VN Ren'Py Leaving DNA [Ep. 4.3a] [Impious Monk]

[John972]

This discussion is actually irrelevant to me. For me, the core of the issue was already clear much earlier in the short conversation between Trevor and Jamie: After the movie, Tevor asks Jamie: Why do you let him treat you like a sister? And she answers tearfully: I know. What you are saying is (once again) confirmation of this basic statement (question).

By the way, forget that the paths, including the Jamie path, will be easy. On all the paths I don't expect stones, but rather huge boulders on the way to the desired destination!

Well, in that case, even the conversation between Trevor and Jamie you quote is irrelevant because even earlier than that, Jamie tells Seo Jun she thinks it's time for her to grow up and move on from her childhood crush because she's realizing Rockford and her will only ever be friends. But, you rightly chose to bring it up. This is, after all, a free exchange of ideas.

All the dialogues reinforce that Rockford blew his chance and he will have a LOT of work to do to win Jamie over, if he chooses to do so. And that's the boulders you mention... However, I don't fully discount a scenario where Jamie stays in the next epi. I just don't expect it. After all, all dialogues in 3.95 episodes pointed to Solomon Hobbs being Rockford's father, and we know how that turned out.

 

[minibaer12]

All the dialogues reinforce that Rockford blew his chance and he will have a LOT of work to do to win Jamie over, if he chooses to do so.

That's probably the only point on which we both agree 1000%.

And as for the bold text: What if she decides to finally break away from Rockford and he SOMEDAY realizes that he wants Jamie as his girlfriend too?

 

[John972]

That's probably the only point on which we both agree 1000%.

And as for the bold text: What if she decides to finally break away from Rockford and he SOMEDAY realizes that he wants Jamie as his girlfriend too?

In that last scenario you mentioned, Jamie should give Rockford the Rockford treatment...

I'll add that the dialogues do offer some slight glimmers of hope.

Seo Jun flat out asks Jamie if she's over Rockford during that conversation I mentioned, and Jamie answers "I don't know".

Jamie never confided with her Trevor (up to and including the pool scene) that she is finally over Rockford. Trevor talks to Jamie like Rockford is still the love of her life, although he suspects by the pool scene that she might be ready to move on.

I kinda get the impression Jamie is something like 70/30 or 60/40 in favor of moving on, and I suspect her romantic flame for Rockford is not extinguished yet.

 

[minibaer12]

In that last scenario you mentioned, Jamie should give Rockford the Rockford treatment...

I'll add that the dialogues do offer some slight glimmers of hope.

Seo Jun flat out asks Jamie if she's over Rockford during that conversation I mentioned, and Jamie answers "I don't know".

Jamie never confided with her Trevor (up to and including the pool scene) that she is finally over Rockford. Trevor talks to Jamie like Rockford is still the love of her life, although he suspects by the pool scene that she might be ready to move on.

I kinda get the impression Jamie is something like 70/30 or 60/40 in favor of moving on, and I suspect her romantic flame for Rockford is not extinguished yet.

well, basically you gave the answers yourself:

1. You once mentioned that our dev is planning a dark story here. That means for me, I have to expect anything
2. You once mentioned that this story doesn't follow the usual logic like the other VNs. I agree with you 100% there.

So I'm afraid I'll have to take away your last glimmer of hope. I suspect that with EP5, or at the latest with EP6, the value will drop to ZERO. Seriously, I trust the dev to do ANYTHING!

 

[John972]

well, basically you gave the answers yourself:

1. You once mentioned that our dev is planning a dark story here. That means for me, I have to expect anything
2. You once mentioned that this story doesn't follow the usual logic like the other VNs. I agree with you 100% there.

So I'm afraid I'll have to take away your last glimmer of hope. I suspect that with EP5, or at the latest with EP6, the value will drop to ZERO. Seriously, I trust the dev to do ANYTHING!

Oh, I agree!

But, in trusting the dev to do ANYTHING, that really does mean anything.

Thus, I will never discount 100% the probability of certain "less-dark" things happening, even if I don't expect them. That includes Jamie not actually leaving (which seems highly improbable at this point), or a reconciliation with Rockford by the end of epi 6.

How, and if, the so-called Jamie LI path gets resolved is one of the things I look forward to, even while acknowledging it might not end well.

PS - the only LI route that doesn't seem totally f'ed up is the Aghavni one. I wonder in what manner IM will derail that relationship?

 

[Chillout1984]

Oh, I agree!

