, but all in all I'm happy with it. If I were to redo it, I would do a complete overhaul and release it again in the Unreal or Unity engine in a 3d environment. That, to me, is a redo. Not small changes to images.

What will you try to do differently to make sure that this music issue doesn't happen for the next game?
- Michael Arias

I have already found a site offering music that are cleared adult content games. Of course, there's a higher chance that you've heard the song before in another game, but that's the downside of it I'm afraid. I'm also contacting musicians directly to get perpetual licenses with no adult restrictions. Other than that, there's not much I can do.

Will the music make its way back to the game ?
- carlos eduardo pereira titão

It's hard to answer because it depends on several things. When I got the ok from Artlist back in 2020, I decided to make full use of their huge library, as I could make music an integral part of the game. After the removal from Steam, I have contacted several of the musicians used in the original score, and many of them have been positive to sell me licenses of their music for Leap of Faith - even considering it's an adult game. Though, it will cost around $100,000 to reinsert all the music in its (close to) original form.

Sadly, that kind of investment is not worth it if the game continues to be removed from Steam, as it will put me into the red for a game I have worked on intensively for more than two years, where I will have no market to sell it on, and the customer base (you guys) already have the full music version downloaded and will get to keep forever.

On the flip side, if the game gets reinstated into the Steam store, it will at least generate some form of income that can be used to refill the music, even if it takes away the profit - which I have no problem with.

Lastly, some of the newer players that only have played the silent version of LoF and don't know any other version, come to me saying it's a great game even as a silent game.

Do you feel up to sharing a little bit about your inspiration for Cece? Please don't feel like you have to.
-M M

When I started diving into developing Cece's character I was picking up my son at school. So as I sat in my car waiting, I saw a girl exciting the school walking down the street. A bit later she walked into a light pole because she was too busy looking at her phone. She then gave the light pole a slight kick, saw me, waved, then continued on her way.

My main point is, you pick up something here and something there without pinpointing any direct source of inspiration. That's just one of many different situations that helped create Cece (or any of the other characters in LoF). I wanted a character that was socially awkward, a bit childish in her views of life, with struggles I'd seen up close.

So, even if a real person inspired the story of Leap of Faith, there's no real-life equivalent to Cece. She is a fictional character like all the other characters in Leap of Faith. But I had a very strong vision of how I wanted Cece to be, and when I saw the model, I instantly knew "that's Cece". The only reference to real life is the main story and my daughter's favorite color was purple, which is why Cece's character's name is purple, she has purple stripes in her hair, and her eyes sometimes flash purple. The name Cece is related to my daughter's friend, who survived the jump.

Will the next game be an entirely new one with new characters or will some characters make a return?
- Michael Arias

My next story is a completely new story. I've been working on the storyline for more than a year, and I looking forward to starting it. Even though it has a 'path' that is similar to Leap of Faith, it's not Leap of Faith 2, which is both exciting and terrifying. But I think you will enjoy it still.

There has already been several references in LoF to a location that is central to the new game. Furthermore, Christine (or Sea as you might be more familiar with) will be a love interest in that one, so it's not unthinkable that there will be references to LoF characters, or you'll hear Lexi on the radio somewhere. The chance that you'll actually see the characters from LoF is not very likely (although you never know with me).

What will the next game be about, and is it going to be sci-fi, vampire, medievil? Is it a female mc, or a male mc? what "tags" will be in the game? will patrons be mentioned in this game and the next? and what tiers if so? Do we get any say in the next game? Like you pose a girl with 3 different dress or color, and we get to vote?
- Johnni Schrøder

I've decided against giving out any information about my next game other than the occasional references that already exist in LoF. I've seen comments like "I'll play anything Drifty makes, except [insert random genre/tag here]". I honestly just want to release a game that I think you'll enjoy diving into, and can enjoy for what it is. Obviously, with the already in-game references, you can exclude some genres and make some assumptions. Other than that, I'm afraid you'll just have to wait and see. :)

The game is designed slightly differently, with me wanting to give you a lot of say in character customization for the next game, and you'll get options to vote for clothing sets and in some cases scenes. At some point, I'll also launch a character customization poll where you get to decide on how one of the love interests looks - but all in due time.

Several patrons are already referenced or mentioned in LoF, among them all of the original Leap of Faith tier holders. The current Leap of Faith tier will also get a special reference in the ending scenes of their favorite character as Leap of Faith is concluded. I'm a huge fan of these references and will keep doing them for my next game.

I'm really curious to learn about how you have learnt to construct a story so well, and how you conclude that a character (probably from your personal experience) is worth putting into your game.
- HUN

Creating the characters' personalities is a lot of fun. I ask myself random questions like "what does she like, what's her biggest fear, does she have any quirks, what does she hate, what's her biggest secret... all kinds of questions. Sometimes the answer even surprises me. Then when the visuals are ready and load them into Daz, I ask the character the same questions and see them answering them. What do they answer, are they comfortable answering, do they look down, smile, feel you're intruding their private space etc. Sometimes what they "answered" also surprised me.
So if I were to ask them a random question: "What's your stance on Sex"
Kira (looks you dead in the eye): I love it.
Robin (looks at Kira): I love it.
Steph (unfazed): I didn't even think about it until I met the right guy.
Linda (smiles): If you'd just notice me, I'd show you!
Cece (looks down to the right): I don't know...
Lexi (big smile, a bit uncertain): Haven't you seen my videos? They are sexy, right? ...I think they are.
Kevin (raising one eyebrow): I'm happily married.
Chris (looks at you sideways): Dude, stop. You're acting all weird.
Things like that makes me feel that I know the characters, so when I load them into a scene I know how they will react to whatever mischief I (or they) come up with. The same goes for poses, where I use different pose packs as bases when posing the different characters throughout the story. Helps add character to the characters.

Did you already have a background in programming and/or rendering work before you decided to make this game? And if not, how hard was it to learn, particularly the rendering work? (which I assume was done with DAZ 3D/IRAY)
- Wesley

I was fumbling around in Daz Studio in the beginning when I tried to get comfortable with the controls, so the first two days were a huge struggle. This was also when I used about 6 hours posing the MC on the bed for when he woke up at the beginning of the story. Other than that, it's not a very complicated program to learn, once you get past the basics of learning your eyes what to look for.

For the programming/Renpy parts, I was lucky to have been using "classic ASP" a lot of years back, which is similar to Python - used in Renpy. I'd say anybody can learn how to use Renpy as it's easy to learn, but the programming experience I had from way back helped me design things such as the in-game phone and some other events.

But both Daz Studio and Renpy are very forgiving, and you can do a lot with a minimum amount of pre-knowledge. As with all popular programs, the first 80% is easy to learn. The last 20 takes a bit of effort.

How much time do you devote (roughly) to writing? Do you come up with the entire story before starting the programming side of the story? Or is it more of as you work though a chapter, if another idea comes up, do you change right away? Or stick to the original to see how much it would change/affect the next chapter(s)?
- Shade Ducharme

I create the whole story from beginning to end in a very rough draft. I feel this is very important, as since I know what's going to happen 4 chapters from the one I'm working on, I can foreshadow future events, or give hints or pointers. Then I start thinking about small pieces of dialogue, background art, or places that have some kind of meaning which the reader is not going to know at the time of reading it the first time.

By then I should know roughly how long I want the story to be and can start dividing it into chapters that are of equal length. I also want the chapters to have some kind of ending that reveals or foreshadows something so it's more than just another standard scene. At this point, the chapters are just very rough reference points, where I know generally what will happen, but without much details.

From this point on, it's about adding events to the chapters. Mainly, what are they going to do, what assets are needed, how much work it is to create that scene I would like, or if the scenes are even doable with the assets available. I also work on character or relationship progression and the general idea of how dialogue is going to be.