But, in trusting the dev to do ANYTHING, that really does mean anything.

Thus, I will never discount 100% the probability of certain "less-dark" things happening, even if I don't expect them. That includes Jamie not actually leaving (which seems highly improbable at this point), or a reconciliation with Rockford by the end of epi 6.

How, and if, the so-called Jamie LI path gets resolved is one of the things I look forward to, even while acknowledging it might not end well.

At this point I also wouldn't even be surprised if Jamie would be murdered before she could go Harvard by either of the two killers that are around, and that death would be put on Rockford.

 

[John972]

At this point I also wouldn't even be surprised if Jamie would be murdered before she could go Harvard by either of the two killers that are around, and that death would be put on Rockford.

Bejeezus! That would be dark, especially as an epi 5 cliffhanger. I can imagine the furore and the salvating when necrophilia gets added as a game tag here.

 

[Chillout1984]

Bejeezus! That would be dark, especially as an epi 5 cliffhanger. I can imagine the furore and the salvating when necrophilia gets added as a game tag here.

Unless I understand you wrong, I don't understand why would that be added as a game tag in that situation unless the murderer had sex with her after killing her?

 

[yossa999]

At this point I also wouldn't even be surprised if Jamie would be murdered before she could go Harvard by either of the two killers that are around, and that death would be put on Rockford.

No, I think Em is now the perfect candidate for sactifice to the killer who killed those women and whose case opened the game. Monk completely ruined her love route for sensitive players, and now to avoid accusations of fetishizing incest, he just needs to cut her throat and throw the body in a public place.

 

[Chillout1984]

No, I think Em is now the perfect candidate for sactifice to the killer who killed those women and whose case opened the game. Monk completely ruined her love route for sensitive players, and now to avoid accusations of fetishizing incest, he just needs to cut her throat and throw the body in a public place.

Nah, imo Monk shouldn't listen to those whiners and just tell the story he originally wanted to tell. Jamie (being the oldest and strongest connection emotionally in the game, besides Luis I believe his name was) would be the perfect candidate to be the next target/victim.

If Em was his original next target, that's perfectly fine, but he shouldn't change it because of people not liking the twist.

 

[John972]

Unless I understand you wrong, I don't understand why would that be added as a game tag in that situation unless the murderer had sex with her after killing her?

It's a joke taking a poke at the addition of the incest tag following the epi 4 cliffhanger, which caused much polarized debate here. If Jamie were to be murdered, necrophilia would be the only way forward on the Jamie LI route, just as incest is seemingly the only way forward on the Emmeline LI route.

 

[minibaer12]

Oh, I agree!

But, in trusting the dev to do ANYTHING, that really does mean anything.

Thus, I will never discount 100% the probability of certain "less-dark" things happening, even if I don't expect them. That includes Jamie not actually leaving (which seems highly improbable at this point), or a reconciliation with Rockford by the end of epi 6.

How, and if, the so-called Jamie LI path gets resolved is one of the things I look forward to, even while acknowledging it might not end well.

PS - the only LI route that doesn't seem totally f'ed up is the Aghavni one. I wonder in what manner IM will derail that relationship?

You know, my friend, and this is my glimmer of hope: All and really ALL VNs follow an unwritten rule: If you have collected enough points at the end of the story, you will also end up with this LI!

Since I play with a mod, I am mercilessly collecting all the green answers to her that I can get.

On the way there, I will probably curse the dev a few times.

[Shit, i've forgot Accting Lesson, there was not so!]

 

[John972]

No, I think Em is now the perfect candidate for sactifice to the killer who killed those women and whose case opened the game. Monk completely ruined her love route for sensitive players, and now to avoid accusations of fetishizing incest, he just needs to cut her throat and throw the body in a public place.

Nah, imo Monk shouldn't listen to those whiners and just tell the story he originally wanted to tell. Jamie (being the oldest and strongest connection emotionally in the game, besides Luis I believe his name was) would be the perfect candidate to be the next target/victim.

If Em was his original next target, that's perfectly fine, but he shouldn't change it because of people not liking the twist.

Ya know, there has to be a purpose why IM introduced us to creepy Sara and that fricking annoying bleach-blonde dude at the bar in epi 1, right? Sacrificial lambs for the assassins maybe?

 

[Chillout1984]

It's a joke taking a poke at the addition of the incest tag following the epi 4 cliffhanger, which caused much polarized debate here. If Jamie were to be murdered, necrophilia would be the only way forward on the Jamie LI route, just as incest is seemingly the only way forward on the Emmeline LI route.