That's all I know before I start the actual work on the chapters. For the actual scenes, I load everything, look around for different things I can toy around with, camera angles, how to place the characters, if I can make something of them arriving or leaving and so forth. I make up the dialogue in my head and render the different images portraying that.

Then about 1000 renders in when making the chapters, I start the actual Renpy work where I piece everything together and dot down the final dialogue. This is by far the quickest part of making this, because I already have all the visuals. When I see the renders I've done, I remember the dialogue, and all that remains is to get it 'down on paper'.

What is with the MC commenting on her [Lexi's] hair for some of the responses?
- Skep

Lexi's hair asset is called "Cafe Curls", and it's horrible to work with. I told myself I would never ever use it, because of just that. Lexi even had Kira's hair at one point when I was making her. So when I did some tests in the bar where you meet her for the first time I put on those Cafe Curls as a test, because I had no other hair available at the time.
When I saw the test render I just knew that was Lexi and silently cursed because I knew I had to struggle with that hair for thousands of renders until the end of LoF.
So the "horrible hair" reference that's going on between the mc and Lexi is more of a dev joke that other devs who have used that hair will know so very, very well.

what does the "option missed" mean for each character at the end of the chapter?
- Skep

When seeing discussions about other VNs I often see references to "oh, you didn't see that scene?" because of something the player did or didn't do in the game. The 'options missed' are things that could potentially lead to missing (or already missed) scenes, and I'm letting you know about it.

Have you settled on a name for the next game?
- TheExoticTitan

Yes, I have. The art is even prepared. I won't reveal it just yet, but you might want to wait for the inevitable "avengers ending" at the last screen of the last chapter of LoF.

Thank you again for the diverse questions. I'll be back with the normal dev diary next Friday.
Have a nice weekend, and stay safe out there.

// Drifty
 

Sancho1969

Devoted Member
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Jan 19, 2020
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^ Thanks for posting. I'll do my best to come up with a way to add music to any future chapters that may be silent by using what's currently used in an audio algorithm to help make new selection based on the type of scene. It won't be perfect but if done subtly the dramatic effect could be exponentially gratifying. I'll kick the tires on it w/Drifty at some point I reckon.
 
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Avaron1974

Resident Lesbian
Aug 22, 2018
24,886
84,987
When I started diving into developing Cece's character I was picking up my son at school. So as I sat in my car waiting, I saw a girl exciting the school walking down the street. A bit later she walked into a light pole because she was too busy looking at her phone. She then gave the light pole a slight kick, saw me, waved, then continued on her way.

My main point is, you pick up something here and something there without pinpointing any direct source of inspiration. That's just one of many different situations that helped create Cece (or any of the other characters in LoF). I wanted a character that was socially awkward, a bit childish in her views of life, with struggles I'd seen up close.

So, even if a real person inspired the story of Leap of Faith, there's no real-life equivalent to Cece. She is a fictional character like all the other characters in Leap of Faith. But I had a very strong vision of how I wanted Cece to be, and when I saw the model, I instantly knew "that's Cece". The only reference to real life is the main story and my daughter's favorite color was purple, which is why Cece's character's name is purple, she has purple stripes in her hair, and her eyes sometimes flash purple. The name Cece is related to my daughter's friend, who survived the jump.
Hmmmmm.......

So, I think by now we all know about a certain point in the game where a certain something is eluded to which led to many of us being heartbroken for the devs loss for a long time.

So ... yeah, turns out that didn't happen.

Glad nobody died but can't help but feel slightly played.
 
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mr.AwesomeGameTaste

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2021
1,170
1,952
Hmmmmm.......

So, I think by now we all know about a certain point in the game where a certain something is eluded to which led to many of us being heartbroken for the devs loss for a long time.

So ... yeah, turns out that didn't happen.

Glad nobody died but can't help but feel slightly played.
From what I understood Drifty said CeCe's personality wasn't inspired by his daughter,but she died. And the name Cece was his daughter's friend who also jumped,but survived. His daughter died but she was nothing like Cece.
 