True. Also, Aghavni could still be the next target, but that might be because of outdated information or just simply because she is investigating the case. We still saw her file next to Rockford's on one of the murderer's tables.

You know, my friend, and this is my glimmer of hope: All and really ALL VNs follow an unwritten rule: If you have collected enough points at the end of the story, you will also end up with this LI!

Since I play with a mod, I am mercilessly collecting all the green answers to her that I can get.

On the way there, I will probably curse the dev a few times.

Maybe if you're on a solo route, but not always if you're on a multiple LI/harem path. Melody is a good example where this could lead to an early ending, and almost everyone who's been around long enough knows about "The Choice" in AL.

 

[yossa999]

Ya know, there has to be a purpose why IM introduced us to creepy Sara and that fricking annoying bleach-blonde dude at the bar in epi 1, right? Sacrificial lambs for the assassins maybe?

But why would assassins go for them? In my opinion, they are there to shake the moral compass of Rockford, and to give a reason to punish him for not choosing Colleen.
Although, it doesn't look like Monk needs any particular reason to punish Rockford (targeting the player, of course)

 

[John972]

You know, my friend, and this is my glimmer of hope: All and really ALL VNs follow an unwritten rule: If you have collected enough points at the end of the story, you will also end up with this LI!

Since I play with a mod, I am mercilessly collecting all the green answers to her that I can get.

On the way there, I will probably curse the dev a few times.

[Shit, i've forgot Accting Lesson, there was not so!]

Alas, you do know [especially given AL] that it's possible that all those green points you collect for Jamie along the way will affect but a single dialogue exchange at the end of epi 8, when Rockford runs into Jamie on the street...

Low green points, Jamie friendzoned:
Rockford: "Hey, how are you little sis?" Jamie [pushing a baby stroller]: "Oh, hi, Rockford. How are you? By the way, I'd like you to meet Armin Jr..."

High Green points, Jamie LI path:
Rockford [on his knees]: " Jamie, please reconsider!" Jamie: " Pshaw! I've told you before Rockford, you had your chance in episode 1."

 

[Chillout1984]

Alas, you do know [especially given AL] that it's possible that all those green points you collect for Jamie along the way will affect but a single dialogue exchange at the end of epi 8, when Rockford runs into Jamie on the street...

Low green points, Jamie friendzoned:
Rockford: "Hey, how are you little sis?" Jamie [pushing a baby stroller]: "Oh, hi, Rockford. How are you? By the way, I'd like you to meet Armin Jr..."

High Green points, Jamie LI path:
Rockford [on his knees]: " Jamie, please reconsider!" Jamie: " Pshaw! I've told you before Rockford, you had your change in episode 1."

And in both cases Jamie will be beaten to death after Rockford has left

 

[John972]

But why would assassins go for them? In my opinion, they are there to shake the moral compass of Rockford, and to give a reason to punish him for not choosing Colleen.
Although, it doesn't look like Monk needs any particular reason to punish Rockford (targeting the player, of course)

It was a joke implying that annoying NPCs are ripe candidates for elimination.

I do agree it's possible E could become a target of Hobbs in certain circumstances.

 

[minibaer12]

Maybe if you're on a solo route, but not always if you're on a multiple LI/harem path. Melody is a good example where this could lead to an early ending, and almost everyone who's been around long enough knows about "The Choice" in AL.

this "The Choice" in AL is the reason why I immediately ignored this dev.

Of course I only talked about the solo routes.

Alas, you do know [especially given AL] that it's possible that all those green points you collect for Jamie along the way will affect but a single dialogue exchange at the end of epi 8, when Rockford runs into Jamie on the street...

Low green points, Jamie friendzoned:
Rockford: "Hey, how are you little sis?" Jamie [pushing a baby stroller]: "Oh, hi, Rockford. How are you? By the way, I'd like you to meet Armin Jr..."

High Green points, Jamie LI path:
Rockford [on his knees]: " Jamie, please reconsider!" Jamie: " Pshaw! I've told you before Rockford, you had your chance in episode 1."

you really don't want to know what I want to write to you now, but don't....

 

[John972]

you really don't want to know what I want to write to you now, but don't....

well, that scenario I presented is my worst nightmare as well...

...and here we are only talking about LI routes. Let's not get into how Rockford can be set up for what seems like a really dark path.