Arigon

Engaged Member
Aug 27, 2020
2,296
4,532
Hmmmmm.......

So, I think by now we all know about a certain point in the game where a certain something is eluded to which led to many of us being heartbroken for the devs loss for a long time.

So ... yeah, turns out that didn't happen.

Glad nobody died but can't help but feel slightly played.
No Ava,
It did. He is referring to the Cece character and some of the circumstances. He actually lost his daughter to suicide. For real. He and I chatted on Patreon about it. I was balling my eyes out about the story and sent him a message which he responded to.


  1. 4:17 PM
    I am slow on the uptake at times. I am a father of four. Grandfather of three. I can not imagine your pain. I read what you had said before, and for some reason I thought it was about you, rather than your child. I am so very sorry for your loss.

  2. OCT 23, 2021


  3. 2:24 AM
    Not to worry, I was deliberately vague on every reference to the real life occurance. The main point behind this story is this silent pandemic, not the inspiration behind it. But thank you very much for your kind words, and for supporting this. // Drifty

Peace
 

patachoucs

Member
Mar 26, 2020
409
1,504
Hmmmmm.......

So, I think by now we all know about a certain point in the game where a certain something is eluded to which led to many of us being heartbroken for the devs loss for a long time.

So ... yeah, turns out that didn't happen.

Glad nobody died but can't help but feel slightly played.
It did happen.

Drifty has talked about it. He also explained that Cece isn't his daughter. That'd be weird anyway. She's an amalgam of multiples people he knew or saw. She's her own person. But she's also a great vessel to exorcise what happened to him.

You need to read between the line. I mean, and I quote " The only reference to real life is the main story and my daughter's favorite color was purple, which is why Cece's character's name is purple, she has purple stripes in her hair, and her eyes sometimes flash purple"

Her favorite color WAS purple.
 
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Avaron1974

Resident Lesbian
Aug 22, 2018
24,886
84,987
No Ava,
It did. He is referring to the Cece character and some of the circumstances. He actually lost his daughter to suicide. For real. He and I chatted on Patreon about it. I was balling my eyes out about the story and sent him a message which he responded to.


  1. 4:17 PM
    I am slow on the uptake at times. I am a father of four. Grandfather of three. I can not imagine your pain. I read what you had said before, and for some reason I thought it was about you, rather than your child. I am so very sorry for your loss.

  2. OCT 23, 2021


  3. 2:24 AM
    Not to worry, I was deliberately vague on every reference to the real life occurance. The main point behind this story is this silent pandemic, not the inspiration behind it. But thank you very much for your kind words, and for supporting this. // Drifty

Peace
Then I sit corrected, wording sounded sus and I fully admit I don't really trust devs stories these days.

One too many boys who cried wolf has left me a bit of a cynical girl.
 
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Skylaroo

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,669
4,397
The problem isn't them wanting to be with him, it's that they want to be together but if he only wants one of them they will break up. It's not their choice, it's his.

He's entering their relationship and saying "well, I want you but I don't want you so now you break up".
This is non-sense. If for example MC wanted only Kira, the fact that Kira and Robin breaks up is not his decision. His decision is "MC only wants to be in relationship with Kira, and not Robin". Then Kira's decision is "Kira prefers to be with MC than Robin, thus Kira breaks up with Robin". If Kira wants to stay with Robin, she can, but that means she can't be in relationship with MC. But it's still Kira's decision to choose who she wants to be in relationship with. In this case, Kira chose MC over Robin.

Or I'll give an analogy. You're a lesbian, right? Imagine there's a male-female couple who invited you into a threesome, then you hang out often together and the three of you become closer and closer. However, because you're a lesbian, you only want to have relationship with the girl because you don't have any romantic feeling towards the guy so throuple is not an option. It's either they stay together, or just you with the girl. The decision is in the girl's hands whether she wants to continue with him, or to pursue new relationship with you. Her decision is to choose whoever she wants to be with more than the other.

You: I only want the Girl, I do not want the Guy -> the one with strict condition
Guy: I don't mind throuple or just Girl or just You -> the flexible one with no condition
Girl: I don't mind throuple or just Guy or just You -> the one making decision based on the other two's preference

You are the MC. You aren't the one making the decision.
 

Nurikabe

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
1,324
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This is non-sense. If for example MC wanted only Kira, the fact that Kira and Robin breaks up is not his decision. His decision is "MC only wants to be in relationship with Kira, and not Robin". Then Kira's decision is "Kira prefers to be with MC than Robin, thus Kira breaks up with Robin". If Kira wants to stay with Robin, she can, but that means she can't be in relationship with MC. But it's still Kira's decision to choose who she wants to be in relationship with. In this case, Kira chose MC over Robin.

Or I'll give an analogy. You're a lesbian, right? Imagine there's a male-female couple who invited you into a threesome, then you hang out often together and the three of you become closer and closer. However, because you're a lesbian, you only want to have relationship with the girl because you don't have any romantic feeling towards the guy so throuple is not an option. It's either they stay together, or just you with the girl. The decision is in the girl's hands whether she wants to continue with him, or to pursue new relationship with you. Her decision is to choose whoever she wants to be with more than the other.

You: I only want the Girl, I do not want the Guy -> the one with strict condition
Guy: I don't mind throuple or just Girl or just You -> the flexible one with no condition
Girl: I don't mind throuple or just Guy or just You -> the one making decision based on the other two's preference

You are the MC. You aren't the one making the decision.
If only life were that simple ;)
 

Canto Forte

Post Pro
Jul 10, 2017
20,967
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It was made simple in this game. We can be brave and do the right thing in a game.
Real life would most certainly see one or both in that couple cheat/NTR the other with the third wheel.
Sometimes opening up a relationship turns one or both partners into a third wheel for the newcummer.
 

mbs123a

Newbie
Mar 14, 2022
38
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trying to wait for the game to be on steam agian so i can support while enjoying game it is meant to be reeeee- i like to mostly play my games on steam so i can follow stats/ other peoples stats. and i use ingame overlay in steam alot.

giphy (5).gif
 

Arigon

Engaged Member
Aug 27, 2020
2,296
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Personally, I feel like Robin and Kira are a very personable couple, and I really love interacting with them in the story.
I could easily see Arigon being attracted to both of the girls, and trying to make a go of it if they were willing, but I am an old softy on the inside now as far as feelings go, so I would never ever allow myself to be the wrecking ball. I mean people can't help their feelings, but if I had a hint that I was damaging that level of a relationship, I would ask them to let me bail. I would not just do the bailing on my own, because that is a dick move that leaves unanswered questions.

If they told me that it would be ok, and I was not causing issues I would stay as long as we all believed that.

This is however, one of the choices I steer clear of in my main playthrough. I am team Lexi. I love Cece. Everyone probably loves Cece. After my interactions with Drifty though, I feel like I am so far from prepared to help and nurture the sweet soul that Cece has, and protect her and maybe assist her in repairing herself. I just don't think that I personally am strong enough to risk that kind of loss.

Lexi comes with her own issues as well of course. And her bestie... shit that is a completely other issue. I could never ever hurt Lexi enough to run down that beautiful red head's path.

I adore Linda. I think I should have a full Linda play, but never have done it. I thought it might have been possible to have a Linda Cece thruple early on, but no, that does not pan out.

Originally I hated Steph just like most who have followed this for any length of time, but she is probably the second biggest Leap of Faith after Cece. I think it is tragic and I am a sucker for that kind of shit.

Anyhow enough blathering.
Peace
 

MrPerson28475

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Game Developer
Nov 25, 2020
625
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I've tried a few times to play other paths, and failed. I played the Cece Path first and that in my book was a mistake on my part, it should be recommended at the start of the game that the Cece Path should be played last. Because I played Cece's path first I can't bring myself to play the other paths. I always end up with Cece.
 
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